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Old 04-13-2018, 11:51 AM
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Anti-achievement at its finest: Acceptance by 20 colleges called "obnoxious"

Link to article: D.C. Fox 5 anchors slam teen who received 20 full rides to college.

So a Texas teen named Michael Brown discovers he's been accepted by all 20 schools he applied to, including prestigious Ivy Leagues. The kid has an astronomical GPA and a near perfect SAT score...clearly the guy is winning in the academic department. Great accomplishment, right?

Well, the story is covered by some newscasters who choose to harp about how "obnoxious" it is that by getting into so many schools, he took spots from “someone else who worked really hard.” Instead of saying something congratulatory, their immediate reaction is to criticize him using truly WTF? logic. The has led many people (including the student) to speak out.

Of note is that the student is a black male and the anchors are white women. I, like others, don't think it's a coincidence they said these things about a student with his racial background, because "taking a spot from someone else" is a charge pretty much every black person who attends competitive college has to defend themselves against in some shape or form. Rarely do whites have to put up with this; the default assumption is that they belong to any school they attend. Even if they are mediocre students. Argue what you want, but Michael Brown is not mediocre by any metric and yet he's still getting treated like he has taken rather than earned something.

And it is sad that him applying to 20 schools (instead of 4 or 5 which one newscaster insisted was better) was portrayed as arrogant, attention-seeking behavior. In all probability, he picked 20 because he was uncertain that he'd get into his preferred schools. In other words, a lack of arrogance likely guided his decision to apply widely. I wouldn't be surprised if it was his parents that insisted he do this, because that's what my mother did to me. She didn't want me to miss out on opportunities unnecessarily. But instead of pausing to consider the possibility Michael Brown approached the college application process with the cautious, risk averse mindset of someone who doesn't assume the world is his oyster, the news anchors found it easier to spin it as the complete opposite. Uppity, in other words.

What was behind all this commentary? Was this privilege blinding them to other possible points of view? Was this them assuming (like many stupid people do) that black people don't have to work hard to get into college; they can just apply and get in anywhere and of course, the kid would know this so he just wanted to waste his money in applying to a bunch of schools so he could have bragging rights? I'm struggling to understand why they couldn't keep a check on their biases and just say what is always expected for stories like this. "Wow, what an amazing accomplishment. I bet his parents are so proud. Now back to you, Bob, for the weather."

Michael Brown has asked for an apology. It'll be interesting to see whether he gets it. My guess is not.
  #2  
Old 04-13-2018, 11:55 AM
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Of note is that the student is a black male and the anchors are white women.
I find this to be the most shocking part of that story.



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Old 04-13-2018, 11:57 AM
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That link is broken for me, but it sounds like a very clear example of privilege (and just plain stupidity) in action. Also an example of the many, many ways in which young black folks often can't win. Newsflash to reporters -- students don't know going in which schools they'll get accepted into. They apply to multiple schools to make sure they get into at least one, and hopefully more than one, so they'll have multiple options.

EDIT: Here's a link that worked for me. One of the anchors apologized, but apparently the other did not:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b07a3485e78869

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 04-13-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:57 AM
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I'm sure they saw the criticism and boycott of Laura Ingraham for mocking David Hogg for not getting in to UCLA, so they figured they'd take the opposite approach. And now they're being criticized for that, too. When will you liberals make up your mind?
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:59 AM
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Thanks for the link iiandyiiiii.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:04 PM
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I'm sure they saw the criticism and boycott of Laura Ingraham for mocking David Hogg for not getting in to UCLA, so they figured they'd take the opposite approach. And now they're being criticized for that, too. When will you liberals make up your mind?
To hell with "Doctor" Laura. She deserves all the heat she got, and MORE. It's called free speech (which goes both ways).
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:09 PM
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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I really don't understand this: he took spots from “someone else who worked really hard.”

So he's accepted to 20 schools, but surely it doesn't mean that he goes to every single one of them. He goes to one and the others just replace him with the next in line, right ?
It's not like there's 19 empty places now ?
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:24 PM
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Since when does getting accepted take someone else's spot?
Pretty sure the only spot he's going to take is the one at the school he chooses.
"We had room for 1,000 incoming students this year so we accepted 1,000 applications. Only 100 chose to enroll and now our attendance is suffering. What the hell are we doing wrong?"
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:42 PM
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This is weapons-grade stupid.
  #11  
Old 04-13-2018, 12:44 PM
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I think they were complaining about wait list times.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:49 PM
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It's stupid - he's not "taking" a spot from anyone else. He can only go to one school at a time, the other 19 schools will just take the next candidate in line.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:51 PM
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The anchor who didn't apologize wrote this reply on twitter: "the whole point of our social circle segment is to talk about topics where we have differing opinions." Meaning, they probably argue for the sake of it to bring in ratings, or why I don't watch television news.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:25 PM
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And it is sad that him applying to 20 schools (instead of 4 or 5 which one newscaster insisted was better) was portrayed as arrogant, attention-seeking behavior. In all probability, he picked 20 because he was uncertain that he'd get into his preferred schools. In other words, a lack of arrogance likely guided his decision to apply widely. I wouldn't be surprised if it was his parents that insisted he do this, because that's what my mother did to me. She didn't want me to miss out on opportunities unnecessarily. But instead of pausing to consider the possibility Michael Brown approached the college application process with the cautious, risk averse mindset of someone who doesn't assume the world is his oyster, the news anchors found it easier to spin it as the complete opposite. Uppity, in other words.
I don't think it was arrogant or attention-seeking, but are you kidding? A black kid with outstanding grades and a stellar SAT can get into any university he wants. They will trample each other in the effort to convince him to go to their school.

Of course he applied to 20 schools. Which one will give him the best offer? He'd be crazy not to.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:29 PM
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To hell with "Doctor" Laura. She deserves all the heat she got, and MORE. It's called free speech (which goes both ways).
I don't like Laura Ingraham either, but I think you're confusing her with Laura Schlessinger. (Who's also a bitch)

Last edited by Guinastasia; 04-13-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:31 PM
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This is weapons-grade stupid.
Any denser it'd go critical. Nuclear stupidity. People have been killed by the stupidon cascade from a prompt critical stupidity chain reaction. Not the stupids, of course,

I would weep for humanity, but I refuse to include those meat puppets in that category.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I don't think it was arrogant or attention-seeking, but are you kidding? A black kid with outstanding grades and a stellar SAT can get into any university he wants. They will trample each other in the effort to convince him to go to their school.

Of course he applied to 20 schools. Which one will give him the best offer? He'd be crazy not to.

Regards,
Shodan
Thanks for demonstrating yet another way in which young black folks can't win -- the myth that successful black people didn't earn their position.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:41 PM
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Of course he applied to 20 schools. Which one will give him the best offer? He'd be crazy not to.
I was initially thinking that applying to 20 schools was excessive (not wrong or obnoxious, just maybe unnecessary), but the fact that he's likely to get specific and different scholarship offers from different schools makes it totally reasonable.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:45 PM
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Thanks for demonstrating yet another way in which young black folks can't win -- the myth that successful black people didn't earn their position.
I don't think that is what he meant at all.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:45 PM
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Full scholarships to all of them. Money was definitely a concern for the family, so that was both impressive and welcome news. Certainly, there will be other associated costs that may factor, but certainly congratulations are in order. His current plans are for law school, so it's good the family will be able to save some money ahead of that.

Last edited by Great Antibob; 04-13-2018 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:47 PM
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This is weapons-grade stupid.
I feel dumber for just reading about it third-hand. It is the world’s first memetical weapon of mass disinegenuation.

As pointed out, competitive schools have long waitlists of prospective students who would be happy to take the nineteen spaces this student will decline. Unless he literally intends to attend twenty schools simulataneously he isn’t taking anything away from anyone.

Stranger

Last edited by Stranger On A Train; 04-13-2018 at 01:48 PM.
  #22  
Old 04-13-2018, 01:53 PM
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Apparently FOX news anchors are intimidated by the intelligent. They're the ones who bring up climate change, evolution, and other sinful topics.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:01 PM
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I don't think that is what he meant at all.
If not, he can clarify and I'll withdraw my point.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:01 PM
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This the twitter apology from Sara Fraser:

Quote:
Bishop Talbert - I am sorry. I’m sorry to Michael b. I truly had no malice when I set this story up, we wanted to ask is 20 schools too much? But I see now that was petty. Michael is awesome and I have learned a lesson.

bolding mine

First off, good on her for apologizing. But I don't understand why they thought this was a good set up in the first place. Is 20 schools too much for what? The only downsides to casting a wide net are incurred by the student who has to put in the time and application fees; it is inconsequential to anyone else. If the question really is, what is the minimum number of schools a student should aim for, I could see some discussion around that. But for the short amount of time they had to gab, it was bad judgement to make the subject be the number of schools the kid applied to, when the obvious detail is that he succeeded in getting into all of them much to the excitement of him and his friends.

This is the non-apology t the other host, Holly Morris, tweeted:

Quote:
I just believe in a more targeted search. I think the common ap has changed the game and makes it too easy to apply to too many schools. Has nothing to do with privilege. Just my opinion. We can disagree... that’s ok
What the benefit of more targeted search, if the student wants to maximize her/his options?
  #25  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:06 PM
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manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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What the benefit of more targeted search, if the student wants to maximize her/his options?
It's clear that those two women mistakenly believe that the kid is taking spots that other, probably white, kids would have at those 20 colleges. The women are just stupid.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:36 PM
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Of course he applied to 20 schools. Which one will give him the best offer? He'd be crazy not to.

Regards,
Shodan
The TV hosts say MB's ridiculous for applying to 20 schools. On the other hand, Shodan says he'd be crazy if he didn't. Both opinions seem to rest on the idea that his strategy was a calculated one.

But when I see the video of the kid celebrating his acceptances, all I see is pure surprise and excitement. Why would this be his reaction is he already knew he'd get into these places and that they all would be throwing money at him? I feel like this is good evidence he wasn't counting on this outcome at all. He just wanted to ensure he had as many options as possible and he hoped he'd get that if he canvassed widely.

I guess one could speculate the entire thing was staged and/or he was hamming it up. But you know, that theory just seems like one more way to diminish him.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:49 PM
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It's stupid - he's not "taking" a spot from anyone else. He can only go to one school at a time, the other 19 schools will just take the next candidate in line.
WE know that, but he is black after all, and I'm pretty sure the average Fox viewer thinks that he could have 19 of his fellow gangbangers (cite: he's black) take those spots (since there's no known way of telling young black men apart) and then claim that the school is racist and has to give them doctorates as reparations. Only, y'know, without the words of greater than two syllables.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:50 PM
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But when I see the video of the kid celebrating his acceptances, all I see is pure surprise and excitement. Why would this be his reaction is he already knew he'd get into these places and that they all would be throwing money at him?
Because he found out that all twenty would be throwing money at him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii
Thanks for demonstrating yet another way in which young black folks can't win -- the myth that successful black people didn't earn their position.
What the dickens are you talking about?

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:53 PM
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Because he found out that all twenty would be throwing money at him.

What the dickens are you talking about?

Regards,
Shodan
You included one too many words in your first comment, which made it seem like you thought that his race was an important, if not the most important, factor in his selection. This ignores all of the other data points that show he was indeed a very qualified candidate. I'll bold the word so you can find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I don't think it was arrogant or attention-seeking, but are you kidding? A black kid with outstanding grades and a stellar SAT can get into any university he wants. They will trample each other in the effort to convince him to go to their school.

Of course he applied to 20 schools. Which one will give him the best offer? He'd be crazy not to.

Regards,
Shodan

Last edited by Sunny Daze; 04-13-2018 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:20 PM
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I don't think it was arrogant or attention-seeking, but are you kidding? A black kid with outstanding grades and a stellar SAT can get into any university he wants. They will trample each other in the effort to convince him to go to their school.

Of course he applied to 20 schools. Which one will give him the best offer? He'd be crazy not to.

Regards,
Shodan
Damn right!!!!!
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:22 PM
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I don't like Laura Ingraham either, but I think you're confusing her with Laura Schlessinger. (Who's also a bitch)
In this case, I definitely meant Ingraham. But yeah, the other one is trash too, anyway.
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:24 PM
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I don't think that is what he meant at all.
Me neither. I took it as saying the kid increased the odds of getting into a school by applying to as many as he could - exactly like we ALL did.
  #33  
Old 04-13-2018, 04:49 PM
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I agree with iiandyiiii. Shodan's post definitely reads as if he thinks the kid being black is relevant. And Shodan has a history of posts attacking colleges for valuing diversity. His post definitely reads as if he thinks the reason the schools are trying to recruit him is because he is a smart black student, not just a smart student.

That said, a better response would have been to just ask him why he thought it was relevant that the student is black. If he didn't mean anything by it, he'll say that. If he meant it badly, he'll either take it back or hang himself in short order.

By responding now, when it was not quite clear, you give him an obvious out that you are just "too easily offended."
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train View Post
I feel dumber for just reading about it third-hand. It is the world’s first memetical weapon of mass disinegenuation.

As pointed out, competitive schools have long waitlists of prospective students who would be happy to take the nineteen spaces this student will decline. Unless he literally intends to attend twenty schools simulataneously he isn’t taking anything away from anyone.

Stranger
He’s already shown himself to be pretty impressive. He might just be up to the challenge.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:03 PM
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:04 PM
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You included one too many words in your first comment, which made it seem like you thought that his race was an important, if not the most important, factor in his selection. This ignores all of the other data points that show he was indeed a very qualified candidate. I'll bold the word so you can find it.
"Bold" (typeset) in Spanish is "negrita."

Just sayin'.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:08 PM
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I agree with iiandyiiii. Shodan's post definitely reads as if he thinks the kid being black is relevant. And Shodan has a history of posts attacking colleges for valuing diversity. His post definitely reads as if he thinks the reason the schools are trying to recruit him is because he is a smart black student, not just a smart student.

That said, a better response would have been to just ask him why he thought it was relevant that the student is black. If he didn't mean anything by it, he'll say that. If he meant it badly, he'll either take it back or hang himself in short order.

By responding now, when it was not quite clear, you give him an obvious out that you are just "too easily offended."
I see that he just mentioned that he was black in passing, just as the OP mentioned "black male" which may or may not be relevant to the discussion. I don't see any motive, just discussion.

[/sidetrack]
  #38  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:10 PM
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In this case, I definitely meant Ingraham. But yeah, the other one is trash too, anyway.
Ingraham isn't Doctor Laura, that's what I meant. They're both cunts, but only one is "Doctor" Laura.

And holy shit, I hope this kid's friends throw him the party of a life time. That is fucking amazing!
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:10 PM
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I take issue with the “of course he knew he’d get in; he was trying to just see who he could squeeze the most” idea that Shodan put forth. It presumes the kid saw himself as being in the power seat, which is what privileged people often project onto others. I think it’s more likely the kid assumed the opposite; being overly cautious is consistent with being 1st generation college student who puts a lot pressure on themselves.

Read this CNN article and you’ll get the same impression I get about him:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...rnd/index.html
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:38 PM
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Ingraham isn't Doctor Laura, that's what I meant. They're both cunts, but only one is "Doctor" Laura.

And holy shit, I hope this kid's friends throw him the party of a life time. That is fucking amazing!
But it’s interesting to note that, as the holder of a J.D., Ingraham is technically just as entitled to the honorific as Schlesinger.
  #41  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:38 PM
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Apparently FOX news anchors are intimidated by the intelligent. They're the ones who bring up climate change, evolution, and other sinful topics.
Perhaps segments like this are the TV equivalent of the spelling and grammar errors in Nigerian Scam letters - a filter to weed out the people who are too smart to be taken in.

If you're intelligent enough to be aware of the concept of the "second round offer" (not a high bar) then you're too intelligent to be their mark ... uh ... viewer
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  #42  
Old 04-13-2018, 06:37 PM
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"Bold" (typeset) in Spanish is "negrita."

Just sayin'.
I thought about that as I applied the tag. Rather meta, or a pun. Take your pick.
  #43  
Old 04-13-2018, 06:40 PM
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Perhaps segments like this are the TV equivalent of the spelling and grammar errors in Nigerian Scam letters - a filter to weed out the people who are too smart to be taken in.

If you're intelligent enough to be aware of the concept of the "second round offer" (not a high bar) then you're too intelligent to be their mark ... uh ... viewer
Is it possible? Is it possible the anchor did not know that this kid did not tie up the other 19 spots????
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:53 PM
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Is it possible? Is it possible the anchor did not know that this kid did not tie up the other 19 spots????
It is a rabbit hole with no end to try to determine the things that a fox news anchor may not be aware of.
  #45  
Old 04-13-2018, 06:56 PM
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Is it possible? Is it possible the anchor did not know that this kid did not tie up the other 19 spots????
Most likely if the anchor had never applied to a college.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:03 PM
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Just as a data point, most kids don't apply to 20 colleges, even if they have stellar GPAs and high SATs, because except for the first four or five schools (I forget, it's been awhile) they charge money to apply. Some colleges waive those application fees. It's common for them to be waived for kids who don't have a family tradition of going to college, i.e., if you're the first in your family, but for most of us who aren't in that category, 20 does sound like a lot. Among other things a Fox news anchor might be unaware of.

I sure don't understand why it's obnoxious, though.
  #47  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:09 PM
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Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Just another black kid showing off his intellectual prowess.
  #48  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:13 PM
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Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Fox News: New day, new low.
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Apparently FOX news anchors are intimidated by the intelligent. They're the ones who bring up climate change, evolution, and other sinful topics.
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Originally Posted by 3trew View Post
WE know that, but he is black after all, and I'm pretty sure the average Fox viewer thinks that he could have 19 of his fellow gangbangers (cite: he's black) take those spots (since there's no known way of telling young black men apart) and then claim that the school is racist and has to give them doctorates as reparations. Only, y'know, without the words of greater than two syllables.
Minor nitpick. This is a local Fox network affiliate, not the same as Fox News. They are still crap, but usually in a sensationalistic "What product in your house is killing your children? Tune in at 11:00" rather than a "All liberals are traitors" kind of way.

Otherwise carry on.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 04-13-2018 at 07:17 PM.
  #49  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:17 PM
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Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
Minor nitpick. This is a local Fox network affiliate, not the same as Fox News. They are still crap, but usually in a sensationalistic "What product in your house is killing your children tune in at 11:00" rather than a "All liberals are traitors" kind of way.
Maybe I'm drunk but aren't they all required to read from the same script? I think I'm just drunk. But at least in limited scope, isn't that true? Or am I confusing things?
  #50  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:21 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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I am thoroughly enjoying all these youngsters clapping back at these so-called adults. We need more of this.
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