fragging officers (throwing hand grenades) has already started in the war on Iraq. How many fragging incidents occured in Viet Nam?
Some. Not as many as myth would have it.
I think ExTank could better answer this question. I’m pretty sure it’s come up before on the SDMB.
Peace,
mangeorge
ummm…cite? link? clue? anything?
According to http://home.mweb.co.za/re/redcap/vietcrim.htm , there were 1,103 reported fragging incidents in the Army from 1969-1972.
Maybe. I got out (USN, amphibious) in early '68, and my contact was with Marines.
Well I’ll be; I’d never heard of either the word or the practice of “fragging” (well, in a non-gamer sense) until this thread came along. I already saw the news story about this recent incident, but would never have guessed ambushing superiors was somewhat common. Just to clarify for those (like me) who might not know what exactly the word entails, the OED says:
and from one of their cites:
In WWII, my father said it was common to shoot such men in the back of the head. Those that survived were given non-combat positions. He is dead now but I think he referred to such people as simply having been shot in the back. This occurred to I believe his company commander whortly after landing in France and he met the man accidentally in an administrive position later on in the war.
Hopefully someone who fought at that time can do a better job of this than I, who can only repeat what I heard.
Actually I recall Braxton Bragg surivied a fragging attempt in Vera Cruz in '46. Someone rolled a lit artillery shell into his tent.
Supposedly he was called “Boom-Boom” Bragg for years later.
Current events inspired me also to check out the subject: see Mutiny, Fragging and Desertions in the U.S. Military. No idea of the reliability of the document - but we know now that it happens…
You must be young (I am too). I wonder if this is one of those generation gap things.
Young has nothing to do with it, Peepthis & Asterion. It’s possible to know about a lot of things that happened before you were born.
Yeah, read raygirvan’s link, all of it, before it get’s deleted.
Scary shit.
Errr, pardon? A lit artillery shell?
A friend of mine in the DoD told me the original reason for the creation of the Marine Corps in the 18th century was to put down naval mutinies. So many sailors in those days were impressed, held there against their will, and treated like animals, that mutiny was a very real threat to naval officers. The Marines were brought in as troops of unquestionable loyalty in order to protect those officers. The Marines were a force to protect the officers from their own men.
When I look up histories of the Marine Corps, they don’t go into this somewhat unpleasant aspect.
But it does lend significance to the Marine Band being called “the President’s Own”— because their loyalty is directly to the C in C. And the line in the “Marines’ Hymn” where they taunt the Army and Navy that the Marines get to guard Heaven.
This is relevant to the OP in that it shows how enlisted men turning on their own officers goes a long way back.
I know of incidents in Viet Nam where a warning would be given. They would deliver a note and a grenade pin to a disliked officer.
The note said…this time you get the pin and we get the grenade…next time…you get the grenade and we get the pin.
Not what I meant. This particular phrase made it into gaming lingo. Considering most students don’t get a good education on Vietnam, it’s not surprising that the older use wouldn’t be known.
Nice anecdote. One assumes that there must have been a rash of mutinies or killings before the Maries were formed. Any cites?
When did the phrase “the President’s Own” start? When was the “Marines’ Hymn” written?
Sorry, Asterion. Didn’t mean to be snide. Know the gaming lingo – I have 4 sons. I over-reacted because I work with kids who say “Frank Sinatra? who’s that?”
Personally I’ve just never heard of the practice of fragging from any schooling or books I’ve been through on Vietnam. Maybe it’d do me good to get my hands on some first-hand accounts from the war.
Now that there’s no excuse for.
In the wee small hours of the morning is when I post most of all,
peepthis