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  #251  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:11 PM
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  #252  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:20 PM
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So I take it then that you don't believe the left regards Republicans as racist?
There are elements of the left that regard elements of the Republicans as racist. There are also elements of the left that believe elements of the Republicans deliberately turn a blind eye to the racist (and other extremist) elements of their constituency.

Both sides tend to stereotype the opposition as an amalgam of the worst traits they see.

Thing is, Republicans are just more resistant to change by definition. That's one of the things that makes a conservative a conservative. One of the other things is viewing any self-criticism of the party in open dialogue a betrayal of party. Whereas within the liberal Democrat side, we know are leaders are spineless and wishy washy and have little problem with self-criticism.
  #253  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:21 PM
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Anybody wanna offer $10 for every instance I can find on this board where one of the board's lefties asserts that conservatives/Republicans/Tea Partiers are racist and not a single other leftie disputes it? Or where I can point to leftie politicians making the same claim?
  #254  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:22 PM
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Anybody wanna offer $10 for every instance I can find on this board where one of the board's lefties asserts that conservatives/Republicans/Tea Partiers are racist and not a single other leftie disputes it? Or where I can point to leftie politicians making the same claim?
Will it be discounted if the person being accuse of racism is actually being racist?
  #255  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Anybody wanna offer $10 for every instance I can find on this board where one of the board's lefties asserts that conservatives/Republicans/Tea Partiers are racist and not a single other leftie disputes it? Or where I can point to leftie politicians making the same claim?
I'll make it $20 if it gets rid of you for a while.
  #256  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:25 PM
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Anybody wanna offer $10 for every instance I can find on this board where one of the board's lefties asserts that conservatives/Republicans/Tea Partiers are racist and not a single other leftie disputes it? Or where I can point to leftie politicians making the same claim?
What are you offering in return?
  #257  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:31 PM
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Don't ask that! Just don't!
  #258  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:34 PM
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My post above was directed at Jack Batty, btw.

And, nope, Biggirl, no discounts. I'm not talking about instances where a specific person gets called a racist, primarily because real racism rarely has anything to do with those types of accusations. I'm talking about the same broad brush accusations that get hurled against conservatives around here all the time without a hint of the hair splitting and equivocation about percentages that has suddenly erupted in this thread.
  #259  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:41 PM
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We would need someone to make judgment calls, someone of strict impartiality and a sober, clear-eyed viewpoint. Have you any suggestions?
  #260  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:49 PM
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My post above was directed at Jack Batty, btw.

And, nope, Biggirl, no discounts. I'm not talking about instances where a specific person gets called a racist, primarily because real racism rarely has anything to do with those types of accusations. I'm talking about the same broad brush accusations that get hurled against conservatives around here all the time without a hint of the hair splitting and equivocation about percentages that has suddenly erupted in this thread.
Well then, fuck no. I can find countless examples of Tea Partyers, Republicans and conservatives who get called racists with no rebuttals from anyone because they being racist too. Will you pay me for that?
  #261  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:57 PM
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We would need someone to make judgment calls, someone of strict impartiality and a sober, clear-eyed viewpoint. Have you any suggestions?
I nominate myself.
  #262  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:57 PM
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I think the problem is the general deficit in the quality of employment for domestic workers, as matters currently stand in California.

Your average babysitter for a "let's go to a movie this Friday night" casual gig is not typically going to be over eighteen. That's a high school girl's (or boy's) job.

Senator Lamalfa is being disingenuous and misdirectional. Also, I find it charming that he has no comments enabled on his page.
As not being a CA-ian, I will take your word for the situation for domestic workers. I was not aware that they were not included in the general employment laws currently in effect. Certainly not an issue I am stirred about - just seemed stupid and overreaching upon initial viewing. I've been corrected - ignorance fought!
  #263  
Old 09-29-2011, 05:08 PM
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My post above was directed at Jack Batty, btw.

And, nope, Biggirl, no discounts. I'm not talking about instances where a specific person gets called a racist, primarily because real racism rarely has anything to do with those types of accusations. I'm talking about the same broad brush accusations that get hurled against conservatives around here all the time without a hint of the hair splitting and equivocation about percentages that has suddenly erupted in this thread.
Will it include all the times DT says it and everyone ignores him?
  #264  
Old 09-29-2011, 05:37 PM
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Will it include all the times DT says it and everyone ignores him?
If we on the left tried to distance ourselves from DT every time he said something bizarre we wouldn't have any time to characterize the right as racist.
  #265  
Old 09-29-2011, 06:20 PM
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The irony here is just amazing.

An actress that is deemed "left wing" states that
Quote:
Herman Cain is probably well liked by some of the Republicans because it hides the racist elements of the Republican party.
Bolding mine. She is talking about SOME of the Republicans, and ELEMENTS within the party.

As a rebuttal, we are treated to the antics of Starving Artist, who deems that
Quote:
the left, which, as far as I'm able to determine, is unanimus (sic) in attempting to portray conservatives and Republicans as racist?
Not some of the left. No. All of them. Unanimously. Even the quoted actress did not do this. She portrayed SOME of them supporting the ELEMENTS within the party.

And Starving Artist does not even see this. It's freakin' hilarious!
  #266  
Old 09-29-2011, 06:49 PM
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Yeah, I used to think it was funny too, until I realized he isn't kidding.
  #267  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:23 PM
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I must say it's heartening to see so many - well, a scarce few anyway - of the Straight Dope's finest so utterly anxious to proclaim that it's only 'some' Republicans who are racist. Why, this makes Republicans virtually no different than Democrats in this regard as I know damn well there are Democrats who are racist as I know a few myself. Maybe we could get this acknowledgement made into a sticky and posted at the top of each forum so everyone will be sure, when tempted to make their scurrilous racist accusations toward Republicans, that they take pains to point out that it's only some Republicans who qualify and they all aren't like that.

Myself, I'm thinking there'll be snowball fights in Jerusalem before that happens.
  #268  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:49 PM
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I must say it's heartening to see so many - well, a scarce few anyway - of the Straight Dope's finest so utterly anxious to proclaim that it's only 'some' Republicans who are racist. Why, this makes Republicans virtually no different than Democrats in this regard as I know damn well there are Democrats who are racist as I know a few myself. Maybe we could get this acknowledgement made into a sticky and posted at the top of each forum so everyone will be sure, when tempted to make their scurrilous racist accusations toward Republicans, that they take pains to point out that it's only some Republicans who qualify and they all aren't like that.

Myself, I'm thinking there'll be snowball fights in Jerusalem before that happens.
I have two comments. One: I think when Democrats consider this question, they forget, or just don't know about, all of the reflexive Democrat-voting racists, such as were profiled during the bitter primary battle in Pennsylvania between Obama and Clinton.

Two: even counting these examples, I agree that more racists vote Republican than vote Democratic.
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  #269  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:55 PM
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Well, gee, if you really thought there was some sort of bias against you here on the Boards, you should have said something! Don't stifle it, keep it bottled up inside, your chi will get constipated!

Last edited by elucidator; 09-29-2011 at 07:55 PM.
  #270  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:05 PM
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So I take it then that you don't believe the left regards Republicans as racist?
No. But I am sure you can not understand that is where they live. Where would you think a person who hates blacks would go, to the party who the top guy is black?
They have been welcomed in the Repub Party for decades.

Last edited by gonzomax; 09-29-2011 at 08:05 PM.
  #271  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:13 PM
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Careful. By that logic, Cain winning the nomination would be prima facie evidence that the Republican Party isn't racist.
  #272  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:26 PM
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Careful. By that logic, Cain winning the nomination would be prima facie evidence that the Republican Party isn't racist.
I think we should demand that they prove it by nominating him.
  #273  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:27 PM
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I have two comments. One: I think when Democrats consider this question, they forget, or just don't know about, all of the reflexive Democrat-voting racists, such as were profiled during the bitter primary battle in Pennsylvania between Obama and Clinton.

Two: even counting these examples, I agree that more racists vote Republican than vote Democratic.
I agree on both counts. And I would agree that there are probably more racists who are Rebublican than are Democrat. However I think the vast majority of both parties are not racist to any appreciable degee, and that it's ignorant or self-servingly dishonest for the left to continue to portray Republicans as racists, especially in light of the way people such as Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice and Herman Cain have been welcomed by Republicans nationwide. And I'm confident, as I said before, that as more and more blacks find that they are wecome in Republican politics after all and become elected to office themselves, the left is going to look more and more ridiculous in claiming that the Republicans are racist, as Garofolo does now in claiming that Republican supporters of Herman Cain are racist.
  #274  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:28 PM
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Leaving aside the fact that (as I've already pointed out) you clearly didn't read what she said... how can one person be unanimous, exactly?
How can they not? Unless they are multiple personalities.
  #275  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:48 PM
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It doesn't mean anything when blacks get elected to high leadership in the republican party. They get there because they are willing to be part of the machine that disenfranchises and hurts other minorities, so that makes them "okay", the same way the Sea Monkeys creator is a jew who is welcome in white power groups because he supports their activities financially and by speaking. It also gives them a tactical shield against accusations about their actual racist agenda because they can point to a few minority true-believers who make up a tiny, tiny fraction of their power structure. So it only makes sense to have a few blacks and minorities on hand, people like you will buy into the tokens as proof that they are not a racist organization.

All hate groups will make exceptions for those that support them, it isn't a sign that they aren't hate groups. "Not racist but #1 with racists" is about right.

Last edited by rogerbox; 09-29-2011 at 10:51 PM.
  #276  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:59 AM
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So the Republican party is a hate group now?

Where are all the hair splitters eagerly pointing out that only "some" Republicans are haters?

The fact is that Republicans welcome anyone, black, Hispanic, female, whatever as long as they hold Conservative values. Blacks and other minorities and women are learning more and more that they've been sold a bill of goods by the left and can indeed enter Republican politics and be elected to positions of power, and the more who learn this the more there will be, and the more minority and female voters we'll have, and the more and more you guys will standing on the sidelines, stamping your feet your feet and wailing "But guys, they hate you!"
  #277  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:10 AM
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So the Republican party is a hate group now?
The whole party? No. But by their works shall ye know them.
Quote:
Where are all the hair splitters eagerly pointing out that only "some" Republicans are haters?
Given the time, I'm guessing most of them were asleep. But since you asked so nicely, I'll say it: only some Republicans are haters. Happy?
Quote:
The fact is that Republicans welcome anyone, black, Hispanic, female, whatever as long as they hold Conservative values.
Of course! And gays are welcome as long as they hold the Conservative value of pretending they're not. Atheists are welcome as long as they're willing to praise God. Hispanics are welcome as long as they're willing to show their papers on demand. It's a big tent kind of party. Very friendly folk.
  #278  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:04 AM
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I wil acknowledge that gays and athiests are currently less welcome in the Republican party. But neither of those have to do with race, which was the subject under discussion. And yes, Hispanic who are here legally or who were born here are perfectly welcome in the Republican party. If you want to contend that Republicans are less accepting of people who have knowingly broken the law in order to be here, then you are not talking about race but politics, and there's nothing whatever wrong in expecting people to abide by the law...a consideration that seems to be considerably stronger to the right than to the left. I've always been amazed at the liberal propensity to break the law or champion those who do while at the same time casting scurrilous aspersions upon the character of those who object.
  #279  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:40 AM
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I've always been amazed at the liberal propensity to break the law or champion those who do while at the same time casting scurrilous aspersions upon the character of those who object.
If you oversimplify one direction, I can do so in the other.

Martin Luther King, Jr.'s peaceful protest against segregation violated Alabama law and he was arrested. Eugene "Bull" Connor, Ku Klux Klan member and hateful Alabama law enforcement official, arrested Senator Glen H. Taylor, King, and others. Which of these two do you have more respect for, Starving Artist ?

Yes, this example can be considered an aberration. Nevertheless, right-wingers' fascination with "law and order" is another example of their closedmindedness.
  #280  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:58 AM
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I wil acknowledge that gays and athiests are currently less welcome in the Republican party. But neither of those have to do with race, which was the subject under discussion. And yes, Hispanic who are here legally or who were born here are perfectly welcome in the Republican party. If you want to contend that Republicans are less accepting of people who have knowingly broken the law in order to be here, then you are not talking about race but politics, and there's nothing whatever wrong in expecting people to abide by the law...a consideration that seems to be considerably stronger to the right than to the left. I've always been amazed at the liberal propensity to break the law or champion those who do while at the same time casting scurrilous aspersions upon the character of those who object.
And yet the GOP strategy has often been conspicuous in its focus on targetting the workers rather than the businesses which employ them, despite the fact that if the demand for illegal workers were reduced the workers wouldn't come in the first place. The result is the perception that there is one law for the rich white people and another for the poor brown people. I'm sure somebody somewhere must be looking into it but it never makes the media. Must be that liberal bias.

There is much irony in the situation in that the GOP has, in its excoriation of those who come here for work, simultaneously hurt those who are actually following conservative ideals of working hard to better one's lot in life without relying on the government and alienated the American Hispanic community which is culturally quite socially conservative in nature. Had the party, which in general is very good at managing its message, not chosen such a heavyhanded approach to the immigration issue, it might very well have wooed a sizable portion of the Hispanic vote. But when people like Bush are denounced for trying to find a more realistic solution to a complicated problem than just "build a big wall and ask any Hispanic-looking person within 400 miles of the border for proof of citizenship" it just isn't going to happen.
  #281  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:04 AM
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Yes, this example can be considered an aberration. Nevertheless, right-wingers' fascination with "law and order" is another example of their closedmindedness.
The importance of the law to the GOP is inversely proportional to the size of the accused's bank account. They don't even pretend otherwise anymore.

-Joe
  #282  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:07 AM
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... the left is going to look more and more ridiculous in claiming that the Republicans are racist, as Garofolo does now in claiming that Republican supporters of Herman Cain are racist.
You are still not reading for comprehension. The actress said:
Quote:
Herman Cain is probably well liked by some of the Republicans because it hides the racist elements of the Republican party.
Garofolo agrees with you that SOME Republicans are racist. She did not say that they are ALL racist. ELEMENTS of the party. This means a few of them. Part of the party. A subsection. Not the whole. A subsample. A fraction.

And, she's an ACTRESS for God's sake. I try not to pay too much attention to when actors spout opinions about politics. And I don't then ascribe their words to an entire party.
  #283  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:40 AM
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I must say it's heartening to see so many - well, a scarce few anyway - of the Straight Dope's finest so utterly anxious to proclaim that it's only 'some' Republicans who are racist. Why, this makes Republicans virtually no different than Democrats in this regard as I know damn well there are Democrats who are racist as I know a few myself. Maybe we could get this acknowledgement made into a sticky and posted at the top of each forum so everyone will be sure, when tempted to make their scurrilous racist accusations toward Republicans, that they take pains to point out that it's only some Republicans who qualify and they all aren't like that.
God, I see this argument from the Republican side it makes me want to puke. "Your side does it, our side does it, therefore we're the same." " You have black members, we have black members - see, we're the same!" It's this very odd insistence that there are only two values in any comparison, even when you're comparing populations. "You guys have sex scandals too, so stop pointing fingers" even when the person in the scandal ran on "moral and family values".

I'm betting if we were able to poll racists, we'd find a tendency in their voting habits, and I'm betting it wouldn't be Democrat. I'd also bet we'd find more racist organizations under the Republican umbrella.

Really, when you've been caught eating a box of cookies, it doesn't fly to blame your sibling, "well they had a cookie too!"
  #284  
Old 09-30-2011, 01:27 PM
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And, she's an ACTRESS for God's sake. I try not to pay too much attention to when actors spout opinions about politics. And I don't then ascribe their words to an entire party.
Egad, here's a plot for the next Hollywierd blockbuster: Garafolo spawns and Michael Moore is her babydaddy.

<cue deep-voiced announcer>

First.......there was TERMINATOR
Then......there was PREDATOR

Now....from the unholy coupling of Garafolo and Moore, there springs....ASSHOLE!
  #285  
Old 09-30-2011, 01:55 PM
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Now....from the unholy coupling of Garafolo and Moore, there springs....ASSHOLE!
You need more reverb at the end there. And cowbell.
  #286  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:10 PM
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And maybe something that rhymes with either 'Terminator' or 'Predator.'

I can't figure out which he sucks at more: screenwriting, or joke writing.
  #287  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:22 PM
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You need more reverb at the end there. And cowbell.
How about "Garofellator"?
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:25 PM
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God, I see this argument from the Republican side it makes me want to puke. "Your side does it, our side does it, therefore we're the same." " You have black members, we have black members - see, we're the same!" It's this very odd insistence that there are only two values in any comparison, even when you're comparing populations. "You guys have sex scandals too, so stop pointing fingers" even when the person in the scandal ran on "moral and family values".
The so-do-you type of argument is very effective because Democrats as a group believe strongly that they are more ethical than Republicans and do not hesitate to say so. You have to appeal to morality when your policies are against the self-interest of most people. When you're constantly calling attention to your own moral superiority, you become a very easy target. Democrats love to tell people to eat their vegetables but they forget that they're talking not to children but to people who have the right to eat candy bars three meals a day if they feel like it.
  #289  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:26 PM
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I love how Republicans never moralize.
  #290  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:58 PM
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The so-do-you type of argument is very effective because Democrats as a group believe strongly that they are more ethical than Republicans and do not hesitate to say so. You have to appeal to morality when your policies are against the self-interest of most people. When you're constantly calling attention to your own moral superiority, you become a very easy target. Democrats love to tell people to eat their vegetables but they forget that they're talking not to children but to people who have the right to eat candy bars three meals a day if they feel like it.
Thing is, if we extend societal resources to you (like all us liberals want to force everyone to do), there should be some obligation for you to behave in ways that mitigate that cost to society. I'm not talking laws, I'm talking subsidizing behavior that pays off in reduced societal load.

Turn that corn subsidy into a broccoli subsidy. :-)
  #291  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:59 PM
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And I would agree that there are probably more racists who are Rebublican than are Democrat.
Anyone want to take bets on how many more posts SA is going to wring out of his outrage over Jeanine Garofolo daring to agree with him that some Republicans are racist?
  #292  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:01 PM
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And, she's an ACTRESS for God's sake. I try not to pay too much attention to when actors spout opinions about politics.
To be fair, judging from his inability to report Jeanine Garofolo's position accurately, SA doesn't appear to pay that much attention when actors talk about politics, either.
  #293  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:30 PM
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The so-do-you type of argument is very effective because Democrats as a group believe strongly that they are more ethical than Republicans and do not hesitate to say so. You have to appeal to morality when your policies are against the self-interest of most people. When you're constantly calling attention to your own moral superiority, you become a very easy target. Democrats love to tell people to eat their vegetables but they forget that they're talking not to children but to people who have the right to eat candy bars three meals a day if they feel like it.
As opposed to Republicans vis-a-vis sexual morality, which they actually attempt to write into law and amendment instead of just evangelizing, and then go on to hire a rentboy or do meth with their boyfriends?
  #294  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:31 PM
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Egad, here's a plot for the next Hollywierd blockbuster: Garafolo spawns and Michael Moore is her babydaddy.

<cue deep-voiced announcer>

First.......there was TERMINATOR
Then......there was PREDATOR

Now....from the unholy coupling of Garafolo and Moore, there springs....ASSHOLE!
Not bad, not bad. Now next time, try to actually be funny.

You could resurrect a petition I saw once from a right-winger asking Garafalo to get naked in a film. Hey, as a good progressive, I signed it.
  #295  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:41 PM
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42fish, I'm utterly confident that you can't prove I did any such thing. What I did was post a link Garofolo's stupid remark and followed that with the observation that the left's longtime practice of portraying Republicans as racist was looking less credible all the time.

The utterly ridiculous defense chosen by the highminded and honest lefties which followed was to deny the left does any such thing and besides Garofolo only said some Republicans were racist.

I countered this silly tactic by asking if anyone would be willing to cough up ten bucks for every instance I could point to on this board where broad brush characterizations of conservatives/Republicans/Tea Partiers as racist exists and crickets chirped.

That was all I needed to know to show up the ilk for the petty, dishonest dissemblers they are.

Translation: I win on both counts - honesty and fact.

Cheers.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 09-30-2011 at 03:44 PM.
  #296  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:51 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Yes folks, he really, honestly is that stupid and self deluded.

And I only say that because at one point a conservative was rude to me, so now it is my God-given duty to be rude right back.

And now I"m out of here because I have some things to do. Important things.
  #297  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:52 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
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OK, I"m back now, but just to confirm that SA is an ignoramus.

Now I"m gone.
  #298  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:10 PM
Hyperelastic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeriel View Post
As opposed to Republicans vis-a-vis sexual morality, which they actually attempt to write into law and amendment instead of just evangelizing, and then go on to hire a rentboy or do meth with their boyfriends?
I completely agree with you but the moral posturing is much more prevalent on the left than on the right. When a megachurch pastor gets caught blowing the pool boy, he gets the same treatment from the public as a liberal who gets caught cheating on his taxes and for the same reason.
  #299  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:42 PM
bup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperelastic View Post
I completely agree with you but the moral posturing is much more prevalent on the left than on the right. When a megachurch pastor gets caught blowing the pool boy, he gets the same treatment from the public as a liberal who gets caught cheating on his taxes and for the same reason.
I follow your second sentence, but the first doesn't make any sense to me. I look at things with a left slant, but when you say the left does more moral posturing, What the hell are you talking about?

The right is the party of "Traditional" "American" "Values" and "Good" "Old" "Judeo-Christian" "Ideas"!
  #300  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:46 PM
Bosstone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bup View Post
The right is the party of "Traditional" "American" "Values" and "Good" "Old" "Judeo-Christian" "Ideas"!
Yeah, but that's all how to interact with fellow human beings and recognizing their worth as such. That's just business.

Now, when you start talking about money, then you get into discussions of morality.
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