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Old 10-15-2019, 05:28 PM
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"A British family on vacation accidentally drove into the U.S..."


"... They’ve spent days detained with their 3-month-old baby."

I guess we're gonna need a wall up there, too...
Quote:
...Originally from the United Kingdom, the two couples and their three young children were driving near the U.S.-Canada border on Oct. 3 during a visit to Vancouver when an animal ventured into the road, forcing them to make an unexpected detour. But before the family could get very far, flashing lights from a police car appeared in their rearview mirror. The officer that pulled them over was American — they had accidentally crossed the border.

The vacationing family says this was the moment their trip turned into “the scariest experience of our lives,” according to a complaint filed Friday to the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security. Instead of being allowed to return to Canada or the U.K., Eileen Connors alleges that her entire family, including her 3-month-old son, ended up detained at the Berks Family Residential Center in Leesport, Pa., where they have spent more than a week living in “frigid” and “filthy” conditions. As of late Monday, Bridget Cambria, the Connorses’ lawyer, told The Washington Post that the British family was still at the center waiting to be deported.
...

Even before the tourists could explain why they were on the road, Connors, 24, wrote that her 30-year-old husband David and his cousin, who was driving at the time, were arrested.

“You crossed an international border,” said the officer, who allegedly did not read the men their rights and ignored the family’s pleas that they had unknowingly crossed into the United States and never intended to enter the country during their trip, despite having the proper visas. The complaint did not specify exactly where the incident took place.

The family asked if they could “simply turn around” and were denied, Connors wrote.
...

In the morning, immigration officers told the Connorses that they could be released if they provided contact information for any family member living in the United States who could sponsor them, the statement said. Luckily, a relative with U.S. citizenship agreed to help.

“We were ready for all of this to end,” Connors wrote.

But hours later, the Connorses were informed that they wouldn’t be leaving. There was “a change in plans,” and soon after, they were loaded into a van in what “felt like an abduction or kidnapping,” according to the statement.

David Connors was dropped off at the Tacoma Northwest Detention Center, while Eileen Connors and her baby were taken to a Red Roof Inn in Seattle to spend the night.

They were reunited the next morning at a promising location: the Seattle airport.

“I thought, finally we’re going home and felt relieved, even though the officers would not tell me where we were going or why,” Eileen Connors wrote.
...
It gets worse.
Quote:
But her relief was short-lived.

When the Connorses got off their flight, they were in Pennsylvania. Their destination was the Berks Family Residential Center, a facility advocates have decried as “baby jail,” according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.
...

Beyond the alleged living conditions, the Connorses also claim that they were not given an opportunity to call their embassy, instead relying on family members to reach out on their behalf. In the statement, Eileen Connors wrote that she only learned that the embassy had tried to contact her and her family while they were detained on Oct. 7, accusing the center’s staff of not passing along the message until it was too late in the day to call back.
...

On Monday, Cambria told The Post that the Connorses were “hopeful they’re leaving as soon as” Tuesday.
....
Words fail me.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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When I read the popup before opening the post I thought the punchline was going to be that they actually drove into Iran.
How naive of me.
And ICE agents wonder why people hate them.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
When I read the popup before opening the post I thought the punchline was going to be that they actually drove into Iran.
How naive of me.
And ICE agents wonder why people hate them.
Nope, that "drove into the US told me it was a Canada story". There's lots os spots along the "undefended border" where this is possible if you're not careful.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:54 PM
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So American border control one time did the right thing and didn't discriminate against brown skin, wrongly bearded or dressed folk or the wrong kind of passport? What you're all complaining about? (Yeah, I'm cynical tonight...)
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsHund View Post
So American border control one time did the right thing and didn't discriminate against brown skin, wrongly bearded or dressed folk or the wrong kind of passport? What you're all complaining about? (Yeah, I'm cynical tonight...)
And they weren't perceived as "a threat" and shot. Really, people just keep moving the goalposts on what we can reasonably expect from law enforcement.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
And they weren't perceived as "a threat" and shot. Really, people just keep moving the goalposts on what we can reasonably expect from law enforcement.
I guess they're lucky ICE didn't shoot them in the legs.
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Old 10-16-2019, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsHund View Post
So American border control one time did the right thing and didn't discriminate against brown skin, wrongly bearded or dressed folk or the wrong kind of passport? What you're all complaining about? (Yeah, I'm cynical tonight...)
They aren't supposed to do that to these kind of people.

Two weeks seems long. A few hours or even a day to verify the claim.......yeah its lousy to be in that situation but at least its reasonable.
And the British mission heads in each country might have done a better job, just take them back to the UK from whereeve the hell they are being held, if Canada won't take them back.

Last edited by AK84; 10-16-2019 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:32 PM
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Nope, that "drove into the US told me it was a Canada story". There's lots os spots along the "undefended border" where this is possible if you're not careful.
For reference, this is 0 Avenue on the Canadian side of the border by the International Peace Park in Blaine, Washington. The road is on the Canadian side. The park, complete with children playing on the swing set, is on the US side. The actual border is the small ditch alongside the road -- you can see one of the border markers protected by the yellow concrete bumper.

Now, my impression is that residents of both countries are free to wander the park, and only have to pass the appropriate customs and immigration if they exit the park. But I could be wrong.

0 Ave extends quite a bit further east along the border, beyond the park. Possibly they accidentally crossed there?

Edit: Here's 0 Ave near the Lynden border crossing (apparently the area referenced in the OP article). The border runs along the small ditch between the two roads.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:15 AM
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Edit: Here's 0 Ave near the Lynden border crossing (apparently the area referenced in the OP article). The border runs along the small ditch between the two roads.
Only a small ditch? Not a beautiful wall with gator-infested moats, venomous vipers, and armed tortoises? Well no wonder! Even a Texan could sneak across there.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:56 AM
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There are a few more details to this story, at least according to the CBC, that I didn't see mentioned here.

One fact is that two of the adults in this group had previously been denied entry to the US, presumably for good reason.

The other is that US immigration authorities first wanted to just send them back to Canada, but they were denied entry back to Canada by Canadian immigration.

So, while it's true that US immigration can be very heavy-handed at times, this bunch seems like a very suspicious lot, and it sounds like after they're deported they will no longer be welcome in either Canada OR the US again.
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:03 PM
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What kind of animal could wander onto the road and stay there long enough to force a detour? What animal is so big and so hostile to cars that you can't drive around it?
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:11 PM
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What kind of animal could wander onto the road and stay there long enough to force a detour? What animal is so big and so hostile to cars that you can't drive around it?
It being Canada, I'd guess Moose.



My mother grew up in Buffalo NY, and she used to tell a story of a friend who visited from Scotland.

The friend got up early one morning, and went for a walk. He wasn't from the area, and he didn't pay much attention to where he was going, until he was stopped by customs on the Canada side of the Peace Bridge. Turned around, went back to the other side of the bridge, and was now not allowed back into the US.

Suffice to say, there were a few hours of confusion in getting him his passport and allowing him to re-enter the US. They look back on that now and laugh.

That is a reasonable way of handling the situation.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 10-15-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Alpha Twit View Post
What kind of animal could wander onto the road and stay there long enough to force a detour? What animal is so big and so hostile to cars that you can't drive around it?
From the New York Times:
Quote:
...U.S. officials assert the family of Eileen and David Connors crossed the border on purpose, noting their vehicle was observed "slowly and deliberately" driving through a ditch to cross into U.S. territory in Blaine, Washington, on Oct. 2. ....
They didn't make a "detour" as in "took another route." They drove into a ditch to avoid whatever it was. Maybe a moose or a bear. By driving into the ditch, they crossed the border. As for the criminal implications of driving "slowly and deliberately," I would also drive slowly through a ditch at night in unfamiliar territory, especially if there were a large animal nearby. Does that help?

The ICE people scored big on what they thought was going to be a dull night, amirite?

These people have been held for TWO WEEKS. I mean, WTF?
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Last edited by ThelmaLou; 10-15-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:29 PM
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From the NPR story:
Quote:
...
As British citizens, the family was entitled to visit the U.S. without a visa.

"They could just come to the United States with a passport," said attorney Bridget Cambria, who worked on the civil rights complaint that has been filed on behalf of the family with the Department of Homeland Security. "The reason it sounds silly is because it is silly."

Instead, Eileen and her husband, David, 30, are locked into an immigration process with few safeguards. People in federal immigration custody are not entitled to legal counsel and even the wrongful arrest of U.S. citizens can take weeks to sort out, as they struggle to prove their identities while in detention.
....
My bold.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:15 PM
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Two weeks? I read the cop in Fort Worth that killed an innocent woman in her home got out on bail after 4 hours!
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:18 PM
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the article said they had the proper visas. Do people from the UK need a visa to go to Canada? where is the British Consulate in all of this?

The article could do with a bit more information.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
the article said they had the proper visas. Do people from the UK need a visa to go to Canada? where is the British Consulate in all of this?

The article could do with a bit more information.
From the WaPo article:
Quote:
...the Connorses also claim that they were not given an opportunity to call their embassy...
From the NPR story:
Quote:
... People in federal immigration custody are not entitled to legal counsel ...
From https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...y-requirements
Quote:
...British Citizens don’t usually need a visa to visit Canada for short periods, but you’ll need to get an Electronic Travel Authorisation before you travel (see below)...
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:47 PM
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thanks for the post Thelma.lou. I would make a correction after reading further. They are not entitled to government paid legal counsel. Which is of course a problem if you have no funds. In this case they should have had access to an attorney at their expense and by extension, access to their consulate.

Still a ridiculous runaround. I hope this grows legs.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:36 PM
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Yes, because in the US, individuals charged with criminal offences have more due process rights than individuals in the immigration system, which is allegedly "civil" in nature under federal law.
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:53 AM
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Dammit wolfpup, your inconvenient facts are harshing the mellow of our recreational outrage.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
There are a few more details to this story, at least according to the CBC, that I didn't see mentioned here.

One fact is that two of the adults in this group had previously been denied entry to the US, presumably for good reason.

The other is that US immigration authorities first wanted to just send them back to Canada, but they were denied entry back to Canada by Canadian immigration.

So, while it's true that US immigration can be very heavy-handed at times, this bunch seems like a very suspicious lot, and it sounds like after they're deported they will no longer be welcome in either Canada OR the US again.
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Dammit wolfpup, your inconvenient facts are harshing the mellow of our recreational outrage.
"Recreational outrage"? Maybe cut back on the cynic pills, eh?

The background is certainly helpful and relevant, but the whole thing was dealt with in a heavy-handed way. Not something for ICE to be proud of. Oh wait...
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:32 AM
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The background is certainly helpful and relevant, but the whole thing was dealt with in a heavy-handed way. Not something for ICE to be proud of.
I was kidding, but seriously it's a bit more significant than that. If accurate, these facts undermine the initial basis for being outraged at ICE in the first place.

(a) This suggests that they actually were deliberately trying to sneak into the U.S., and that the "avoiding an animal" story was fabricated.

(b) ICE did try to do the reasonable thing and just return them to Canada.

It's certainly reasonable to detain them under those circumstances. Conditions at ICE detention facilities and the length of the delay are another matter, but I don't feel inclined to take this couple's word for anything at this point.

Last edited by Riemann; 10-16-2019 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:02 PM
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I was kidding, but seriously it's a bit more significant than that. If accurate, these facts undermine the initial basis for being outraged at ICE in the first place.

(a) This suggests that they actually were deliberately trying to sneak into the U.S., and that the "avoiding an animal" story was fabricated.

(b) ICE did try to do the reasonable thing and just return them to Canada.

It's certainly reasonable to detain them under those circumstances. Conditions at ICE detention facilities and the length of the delay are another matter, but I don't feel inclined to take this couple's word for anything at this point.
As well, they were driving further into the states, instead of turning around and re entering Canada. To top it off, they were carrying 16 k in cash, which you normally have to declare at a normal crossing.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:14 AM
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Or that contraband was found in the car. Plenty of things to speculate about that may not be known.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:48 AM
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Or that contraband was found in the car. Plenty of things to speculate about that may not be known.
Oh no, not the Canadian hand sanitizer again!
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:15 AM
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I haven't been keeping up recently but I thought current immigration enforcement procedures required the parents who crossed the boarder illegally to be separated from their kid. Was there no room for a British baby in the juvenile concentration camps?
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:25 AM
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I haven't been keeping up recently but I thought current immigration enforcement procedures required the parents who crossed the boarder illegally to be separated from their kid. Was there no room for a British baby in the juvenile concentration camps?
You've obviously not been keeping up, since the Executive Order ending that policy was signed over a year ago. https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...ly-separation/

But, by all means, don't let that stop you from getting a nice political jab in, and a chance to talk about "concentration camps".
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:38 AM
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They had $16,000 in cash. Assuming that is USD and not Canadian, I think it says a lot. Why would Canadian tourists from the UK be carrying $16,000 in US currency?
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:45 AM
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Eh, neither my sister or her husband can legally get into Canada (they both have drunk driving arrests) and we spent a week on Rainy Lake crossing back and forth over the border. And I don't know anyone who is a regular Boundary Waters camper who hasn't spent a night on the wrong side of the border when the wind kicks up and it isn't safe to cross back to the U.S. side.

(Up there park rangers tell you to keep to the U.S. side of the lakes for camping, but sometimes that isn't safe - and everyone has been chill about "you are in a canoe, don't put your life in danger trying to get to your own side).

The first time I was in Canada I crossed in near Warroad on a stretch of "road" simply to say I'd been in Canada. There are kids who go to school in Warroad that have to go through Canada on their bus every day.

Its in our best interests to keep that border "ajar" OK, its in the best interests of my friends who don't want to have to canoe a mile across a lake against the wind in a storm.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:55 AM
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Eh, neither my sister or her husband can legally get into Canada (they both have drunk driving arrests) ...
How does that work exactly? Have they tried every tried to cross? Does Canada do a background check on every person crossing the boarder? That doesn't seem plausible. Hell, I know someone who has a DUI, and was stopped at the Canadian border for almost an hour while they conducted a routine search of his large trailer. They had plenty of time to find out if that person had a DUI, but there was never an issue. He entered without incident. I always hear that people with DUIs can't enter Canada, but I've known plenty who have.
Has your sister or husband actually ever been turned away? Or do they just not try?
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:54 PM
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How does that work exactly? Have they tried every tried to cross? Does Canada do a background check on every person crossing the boarder? That doesn't seem plausible. Hell, I know someone who has a DUI, and was stopped at the Canadian border for almost an hour while they conducted a routine search of his large trailer. They had plenty of time to find out if that person had a DUI, but there was never an issue. He entered without incident. I always hear that people with DUIs can't enter Canada, but I've known plenty who have.
Has your sister or husband actually ever been turned away? Or do they just not try?
Apparently since 2016 Canada scans every US citizen's passport and border agents have access to the FBI database. Prior to that , they didn't scan every passport*- and also the Canadian rules have changed in the past few years - so if the people you know crossed pre -2016, it was a different situation.




* Although my guess is they always checked flight and cruise ship manifests.

Last edited by doreen; 10-16-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:56 PM
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How does that work exactly? Have they tried every tried to cross? Does Canada do a background check on every person crossing the boarder? That doesn't seem plausible. Hell, I know someone who has a DUI, and was stopped at the Canadian border for almost an hour while they conducted a routine search of his large trailer. They had plenty of time to find out if that person had a DUI, but there was never an issue. He entered without incident. I always hear that people with DUIs can't enter Canada, but I've known plenty who have.
Has your sister or husband actually ever been turned away? Or do they just not try?
Apparently since 2016 Canada scans every US citizen's passport and border agents have access to the FBI database. Prior to that , they didn't scan every passport*- and also the Canadian rules have changed in the past few years - so if the people you know crossed pre -2016, it was a different situation.




* Although my guess is they always did so for flight and cruise ship manifests. I know a number of people on my Alaskan cruise had to stay on board in Victoria.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno View Post
How does that work exactly? Have they tried every tried to cross? Does Canada do a background check on every person crossing the boarder? That doesn't seem plausible. Hell, I know someone who has a DUI, and was stopped at the Canadian border for almost an hour while they conducted a routine search of his large trailer. They had plenty of time to find out if that person had a DUI, but there was never an issue. He entered without incident. I always hear that people with DUIs can't enter Canada, but I've known plenty who have.
Has your sister or husband actually ever been turned away? Or do they just not try?
A friend of mine was invited by a Canadian music association to come to Canada to recieve an award of some sort. After landing in Canada he was told that his old cannabis possession arrest meant he wasn't allowed in Canada. He flew home and hasn't had a kind word to say about Canada ever since.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:53 PM
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A friend of mine was invited by a Canadian music association to come to Canada to recieve an award of some sort. After landing in Canada he was told that his old cannabis possession arrest meant he wasn't allowed in Canada. He flew home and hasn't had a kind word to say about Canada ever since.
Wait, your friend hates Canada now because it has exactly the same rules about inadmissability for a criminal conviction as his own country?
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:57 PM
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Wait, your friend hates Canada now because it has exactly the same rules about inadmissability for a criminal conviction as his own country?
He hates Canadia because someone in a position in the government extended an invitation to him without doing due diligence to see if that invitation could be used.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:25 AM
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How does that work exactly? Have they tried every tried to cross? Does Canada do a background check on every person crossing the boarder? That doesn't seem plausible. Hell, I know someone who has a DUI, and was stopped at the Canadian border for almost an hour while they conducted a routine search of his large trailer. They had plenty of time to find out if that person had a DUI, but there was never an issue. He entered without incident. I always hear that people with DUIs can't enter Canada, but I've known plenty who have.
Has your sister or husband actually ever been turned away? Or do they just not try?
The US states have misdemeanor and felony offences. Canada and its provinces and territories have summary offences and indictable offences, but we also have hybrid offences that could be prosecuted either summarily or via indictment.

In Canada most of our laws concerning drinking and driving are either hybrid or indictable offences, rather than only summary.

People who are neither Canadian citizens nor permanent residents of Canada are not permitted into Canada if they have been convicted anywhere at any time of an offence that in Canada would be considered to be a hybrid offence or an indictable offence.

This means that a misdemeanor conviction for drunk driving in the USA would be deemed in Canada to be a hybrid offence that would preclude admission into Canada.

The sharing of information between police and immigration on both sides of the border has greatly increased due to agreements between Canada and the USA along with improved record keeping, improved data management and improved telecommunications, so folks who had a teenage misdemeanor drunk driving conviction when they were a teenager sixty years ago now will find themselves being turned back at the Canadian border when the conviction turns up on a data search.

If a person has had such a conviction but can establish that they have redeemed themself, they will be admitted into Canada. At its simplest, this will involve an application fee of about a hundred bucks, a lengthy interview, and some phone calls. If that does not suffice, then the person will be turned back.

The best way to avoid this is to get a pardon in the USA, and apply for and receive your rehabilitation before you try to enter Canada.

A word to the wise. Do not lie when crossing into Canada. Do not make assumptions, such as you're old misdemeanor not mattering (it often does), or that you're 2nd amendment right exists in Canada (it does not), or that you can bring your weapon into Canada because you are a police officer (you cannot, and your weapon will either be seized and destroyed, or it will be delivered to your Chief of Police along with a polite letter).
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Hour after hour, day after day, we paddled and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, wanting never to return.

Last edited by Muffin; 10-18-2019 at 09:26 AM.
  #37  
Old 10-18-2019, 10:08 AM
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Eh, neither my sister or her husband can legally get into Canada (they both have drunk driving arrests) and we spent a week on Rainy Lake crossing back and forth over the border. And I don't know anyone who is a regular Boundary Waters camper who hasn't spent a night on the wrong side of the border when the wind kicks up and it isn't safe to cross back to the U.S. side.

(Up there park rangers tell you to keep to the U.S. side of the lakes for camping, but sometimes that isn't safe - and everyone has been chill about "you are in a canoe, don't put your life in danger trying to get to your own side).

The first time I was in Canada I crossed in near Warroad on a stretch of "road" simply to say I'd been in Canada. There are kids who go to school in Warroad that have to go through Canada on their bus every day.

Its in our best interests to keep that border "ajar" OK, its in the best interests of my friends who don't want to have to canoe a mile across a lake against the wind in a storm.
The international boundary between Lake Superior and Rainy Lake goes up the middle of the lakes and rivers. Crossing without proper authorization is not permitted, but obviously that will not be enforced in a blow. Folks on the wrong side of the border when there is not a genuine need for safe harbour will find themselves in trouble (oln the Canadian side, a request that they move on, or a scolding or a ticket). Note that apart from the international boundary issue, there are also permitting issues by the parks on each side of the border.

This used to be a major trade route, so right of passage through the traditional portages has been protected under the Webster-Ashburton Treaty of 1842 under which many of the border disputes were settled.

Article II
Quote:
It being understood that all the water-communications, and all the usual portages along the line from Lake Superior to the Lake of the Woods; and also Grand Portage, from the shore of Lake Superior to the Pigeon River, as now actually used, shall be free and open to the use of the citizens and subjects of both countries.
It is OK for citizens/subjects of Canada or the USA to use these traditional portages regardless of which side of the border it is on. It is not OK to have a shore lunch or to camp on or by a portage if it is not on your side of the border unless you have obtained the proper permits (and aside from the boundary issue, all the parks frown on using portages for camping).
international and park permits.

And no, the American 2nd amendment does not exist in Canada, so Americans will get in trouble if they are caught on the Canadian side without the proper Canadian permits.
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Hour after hour, day after day, we paddled and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, wanting never to return.

Last edited by Muffin; 10-18-2019 at 10:12 AM.
  #38  
Old 10-16-2019, 02:12 PM
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I believe this was all part of King George III's plan. Thank you border patrol for protecting the colonies.
  #39  
Old 10-16-2019, 04:59 PM
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Yeah, the story that officials are telling is really, really different. They say the family was driving sneakily through a ditch, carrying a large amount of US currency (which doesn't make a lot of sense for British nationals planning to stay in Canada) and when they attempted to just send them back into into Canada, Canada didn't want them. The initial article also looks kind of biased to me, notably the complaint that the officers didn't read them their rights makes it sound like procedure wasn't being followed, when in reality US officers actually only need to read Miranda rights if they plan to question someone, and typically only do so before questioning.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immig...67e_story.html
Quote:
“Attempts were made to return the individuals to Canada, however, Canada refused to allow their return and two attempts to contact the United Kingdom consulate were unsuccessful,” the CBP statement read.

The CBP official said it was not clear why Canada refused to let the family back into the country.
Quote:
CBP officials disputed the family’s version of events and said the Connors were spotted via video surveillance “slowly and deliberately driving through a ditch onto Boundary Road in Lynden, Washington,” between parallel roadways on the U.S. and Canadian sides. The roads are not connected by cross streets, and the only legal way to traverse between the countries is through staffed border stations throughout the region.
  #40  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:44 PM
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There's nothing illegal about carrying a large amount of cash, but yes, you do have to declare it at $10,000.
  #41  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:50 PM
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There's nothing illegal about carrying a large amount of cash, but yes, you do have to declare it at $10,000.
Sure, but if you’re doing something else that IS illegal, it’s perfectly reasonable to take it into consideration when considering the plausibility of your excuse.
  #42  
Old 10-17-2019, 04:07 PM
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There's nothing illegal about carrying a large amount of cash, but yes, you do have to declare it at $10,000.
There is, however, something highly suspicious about a person from country A who's visiting country B and claims to have no plans to go into country C carrying a large amount of cash in country C's currency when they 'accidentally' end up in country C. Carrying a lot of cash in the currency of a country you're supposedly not planning to go to is pretty unusual unless you're somewhere were the local currency is especially shaky and you have a more stable currency (which is not a problem for Canada or the UK). It greatly undermines the claim that one inadvertently crossed the border if one is carrying money that is only readily accepted in the country they supposedly didn't want to enter.

I'm not overly trusting of ICE and border patrol, but if their statements are true (especially the part about Canada refusing to allow them into the country) then the detention is perfectly reasonable.
  #43  
Old 10-17-2019, 04:03 AM
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So will It be drug smuggling or gun smuggling?

Or the occasional bizarre maple syrup smuggling?
  #44  
Old 10-17-2019, 04:11 AM
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Well apparently they're on a plane winging it home right now, so no doubt we'll learn more when they land. If there's dirt, you can rely on our tabloid press to find it!
  #45  
Old 10-17-2019, 05:27 AM
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So will It be drug smuggling or gun smuggling?

Or the occasional bizarre maple syrup smuggling?
Baby smuggling. They were hoping they could claim that the 3-month old had just been delivered while on U.S. soil. Instant Anchor Baby!

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 10-17-2019 at 05:27 AM.
  #46  
Old 10-17-2019, 01:22 PM
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Note: I am NOT inclined to believe the word of ICE or CBP, until we get confirmation from other organizations.

We only have CBP's word that they tried to send the Connors back into Canada. Until we hear back from Canadian Immigration, I take that with a grain of salt.

We only have their word that the Connors' had that money on them. Did they leave that money with the Connors?

Ok, I can believe that if the Connors were trying to sneak into the U.S. with money, they might not want to make a stink about losing it, but I can also believe that ICE would fabricate things to make themselves look better.

If you think it's not about race, you probably haven't seen pictures of these people. They may have English names, but they are definitely not WASP. I'd say there's a decent probability that these people are Irish Travellers or Rom.
  #47  
Old 10-17-2019, 07:11 PM
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Note: I am NOT inclined to believe the word of ICE or CBP, until we get confirmation from other organizations.

We only have CBP's word that they tried to send the Connors back into Canada. Until we hear back from Canadian Immigration, I take that with a grain of salt.

We only have their word that the Connors' had that money on them. Did they leave that money with the Connors?

Ok, I can believe that if the Connors were trying to sneak into the U.S. with money, they might not want to make a stink about losing it, but I can also believe that ICE would fabricate things to make themselves look better.

If you think it's not about race, you probably haven't seen pictures of these people. They may have English names, but they are definitely not WASP. I'd say there's a decent probability that these people are Irish Travellers or Rom.
Extended family traveling together w/ a large amount of cash and no home address sounds like Travelers.
  #48  
Old 10-17-2019, 11:45 PM
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Extended family traveling together w/ a large amount of cash and no home address sounds like Travelers.
How is this relevant? Irish Travellers are genetically Irish. I have seen pictures of these people and there is nothing remarkable about them other than (IMO) the wife's questionable fashion choices. Not even the Conners are playing the racial/ethnic bias card so why here? If they are Irish Travellers (and there is NO claim or evidence of this) why is their big wad of cash in USD? Was that accidental too?
  #49  
Old 10-18-2019, 12:22 AM
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How is this relevant? Irish Travellers are genetically Irish. I have seen pictures of these people and there is nothing remarkable about them other than (IMO) the wife's questionable fashion choices. Not even the Conners are playing the racial/ethnic bias card so why here? If they are Irish Travellers (and there is NO claim or evidence of this) why is their big wad of cash in USD? Was that accidental too?
I'm not saying ICE pinged them for how they look. Zyada posited that was possible. I'm saying the circumstances make it possible they're Travellers trying to avoid CBP & the cash wasn't an accident b/c they meant to continue on into the States. I haven't seen a picture of them.
  #50  
Old 10-18-2019, 11:11 AM
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Something fishy


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
How is this relevant? Irish Travellers are genetically Irish. I have seen pictures of these people and there is nothing remarkable about them other than (IMO) the wife's questionable fashion choices. Not even the Conners are playing the racial/ethnic bias card so why here? If they are Irish Travellers (and there is NO claim or evidence of this) why is their big wad of cash in USD? Was that accidental too?
I beg to differ. They really do look like Travellers, and the woman in particular looks like a Roma. Maybe the media are being too PC to refer to the matter? and, no home address in the UK? This really is weird.

While the actions of the ICE are questionable in several ways, why did these people cross a ditch and then drive down the US side of the road instead of getting back out of the ditch on the Canadian side?

The moral of story: the US-Canadian needs a fence, just for demarcation purposes.
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