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  #1  
Old 05-23-2015, 09:21 PM
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aceplace57, what the fuck is wrong with you?


Maybe I'm overreacting a little, but your comments in the thread about Josh Duggar are absolutely disgusting:


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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Josh was a young teen when this occurred. The father reported it to the police. Since then Josh has had no further known issues.

Its pretty silly to label a young teen a pedo for being curious about girls. What he did was wrong and illegal. But it in no way reflects on his behavior as an adult. He was a curious and horny teen with hormones running wild. Just like any other horny young boy who gets his first erection. Their dick gets hard when the wind blows.

He lived in a huge family. He would have been caught if he had gone into their bedrooms and continued touching the girls. AFAIK theres been no further incidents since it was reported to the police.

TLC must have known.

So apparently, Josh was just a young teen who was horny, not a predator! I mean, I guess he could have resorted to Rosie Palm, but hey, all those girls in the family, why not? And hey, they did go to the police, right? (Except, not.)



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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I'll show you mine if you show me yours was a common childhood game. Kids are inquisitive. Puberty stirs up a lot of mixed up feelings.

It's true most young boys don't fondle their sisters. But it does happen. Thankfully in most cases that's all there is too it. Parents have to use their best judgement in correcting the problem.

I can't believe people can't see the difference in a young boy going through puberty and a sexually deviant adult. The whole point of parenting is to instruct and correct behavior. So that their kids grow up to be responsible adults.

Are people suggesting a young boy is already beyond help? Lets label a kid a pedo?
I know, we all played doctor when we were fourteen with five-year-olds. It's natural!

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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I don't know for certain that Josh hasn't touched a kid since he was caught and talked to the State police. But, so far there's no indication that he has done anything but live an upstanding life as an adult.

Yep, he's a real prince:

Quote:
That’s not the only whiff of hypocrisy emanating from the repugnant story. Until Friday, Josh represented the Family Research Council, which claimed in a 1999 publication that “one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets’ of a new sexual order,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
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Exercising personal religious beliefs does not make someone a bad person. These days it takes quite a bit of courage to openly endorse fundamental religious beliefs that have been held true for over two thousand years.

I don't agree with much of what the Duggars follow. My wife and I sought out and attend a moderate church. Our congregation and deacons wouldn't hire an ultra conservative pastor. But, I do respect people in religions that I don't follow.
Yeah, you gotta have respect for a religious bigot who thinks it's okay to discriminate against gays and women. Because, you know, that takes courage.



Go sit on a cactus, ace.
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2015, 11:06 PM
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Oh, and BTW, Christian fundamentalism is NOT two-thousand years old. It's only a little over one-hundred years old.
  #3  
Old 05-24-2015, 12:17 AM
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Ace is the place for the helpful....shit, little help here?
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:17 AM
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God, this has been a long time coming. Think he'll bother to show up?
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:22 AM
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I should probably tell him he's being Pitted.
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:31 AM
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Ace is the place for the helpful....shit, little help here?
Hard teen man?
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:50 AM
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Ace is the place for the helpful....shit, little help here?
57 flavors?
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:53 AM
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Ace is the place for the helpful....shit, little help here?
Helpful hardon man?
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:02 AM
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Aceplace is making an unpopular assertion, big deal - people do that all the time. It's not an assertion I agree with; but if the assertion is totally misguided, there were no cites that I could see that anyone cared to share with the board relevant to that.

The Duggars and Josh's behavior and attitudes seem pretty skeevy to me - but I don't see Aceplace really doing anything wrong other than having an unpopular opinion.
  #10  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:08 AM
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The Duggars and Josh's behavior and attitudes seem pretty skeevy to me - but I don't see Aceplace really doing anything wrong other than having an unpopular opinion.
Fondling a five year old goes way beyond skeevy.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:12 AM
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Good gawd Ace. Josh is a dumb fuck under any definition of the word. I wouldn't trust him around an elementary school if he had a platoon of FBI agents watching him.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:17 AM
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Fondling a five year old goes way beyond skeevy.
I agree with that - I'm as grossed out sickened by this as anyone.

My point is that as far as I can tell Aceplace is defending sickening behavior, but is that in and of itself wrong? Maybe it is, but the Dope generally is a place where these issues can be discussed in a critical manner; Aceplace does not seem to be going against board norms in his posting, he is just taking a very unpopular view.

Is taking an unpopular view and trying to explore it and defend in a logical way a truly pit worthy offense? Perhaps it is, perhaps not YMMV.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:21 AM
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I just hope Ace's sister turned out OK.
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nylock View Post
The Duggars and Josh's behavior and attitudes seem pretty skeevy to me - but I don't see Aceplace really doing anything wrong other than having an unpopular opinion.
Well, handwaving away a teenage kid fondling his sisters while they slept as a benign case of "you show me yours I'll show you mine" between innocent kids could be construed, by some of our overly sensitive, bleeding heart readers as severely fucking fucked up.
  #15  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nylock View Post
My point is that as far as I can tell Aceplace is defending sickening behavior, but is that in and of itself wrong?
Yes, it is.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:00 AM
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Ace never even pinged my radar until about a year ago, but since then everything he posts is either stupdi, creepy, or straight out of right-wing radio.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:02 AM
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Unpopular opinions are pitted all the time around here. This board has never been tolerant of all ideas, thoughts, and opinions equally. No one is saying ace should get banned over his opinion, fer cryin' out loud.
  #18  
Old 05-24-2015, 11:07 AM
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Ace never even pinged my radar until about a year ago, but since then everything he posts is either stupdi, creepy, or straight out of right-wing radio.
And often two out of three.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:10 AM
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The most frustrating part is that he remained stubbornly ignorant of the facts throughout much of the thread. He didn't seem to comprehend that it was five victims, not just one. He kept characterizing it as a stupid mistake instead of an obvious pattern of abuse. He had no clue that the Duggars homeschool their kids or that the "counseling" Josh and his victims received was faith-based, victim blaming, and based on the teachings of a guy accused of sexually harassing many different women himself. I wondered whether ace was even reading the thread.

Last edited by SaharaTea; 05-24-2015 at 11:14 AM.
  #20  
Old 05-24-2015, 12:02 PM
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I wondered whether ace was even reading the thread.
He never seems to respond to anything in threads just throws out his ignorant opinion. Clearly he reads some part of the threads as it's not completely random where he replies. I wish he'd actually engage in some way.
  #21  
Old 05-24-2015, 12:03 PM
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He never seems to respond to anything in threads just throws out his ignorant opinion. Clearly he reads some part of the threads as it's not completely random where he replies. I wish he'd actually engage in some way.
Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nylock View Post
My point is that as far as I can tell Aceplace is defending sickening behavior, but is that in and of itself wrong? Maybe it is, but the Dope generally is a place where these issues can be discussed in a critical manner; Aceplace does not seem to be going against board norms in his posting, he is just taking a very unpopular view.
Even if that were true, it's just one addition to a posting record that marks aceplace57 as one of the biggest fucking mouth-breathing morons on this board. The guy is a walking testament to ignorance and stupidity.

While ralph124c represents the faux-inquisitive New England version of clueless idiocy on this message board, aceplace57 is the slack-jawed backwoods Arkansas representative. If all of the ill-considered, stupid, badly researched, and poorly articulated threads started by these two separated-at-birth brain donors were removed from the database, it would probably speed up board performance by about fifty percent.
  #23  
Old 05-24-2015, 02:16 PM
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Ace never even pinged my radar until about a year ago, but since then everything he posts is either stupdi, creepy, or straight out of right-wing radio.
I feel the same way. When I first took note of him, I remember thinking he seemed pretty cool, if a bit old-fashioned. Then, all of the sudden, everything he posted was outrageously bigoted and moronic. When I became aware of the new pattern, I actually felt disgusted with myself for ever thinking he was okay.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:16 PM
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And that is my biggest problem with Aceplace57. It seems there is nothing he reads or watches that he does not thereupon start a thread about it. Often he casts these threads in the most extreme light (You could be arrested for taking a photo of Old Faithful this summer!) in order to get more bites from us billy goats.

Thank you, Guin, for bringing him to task for something so I could express this.

ETA: referencing mhendo's post.

Last edited by jimbuff314; 05-24-2015 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:30 PM
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It's lack of critical thinking skills. He sees some inflammatory headline, doesn't really comprehend what he's reading, makes the most ass backwards assumptions and then posts it. I know he wasn't the one who started the thread about the black actress who'd been filmed walking down the street being cat called and summarily called her a pejorative in the title (like calling her a prostitute when that couldn't be further from the truth), ignoring all the evidence to the contrary, but that's exactly what he's like.

Then when it's pointed out that he's a million miles off base from his supposition, he doubled down on the stupid. Refusing to really address the meat of the matter, like shown above, and instead focusing on whatever the voices in his head are telling him that doesn't reflect reality one iota. And after he's completely shit up a thread with his mixture of bigoted inanity, disappears and just starts another one with the same MO. It's ridiculous.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:26 PM
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I remember a thread in which he posted about the police "protecting" the Selma marchers. As if protection came to mean spraying them with firehoses and beating them with billy clubs.

How you can live in the South and not know this history is beyond me.
  #27  
Old 05-24-2015, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nylock View Post
I agree with that - I'm as grossed out sickened by this as anyone.

My point is that as far as I can tell Aceplace is defending sickening behavior, but is that in and of itself wrong? Maybe it is, but the Dope generally is a place where these issues can be discussed in a critical manner; Aceplace does not seem to be going against board norms in his posting, he is just taking a very unpopular view.

Is taking an unpopular view and trying to explore it and defend in a logical way a truly pit worthy offense? Perhaps it is, perhaps not YMMV.
Are you retarded?

This isn't just an "unpopular view". An unpopular view would be something like chocolate is gross, or kittens are ugly. This is a guy who said that someone molesting his own sisters is just a horny kid who couldn't help himself. That's not an "unpopular" opinion. That's just downright disturbing.

Not all "opinions" are worthy of being defended. Especially when they're coming from a guy with turds for brains like ace.

Last edited by Guinastasia; 05-24-2015 at 03:41 PM.
  #28  
Old 05-24-2015, 04:50 PM
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Not all "opinions" are worthy of being defended.
A Relevant PSA.
  #29  
Old 05-24-2015, 05:48 PM
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Are you retarded?
It's possible; I have not been tested in a while.

Quote:
Not all "opinions" are worthy of being defended. Especially when they're coming from a guy with turds for brains like ace.
In large part I can agree with that, but there is always this idea in my head that all opinions should be allowed a voice.

On the other hand - this isn't exactly the kind of thing I want go to the mat to defend. I don't really find aceplace's arguments compelling so far, and I don't find the behavior defensible; I think it is disgusting and twisted - I probably should have just stayed out of this debate.
  #30  
Old 05-24-2015, 06:19 PM
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there is always this idea in my head that all opinions should be allowed a voice.
Then why are you trying to shut Guin's opinion down?
  #31  
Old 05-24-2015, 06:32 PM
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Then why are you trying to shut Guin's opinion down?
Nothing to be confused about. Guin's first sentence was

Quote:
Maybe I'm overreacting a little, but your comments in the thread about Josh Duggar are absolutely disgusting:
My first response was to say that perhaps Aceplace was not exceptionally out of line given that a lot of edgy subjects are discussed on the dope, and that he was not getting out of line in terms of the rules of the board. I absolutely do not agree with what he is saying though, and do not find the behavior defensible.

I have come to think though, that the posters in this thread have a point, which is some things are just so loathsome that far fetched defenses of them should just not even be explored.

Last edited by Mr. Nylock; 05-24-2015 at 06:34 PM.
  #32  
Old 05-24-2015, 06:38 PM
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His comments in that thread revealed he knew nothing about the subject yet kept writing about it. Worse, chiding those of who had our facts correct. It was bizarre.

There are no excuses for the fucking Duggars. For years they have held themselves up as America's perfect family. They have unashamedly told us that they are good and we, unchristian, ungodly, unfertile and un-Duggar are bad. We are secular America, gay America, non-bible reading America and they are going to take over whether we like it or not.

Meanwhile they did nothing after their eldest son molested several of their daughters. When finally caught, they've offered us no apologies. Their son's actions are presented as a minor transgression one that is supposed to be barely worthy of notice. We are told that he got no real counseling at all, not even the fundy variety. We have every reason to believe that his sisters weren't given any help at all other than perhaps a lecture about how it is probably all their fault. They told us everything and I do mean everything (Michelle Duggar has practically conceived and given birth in public multiple times over the last few years) but they did not tell us this.

They've been all over the media in the last few years. I can barely read Facebook or pay for my groceries without seeing yet another mention of a Duggar j'slave somewhere. My twelve year old daughter knows who they are, for crissakes. I hope this is finally the nail in the coffin of the Duggar gravy train. I hope I never see Josh Duggar's ugly mug grinning out at me somewhere while he lobbies to tell me how to live my life. I hope Michelle Duggar finally pays attention to her remaining children and promises to keep them far away from Chester the Molester. Most of all, I hope no media ever decides to present to us a family of nineteen kids with stupid, sexist beliefs as role models for us all.
  #33  
Old 05-24-2015, 07:03 PM
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Most of all, I hope no media ever decides to present to us a family of nineteen kids with stupid, sexist beliefs as role models for us all.
Is it really what's happening ? I figured the draw of the show was in the same vein as Duck Dynasty or Honey Booboo, Sister Wives or, hell, even the Osbournes back in the day (and on a different network), i.e. "lookit the freaks !"
  #34  
Old 05-24-2015, 07:18 PM
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:21 PM
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Is it really what's happening ? I figured the draw of the show was in the same vein as Duck Dynasty or Honey Booboo, Sister Wives or, hell, even the Osbournes back in the day (and on a different network), i.e. "lookit the freaks !"
The media presentation has focused largely on presenting the Duggars as just a normal family with a lot of children. They have done almost nothing to inform the public about what the Duggars actually believe.

Scroll down here for a ten minute clip of the sort of coverage they have received over the years. No mention is made of their beliefs at all in that clip. No mention of the homophobia, sexism or Gothard. No mention of the quiverfull movement or the other aspects of their religion. It's just look at the pretty white family with lots of kids and good, honest American family values. It's been that way since I first saw them in that initial special. Most Americans know nothing about their belief system and the media has done much to keep it that way.
  #36  
Old 05-24-2015, 07:23 PM
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Jim Bob Duggar would never have agreed to do the show if it portrayed his family as a carnival side-show, and I suspect he's heavily involved in the editing. They are very careful in presenting themselves as role models for godly, old-fashioned family values (retch).
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:31 PM
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I kind of thought the same thing about them, if I have the family correct. "Reality" TV people. These are the guys, right?
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...09%3B400%3B500

I didn't know there was a conservative republican political tie-in, but with a family photo like that, I can believe it.
  #38  
Old 05-24-2015, 07:37 PM
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Is taking an unpopular view and trying to explore it and defend in a logical way a truly pit worthy offense? Perhaps it is, perhaps not YMMV.
What the fuck is the pit for if not for shouting at people you disagree with? Jesus you're fucking dumb.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:07 PM
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I remember a thread in which he posted about the police "protecting" the Selma marchers. As if protection came to mean spraying them with firehoses and beating them with billy clubs.

How you can live in the South and not know this history is beyond me.
Wasn't this the guy who thought that MLK did things the right way by getting permits for his marches, so the cops couldn't bother him? I remember telling some guy that MLK was actually arrested like 50 times and they seemed actually surprised.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:29 PM
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What the fuck is the pit for if not for shouting at people you disagree with? Jesus you're fucking dumb.
Sorry. I'll just go back to my usual types of threads I post in - I'm not really a pit kind of poster, it is true.

It may in fact be because I lack the intelligence required to engage in this high level type of discourse, I can accept that.

Last edited by Mr. Nylock; 05-24-2015 at 08:33 PM.
  #41  
Old 05-24-2015, 10:11 PM
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Is it really what's happening ? I figured the draw of the show was in the same vein as Duck Dynasty or Honey Booboo, Sister Wives or, hell, even the Osbournes back in the day (and on a different network), i.e. "lookit the freaks !"
Duck Dynasty is not remotely a "look at the freaks" show. It's not my cuppa tea, but it presents itself as a family values show. It has storylines and themes and even a narrator telling a story, one that is supposed to represent the real life of these entrepreneurs.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:33 PM
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The Borgias had family values. So did the Romanovs, the Tudors. At its base, family values are little more uplifting than the Darwinism of the preying mantis or the fruit fly.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:04 AM
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In Acey's defense, the guy is retarded. Like, legitimately. So the guy's actually doing pretty well from a functional standpoint, all things considered. Cut the poor guy some slack. He's trying.
  #44  
Old 05-25-2015, 01:34 AM
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In Acey's defense, the guy is retarded. Like, legitimately. So the guy's actually doing pretty well from a functional standpoint, all things considered. Cut the poor guy some slack. He's trying.
I don't remember him ever saying such a thing. He's just a gullible idiot who gets all of his news from The Daily Mail.
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:45 AM
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In large part I can agree with that, but there is always this idea in my head that all opinions should be allowed a voice.

Just because all opinions should be allowed a voice doesn't mean the rest of us can't say how we feel about those opinions.

And even if he's allowed his own opinions, ace certainly isn't entitled to his own facts -- he claimed many things that were untrue, and ignored people who corrected him on it.

This isn't the first time he's pulled this kind of shit. His comments were fucked up and he's so full of shit the toilet's jealous.
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:06 AM
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His comments...revealed he knew nothing about the subject yet kept writing about it.
This will be aceplace's epitaph.
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:22 AM
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Duck Dynasty is not remotely a "look at the freaks" show. It's not my cuppa tea, but it presents itself as a family values show. It has storylines and themes and even a narrator telling a story, one that is supposed to represent the real life of these entrepreneurs.
Phil has said however that there are a lot of situations that are planned out, and that the family act along with "their little skits", so it's kind of a guided improv show. They're being themselves going along with the scenarios placed before them.

Where did this detail of one of the girls being groped or whatever being only five years old come from? I figured they might be the older daughters - which is sick but not SICK!!!!

There are two extremes in this whole thing- those who want to downplay or even exonerate Josh Duggar's abuses & his parents' bad handling of such, and those who want to see the whole family publically disgraced & destroyed, regardless of the sisters involved who are actively part of the family.
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriarTed View Post
Where did this detail of one of the girls being groped or whatever being only five years old come from?
One of the victims is still a minor, and the incident happened in 2002 or 2003.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 05-25-2015 at 02:28 AM.
  #49  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:58 AM
FriarTed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Oh, and BTW, Christian fundamentalism is NOT two-thousand years old. It's only a little over one-hundred years old.
Yeah, but it was a reaction to the theological liberalism that had been developing throughout the Enlightenment. Up until the 1700s, pretty much all organized Christianity, whether it be Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, leaned fundamentalist.
  #50  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:08 AM
aceplace57 is offline
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I see my comments about Josh Duggar drew some heated attention.

I feel very strongly that what a juvenile does is wiped clean when they become an adult. It's a basic concept of the juvenile courts that all records are sealed. Giving the person a fresh start in life. I know Josh didn't get prosecuted. He should have been, and then the juvenile court judge could have ordered long term therapy for Josh, and professional counseling for the victims. But thats old water under the bridge. The statue of limitations has long ago expired. Dragging this incident up now is simply a way to destroy and permanently discredit him and the entire Duggar family because of their religious beliefs and political activism. It's also traumatizing his victims all over again. Forcing them to relive the horror of what happened twelve years ago. But no one cares about that. They simply want to blindly hate the adult man for something terrible he did as a young teen 12 years ago.

Enough. I know my opinion is unpopular. So be it. But lets be clear. I find what Josh did morally repugnant and sickening. I can only hope that he's not victimized anyone else. If evidence of any adult crime emerges than he should be imprisoned for a long time. But I won't join in and pile on the hate for Josh's troubled childhood unless evidence of any adult crimes emerge. If he's really a pedo or sexual predator there will be a long list of victims throughout the past 12 years.

I suggest reading some books on criminal rehabilitation. Society made the decision to shift away from vengeance based prison sentencing to a focus on rehabilitation and forgiveness. The juvenile courts and criminal rehabilitation programs are one of our country's biggest achievements in the early to mid 20th century. It wasn't done entirely from compassion or kindness. It's known that vengeance based, harsh prison sentences don't prevent recidivism. A new approach had to be found.

Here are two books I've read and found quite informative. There are others that I read many years ago. But these are two recent ones that I found informative. The Gideon book is a textbook and isn't light reading. I spent over a year working my way through it.

Balanced discussion on the successes and failures of criminal rehabilitation. The chapter on sexual offenders is very good.
Rethinking Corrections: Rehabilitation, Reentry, and Reintegration Lior Gideon and Hung-En Sung

This is a very good life story of a former career criminal. A fast read because its so fascinating.
Choose to do Right: A Proven Path to Criminal Rehabilitation by Andrew E Matson

Finally, the books that originally sparked my interest in rehabilitating juveniles back in my high school years. The story of gang leader Nicky Cruz is fascinating and it clearly shows how a troubled teen can reform and lead a responsible adult life.
Run Baby Run by Nicky Cruz
too get another perspective of his story... read
The Cross and the Switchblade David Wilkerson and Elizabeth Sherrill

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-25-2015 at 04:11 AM.
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