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  #51  
Old 08-17-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
Quarter billion years for your "gotcha"
No, I believe my "gotcha" is at least 1.75 billion years, since that's the most charitable difference between your "billions of years now" and the truth.
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Irrelevant in geology, how long does it take for a rock to move from the equator to 23.5º?
What the fuck does that have to do with, well, anything?

We were discussing the equator, and the supposed lack of deserts there. What's happening at some other arb line is completely irrelevant, now or in the Permian.

I've heard of moving the goalposts, but 2608 km is a new record.
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When you posted this I checked, and the convergence zone was swung up north across the Sahara, thus pulling the Hadley Cell along with it
That's irrelevant to either of the monsoon circulations I mentioned, which don't have anything to do with the Sahara.

And it sounds like you only just learned the ITCZ shifts during the year. Please, do tell us more about climate...[insert Gene Wilder Wonka meme here]
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From what direction do these aeolian deposits record the wind ... is it strictly north/south (meridional), or is there and east/west component (zonal)? ...
Read my cites.
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My apologies for not making myself clear ... "Is it any good?", this is not a rhetorical question, it should be the first question everybody asks ... "hell, no", this mean I don't think it's any good in this context, thus I've asked for how we measure climate that demonstrates that it is changing ...
*Ahem* MrDibble, when you have a sec...?
I'm sorry, was there a question for me in there somewhere? One that wasn't already addressed by other posts in this thread, I mean? And one that a brief perusal of the IPCC reports wouldn't render unnecessary would be good, too.

And dude, I love parentheses much more than is healthy, and even I would prefer you type more legibly.

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-17-2018 at 05:01 PM.
  #52  
Old 08-17-2018, 10:40 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
[snip] ... I'm sorry, was there a question for me in there somewhere? ... [snap]
How do we measure climate that demonstrates that it is changing? ...

I have others on my dance card, I'm sorry you don't like the song the band is playing {YouTube 31'35"}, perhaps later we can try again ...
  #53  
Old 08-17-2018, 10:42 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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*Ahem* watchwolf49, when you have a sec...? Perhaps you should consider that before anyone feels obliged to waste more time on your latest pontifications, you might want to address post #46 which establishes essentially that you've been wrong about everything so far in this thread. Thanks.
I have you down right after GIGO ... [shivers] ... I feel like the Homecoming Queen at the Homecoming Dance ...
  #54  
Old 08-17-2018, 11:41 PM
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How do we measure climate that demonstrates that it is changing? ...
http://www.npolar.no/en/themes/clima...measuring.html
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How do we measure climate change?

Several methods can be used to observe climate and climate change. Today’s scientists use sophisticated instruments and satellites to measure climate parameters. We can also look back through time by studying ice cores and sediment cores that provide indirect evidence about past temperatures and other climate conditions. Climate change is measured both globally and regionally.

The most common climate observations are of temperature and precipitation. Other climate variables include humidity, wind speed and direction, air pressure, cloud cover and solar radiation.

In polar regions, observed changes in sea ice, snow cover and glaciers also tell us what is happening with the climate.
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Ice sheets as climate archives

Glacier ice, particularly the ice in the inland ice sheets of Antarctica and Greenland, holds a treasure trove of information about climate in ancient times. The snow that once fell here contains information about ambient climate hundreds of millennia back in time. Tiny air bubbles trapped in the ice allow scientists to study how the composition of the atmosphere has changed with temperature over time.
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
I have others on my dance card, I'm sorry you don't like the song the band is playing {YouTube 31'35"}, perhaps later we can try again ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Z0Z69oAjNLQ
Bob Weir speaks on Climate Change and our Future at Social Good Summit 2017

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Well, [by] in 2030 I'd like to see global warming and environmental degradation arrested, and hand in hand I'd like to see social justice to be a normal consideration for all people.
- Bob Weir - American musician and songwriter best known as a founding member of the rock band Grateful Dead.


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  #55  
Old 08-18-2018, 02:49 AM
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How do we measure climate that demonstrates that it is changing? ...
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
One that wasn't already addressed by other posts in this thread, I mean? And one that a brief perusal of the IPCC reports wouldn't render unnecessary would be good, too.
Like so:

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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
"Climate" is a fuzzy word with a lot of meaning attached. How about we measure things that actually matter? Like average global temperatures? Or average local temperatures? Or sea level rise? Or average ocean temperatures? Or hurricane wind speeds over time? All of these things matter. These are all metrics that clearly matter.
and others.

Last edited by MrDibble; 08-18-2018 at 02:50 AM.
  #56  
Old 08-18-2018, 04:02 AM
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Right?

I don't particularly care if the city I'm in is classified as "tropic" or "sub-tropic". That's a label that doesn't actually mean anything to me because of how vague and fuzzy it is. What I care about is whether I can survive without air conditioning, or whether I'm going to die of heatstroke if I try. What I care about is whether or not the beachfront property I own is going to be "beachfront" or "underwater" in a few decades. What I care about is whether a mosquito bite is a temporary annoyance or a potentially lethal threat.

These are all fairly easily measured. These are all things we can predict. These are all real metrics. And they're all tied to global warming.

watchwolf49, do you care about any of these things? If so, why would you even bring up those "climate categories" that nobody involved in climatology actually cares about?
  #57  
Old 08-18-2018, 01:09 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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I'd like to start this conversation with you agreeing to a stipulation ... the 2006 article speaks to "hundreds of people", in 2012 we have "thousands of people" and the 2017 article has "10's of thousands of people" ... so it seems to me it's fair to assess these programs talked about in these articles as affecting 100's of thousands of people ... maybe not today but in rather short order this will be true ...

These are still tiny tiny numbers compared to the problem at hand ...

1] The New Yorker touches upon my biggest concern ... we're bringing financial resources to address this problem in places that are effectively un-moneyed ... no paying jobs, no grocery stores, no shopping malls ... these are sustenance farmers who can only eat the food they themselves can grow and they have to make any tools they need with the materials at hand ... for somebody cutting firewood with a stone axe, those steel supports for the solar panels look awful inviting ...

Although the novel was fiction, the symbolism rings true ... the entire village had to pool their money to buy a single car, which is parked 7 miles away along the closest road ... there are utility poles every hundred feet along the footpath, without wire, as no matter how much can be strung during the day, it's all torn down and scrapped at night ... this is juxtaposed with the Drug Lord gang coming into the village and carting off all the pretty 12-year-old girls ... a situation not unlike northern Nigeria today ... we bring a specific type of wealth into places where there is no wealth ... Electric light at night is nice but the people need clean water, police force and all-weather roads ... and maybe some hand soap ...

Rich guy from the Big City offers a each villager ten year's income for their community solar panels ... everybody profits ...

2] I'm appalled that anyone sitting in an air conditioned house in Western Europe/Anglo-America (WE/AA) would bitch about South Africa's carbon load on the atmosphere ... "Honey, run across town and pick me up a bobbin ... oh and hate on South Africa for burning a little coal would ya?" ... here's the image of The Earth at Night [2000], this pin-points who's causing the pollution, these folks need to clean up their act FIRST before they whine and bitch at the others ...

Now, WE/AA made huge mistakes though ignorance these past 100 years, and are working hard to mitigate these mistakes ... South Africans know this, they see the mistakes we made and they're going to try and not make the same mistakes ... I think they need to be removed from the emission control discussions, trust them to make the right decisions on their own ... with what they've done these past few decades, I think they're worthy of this trust, as if that matters to them and I wouldn't blame them if they didn't give a rat's ass if we trust them or not ... I also think these other impoverished and non-polluting areas should get the same hand-wave ... Indo-China, The Congo, Australia, Outer Mongolia ... these folks are just as smart as WE/AA ... they'll do the right thing ...

3] The articles discuss some of the problems that are being seen with these programs, but they're only using successes as examples ... are we to assume they've experienced no failures? ... or do descriptions of these failures sell less magazines? ... what about cell phone chargers in Mauritania or the South Sudan refugee camps ... this is millions of people and still less than 1% of the problem ...

=====

These are serious issues, but this is a web-site dedicated to the humorous side of things:

A] "African countries, blessed with sunlight all year round" ... okay ... ummmm ... I guess that is a blessing, damn lucky aren't they? ...

B] It takes some deciphering but the solar panels for the miller is for just the lights, so he can mill more grain at night ... because even a small household flour mill draws 1000W ... looks like $100 for a "plug-and-play" system to run this mill on Amazon ... for this kind of money, the people can eat cake ...

C] Passive solar hot water heaters work great, no electricity ... paint a 5-gallon bucket black, insert water, set out in sun ... warm enough to wash hands and butts with ... too cold outside, then you're heating your home so try inside ...

=====

What makes me hopeful with these articles is that, at the same time, WE/AA are working to make the affluent lifestyle less energy dependent ... as Africa ramps up it's "carbon-free" energy production, far more efficient appliances are becoming available ... these two forces will meet in the middle and we'll have everybody living a cleaner and better life ... my mother remembers when she was 8-years-old when REC came and installed a single electric outlet in the home ... huge improvement on her family's standard of living ... grandma had an electric sewing machine to sew flour sacks together for mom's school clothes ... within a few years they had money to buy her shoes for church ... that's all I'm asking for here, just a little carbon load, just to give folks a start ... is it really too much of a burden to ditch your A/C? ...
  #58  
Old 08-18-2018, 01:12 PM
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After GIGO and wolfpup I'm going to have to sit down a spell ... a misogynist invent pumps ... they are NOT good for dancing ... then Budget and MrDibble if he promises to stop trying to step on my feet, the fist-fighting is behind the gym in case you didn't know ...

Last edited by watchwolf49; 08-18-2018 at 01:15 PM.
  #59  
Old 08-18-2018, 04:02 PM
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I'd like to start this conversation with you agreeing to a stipulation ... the 2006 article speaks to "hundreds of people", in 2012 we have "thousands of people" and the 2017 article has "10's of thousands of people" ... so it seems to me it's fair to assess these programs talked about in these articles as affecting 100's of thousands of people ... maybe not today but in rather short order this will be true ...

These are still tiny tiny numbers compared to the problem at hand ...

1] The New Yorker touches upon my biggest concern ... we're bringing financial resources to address this problem in places that are effectively un-moneyed ... no paying jobs, no grocery stores, no shopping malls ... these are sustenance farmers who can only eat the food they themselves can grow and they have to make any tools they need with the materials at hand ... for somebody cutting firewood with a stone axe, those steel supports for the solar panels look awful inviting ...
Creating an issue that id not there just make a "but what about?" silly argument. So the rest has a lot of your post snipped from a lot of silly padding:

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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
2] I'm appalled that anyone sitting in an air conditioned house in Western Europe/Anglo-America (WE/AA) would bitch about South Africa's carbon load on the atmosphere ... "Honey, run across town and pick me up a bobbin ... oh and hate on South Africa for burning a little coal would ya?" ... here's the image of The Earth at Night [2000], this pin-points who's causing the pollution, these folks need to clean up their act FIRST before they whine and bitch at the others ...
Here in Arizona:

https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=AZ
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  • Arizona's Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station, rated at 3,937 net megawatts, is the largest nuclear power plant, the largest net generator of electricity, and the second-largest power plant by capacity of any kind in the nation.
  • In 2016, two-fifths of Arizona’s renewable electricity generation came from solar energy. The state ranked second in the nation in utility-scale electricity generation from solar energy and third in generation from distributed (customer-sited, small-scale) solar resources.
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
3] The articles discuss some of the problems that are being seen with these programs, but they're only using successes as examples ... are we to assume they've experienced no failures? ... or do descriptions of these failures sell less magazines? ... what about cell phone chargers in Mauritania or the South Sudan refugee camps ... this is millions of people and still less than 1% of the problem ...
Not doing your homework, or in other words: you need to make your point yourself. Or like I did when there I could not pinpoint the comment of the cell circulation speed, give up the point because no cite is available to counter the good efforts going on in Africa.

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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
What makes me hopeful with these articles is that, at the same time, WE/AA are working to make the affluent lifestyle less energy dependent ... as Africa ramps up it's "carbon-free" energy production, far more efficient appliances are becoming available ... these two forces will meet in the middle and we'll have everybody living a cleaner and better life ... my mother remembers when she was 8-years-old when REC came and installed a single electric outlet in the home ... huge improvement on her family's standard of living ... grandma had an electric sewing machine to sew flour sacks together for mom's school clothes ... within a few years they had money to buy her shoes for church ... that's all I'm asking for here, just a little carbon load, just to give folks a start ... is it really too much of a burden to ditch your A/C? ...
“The man who says it can’t be done* is constantly being interrupted by somebody doing it.”



*With less or without carbon dumped into the atmosphere.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-18-2018 at 04:03 PM.
  #60  
Old 08-18-2018, 11:11 PM
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Creating an issue that id not there just make a "but what about?" silly argument. So the rest has a lot of your post snipped from a lot of silly padding:
Unwilling to debate ... noted ...

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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
That plant is located in the dark areas of the map ... if those folks want to yell at the 1 billion people without electricity ... okay, they won't hear, no electricity ... go to the light areas, them folks should clean up their act ...

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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
Not doing your homework, or in other words: you need to make your point yourself. Or like I did when there I could not pinpoint the comment of the cell circulation speed, give up the point because no cite is available to counter the good efforts going on in Africa.
"Examples of Failed Aid-Funded Projects in Africa" --- NBC News --- Dec 23rd, 2007
"Boreholes and wells (developing community water sources)" --- International Donor Agencies – Africa --- (Catalogue of Catastrophe) --- July 2016

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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
“The man who says it can’t be done* is constantly being interrupted by somebody doing it.”
20,000 down ... 999,980,000 to go ... and no diesel generators until then? ... callous ...

Last edited by watchwolf49; 08-18-2018 at 11:12 PM.
  #61  
Old 08-18-2018, 11:31 PM
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Unwilling to debate ... noted ...



That plant is located in the dark areas of the map ... if those folks want to yell at the 1 billion people without electricity ... okay, they won't hear, no electricity ... go to the light areas, them folks should clean up their act ...



"Examples of Failed Aid-Funded Projects in Africa" --- NBC News --- Dec 23rd, 2007
"Boreholes and wells (developing community water sources)" --- International Donor Agencies – Africa --- (Catalogue of Catastrophe) --- July 2016
Citing issues that are not related, IOW not evidence of a failure of what I cited.

So, no debate there, the evidence here is that there is no debate coming from you if the change will end in failure, so my points do stand.

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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
20,000 down ... 999,980,000 to go ... and no diesel generators until then? ... callous ...
And even a straw man do not make a counter argument. The point stands, the efforts are ongoing, they may fail, but so far the evidence is that the ones wanting to interrupt those efforts are making arguments that are being ignored.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-18-2018 at 11:34 PM.
  #62  
Old 08-19-2018, 04:40 PM
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Understood ... thank you for this dance ...

=====

Next on my dance card is wolfpup ... I'm not going to fist-fight with you wearing a ball gown and my great grandmother's pearls ... your insults to my posts are noted, you need not belabor the point ... my feet are killing me and I'd like to sit down and take my shoes off for a spell ...

From the top, do you agree or disagree that the map in the OP in grossly inaccurate for 4ºC global warming? ... specifically the representation of deserts along the equator (with the continents in those positions) ...

Last edited by watchwolf49; 08-19-2018 at 04:41 PM.
  #63  
Old 08-20-2018, 11:16 AM
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From the top, do you agree or disagree that the map in the OP in grossly inaccurate for 4ºC global warming? ... specifically the representation of deserts along the equator (with the continents in those positions) ...
I may not have a lot of time over the next day or two so I'll just remind you that the OP map is not my point here, but rather my remarks in my post #46 regarding the fact that you're wrong about virtually everything you posted here, most egregiously the hilarious claptrap about how wonderfully benign climate change is.

But regarding the map as a side issue, a 4ºC temperature rise will be very damaging in the many myriad ways I've already indicated. Desertification in some areas, floods and droughts in others, persistently stronger storms and coastal storm surges, and rising sea levels and ocean acidification among them.

But precise regional distributions are uncertain, and are usually expressed as risk factors, not firm predictions. One generally tends to find more wet than dry areas along the equator, but not always, and a great deal depends on what one means by "along the equator". Many parts of the tropics, the zone between the two longitudinal tropic lines on either side of the equator, are at risk of desertification, notably large parts of Africa, the Middle East, the interior of northern Australia, and parts of Brazil, among others. Africa is one of the greatest at-risk areas for drought and water stress. Parts of Kenya, Somalia, and Ethiopia are immediate equatorial regions with sections at high risk of desertification, and in fact the whole east coast of Africa from just south of the equator all the way up the continent is projected to be persistently dry with sections subject to high risks of total desertification, and a very high risk in a narrow band across the entire continent just south of the Tropic of Cancer. In that area, Lake Chad, a major source of water for the region, has already shrunk by over 90% relative to the 1960s.

And now I look forward to your further comments on some of your most hilarious statements, particularly how "global warming won't cause bad things to happen" and "weather will be more moderated in a warmer world", which I'm sure will be of great interest to climate scientists everywhere.
  #64  
Old 08-21-2018, 11:43 AM
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I appreciate you're a busy person ... and I thank you for the time you spend here ... I've learned much from you and wish you'd be less testy is all ...

If we agree the map is wrong in placing deserts in Amazonia, The Congo and Indonesia ... do you agree with my explanation? ... the convergence zone averages along the equator and provides abundant rainfall ... this isn't the tropics, it's the line between the two … you’ve claimed that I've “been wrong about everything so far in this thread” … state your case as to why this is wrong and please include what is correct …

Power is everything in weather, and climate is average weather ... thermo (energy) + dynamics (movement) ... the movement of energy is defined as power ... sometimes I don’t think you understand this … you don’t trust me to explain, and I don’t know why none of your friends will …

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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
[snip] ... Research that suggests surface winds may be slower in many regions (and stronger in others) refers to average daily winds ... [snap]
Cite please …

Last edited by watchwolf49; 08-21-2018 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Vain attempt at being less verbose ...
  #65  
Old 08-21-2018, 01:35 PM
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The Map is clearly fudging a lot of things; if Western Antarctica and Greenland are being habitable, the vast ice sheets on top of them today are going somewhere. The evacuations of hundreds of millions would have already begun, because the coastal cities would be dozens of feet underwater.

Unless the Oceans themselves raise in temperatures to lethal levels (and that's game over if it does), the coasts would still be habitable, albeit they would be higher; farmland would also move around.

http://www.worlddreambank.org/D/DUBIA.HTM

Has a fun artistic vision of what happens if CO2 Doubles, fun website as well.
  #66  
Old 08-24-2018, 10:59 AM
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I appreciate you're a busy person ... and I thank you for the time you spend here ... I've learned much from you and wish you'd be less testy is all ...

If we agree the map is wrong in placing deserts in Amazonia, The Congo and Indonesia ... do you agree with my explanation? ... the convergence zone averages along the equator and provides abundant rainfall ... this isn't the tropics, it's the line between the two … you’ve claimed that I've “been wrong about everything so far in this thread” … state your case as to why this is wrong and please include what is correct …

Power is everything in weather, and climate is average weather ... thermo (energy) + dynamics (movement) ... the movement of energy is defined as power ... sometimes I don’t think you understand this … you don’t trust me to explain, and I don’t know why none of your friends will …
That is not responsive to the challenge you were given and promised to address, specifically, the totally incorrect major claims you made that I itemized in post #46, where you contradict all the mainstream science and claim that climate change "won't cause bad things to happen" and that "weather will be more moderated in a warmer world".
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Cite please …
Cite for what, exactly? You yourself claimed that winds were slowing, and there are controversial theories about global wind stilling, yet at the same time I showed you cites projecting greater weather extremes and stronger storms and that in fact it's already happening. Even the Jennifer Francis research previously discussed about the slowing of the jet stream suggests the increased waviness of the jet stream leading to more extreme and more sustained weather events. Here's another one pertaining to hurricane strength.
  #67  
Old 08-26-2018, 11:23 AM
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That is not responsive to the challenge you were given and promised to address, specifically, the totally incorrect major claims you made that I itemized in post #46, where you contradict all the mainstream science and claim that climate change "won't cause bad things to happen" and that "weather will be more moderated in a warmer world".
I'm trying to clarify the words we're using ... I'm not up-to-speed on the current wave of New Speak where "energy" means exactly the same thing as power and "bad" means exactly the same thing as good ... but if you accept the Biblical definition of good and bad then we have "God's wrath upon the people of Houston for building their mighty city upon the 6,000 graves of those who lost their lives during the Galveston Hurricane of 1900" ... but we don't need global warming to predict that Houston will flood again, and again, and again ... this is part of Houston's current climate, what change in climate is trivial compared to the change in population there ...

Mainstream science has "Particular causes are difficult to implicate, but these sorts of occurrences are consistent with the analysis and mechanism presented in this study." ... this kind of language is common in the scientific literature, so perhaps you mean "mainstream supermarket tabloid literature"? ...

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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Cite for what, exactly? You yourself claimed that winds were slowing, and there are controversial theories about global wind stilling, yet at the same time I showed you cites projecting greater weather extremes and stronger storms and that in fact it's already happening. Even the Jennifer Francis research previously discussed about the slowing of the jet stream suggests the increased waviness of the jet stream leading to more extreme and more sustained weather events.
Jennifer Francis clarifies her claims in the ten minute video interview ... "nice" weather events will also be longer and more extreme ... and longer periods of extremely "nice" weather is "bad" for farmers trying to get their crops harvested ...

We have all the surface data we need to demonstrate the effect shown in the research paper ... yours is the extraordinary claim, please show us your extraordinary evidence ... mainstream science has "Further research will elucidate the types, locations, timing, and character of the weather changes, which will provide valuable guidance to decision‐makers in vulnerable regions." ... note that the claim is only that the Rossby Wave ridges will extend further north, the paper doesn't address whether troughs will extend further south ... and she clarifies this in the video interview that her research is focused on the higher latitudes only ... the further we get from the polar jet stream, the closer we are to the sub-tropical jet stream ...

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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Here's another one pertaining to hurricane strength.
We've discussed this before and agreed that hurricane intensity will increase 10% over the next 100 years ... one of the few areas where we can place a numerical value on the effects of global warming ... Irma made landfall near Naples FL as a 939 mb storm, in a hundred years this will be a 931 mb storm, but it's still another hour or two until this future storm makes landfall along the Everglades Parkway ... Naples itself is gone underwater ... double the number of people living there and we'll have double the human suffering ...

=====

No citation? I understand ... I've answered one of your challenges, now it your turn to answer mine ... do you agree or disagree with my explanation as to why a 4ºC increase won't cause Amazonia, The Congo or Indonesia to become deserts? ...
  #68  
Old 08-26-2018, 01:52 PM
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I'm trying to clarify the words we're using ... I'm not up-to-speed on the current wave of New Speak where "energy" means exactly the same thing as power and "bad" means exactly the same thing as good ... but if you accept the Biblical definition of good and bad then we have "God's wrath upon the people of Houston for building their mighty city upon the 6,000 graves of those who lost their lives during the Galveston Hurricane of 1900" ... but we don't need global warming to predict that Houston will flood again, and again, and again ... this is part of Houston's current climate, what change in climate is trivial compared to the change in population there ...
No, you are dissembling to cover your demonstrated ignorance on the topic. Your attempt to establish that there is a confederacy of dunces aligned here in opposition to you is belied by the progressively more convoluted pseudo-syllogisms and digressions you have employed in trying to insist that no one but yourself is aware of the true nature of climate behavior. Exactly not one person is fooled by it, and frankly I would discourage anyone from continuing to respond to your agrammatical gibberish posts and continuum of counterfactual claims.

Stranger
  #69  
Old 08-26-2018, 01:55 PM
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I'm trying to clarify the words we're using ... I'm not up-to-speed on the current wave of New Speak where "energy" means exactly the same thing as power and "bad" means exactly the same thing as good ...
It is clear that is only a few here have trouble understanding what is good or bad.

https://www.climaterealityproject.or...ange-bad-thing
Quote:
Wait, Why Is Climate Change a Bad Thing?

From our well-being to our wallets, we’re seeing the effects of a world transformed by rising temperatures and changing climate patterns.

You might be wondering, “So what if there's a little climate change? What's wrong with a couple extra days at the beach?” Or maybe popular imagery has led you to believe that climate change is an issue just for polar bears and not humans.

Unfortunately, global warming doesn’t mean more fun in the sun – in many places, it could actually get way too hot for that – and it definitely isn’t just a polar bear problem. The climate crisis is real and it’s impacting people around the world today. From our well-being to our wallets, we’re seeing the effects of a world transformed by rising temperatures and changing climate patterns, and the outlook is about as far from a relaxing seaside escape as it gets.

(Oh, and while we’re on the topic, rising sea levels may already have their eye on your favorite seaside escape.)

Here are just a few ways that climate change impacts our everyday lives:
Climate change impacts human health in countless ways, but four are worth emphasizing here:
  • Rising temperatures: As temperatures climb around the globe, we expect to see more heatwaves – and ever-more intense ones at that. Extreme heat can “overpower the human body” and cause dehydration, heatstroke, and major organ damage. And certain populations are more at risk from the impacts of heatwaves than others, including the elderly, children, and the poor.
  • Air quality: Pollution from burning fossil fuels is bad enough for the air we breathe, but many impacts of climate change also impact air quality. For instance, climate change has been linked to more wildfires. Wildfire smoke carries fine particles that “can penetrate deep into your lungs.” Exposure has been linked to burning eyes, heart and lung diseases, and even death.
  • Vector-borne diseases: Vector-borne diseases are illnesses spread by insects or arachnids like mosquitoes, fleas, mites, and ticks. As our climate becomes warmer, some insects will see their geographic ranges grow – bringing the Lyme disease and West Nile or Zika viruses they carry along with them to new regions.
  • Extreme weather: While we go into more detail on this later, climate change has been linked to many types of extreme weather, including hurricanes and floods. Not only can these extreme weather events have immediate fatal consequences, but they can lead to major injuries and the spread of waterborne illnesses such as wound infections, dermatitis, conjunctivitis, and ear, nose and throat infections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
but if you accept the Biblical definition of good and bad then we have "God's wrath upon the people of Houston for building their mighty city upon the 6,000 graves of those who lost their lives during the Galveston Hurricane of 1900" ...
Nope, can't speak for wolfpup, but I'm an agnostic, but even if I was not, it is clear that many believers do think that the rain falls on both the just and the unjust as the bible teach us; of course, like others point out later:

"The rain, it raineth on the just, and also on the unjust fella;

But mostly on the just because the unjust steals the just's umbrella!"

-Ogden Nash

Quote:
Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
but we don't need global warming to predict that Houston will flood again, and again, and again ... this is part of Houston's current climate, what change in climate is trivial compared to the change in population there ...
As it happened in Louisiana, the poor are the ones that end up the most affected. Keeping them like that, and the further the contamination of our atmosphere continues, then the poor are more likely to get more unhealthy and with less chances to advance.

So in reality this issue is also about "bad" in the biblical sense when many of the rich and powerful just insist on misleading people about this issue:

Jeremiah 5:27:
Quote:
Like a cage filled with the birds that have been caught,
their houses are filled with the gains of their fraud and deceit.
That is how they have gotten so rich and powerful.
28
That is how they have grown fat and sleek.
There is no limit to the evil things they do.
They do not plead the cause of the fatherless in such a way as to win it.
They do not defend the rights of the poor.
29
I will certainly punish them for doing such things!” says the Lord.
“I will certainly bring retribution on such a nation as this!

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-26-2018 at 01:58 PM.
  #70  
Old 08-26-2018, 01:57 PM
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wolfpup wolfpup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
I'm trying to clarify the words we're using. I'm not up-to-speed on the current wave of New Speak where "energy" means exactly the same thing as power and "bad" means exactly the same thing as good ...

... Mainstream science has "Particular causes are difficult to implicate, but these sorts of occurrences are consistent with the analysis and mechanism presented in this study." this kind of language is common in the scientific literature, so perhaps you mean "mainstream supermarket tabloid literature"?

... I've answered one of your challenges, now it your turn to answer mine. do you agree or disagree with my explanation as to why a 4ºC increase won't cause Amazonia, The Congo or Indonesia to become deserts?
For clarity let me say that in the above quotes and in the ones that follow I have replaced your ridiculous flood of ellipses with single periods in order to avoid ambiguity when I use ellipses properly to indicate omitted irrelevant content.

No, you have not answered the challenge. You have, in fact, continued the complete incoherency so well described in this remark. This is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance and that's what it's continually necessary to do, it seems, whenever you post about climate change.

Your attempt at digression about "energy" vs. "power" is so completely ridiculous and irrelevant that it reminds me of another discussion demonstrating your lack of scientific knowledge that I'll get to in a moment. Solar energy in the form of insolation incident upon the earth is absorbed and stored in the land, atmosphere, and oceans, and the latent heat of evaporation and evapotranspiration, which is why we speak of the earth's energy budget and how greenhouse gas forcing increases the energy of climate systems. We don't speak of the earth's "power budget". Energy is stored, power is not; power is the rate at which these higher energies are dissipated in potentially stronger storms, heavier rainfalls, circulation changes, and concentrated heat waves.

The bullshit that is particularly of concern here is the sort of scientifically irresponsible abject ignorance displayed in post #13 where you state, in part:
... if pressure, relative humidity, precipitation rates and timing, and wind speed and direction do not change a few degrees increase in temperature does not change climate except for a few narrow bands ... Missouri farmers will have a week or two longer growing season in 100 years ... Global warming won't cause bad things to happen
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...3&postcount=13
Needless to say, it's completely ludicrous to believe that all those factors will remain unchanged in the face of climate forcing resulting from the highest concentrations of atmospheric CO2 since the first human-like creatures walked upon the earth, or that the climate will remain stable and benign under the influence of sustained forcings a couple of orders of magnitude greater than normally found in nature. Hence the projections of responsible scientific organizations that climate change will lead, not to the benign absurdities you claim, but to increased damage from floods and storms and rising sea levels, heat waves, water stresses, droughts, and desertification in other areas, more extreme weather and stronger storms, increased burdens from the spread of diseases and pests, loss of biodiversity and the onset of major extinctions, and major losses of agricultural yields, among many others. In short, to increasing global catastrophe commensurate with the magnitude of rapid temperature rise.

The bullshit that you've spouted here reminds me of a previous discussion, as I said earlier, where you stated that "forcing is the energy leaving the atmosphere out into space". This clearly demonstrates yet again that you have absolutely zero understanding of one of the most important and fundamental concepts in climate science. The subsequent conversation in that thread is a most entertaining read!

Furthermore, a little further on in that same thread you made exactly the same pronouncement that you repeated here about how awesomely benign and beneficial climate change will be (emphasis mine):
I think the globe is warming, as scientifically demonstrated ...
I think man may contribute to this warming, as being scientifically demonstrated ...
I believe this is a good thing
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=107
Followed by this priceless gem:
water vapor is the primary driver of average global temperatures
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=129
To be clear, water vapor is an important climate feedback affecting temperature and climate in myriad ways, but to call it a "driver" of global temperatures is the kind of elementary confusion of basic fundamental terminology that makes one's head spin. Here's a chart of all the major human and natural drivers of global temperature. Please explain to us why ordinary tropospheric water vapor -- which you claim to be "the primary driver of average global temperatures" is nowhere to be found on it.

As for your last question, that nitpick on a minor side issue has nothing to do with the present discussion, but you apparently didn't notice that I already addressed it in post #63, specifically the third paragraph.
  #71  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:13 PM
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Curse these 5-minute edit windows! In my last post I forgot to highlight again that in addition to all your claims cited there about how wonderful climate change will be for all, and how with regard to the catastrophic effects of rapid climate change you state "I believe this is a good thing", to this you added the equally preposterous bullshit that "weather will be more moderated in a warmer world".

I can't see why you bother posting glaringly wrong, unscientific, easily disproven counterfactual bullshit about things you obviously know nothing about.
  #72  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:35 PM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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The Moderator Clears His Throat

It's happened a few times in this thread so I would like to make something clear.

Please don't disparage other posters reasons for posting or call into question that they should post. Challenge their ideas and posts, please don't try to prevent them from making those posts.
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