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  #101  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:21 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
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I assumed SciFiSam was kidding. ("If it falls on a Sunday"?)
  #102  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:25 PM
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Are there any times when Easter Sunday doesn't fall on a Sunday? Admittedly, there are a number of holidays celebrated the week before Easter - Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and such - which are rarely celebrated by Americans (Holy Monday would be the Monday before Easter - is it possible they meant that one?). But even in the Orthodox tradition, Easter is celebrated on a Sunday.
Yes, I phrased that badly. But in the UK, if a bank holiday (public holiday) falls on a weekend day then the next Monday is a day off, and Easter Monday is a day off in itself. So, for example, if New Year's Day falls on a Saturday, the next Monday is still a bank holiday.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:34 AM
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Yes, I phrased that badly. But in the UK, if a bank holiday (public holiday) falls on a weekend day then the next Monday is a day off, and Easter Monday is a day off in itself. So, for example, if New Year's Day falls on a Saturday, the next Monday is still a bank holiday.
Thanks, I did not know that!
  #104  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:09 AM
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Are there any times when Easter Sunday doesn't fall on a Sunday? Admittedly, there are a number of holidays celebrated the week before Easter - Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and such - which are rarely celebrated by Americans (Holy Monday would be the Monday before Easter - is it possible they meant that one?). But even in the Orthodox tradition, Easter is celebrated on a Sunday.
woooooooooosh....
  #105  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:34 AM
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Easter Monday is a day off in itself.
Do you guys also get Boxing Day off nowadays or has it become one of those "everything goes on sale" says? The former Crown of Aragon gets both off; back when Pentecostes was celebrated on the actual day, the day after it as well.
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  #106  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:03 AM
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Do you guys also get Boxing Day off nowadays or has it become one of those "everything goes on sale" says? The former Crown of Aragon gets both off; back when Pentecostes was celebrated on the actual day, the day after it as well.
Boxing day is a Bank Holiday so if someone has to work they will get time off in lieu and possibly additional pay. Not every shop does Boxing Day sales, in my city it's the big shopping centre only. In practice large sections of the workforce are off from Christmas Day to the 2nd December, either because they are using their holiday days or because their workplace shuts down anyway as no one will be there The major exceptions are essential services, of course, and retail.
  #107  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wevets View Post
Are there any times when Easter Sunday doesn't fall on a Sunday? Admittedly, there are a number of holidays celebrated the week before Easter - Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and such - which are rarely celebrated by Americans (Holy Monday would be the Monday before Easter - is it possible they meant that one?). But even in the Orthodox tradition, Easter is celebrated on a Sunday.
Yes, I phrased that badly. But in the UK, if a bank holiday (public holiday) falls on a weekend day then the next Monday is a day off, and Easter Monday is a day off in itself. So, for example, if New Year's Day falls on a Saturday, the next Monday is still a bank holiday.
That's also true in the US but most of the holidays are fixed days of the week. (Most are on Mondays and Thanksgiving is Thursday.)
  #108  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:30 AM
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In practice large sections of the workforce are off from Christmas Day to the 2nd December, either because they are using their holiday days or because their workplace shuts down anyway as no one will be there
By my reckoning that works out to 343 days of holiday per year.

Last edited by psychonaut; 09-22-2019 at 09:31 AM.
  #109  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:50 AM
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I work at a hotel. We have security guards. Every once in a while we need to replace one. About 80% of them quit after the first night when they realize the have to do actual security guard stuff - like handle noise complaints or walk the property - instead of sitting at a desk and pushing a buzzer. And the company tells them our requirements in advance!
  #110  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:08 PM
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I don't have a great example handy but my wife has one.

She's worked in biostatistics in the pharma industry for twenty years, Neither she nor anyone she knows will hire someone from academia (obviously they hire educated people, just not people who WORK in education.) The reason is simple; they're insanely lazy. She has tried them out, and know other managers who have, and people who have worked a long time in academia simply will not work forty hours a week. They will start taking afternoons off, days off, often without telling anyone, literally in the first week, and no amount of coaching will compel them to work full time.

A few years ago I joined a pharma company too, and totally without me bringing it up, my boss mentioned he no longer hired anyone from academia, because they just will not show up to work. It's as predictable as the sun rising in the East.
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  #111  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:23 PM
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I work at a hotel. We have security guards. Every once in a while we need to replace one. About 80% of them quit after the first night when they realize the have to do actual security guard stuff - like handle noise complaints or walk the property - instead of sitting at a desk and pushing a buzzer. And the company tells them our requirements in advance!
Ooh yeah, I forgot about that one. I worked security for a bit and got one guy fired after his first shift. It was site security while setting up for a festival; really simple, the site manager was staying in a caravan onsite, so we were literally there to make sure no-one nicked the generators or other equipment while he slept. All we had to do was stay awake and present, maybe have the odd leg stretch and 'patrol' but that was optional as the site was either pitch black or spotlit, so we'd be able to see any lights or people near the valuables. We were even allowed to bring our cars onsite and sit in them reading or watching stuff.

An hour in, the new guy had not just nodded off in his car, he'd full on gone to bed. He'd reclined the seat right back, taken his shoes off and was hiding from the lights under his coat, sound asleep. I turfed the lazy git out, but he genuinely didn't think he was doing anything wrong. He apparently always slept on overnight security shifts, because nothing ever happened, and as soon as I walked off, he happily went straight back to sleep
  #112  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:42 PM
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This thread has been cathartic for me. The new lawyer I was training for the past two weeks just quit on Friday, and I'm so relieved I nearly danced for joy. (He probably would have been fired eventually, but it would've taken a while, and I would've had to keep working with him in the meantime.) His deficiencies weren't nearly as egregious as most of what's been described here so far, but he sucked at legal reasoning, expected to work 9-5 (uncommon in the profession, and he was explicitly told during the interview, and again by me on the first day of training, that 12-hour days are the norm at least for the first 6 months), and felt uncomfortable defending drug addicts (we defend parents accused of abusing or neglecting their children; the drug users are the easiest clients to sympathize with!) Actually, I'm not sure if he was being honest about that last one, since it only came up in his one-on-one with the boss, when he was being counseled for repeatedly failing to meet deadlines. Pretty much all the attorneys in the office come to me instead of the boss when they're afraid they've screwed up or are about to screw up; whether it's because of my personality or just because I don't have the power to fire them, the consensus seems to be that I'm the more approachable person, so I'm skeptical that this guy was afraid to voice those concerns to me first. But either way, not gonna work out in this line of work.
  #113  
Old 09-22-2019, 04:37 PM
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I don't have a great example handy but my wife has one.

She's worked in biostatistics in the pharma industry for twenty years, Neither she nor anyone she knows will hire someone from academia (obviously they hire educated people, just not people who WORK in education.) The reason is simple; they're insanely lazy. She has tried them out, and know other managers who have, and people who have worked a long time in academia simply will not work forty hours a week. They will start taking afternoons off, days off, often without telling anyone, literally in the first week, and no amount of coaching will compel them to work full time.

A few years ago I joined a pharma company too, and totally without me bringing it up, my boss mentioned he no longer hired anyone from academia, because they just will not show up to work. It's as predictable as the sun rising in the East.
Man, I'm in the wrong academic discipline. A week under 50 hours is unusual.
  #114  
Old 09-22-2019, 04:37 PM
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By my reckoning that works out to 343 days of holiday per year.
Oh Lord I meant 2nd January
  #115  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:03 PM
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I don't have a great example handy but my wife has one.

She's worked in biostatistics in the pharma industry for twenty years, Neither she nor anyone she knows will hire someone from academia (obviously they hire educated people, just not people who WORK in education.) The reason is simple; they're insanely lazy. She has tried them out, and know other managers who have, and people who have worked a long time in academia simply will not work forty hours a week. They will start taking afternoons off, days off, often without telling anyone, literally in the first week, and no amount of coaching will compel them to work full time.

A few years ago I joined a pharma company too, and totally without me bringing it up, my boss mentioned he no longer hired anyone from academia, because they just will not show up to work. It's as predictable as the sun rising in the East.
There has only been one academic who has joined my team in recent years (and he works really hard), so I can't vouch for your claim. But I totally believe it. People who bail the academic ship tend not to be very competitive (raises hand). They aren't the kind of folks who enjoying putting in long days at the office. So it can be a big adjustment to go from the pressure cooker known as the tenure track to the "real world". I can see how someone might go crazy with all the new freedom in their life and never regain their senses.

Also, it can be an adjustment going from an environment where you don't have to clock your hours and where you can spend all day surfing the web to an environment where you're comings and goings are noticed, along with what you do on your computer.
  #116  
Old 09-23-2019, 06:29 PM
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In parochial schools, you got the next day off. (So you could eat all the candy, and get sick at home, not in school, I guess.) And it was pretty common either to get out early on Halloween, or to spend the last half of the school day in a class party.

So I can see why a lot of people think of Halloween as a holiday. Almost as big as Christmas.

(Plus, to a computer guy, Oct 31 = Dec 25.)
That's because Nov 1 is All Saint's Day
  #117  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:06 PM
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When I was working in Contract Compliance at my last job, we had a new hire show up and leave at the lunch break ... this is for a job where we generally worked with boilerplate contracts, faxing them to the various people and getting them back, and sorting them into files - I think I only modified seriously 5 contracts in a 1 year period, and almost never had any problem calls with yelling customers unlike working in a call center [I once had to call the security director of a major banking chain to let him know that one branch in a major city had been left unlocked and unalarmed between 6 pm and 0230 when it rolled onto my alert screen, that was the time the bank was to be re-alarmed by the cleaning crew, their cleaning deadline I guess one could call it. Cleaning crew never actually showed up, which was an issue in that branch.]
  #118  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:47 AM
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Person doing job for eight years. Interested in that job and no more. Department shrinks to a team of two from a team of five or more over the years. Had her report to a new manager, as some other processes and legal requirements meant she needed to be managed by someone with proper authority over taxes and certain financial standards now in place.

Your job is not changing. However, due diligence requires that you work in X department for a manager trained and certified in Y. You get better support. Your job: Not changing. Intro to new boss: Your job is not changing. Everyone: Your job is not changing.

Goes home, writes pages-long email about needing a new job description, and doesn't understand how she will have time to learn new job. "I'm too busy for my job now!"

From all angles: Your job is not changing. Because we operate in X environment now financially, we must be diligent and have you report to a new manager.

I NEED MY NEW JOB DESCRIPTION! I'M ALREADY TOO BUSY!
  #119  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:04 PM
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Wow, I have seen this thread all along and have so many anecdotes to add but I'm afraid to start for fear I couldn't stop!
One I've seen more than once is a new employee starting, working a few weeks or days, not showing up for days or weeks and then clocking in for work one morning as if they thought no one would notice.
  #120  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:17 PM
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Wow, I have seen this thread all along and have so many anecdotes to add but I'm afraid to start for fear I couldn't stop!
One I've seen more than once is a new employee starting, working a few weeks or days, not showing up for days or weeks and then clocking in for work one morning as if they thought no one would notice.
I once had a tenant who worked three days at a new restaurant, then was sick for four days. Actually sick, not goofing off, but he didn't call. Dude was surprised when he went back to work and didn't have a job.
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  #121  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:16 AM
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We had a co-worker who'd been on the job a couple of years and called in sick one day, and never returned or called again, didn't respond to HR's calls or certified letters. Months later, we get a call from the security desk, where she's throwing a fit demanding to know why her employee ID won't let her in the building. It's explained that she doesn't work here anymore. "You can't fire me - I called in sick!"
  #122  
Old 09-27-2019, 08:59 AM
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Place I used to work at, the lead trainer was named Cheri. It was a customer support site which meant there was a lot of turnover* so there's be a class of new-hires every other Monday. After giving them their HR packets Cheri would them lead them on a tour of the site (Over there's one set of bathrooms, here's the galley with a couple refrigerators, microwave, and coffee) -- we called them "Cheri's ducklings." One time she left the classroom with thirteen, and got back with twelve; apparently someone had decided the job really wasn't for him. Not sure why because part of the interview process was about an hour paired up with a working agent to see what typical calls looked like.

*It was proud that the annual turnover was only 80%
  #123  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:39 PM
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I work in a 911 center, dispatching police/fire&ems units. We would get new employees and they would be shocked that they would have to work on holidays. I was convinced that the bosses were just doing a poor job of informing these people. Then I get promoted. Our hiring process involves a test, 2 interviews, a background check and finally your first day at work. I make sure we mention the 24/7 job and that weekends and holidays are required of everyone; it is mentioned at the test, and both interviews. People are still dumbfounded when a holiday comes around. I added a sheet to the information packet you have to fill out for the background. It explains our 24/7 schedule, holidays, weekends etc. You have to initial by each bullet point and sign the bottom....YUP still shocked that they have to work them.

And I agree that this has been a great thread. I read though all the posts and am glad that I am not alone!
  #124  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:24 PM
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This isn't specific candidates, but a general thing brought up by the previous post: lots of people seem to have trouble understanding that others may not necessarily be available at a time that's outside whatever the local equivalent of "9 to 5" is.

How the fuck is there so many people who have problems with that when their own working hours are not 9 to 5, I hope I'll never understand. Because I get the feeling that if I ever become stupid enough to understand it, I'll be on my way to a record-breaking case of dementia.
  #125  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:58 PM
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It doesn't matter if you were on your way to an important meeting, the company will not pay for your speeding or parking tickets.
When I was younger and significantly dumber, I thought it was bullshit that you weren't paid for the time you spent commuting to work.
  #126  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:12 PM
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When I was younger and significantly dumber, I thought it was bullshit that you weren't paid for the time you spent commuting to work.
It is bullshit. The act of driving to work isn't something you'd do if not for the job. And as a salaried person I consider the time spent commuting part of what they're paying me for. (Which means that the shorter my commute is the higher my wage is, functionally speaking.)

People paid by the hour from clock-in to clock-out should certainly consider the commute when considering how much they'd have to be paid to take the job.
  #127  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:34 PM
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In some countries, commute times/distances above a certain level are considered part of worked hours. How good the country in general and a given company in particular are about that kind of issue varies, as does which solutions they come up with when the commute would be considered long. My last client had a lot of factories that were close to each other but far enough to go above the limit and if someone needed to go to a different factory they'd go to their usual one, clock in, take the car the company had rented for them and go to the other factory.
  #128  
Old 09-28-2019, 05:15 AM
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It is bullshit. The act of driving to work isn't something you'd do if not for the job.
Yes, it is. You'd be going to a different job, but you'd still be going somewhere. And the job you picked, commute and all, was your choice (just like where you live in relation to it). The company can't be held responsible when someone living in Milwaukee takes a job in Chicago - that person decided spending 3 hours on the train every day was okay. (Yep, I knew someone that did that for about 15 years.)
  #129  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:40 AM
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Between telecommuting and straight-up working from home ... no, I wouldn't necessarily be driving/commuting anywhere else.

But U.S. employers didn't pay folks to commute back in the 50s (the way they paid health benefits, as a way of attracting workers, thus entrenching healthcare as something unemployed and self-employed folks can't have) so they sure as shit ain't starting now.
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  #130  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:41 AM
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I would mighty pissed if my employer started paying people for commute time. There are some folks that live 50+ miles from the office because they want to live out in the country. While folks like me have chosen to live within a few miles of the office so we don't have to make ourselves miserable commuting. Why should the first group get extra compensation over the second? No one is forcing them to live so far away.

I do think compensation for travel is owed to on-demand workers who get called in at the last minute only to be turned away once they show up. They should at least get compensated for the time and cost it took for them to get there.
  #131  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:49 AM
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...as a salaried person I consider the time spent commuting part of what they're paying me for.
Let's say I live three hours from my workplace. Is it O.K. if I work for only two hours after I arrive at work? After all, I "put in" a total of eight hours...
  #132  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:57 AM
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If I were an employer who was forced to pay for commute time, I would only hire people who lived within a couple of zip codes. And I would fire anyone who decides to move to one I believe to be too far away.
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Old 09-28-2019, 11:06 AM
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I can see getting clock time for commuting if you take transportation that allows you to work while travelling, including self-driving cars when they become completely self-driving. But if I were an employer I'd be adamantly against paying people for their commute time if they weren't actually working, with the possible exception of if I moved my business location to a place which is an over 15 minute drive from the previous location, and then it would only be for the first year and it would be more likely to take the form of allowing a few extra minutes leeway in arriving and departing rather than paying people for driving.
  #134  
Old 09-28-2019, 11:26 AM
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Paying for commuting time for someone "working while traveling" sounds like paying people to "work from home", which often turns into paying someone to goof off and watch TV.

BTW, has the original thread been well and truly hijacked?

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 09-28-2019 at 11:28 AM.
  #135  
Old 09-29-2019, 04:38 AM
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Paying for commuting time for someone "working while traveling" sounds like paying people to "work from home", which often turns into paying someone to goof off and watch TV.

BTW, has the original thread been well and truly hijacked?
I don't know - the idea certainly fits with the original intent of the thread: unrealistic expectations regarding work.
  #136  
Old 09-29-2019, 05:30 AM
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This isn't specific candidates, but a general thing brought up by the previous post: lots of people seem to have trouble understanding that others may not necessarily be available at a time that's outside whatever the local equivalent of "9 to 5" is.

How the fuck is there so many people who have problems with that when their own working hours are not 9 to 5, I hope I'll never understand. Because I get the feeling that if I ever become stupid enough to understand it, I'll be on my way to a record-breaking case of dementia.
I work night audit - by choice. I'm awake, it's quieter and I'm good at it. Hotels are open 24/365, with some exceptions. And what do I hear every Christmas Eve or Christmas Day "It's so awful you have to work today!" Buddy, if you really feel that way, why are you checking into a hotel and making someone work?

Still, I get paid to wear antlers on Christmas Eve. This makes me happy.
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:14 AM
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In some countries, commute times/distances above a certain level are considered part of worked hours. How good the country in general and a given company in particular are about that kind of issue varies, as does which solutions they come up with when the commute would be considered long. My last client had a lot of factories that were close to each other but far enough to go above the limit and if someone needed to go to a different factory they'd go to their usual one, clock in, take the car the company had rented for them and go to the other factory.
Are you talking about paying for travel to a different location on a temporary basis- like I was hired to work in Location A and I'm temporarily assigned to Location B so the time it takes me to travel from Location A to Location B is on the clock? In my experience , that's very common. But I know a lot of people who have 1.5 to 2 hour one-way commutes to their regular work location based on their own choice of where to live/work - are you saying there are countries where that would be considered "time worked" ?
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Old 09-29-2019, 12:12 PM
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Are you talking about paying for travel to a different location on a temporary basis- like I was hired to work in Location A and I'm temporarily assigned to Location B so the time it takes me to travel from Location A to Location B is on the clock? In my experience , that's very common. But I know a lot of people who have 1.5 to 2 hour one-way commutes to their regular work location based on their own choice of where to live/work - are you saying there are countries where that would be considered "time worked" ?
The second, yes, but with a "distance and time" bar, not merely a time bar: that is, if you take 2h to commute because you live in a place with shitty traffic or you choose a shitty route but you're less than 70km from your job, you're SOL*; if you take 1h-1'5h to commute but you're 90km away, you're supposed to come to some arrangement so you don't need to spend so much time commuting every day. Now, normally such a case is temporary: either the worker is going to a particularly distant location (pretty common in construction trades, for example), or they're some sort of contractor. And solutions along the lines of "week commute" are more common that "you're going to be on the road 4h every day", simply because whether you count that as time worked or you don't, people who spend 4h on the road every day and whose job doesn't consist on being on the road tend to not be very productive. Most managers prefer employees who don't arrive to the office with a case of "too much road rage and not enough caffeine".

Once you put it in terms of "people who live too far from work will be week-commuters", there are whole trades based on that model, from construction jobs to IT to process engineer to.... For jobs which have a lot of contractors, one of the things that's often different between "the outsiders" and "the insiders" is that the contractors are expected to travel on their own time whereas the insiders' travel time is counted as being on-the-clock+: companies which do this tend to have problems holding onto contractors (it's usually the kind of company which systematically treats outsiders like the enemy).



* I know several instances of companies which used to have their main offices in a downtown(ish) location, with the immense majority of employees commuting via public transit in reasonable times; when possible, employees specifically chose their homes so they'd have easy commutes. Then the company moved three forests beyond the ass-end of nowhere and the People With Chauffeurs couldn't understand why the employees were grumpy about having to drive to work (no public transit to that place, or only one line which didn't go anywhere near the old location) and about taking so long; bonus points to the company which, having over 800 employees in that office complex, only took 40 parking spaces in the new location (that was how many people drove to work previously). But! Since that new place wasn't more than 70km away from anybody's home, people didn't have the right to any kind of compensation or time-adjustment and what eventually happened was that employees left in droves.

+ Which btw is illegal. Not counting insiders time as on-the-clock, but treating insiders and contractors differently for purposes of anything other than how they get paid.
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Last edited by Nava; 09-29-2019 at 12:16 PM.
  #139  
Old 09-29-2019, 12:53 PM
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The second, yes, but with a "distance and time" bar, not merely a time bar: that is, if you take 2h to commute because you live in a place with shitty traffic or you choose a shitty route but you're less than 70km from your job, you're SOL*; if you take 1h-1'5h to commute but you're 90km away, you're supposed to come to some arrangement so you don't need to spend so much time commuting every day. Now, normally such a case is temporary: either the worker is going to a particularly distant location (pretty common in construction trades, for example), or they're some sort of contractor. And solutions along the lines of "week commute" are more common that "you're going to be on the road 4h every day", simply because whether you count that as time worked or you don't, people who spend 4h on the road every day and whose job doesn't consist on being on the road tend to not be very productive.
You've confused me little with week-commuters ( which I assume means people who commute weekly rather than every day ) and employers moving to the ass-end of nowhere - and I assume that the people with the 1.5-2 hour commute who are "supposed to come to some arrangement" are not being paid for 3-4 hours of commuting each day. Let me give you a more specific example of what I'm asking about - I know someone who commuted 77 miles ( which I think is about 123 km) each way for over 10 years. At the time he traveled, that was at least 2 hours each way, maybe 2.5. His office didn't move at any point - he simply took a job that was 77 miles away from where he chose to live.* Are you saying there are countries where that would be considered "time worked"





* I assume he took the job 77 miles away from home because that was the only opening at the time. But over the course of those ten years, there were openings in offices closer to home - but he chose not to transfer.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:58 PM
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Paying for commuting time for someone "working while traveling" sounds like paying people to "work from home", which often turns into paying someone to goof off and watch TV.
. . .
IME people are either going to work or goof off, no matter where they do it. Some of my most productive employees and colleagues have worked from home. Some of the worst goofs have worked in office. In two cases, moving non-productive employees from home to office only served to disrupt their coworkers.

Self-discipline and work ethic are not location dependent.

It is true, however, that some managers do not know how to track at-home employee's productivity. In the office these are the clock watchers, harassing their most productive people when the traffic makes them five minutes late. Generally speaking, they operate at the lowest possible level, more as supervisors than as managers. It is necessary for companies to provide training to all middle management on how to track, support and motivate remote workers to keep them engaged.
  #141  
Old 09-30-2019, 04:02 PM
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Let's say I live three hours from my workplace. Is it O.K. if I work for only two hours after I arrive at work? After all, I "put in" a total of eight hours...
Um, as a salaried person, I'm expected to put in however the hell much work my employer wants me to put in, up to and possibly over 170 hours per week. That's how being salaried works. I've been fortunate that my workplace only expects 40 on-site hours; I know others in my career that have had to put in 50, 60, or 80. So if it takes you three hours to get to your workplace, your office expects you to devote (at least) 14 hours per day towards getting your work done, because they expect you both to put in the hours at the office, and to get to the office too.

And seriously people, whether or not you think your workplace is paying you to haul your butt to work, it is paying you to do so regardless. The upshot of this is not that you get paid more - it's that you get paid less per hour if your work regimen includes six hours of "unpaid" commute time. If this effective decrease in your wage drops it enough that you feel you're not getting paid enough to make the trip to work, you'll quit - the same way you would if you suddenly learned that you would be paid a substantial amount less that you thought you would be.

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IME people are either going to work or goof off, no matter where they do it. Some of my most productive employees and colleagues have worked from home. Some of the worst goofs have worked in office. In two cases, moving non-productive employees from home to office only served to disrupt their coworkers.

Self-discipline and work ethic are not location dependent.
This is not necessarily the case. I work best with a distraction-free work environment. My home, on the other hand, is entirely devoted to distracting me. That's literally the purpose of everything there. So working from home is nigh certain to kill my productivity - because I have arranged my work environment to maximize my productivity.
  #142  
Old 09-30-2019, 04:09 PM
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I could never successfully work from home because I would need the internet to do so, and the internet is where the porn is.
  #143  
Old 09-30-2019, 08:30 PM
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Um, as a salaried person, I'm expected to put in however the hell much work my employer wants me to put in, up to and possibly over 170 hours per week.
. . .

This is not necessarily the case. I work best with a distraction-free work environment. My home, on the other hand, is entirely devoted to distracting me. That's literally the purpose of everything there. So working from home is nigh certain to kill my productivity - because I have arranged my work environment to maximize my productivity.
Bolding mine - that'd be one heckuva trick. LOL! I suppose you meant 70?

Re: distraction-free environment: Sure, but if your job depended upon your getting it done from home,mightn't you set up a small corner or closet where you could sit and only see your desk and computer? Just by being the type who s introspective enough to know this about yourself, I'm betting you are also the type who would find a way to get your work done.

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I could never successfully work from home because I would need the internet to do so, and the internet is where the porn is.
I mean, how long does that really take though? Most people can . . . erm . . . clear their minds in about 5 minutes and be ready to get some work done.
  #144  
Old 10-01-2019, 05:07 AM
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I know someone who commuted 77 miles ( which I think is about 123 km) each way for over 10 years. At the time he traveled, that was at least 2 hours each way, maybe 2.5. His office didn't move at any point - he simply took a job that was 77 miles away from where he chose to live.* Are you saying there are countries where that would be considered "time worked"
Since he's more than 70km* away, yes, there are countries where it should be considered "time worked" ("federal level" law). But, in those same countries, people normally try to come up with an arrangement which avoids the long commute.

And yes, week-commuters are people who commute for the whole week, spending 3-4 nights away from home (many have 3x12 or 4x10 work hours, or work from home one day per week).


* Specific number from the specific legislation of Spain; I understand other countries also go for the same breakpoint but it's second hand info. The Spanish law, I've actually read it.
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Last edited by Nava; 10-01-2019 at 05:09 AM.
  #145  
Old 10-01-2019, 05:10 AM
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Bolding mine - that'd be one heckuva trick. LOL! I suppose you meant 70?
Or a graduate student...
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  #146  
Old 10-01-2019, 05:25 AM
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Paying for commuting time for someone "working while traveling" sounds like paying people to "work from home", which often turns into paying someone to goof off and watch TV.
I'm surprised you didn't work in the usual "sipping lattes" sneer.
  #147  
Old 10-01-2019, 07:02 AM
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I don't have any personal stories, but here's a story of a Spanish man who skipped work for SIX YEARS and still got paid.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/spanis...still-got-paid
  #148  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:58 AM
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Or a graduate student...
. . . in experimental physics perhaps? (1 week = 168 hours)
  #149  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:22 PM
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That's also true in the US but most of the holidays are fixed days of the week. (Most are on Mondays and Thanksgiving is Thursday.)
Thanksgiving is the outlier there, but the other fixed-day holidays are all the ones created by the government. The ones that were adopted by holiday calendars because everyone is going to take them off to celebrate anyway (July 4, Christmas, New Years) happen when they happen.
  #150  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:44 PM
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Unless you work in a business owned by Orthodox Jewish people. Then you get the first two days and last two days of Pesach (Passover), two days of Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kipper. Then you work in all the other days for time and a half (double time on December 25th).
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