Straight Dope Message Board

[Paul in Qatar]

I am sick to my heart. We have handed our allies over to the Turks. There will be a bloodbath.


They were fools to trust us.


-=Link=- 1

[Walken After Midnight]

Republicans have been criticizing Trump's decision - even Lindsey Graham.

Lindsey Graham:

Originally Posted by Lindsey Graham

I don’t know all the details regarding President Trump’s decision in northern Syria. In process of setting up phone call with Secretary Pompeo.

If press reports are accurate this is a disaster in the making.
...
* Ensures ISIS comeback.
* Forces Kurds to align with Assad and Iran.
* Destroys Turkey’s relationship with U.S. Congress.
* Will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds.
...
Also, if this plan goes forward will introduce Senate resolution opposing and asking for reversal of this decision. Expect it will receive strong bipartisan support.
...
The most probable outcome of this impulsive decision is to ensure Iran’s domination of Syria.

The U.S. now has no leverage and Syria will eventually become a nightmare for Israel.
...
I feel very bad for the Americans and allies who have sacrificed to destroy the ISIS Caliphate because this decision virtually reassures the reemergence of ISIS. So sad. So dangerous.

President Trump may be tired of fighting radical Islam. They are NOT tired of fighting us.
...
Finally, this decision makes it difficult for the U.S. to recruit allies against radical Islam.
...
By abandoning the Kurds we have sent the most dangerous signal possible – America is an unreliable ally and it’s just a matter of time before China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea act out in dangerous ways.

Nikki Haley:

Originally Posted by Nikki Haley

We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend

Sen. Mitt Romney:

Originally Posted by Sen. Mitt Romney

The President’s decision to abandon our Kurd allies in the face of an assault by Turkey is a betrayal. It says that America is an unreliable ally; it facilitates ISIS resurgence; and it presages another humanitarian disaster.

2

[jasg]

Russia - a win for their client state, Syria
Iran - a win, eliminating a threat on their border
Turkey - a win, removing the possibility of more support for Turkish Kurds
Isis - a win, probably leading to release/escape of captive fighters

United States - world humiliation and distrust 3

[Snowcarpet]

Again.
Short-sighted and cruel, but what can we expect?
Argh. 4

[bobot]

Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight

Republicans have been criticizing Trump's decision - even Lindsey Graham.

Lindsey Graham:
Nikki Haley:

Sen. Mitt Romney:

Uh oh, I hope they're prepared. Trump is going to tweet on his phone insulting nicknames for all of them. 5

[Walken After Midnight]

Britain and France, both of whom have military forces in Syria, had no idea Trump had green-lighted Erdogan's invasion. 6

[Tatterdemalion]

I find myself of 2 minds on this one.

1) Yes, we have betrayed the Kurds. He also said the Kurds,have been paid “massive amounts of money and equipment” by the U.S. That is a truly despicable statement.

2) Trump said, “It is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home.” Arguably, he is not wrong about this.

It seems to me that once again Trump is doing something that is at least arguably good in the worst possible way and for the worst possible reasons. And in a way that is guaranteed to cause the most amount of harm to others. 7

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar

I am sick to my heart. We have handed our allies over to the Turks. There will be a bloodbath.


They were fools to trust us.


-=Link=-

They were fools to trust us again. 8

[aceplace57]

It's only a matter of time and 10,000 ISIS fighters will "escape". I seriously doubt Turkey will keep them secured.

It is deeply troubling to see the US turn our backs on an ally. The Kurds have been very reliable and deserve better than this betrayal.

I see many Rep Senators are already speaking out. I hope they will get this terrible decision reversed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...te-house-says/

The White House statement Sunday said Turkey would take custody of foreign fighters captured in the U.S.-led campaign against ISIS who have been held by the Kurdish forces supported by the U.S.

The prisoners include about 2,500 highly dangerous foreign fighters from Europe and elsewhere whose native countries have been reluctant to take them back, and another 10,000 or so captured fighters from Syria and Iraq.

9

[Nawth Chucka]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

They were fools to trust us again.

Again, again. This is at least the 3rd time in less than 30 years. At this point, the only reliable thing about us asking for their help is the end result being that we hang them out to dry in return. 10

[HurricaneDitka]

The instances in which we have not betrayed the Kurds have been few and far between, and fleeting, and both preceded and succeeded by disappointing betrayals.

I won't be surprised if Turkey uses the detainees as sort of reverse-hostages: "Europe, give us ________, or else we'll send your foreign fighters back". 11

[jasg]

Anyone feel better after Trump's latest Tweets?

As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over...

....the captured ISIS fighters and families. The U.S. has done far more than anyone could have ever expected, including the capture of 100% of the ISIS Caliphate. It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory. THE USA IS GREAT!

I guess his "great and unmatched wisdom" makes it all better now 12

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by jasg

Russia - a win for their client state, Syria
Iran - a win, eliminating a threat on their border
Turkey - a win, removing the possibility of more support for Turkish Kurds
Isis - a win, probably leading to release/escape of captive fighters

United States - world humiliation and distrust

Sure, but Hillary Clinton had a private email server. Thumbs up, Trump voters! 13

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by jasg

Anyone feel better after Trump's latest Tweets?



I guess his "great and unmatched wisdom" makes it all better now

Is there no beginning to his "great and unmatched wisdom"? 14

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Sure, but Hillary Clinton had a private email server. Thumbs up, Trump voters!

How will they ever heal if you keep bringing up that painful memory for them? 15

[Grey]

I, for one, am looking forward to the mass uptick in Kurdish terrorism in Turkey following this particular stupidity. 16

[bobot]

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). ..."
Yup. Ol' boy's got it together, don't he? 17

[glee]

Originally Posted by jasg

Russia - a win for their client state, Syria
Iran - a win, eliminating a threat on their border
Turkey - a win, removing the possibility of more support for Turkish Kurds
Isis - a win, probably leading to release/escape of captive fighters

United States - world humiliation and distrust

Agreed.

And add:

Kurds - a disastrous loss
European allies of USA - you absolutely can't trust the current US President 18

[Sunny Daze]

Originally Posted by jasg

Anyone feel better after Trump's latest Tweets?



I guess his "great and unmatched wisdom" makes it all better now

I went and double-checked this on Twitter, because I can't tell the difference between parody and Trump anymore. He sounds like he's playing the Wizard. Not for the first time, I question his fitness for office. 19

[HurricaneDitka]

Originally Posted by Grey

I, for one, am looking forward to the mass uptick in Kurdish terrorism in Turkey following this particular stupidity.

It'll be interesting to see Leopards and M60s burning on the side of Syrian roads rather than the regular T-XX trash. 20

[Grey]

The fun will start when idiots begin threatening to eject Turkey from NATO. You then wind up with Russia spinning up weapons sales to a country choked full of American tech and further encircling Ukraine. Should be a thrill a minute. 21

[AK84]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

They were fools to trust us again.

It’s fucking awesome to fight “just wars”. As long as someone else’s house is destroyed and someone else’s son dies.
22

[robby]

Originally Posted by jasg

Anyone feel better after Trump's latest Tweets?

Originally Posted by Sunny Daze

I went and double-checked this on Twitter, because I can't tell the difference between parody and Trump anymore. He sounds like he's playing the Wizard. Not for the first time, I question his fitness for office.

Ditto. I can't believe that any sane person would refer to their "great and unmatched wisdom." And then he goes on to threaten to "destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!)"?

On a daily basis, Trump seems to try to break his old record for lunacy. He sounds more and more deranged as time goes by. 23

[AK84]

Deciding to stop fighting endless wars is “deranged”.?
Of course considering it’s Trump, its not brilliance it’s it’s more a case of the the child who said the Emperor has no clothes.

It’s darkly hilarious. Pro War progressives and an far right peace party. 24

[MikeF]

What? Trump screws someone once he's gotten what he wanted? Do tell. Has Turkey started an investigation or something? 25

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by AK84

Deciding to stop fighting endless wars is “deranged”.?
Of course considering it’s Trump, its not brilliance it’s it’s more a case of the the child who said the Emperor has no clothes.

It’s darkly hilarious. Pro War progressives and an far right peace party.

"I thank God I wore my corset, because I think my sides have split."

-- E. Blackadder 26

[Walken After Midnight]

Sens. Romney and Murphy:

"Barring a reversal of this decision, the Admin must come before the Senate Foreign Relations Cmte. and explain to the American people how betraying an ally and ceding influence to terrorists and adversaries is not disastrous for our national security."

27

[Walken After Midnight]

Pelosi and McConnell can agree on one thing:

Minutes apart, Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader McConnell call on Trump to reverse on Syria

Pelosi: "Decision... sends a dangerous message to Iran and Russia"

McConnell: “A precipitous withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime"

28

[Walken After Midnight]

(Current) Secretary of Defense Mark Esper:
‏

DOD does not endorse a Turkish operation in Northern Syria. We will work w/our @NATO allies & Coalition partners to reiterate to Turkey the possible destabilizing consequences of potential actions to Turkey, the region, & beyond. Full statement here:

29

[Mundane Super Hero]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Is there no beginning to his "great and unmatched wisdom"?

The story is more fun if you start from when Dorothy's house lands on The Wicked Witch of The East... and not when she, The Tin Man, The Scare Crow, and The Cowardly Lion go to visit Trump. 30

[robby]

Originally Posted by AK84

Deciding to stop fighting endless wars is “deranged”.?

No...a president of the United States referring to his own supposed "great and unmatched wisdom" and threatening to "destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!)" is deranged. 31

[Walken After Midnight]

Trump whisperer Lindsey Graham appears to be trying to change Trump's mind in the most effective way possible:

Originally Posted by Lindsey Graham

No matter what President Trump is saying about his decision, it is EXACTLY what President Obama did in Iraq with even more disastrous consequences for our national security.

Unlike President Obama, I hope President Trump will reassess and take sound military advice.

32

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Mundane Super Hero

The story is more fun if you start from when Dorothy's house lands on The Wicked Witch of The East... and not when she, The Tin Man, The Scare Crow, and The Cowardly Lion go to visit Trump.

"I need a brain!"

"I need a heart!"

"I need courage!"

"Gentlemen, you are shit out of luck." 33

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight

(Current) Secretary of Defense Mark Esper:
‏

Cornfielded? 34

[Walken After Midnight]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Cornfielded?

Yep. It didn't sound like the Secretary of Defense/Department of Defense were on the same page as the Commander-in-Chief, so it looks like the statement's been pulled. 35

[Ulf the Unwashed]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Is there no beginning to his "great and unmatched wisdom"?

Love it! 36

[HurricaneDitka]

Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight

Yep. It didn't sound like the Secretary of Defense/Department of Defense were on the same page as the Commander-in-Chief, so it looks like the statement's been pulled.

The DoD's job is to follow the President's (legal) orders. 37

[Walken After Midnight]

Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka

The DoD's job is to follow the President's (legal) orders.

Exactly. It's an indicator of just how extraordinary and ill-advised Trump's decision was that such a statement was made. 38

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight

Trump whisperer Lindsey Graham appears to be trying to change Trump's mind in the most effective way possible:

JFC. They've had to resort to using reverse psychology on the orange fucking moron. Without the slightest attempt to even hide the fact that they are treating him like 12 year old brat. 39

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

They were fools to trust us again.

Agreed. This is like the third or fourth time we've betrayed them. 40

[Nawth Chucka]

The airstrikes have begun.
https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status...luck-Kurdistan 41

[aceplace57]

This betrayal may be the final straw for Rep Senators. Trump will be in serious jeopardy if he loses their support in the Senate. 42

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

This betrayal may be the final straw for Rep Senators. Trump will be in serious jeopardy if he loses their support in the Senate.

The spineless cowards would not abandon him if they found Trump in bed with their wives. Half All of them would use it to appeal to the Trump base in the next campaign. 43

[Hari Seldon]

"Trump never met a dictator he didn't love." My wife's reaction to the news. Don't worry, the Republican senators will fine a way to reconcile themselves to this too. They are terminally shameless. 44

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight

Yep. It didn't sound like the Secretary of Defense/Department of Defense were on the same page as the Commander-in-Chief, so it looks like the statement's been pulled.

Interestingly, the post is still on the DoD Twitter page as coming from a Jonathan Raff Hoffman (Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs) which links to a similar statement on defense.gov. 45

[puzzlegal]

Originally Posted by Nawth Chucka

The airstrikes have begun.
https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status...luck-Kurdistan

46

[Walken After Midnight]

Eli Stokols, LA Times:

Trump just now both minimized the number of US forces being withdrawn from Syria as "only...50 soldiers" while arguing that the move is essential so our military isn't "bogged down," as he claimed China and Russia want.
...
Trump also said he was elected to bring U.S. troops home: "People are extremely thrilled because it's time to bring our people home."

At he was speaking, an SAO told reporters on a call that the 50-100 troops in Syria were being moved away from the border but not coming home.
...
According to the senior admin. official who just briefed reporters, 50-100 special ops forces are being moved from the border to "more secure areas" in Syria. Trump said he was elected to "bring them home" but it doesn't seem these forces are leaving.

47

[JohnT]

I agree with AK84's, and others, assessment that the most depressing part of this administration is that Trump’s willingness to dial down America’s military interventions is routinely met with more bipartisan criticism than his violation of constitutional norms or the rule of law.

Now he is completely dialing this down the wrong way, I agree, but it's still telling that the only thing which gets him in trouble with Republicans is his foreign policy gaffes. 48

[Defensive Indifference]

Originally Posted by JohnT

I agree with AK84's, and others, assessment that the most depressing part of this administration is that Trump’s willingness to dial down America’s military interventions is routinely met with more bipartisan criticism than his violation of constitutional norms or the rule of law.

Now he is completely dialing this down the wrong way, I agree, but it's still telling that the only thing which gets him in trouble with Republicans is his foreign policy gaffes.

Of course. They're in favor of his domestic agenda, such as it is. Anti immigrant, anti science, anti equality. This is what the Republicans are. They're happy to put up with him as long as they get their tax cuts and judges and get to shit on the poor. 49

[Ludovic]

What mean "we"? 50