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  #751  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:24 PM
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None of those answer my question, and (2) is actively stupid. Whatever...
It's at most passively stupid.
  #752  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:27 PM
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Okay, fair.
  #753  
Old 09-18-2019, 07:33 PM
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Okay, fair.
Thanks! I'm nothing if not fair.
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  #754  
Old 09-19-2019, 03:29 AM
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WTF is this thread about, now?
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  #755  
Old 09-19-2019, 06:56 PM
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The right wing “Point of View” show on my local CBS station just mentioned Omar several times but I didn’t hear the details. Was there some new development, or are they just dancing to the oldies? Host Chris Berg pressed my congressman, Collin Peterson (DFL-MN) about whether he would refer Omar to the Ethics Committee and Peterson clearly looked uncomfortable but would not say “no”. Instead, he said he would “ask them about it”, but that he has many other more important issues on his plate right now. Ask them about what?

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-19-2019 at 06:56 PM.
  #756  
Old 09-19-2019, 07:15 PM
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The right wing “Point of View” show on my local CBS station just mentioned Omar several times but I didn’t hear the details. Was there some new development, or are they just dancing to the oldies? Host Chris Berg pressed my congressman, Collin Peterson (DFL-MN) about whether he would refer Omar to the Ethics Committee and Peterson clearly looked uncomfortable but would not say “no”. Instead, he said he would “ask them about it”, but that he has many other more important issues on his plate right now. Ask them about what?
Googling suggests this. Basically she is alleged to have had an affair with a married man who runs a consulting company that her campaign hired. Having an affair with a married man is bad, if true, but hardly earth shattering. As far as the payments go, helping liberal campaigns like Omar's is exactly the sort of thing this consulting company regularly does, so even if there was an affair it could be easily be that it started because of the payments (and work associated with them) rather than the payments caused by the affair.

Compared with Stormy Daniels and Trump's self dealing campaign spending this seem a pretty weak tea.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 09-19-2019 at 07:19 PM.
  #757  
Old 09-19-2019, 07:22 PM
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Too late to edit:

Re-reading the article it sounds like the payments were made post campaign which is bit more suspicious, on the other hand it could be that they are just the paying off of old invoices.
  #758  
Old 09-19-2019, 08:20 PM
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All the new furor is based off of a single accusation by a woman whose husband is leaving her? Pardon me if I don't believe it based on her word alone.
  #759  
Old 09-19-2019, 09:22 PM
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Googling suggests this. Basically she is alleged to have had an affair with a married man who runs a consulting company that her campaign hired. Having an affair with a married man is bad, if true, but hardly earth shattering. As far as the payments go, helping liberal campaigns like Omar's is exactly the sort of thing this consulting company regularly does, so even if there was an affair it could be easily be that it started because of the payments (and work associated with them) rather than the payments caused by the affair.

Compared with Stormy Daniels and Trump's self dealing campaign spending this seem a pretty weak tea.

That should not be the standard. I hate when I see people saying things like this, because we could justify almost anything by using that subterranean bar.
  #760  
Old 09-19-2019, 10:57 PM
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That should not be the standard. I hate when I see people saying things like this, because we could justify almost anything by using that subterranean bar.
This is below even that. This is entirely based on a divorce filing - you know, the type of thing that gets thrown around at the end of contentious marriages, like the divorce in question.

It's literally, "I think he's cheating on me with that tramp!" blown into astronomical proportions. And it has as much basis in evidence as every other complaint lodged against her in this thread.
  #761  
Old 09-20-2019, 04:45 AM
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WTF is this thread about, now?
How Muslim baby formula causes immigrants to marry their guns to get a green card.
  #762  
Old 09-20-2019, 05:38 AM
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WTF is this thread about, now?
Brown woman with foreign-sounding name gets uppity, attracts vultures
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  #763  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:03 AM
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Uppity Omar sounds like an old-time radio show.
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  #764  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:11 AM
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Uppity Omar sounds like an old-time radio show.
And now I'm suddenly imagining Ilhan Omar as the star of an old-school animated TV show, like Betty Boop.
  #765  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:32 AM
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That should not be the standard. I hate when I see people saying things like this, because we could justify almost anything by using that subterranean bar.
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  #766  
Old 09-20-2019, 04:40 PM
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There are plenty of progressive and very non-anarchistic countries in the West with no equivalent religion clauses in their constitutions, yet they manage to avoid theocracy somehow.
Which country/ies are you referring to, specifically?

AFAICT, while of course no other country uses the exact same wording in their protection of freedom of religion as the US Constitution's First Amendment does, every country that you would presumably consider "progressive and very non-anarchistic" has legal provisions explicitly guaranteeing freedom of religion.

So your childish demand for a national legal framework that doesn't even mention religion is still a bunch of bullshit as far as realistic protections against theocratic oppression are concerned.
  #767  
Old 09-20-2019, 05:25 PM
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And now I'm suddenly imagining Ilhan Omar as the star of an old-school animated TV show, like Betty Boop.
Cue badly-Photoshopped picture of a flapper Omar in a speakeasy with a cartoon dog.
  #768  
Old 09-20-2019, 07:09 PM
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Which country/ies are you referring to, specifically?

AFAICT, while of course no other country uses the exact same wording in their protection of freedom of religion as the US Constitution's First Amendment does, every country that you would presumably consider "progressive and very non-anarchistic" has legal provisions explicitly guaranteeing freedom of religion.

So your childish demand for a national legal framework that doesn't even mention religion is still a bunch of bullshit as far as realistic protections against theocratic oppression are concerned.

Then explain to me how France banned burqas.
  #769  
Old 09-20-2019, 08:29 PM
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How Muslim baby formula causes immigrants to marry their guns to get a green card.
Damn you, Obamacare!
  #770  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:33 PM
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Then explain to me how France banned burqas.
The ban is not specific to burqas. It specifies that no one may wear masks or other garments that obscure the face in a public space. This does not apply to religious spaces.

The ban applies to everyone, and specifically exempts religious uses.

But don't let facts slow you down.
  #771  
Old 09-21-2019, 12:56 AM
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But it’s clearly a law that would not pass U.S. constitutional muster. Correct?
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:46 AM
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Depends how many islamophobes the SC is padded out with, no?
  #773  
Old 09-21-2019, 07:42 AM
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But it’s clearly a law that would not pass U.S. constitutional muster. Correct?
What do you suppose you're proving with this example?
Seems to me you're making an arguement against yourself.

You are trying to argue that your country's constitution shouldn't even make mention of religion, right? Or did I get that wrong?
  #774  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:15 AM
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What do you suppose you're proving with this example?
Seems to me you're making an arguement against yourself.

You are trying to argue that your country's constitution shouldn't even make mention of religion, right? Or did I get that wrong?
I was wondering the same. If I recall, SlackerInc has been arguing freedom of/from religion should not be in the Constitution, because other countries don't have the same severe protections and don't have any problem with protecting religious expression.

So he points out how a country that doesn't have the same severe protections restricts religious expression.

That said, this entire thread is an exercise in mental masturbation of right wing talking points. The most potent cites are from Republican communication directors and an estranged wife's divorce claim.
  #775  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:51 AM
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::checks in::

oh, this thread is till going.

right
  #776  
Old 09-21-2019, 04:17 PM
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What do you suppose you're proving with this example?
Seems to me you're making an arguement against yourself.

You are trying to argue that your country's constitution shouldn't even make mention of religion, right? Or did I get that wrong?

You are right.


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I was wondering the same. If I recall, SlackerInc has been arguing freedom of/from religion should not be in the Constitution, because other countries don't have the same severe protections and don't have any problem with protecting religious expression.

So he points out how a country that doesn't have the same severe protections restricts religious expression.

No, I am against “protecting religious expression”. If I don’t have the right to do it for “shits ‘n’ giggles”, you shouldn’t have the right to do it because you belong to a big club of people who believe a bunch of woo written in a book thousands of years ago.

But my point was that countries like France don’t have our constitutional protection of religion, yet they also don’t have the parade of horribles Kimstu darkly warned of.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-21-2019 at 04:19 PM.
  #777  
Old 09-21-2019, 09:38 PM
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But my point was that countries like France don’t have our constitutional protection of religion, yet they also don’t have the parade of horribles Kimstu darkly warned of.
I just googled "does france's constitution mention religion".

It does.

So . . . . . .
  #778  
Old 09-21-2019, 10:43 PM
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France's constitution guarantees religious freedom.
What it doesn't have is America's strict separation of church and state.

Would you prefer that America also relax it's separation of church and state?
Or do you just feel it's unnecessary baggage?

Last edited by Not Carlson; 09-21-2019 at 10:45 PM.
  #779  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:02 PM
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Northern Europe and Scandinavia have become very secular, so whatever they’re doing works for me.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:18 AM
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And your reference to France proves what?
  #781  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:41 AM
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France's constitution guarantees religious freedom.
What it doesn't have is America's strict separation of church and state.

What is your take on Article One of the French constitution.
  #782  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:36 AM
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And your reference to France proves what?
He's this close to proving Ilhan Omar married her brother and the French constitution is the key piece of evidence that ties it all together.

Last edited by Smapti; 09-22-2019 at 02:36 AM.
  #783  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:08 AM
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I don’t even believe she married her brother.
  #784  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:11 AM
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What is your take on Article One of the French constitution.
Well, I'll have to read it first.
Let me get back to you.

To be clear, I don't really have a dog in this fight regarding the US constitution.
I'm just perplexed about Slacker's argument against the religious freedom clauses.
He says he's agin' 'em, but his arguments seem to be for 'em.
  #785  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:26 AM
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I don’t like to see religion get official recognition of any kind. It’s just a dumb belief that many people hold. People are allowed to hold dumb beliefs, but we don’t need (and I don’t want) special consideration for certain dumb notions.
  #786  
Old 09-22-2019, 05:04 AM
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I don’t like to see religion get official recognition of any kind. It’s just a dumb belief that many people hold. People are allowed to hold dumb beliefs, but we don’t need (and I don’t want) special consideration for certain dumb notions.
...but its only Muslims that you think should be banned from immigrating to America correct?

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I certainly do not! I have said many times that I welcome immigrants from Latin America. I have perhaps not said, but will say now FTR, that I also welcome immigrants from virtually any other part of the world, as long as they are not Muslim.
So you think Christians should get special consideration over Muslims. Christians are welcome. Muslims are not. Which is the real reason you can't leave this thread alone. You are a racist bigot.
  #787  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:30 AM
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What is your take on Article One of the French constitution.
OK, shopping, dinner, work and masturbation all done (although not in that order).
Thanks for waiting.

Lessee, ...
CONSTITUTION OF OCTOBER 4, 1958, ARTICLE 1:
Quote:
France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralised basis. Statutes shall promote equal access by women and men to elective offices and posts as well as to position of professional and social responsibility.
Well, it seems pretty good to me.
It does state that France is to be a secular republic, so I suppose that is akin to separating religious belief and organization from government, if not so plainly as the US constitution.
It clearly states that equality is to be ensured “without distinction of … religion”, so that seems to cover religious freedom.
Furthermore, it states that the nation “shall respect all beliefs”, which would cover freedom of belief (and which I suspect is not the kind of wording SlackerInc would be happy with).

What’s your take on it?

I still don’t understand why SlackerInc made reference to France in his argument against inclusion of religion in the US constitution.
  #788  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:01 AM
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Short version: Because he's an idiot.
  #789  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:27 AM
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OK, shopping, dinner, work and masturbation all done (although not in that order).
Thanks for waiting.

Lessee, ...
CONSTITUTION OF OCTOBER 4, 1958, ARTICLE 1:

Well, it seems pretty good to me.
It does state that France is to be a secular republic, so I suppose that is akin to separating religious belief and organization from government, if not so plainly as the US constitution.
It clearly states that equality is to be ensured “without distinction of … religion”, so that seems to cover religious freedom.
Furthermore, it states that the nation “shall respect all beliefs”, which would cover freedom of belief (and which I suspect is not the kind of wording SlackerInc would be happy with).

What’s your take on it?

I still don’t understand why SlackerInc made reference to France in his argument against inclusion of religion in the US constitution.

Same as yours.

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Short version: Because he's an idiot.

Yep.
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Old 09-22-2019, 03:02 PM
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Well, show us where Northern Europe's constitution guarantees religious freedom?!

CMC fnord!
  #791  
Old 09-22-2019, 03:23 PM
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...but its only Muslims that you think should be banned from immigrating to America correct?



So you think Christians should get special consideration over Muslims. Christians are welcome. Muslims are not. Which is the real reason you can't leave this thread alone. You are a racist bigot.
And we now know why SlackerInc is so against Omar.

ETA: And now her eldest daughter, Isra Hirsi, is fighting against climate change, which is 100% against SlackerInc's chosen position, because he might make a killing in rising land costs in northern Minnesota. The entire family is out to get him!

Last edited by Chisquirrel; 09-22-2019 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Added a nut
  #792  
Old 09-23-2019, 09:16 PM
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But my point was that countries like France don’t have our constitutional protection of religion, yet they also don’t have the parade of horribles Kimstu darkly warned of.
You seem to have confused "not having our constitutional protection of religion" with "not having any constitutional protection of religion".

You keep saying you think the US should have no constitutional protection of freedom of religion, and attempting to justify it by pointing to countries that do have constitutional protection of freedom of religion, although their forms of religious-freedom protection are, as I said, not exactly identical to ours and thus result in some non-identical policy choices.

None of which does jack-shit to support your still-completely-unfounded claim that it would be fine for the US to have absolutely no constitutional protection of freedom of religion.

At this point, SlackerInc, your rhetoric is probably motivated more by the feeble hope that stubbornly reiterating your illogical arguments may somehow prevent other posters from noticing how illogical they are, rather than by any genuine belief that they make sense, if indeed you ever held any such belief.

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Northern Europe and Scandinavia have become very secular, so whatever they’re doing works for me.
Okay, here, for example, is Sweden:
Quote:
The constitution of Sweden provides for freedom of religion, and the government generally respects this right in practice. The government at all levels seeks to protect this right in full and does not tolerate its abuse, either by governmental or private actors. The rights and freedoms enumerated in the constitution include the rights to practice one's religion and protection of religious freedom. [...]

Eight recognized religious denominations, in addition to the Church of Sweden, raise revenues through member-contributions made through the national tax system. All recognized denominations are entitled to direct government financial support, contributions made through the national tax system, or a mix of both. Certain Christian holidays are national holidays. School students from minority religious backgrounds are entitled to take relevant religious holidays. No recognition or registration is required to carry out religious activity. Religious groups that want to receive government aid may apply for it.

Education about all major world religions is compulsory in public schools. Parents may send their children to religious charter schools, all of which receive school vouchers, provided they adhere to government guidelines on core academic curriculum. [...]
Several of which religious accommodations and recognitions are things you've said in this very thread you're not okay with. So when you claim that "whatever they're doing" "works for you", are you lying now, or were you lying then? Or did you instead, as usual, just shoot your mouth off without really knowing anything about the subject you were making such categorical claims about?

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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze
Short version: Because he's an idiot.
Yup. I usually have a lot of patience for the task of ignorance-fighting, but even I am starting to get tired of SlackerInc's Hitchensesque con job of trying to sound sassy and provocative in order to distract attention from his underlying irrationality and ignorance.

Last edited by Kimstu; 09-23-2019 at 09:17 PM.
  #793  
Old 09-24-2019, 06:19 AM
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So you think Christians should get special consideration over Muslims. Christians are welcome. Muslims are not. Which is the real reason you can't leave this thread alone. You are a racist bigot.
Hey now - Islam is not a "race". He's a sectarian bigot.
  #794  
Old 09-24-2019, 11:13 AM
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I have been too busy to post. Possibly this weekend I'll have some time to follow up with where we were on CAIR (not that it really mattered to the subject at hand).

But, anyways, in the meanwhile, ProPublica caught Omar deleting a tweet where she called her father by his other name:

https://projects.propublica.org/poli...98031572250625

That's the first conclusive evidence that I know that she is actively deleting social media posts that are used by the right against her.
  #795  
Old 09-24-2019, 11:15 AM
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This is definitely the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for!
  #796  
Old 09-24-2019, 12:04 PM
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I have been too busy to post. Possibly this weekend I'll have some time to follow up with where we were on CAIR (not that it really mattered to the subject at hand).

But, anyways, in the meanwhile, ProPublica caught Omar deleting a tweet where she called her father by his other name:

https://projects.propublica.org/poli...98031572250625

That's the first conclusive evidence that I know that she is actively deleting social media posts that are used by the right against her.
What does this have to do with her marriage?
  #797  
Old 09-24-2019, 01:24 PM
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What does this have to do with her marriage?
In related news I heard she might have once had a parking ticket. It’s all adding up.
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:44 PM
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All the new furor is based off of a single accusation by a woman whose husband is leaving her? Pardon me if I don't believe it based on her word alone.
I imagine that if she cried sexual assault vs a Republican, you'd be rushing to believe her then …

And you guys wonder why the moderates here find this place a very very biased partisan place
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:46 PM
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I imagine that if she cried sexual assault vs a Republican, you'd be rushing to believe her then …
Likely we'd be "rushing" to demand a full and serious investigation, and we'd be critical of anyone who denigrated her simply for coming forward and making an accusation. Which is pretty reasonable after a serious accusation, right?

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And you guys wonder why the moderates here find this place a very very biased partisan place
If it's these kind of fantasies about hypothetical evil liberals that's causing this belief, then I'm afraid there's not much us real world non-hypothetical (and non-evil) liberals can do about it. You'll have to look inside for that one.
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:48 PM
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Likely we'd be "rushing" to demand a full and serious investigation, and we'd be critical of anyone who denigrated her simply for coming forward and making an accusation. Which is pretty reasonable after a serious accusation, right?



If it's these kind of fantasies about hypothetical evil liberals that's causing this belief, then I'm afraid there's not much us real world non-hypothetical (and non-evil) liberals can do about it. You'll have to look inside for that one.

Evidently you can't read the post (that I quoted). In no way did the poster I quoted call for ANY investigation, serious or otherwise, just a simple, "I don't believe her'
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