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Old 05-16-2003, 11:58 PM
chuckster chuckster is offline
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Are there ANY movie stars of the 30's, 40's and 50's who did NOT smoke?

The film industry has long been criticised (sp?) for promoting smoking in our culture by making it look cool and glamerous, at the expense of the health of our population. It seems every major star smoked on the screen at one time or other. Even stars that you would think had a homely reputation (James Stewart, Judy Garland for exemple) smoked in their private lives, if not on screen. Even today most stars, it seems, smoke. I have heard of a few movie stars who do not smoke, but their careers date from the 60's on. What is this thing about the movie industry and smoking? And, are there ANY stars of the golden age of film who did not smoke?
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Old 05-17-2003, 12:32 AM
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It seems like every major star smoked because at the time pretty much everyone in urban areas did smoke. At least the men. Once you exclude religious groups etc who were unlikely to accept acting work anyway, I don’t think the number of smoking stars would be any higher than the number of people in the general population,

The attitudes to smoking in the 1st half of the century were different to those of today. The health effects were less well known for one thing. The idea that everyman type stars like Stewart should be less likely to smoke doesn’t fit well with the attitude of the day where everyman did smoke, a pipe if nothing else.
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Old 05-17-2003, 01:55 AM
MaryEFoo MaryEFoo is offline
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Smoking gives an actor "business" to do during a pause--the hands light the cigarette, the cigarette is drawn on, smoke drifts past a face, etc.....Nobody is supposed to be reminded of lung cancer.

Is there any evidence that the studios took tobacco money for product placement?
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:11 AM
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Shirley Temple?
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:21 AM
Blake Blake is offline
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Remember, Shirley made a few movies as an adult. She may have smoked in those.
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Old 05-17-2003, 10:14 AM
Ezstrete Ezstrete is offline
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movie smokers

Those movies,and those of the 20's also,depicted a very normal[?]
piece of life for most of the world.

Smoking was common among all walks----------enjoyed by clergy, medical practitioners,nurses,mothers,fathers,policemen,media personalities,soldiers,sailors,marines-----Darn near everybody!

[Ash trays were standard equipment in doctor's waiting rooms]

A lot of them/us are still kicking around in our eighties-------having out lasted a depression ,a few wars------and all of the anti-smoking propaganda of our present time.

According to all of what we hear today we all should have disappeared by out 40th birthday!

Our evil habit is now considered to be for responsible for everything except for,possibly,PMS

Go figure!
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Old 05-17-2003, 11:08 AM
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I watched Wild at Heart on the tube last night. If that film doesn't make smoking look attractive, nothing does.
It's a good thing the local Speedy Mart was closed.
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Old 05-17-2003, 11:27 AM
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Nobody thought there was anything wrong with smoking until the 1960s, so there was no reason not to portray it. It also did give the actors something to do when speaking their lines, one of the reasons why you still see a lot of smokers onscreen today.

Since nearly everyone smoked, it wasn't odd to see people smoking on screen.
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Old 05-17-2003, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blake
Remember, Shirley made a few movies as an adult. She may have smoked in those.
She didn't.

Other actors who did not smoke include James Cagney, Johnny Weismuller, Joel McCrea, Tony Randall, Jeffrey Hunter, Pat Boone.

Quote:
It seems like every major star smoked because at the time pretty much everyone in urban areas did smoke. At least the men.
Smoking peaked in the United States in 1965. For men, the highest number was 52%. For women, the highest number was 34%.
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Old 05-17-2003, 11:50 AM
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Did Cary Grant smoke onscreen? I remember reading that he hated it in his personal life.
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:26 PM
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I've seen Walloon's stats before, and I doubt their accuracy. I was 20 in '65, and it seem's to me that a lot more than half of the men I knew, or even just saw, smoked. I know mine is a small sample, but it did include a pretty good variety of people.
Remember the early non-smoking areas in restaurants? They were pretty small, IIRC.
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:52 PM
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This page cites the 1964 Surgeon General's Report as the source for a statement that in 1961 "68% of all males in the United States over the age of 18 were smokers."

Somewhere else I've seen a figure of 75% for the period of WWII, but I can't find that now.

I never saw Howdy Doody with a butt.
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:52 PM
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Two big stars popped to mind


Rin Tin Tin and Lassie
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Old 05-17-2003, 04:50 PM
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Tony Randall, who has already been cited was, IIRC, an opponent
of smoking from way back. In the 70s he was widely considered odd or eccentric for giving Johnny Carson trouble about smoking while on air; time change.

Debbie Reynolds was vehement in her opposition to smoking at least by the early 70s, and demanded that a cigarette company be barred from sponsoring her short-lived TV show. I believe that her opposition to smoking was already of long standing.

As for not smoking on screen, there were any number of stars who did not because of the peculiarities of the roles they portrayed. Johnny Weissmuller and Sabu come to mind immediately.
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Old 05-17-2003, 05:05 PM
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i'm thinking of freddy bartholomew and mickey rooney.
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Old 05-17-2003, 05:51 PM
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Op-ed page article by Kirk Douglas in yesterday's NY Times, in which he descibes how he never smoked as a student or as a Broadway actor, but how Lewis Milestone asked him to light up during the filming of The Strange Love of Martha Ivers, his first Hollywood picture, in 1946. By 1950 he'd quit smoking for good.

Quote:
Is there any evidence that the studios took tobacco money for product placement? [/B]
Kirk mentions that cig companies provided him with free cartons of product during his smoking years.

RealityChuck: Hey, don't you remember "smoking stunts your growth" ?
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Old 05-17-2003, 05:58 PM
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Mae West was a health fanatic who wouldn't even let anyone smoke near her, as far back as the 1930s. When she had to smoke onscreen, she had special "empty" cigarettes made up.

This is going back a bit further, but Anna Held also did not smoke and asked people not to smoke near her.
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Old 05-17-2003, 06:26 PM
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Hey, don't you remember "smoking stunts your growth" ?
I remember that, Ukulele Ike. I think clichés like that were an outward manifestation of the common sense that told us that sucking smoke into our bodies had to be bad.
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Old 05-17-2003, 06:40 PM
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My own grandmother never smoked a day in her life. However, as a flapper, in the '20's, it was sooooo daring and bold (for a woman) to smoke. There are several pictures of her holding a cigarette...albeit in ebony cigarette holders. Looking Joan Crawford cool, I assure you.

I'm not sure about movie stars, but during the 50's-60's television era, the male stars smoked like chimneys, as a rule. The ladies (like June Cleaver, Donna Reed, etc.) didn't.

Lucille Ball did smoke in her earlier days on "I Love Lucy", but not as much during the "Lucy & Desi Comedy Hour" and not at all (that I remember) during her much later shows.

And wasn't Larry Hagman another fanatical non-smoker? I seem to recall little fans he'd whip out (in public!) if somebody lit up near him. I don't remember anybody on the set of "I Dream of Jeannie" smoking, and only one or two other cast members of "Dallas" being smokers. Of course, this was in the 80's...when smoking was becoming unstylish.
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Old 05-17-2003, 10:53 PM
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Cartoons were also non cigarette free those years; I reacall many W. Disney and other producer´s cartoons were characters smoked quite a bit.
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Old 05-18-2003, 01:00 AM
Tim@T-Bonham.net Tim@T-Bonham.net is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RealityChuck
Nobody thought there was anything wrong with smoking until the 1960s
Well, this quote from King James I of England, from the year 1604, sure sounds like he thought there was something wrong with smoking:
Quote:
A custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse.
(See here for the full "Counterblaste to Tobacco".)

And it looks to me that he was pretty accurate on the health effects, some 350 years before the Surgeon General's report!
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:25 PM
StreetFighter2Ryu StreetFighter2Ryu is offline
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In Hollywood, James Cagney, Joe E. Brown, Janet Gaynor, Anita Louise, Roy Roberts, Vinton Hayworth, Colleen Moore, Gene Autry, Clayton Moore, Roy Rogers, Bob Hope, Robert Cummings, Nehemiah Persoff, Julie Adams, Ann Robinson, Mamie Van Doren, Sam Jaffe, William Boyd, Brian Donlevy, Joel Mccrea, Joan Leslie, David Niven, Otis Harlan, Mae West, Karl Malden, Jennifer Jones, Tex Higginson, and Eva Marie Saint were all non-smokers.

In the Philippines, Cesar Ramirez, Anita Linda, Ruben Rustia, and Lotta Delgado were all non-smokers.

Of the 1954 Japanese film Seven Samurai, Daisuke Kato and Minoru Chiaki were the only title character actors who were non-smokers. The others (Toshiro Mifune, Takashi Shimura, Seiji Miyaguchi, Yoshio Inaba, and Isao Kimura) smoked heavily. Ken Takakura was one Japanese actor who was a non-smoker (he started acting in 1956).
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:34 PM
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Two big stars popped to mind


Rin Tin Tin and Lassie
Long Ranger horse Sliver didn't smoke !
  #24  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:11 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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...Lucille Ball did smoke in her earlier days on "I Love Lucy", but not as much during the "Lucy & Desi Comedy Hour" and not at all (that I remember) during her much later shows...
Phillip Morris sponsored I Love Lucy in the early seasons, but they long gone by the Comedy Hour era. Both the Arnazes did commericals for them and in one episode Lucy even dressed up as Johnny the Bellhop.
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:03 AM
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Well, technically, none of them smokes.
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:17 AM
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Cartoons were also non cigarette free those years; I reacall many W. Disney and other producer´s cartoons were characters smoked quite a bit.
The Flintstones was sponsored by Winston in its earlier seasons and Fred & Barney featured in a few fully animated ad spots, along with several intraepisode quick spots.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:22 AM
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So, are there any films in which zombies smoke?
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:17 AM
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So, are there any films in which zombies smoke?
Only after they're set on fire.
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:54 PM
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RealityChuck: Hey, don't you remember "smoking stunts your growth" ?
I remember that line from my childhood. I think the reason was that it was believed that smoking killed appetite. Obviously a still-growing teenager who needed to eat to grow would be affected. Not sure if it was a myth or not, or whether it had been studied, but you can see many examples of folks gaining weight when quitting the habit. May of course be due to increased nervousness and anxiety and the desire to do something with hands and mouth...
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:21 PM
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Well, this quote from King James I of England, from the year 1604, sure sounds like he thought there was something wrong with smoking:
(See here for the full "Counterblaste to Tobacco".)

And it looks to me that he was pretty accurate on the health effects, some 350 years before the Surgeon General's report!
Didn't also say, at that time, that he wanted to ban it completely, as he was a monarch?

And didn't they say at the time, that he can do it at any time. Just so long as he has a way of making up the vast tax income the habit and its support provided?

And didn't obviously cave in to that objection?

We may need better statistics, but for people who have disposable income, opportunity to make the purchase, the habit may be more ubiquitous than the mere 45%.
  #31  
Old 08-04-2017, 01:36 PM
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Is there any evidence that the studios took tobacco money for product placement?

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/20/us...emos-show.html
Company Spent $1 Million to Put Cigarettes in Movies, Memos Show
By PHILIP J. HILTS
Published: May 20, 1994

WASHINGTON, May 19— An unusual glimpse into the business of both Hollywood and tobacco companies has been afforded by internal memorandums from the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corporation. They show that the company spent a million dollars over four years to put images of its cigarettes into movies.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...orsements.html

Tobacco giants paid movie stars vast sums for endorsements
Tobacco companies paid movie stars vast sums of money to endorse their products in the 1930s and 1940s, a new study has found.


https://smokefreemovies.ucsf.edu/history
History | Tobacco's history in Hollywood
The U.S. tobacco industry has a long, documented history of collaborating with the U.S. film industry to promote smoking and tobacco brands. The history includes four main periods:

1920s to 1950s | From the advent of talking pictures to the end of the so-called "studio system," tobacco companies provided most of the national advertising for Hollywood films in newspapers and magazines and on radio. They also put most Hollywood stars under advertising contracts.

1950s to 1970 | As television eclipsed movies, the tobacco companies bought and sponsored their own programs. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, despite tobacco industry efforts to cover up the facts, the public learned more about the health risks of smoking — and cigarettes lost some of their on-screen glamour.

After 1970 | In 1971, the U.S. banned broadcast advertising of tobacco products. The tobacco companies then returned to systematic product placement campaigns in Hollywood, affecting hundreds of mainstream movies. For strategic tobacco marketers, it was at least as important to get smoking back into the hands of stars as it was to push a particular brand.


http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=432509
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:25 PM
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When doing period piece movies of the 30s and 40s , must include people holding cigarettes for realism
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:25 PM
Tim@T-Bonham.net Tim@T-Bonham.net is offline
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When doing period piece movies of the 30s and 40s , must include people holding cigarettes for realism
Not realism -- that was just propaganda paid for by tobacco companies. They wanted people to think that everybody smoked, especially sophisticated celebrities.

Factually, I don't think there has ever been a time when a majority of Americans smoked. The highest seems to be during WWII, when servicemen could get cigarettes nearly free, and during the early Cold War -- then something like 40-45% of the population smoked. Still less than half the people. Now it's down to about 16-18% -- about 1 in 6 people. (Meanwhile, smoking marijuana has gone up to nearly 10% among young people; more of them smoke pot than tobacco.)

[Note that in the 1920's and 30's, surveys & statistics on smoking were rarely done; estimates have to be made from cigarette sales, etc.]
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:16 AM
Lorne Armstrong Lorne Armstrong is offline
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Nobody thought there was anything wrong with smoking until the 1960s,
The only positive thing to come out of Germany in the 1930s was an anti-tobacco program.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:27 AM
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Nobody thought there was anything wrong with smoking until the 1960s, so there was no reason not to portray it.
Can't have zombie errors lurching around.

"Franz Hermann Müller at Cologne Hospital in 1939 published the first such study (correlating smoking with lung cancer), comparing 86 lung cancer ‘cases’ and a similar number of cancer-free controls.4 Müller was able to show that people with lung cancer were far more likely than non-cancer controls to have smoked, a fact confirmed by Eberhard Schairer and Eric Schöniger at the University of Jena in an even more ambitious study from 1943.5 These German results were subsequently verified and amplified by UK and American scholars: in 1950 alone, five separate epidemiological studies were published, including papers by Ernst Wynder and Evarts Graham in the USA and Richard Doll and A Bradford Hill in England. All confirmed this growing suspicion, that smokers of cigarettes were far more likely to contract lung cancer than non-smokers. Further confirmation came shortly thereafter from a series of prospective ‘cohort’ studies, conducted to eliminate the possibility of recall bias. The theory here was that by following two separate and initially healthy groups over time, one smoking and one non-smoking, matched by age, sex, occupation and other relevant traits, you could find out whether smoking was a factor in the genesis of lung disease. The results were unequivocal: Doll and Hill in 1954 concluded that smokers of 35 or more cigarettes per day increased their odds of dying from lung cancer by a factor of 40."

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/21/2/87
  #36  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:12 AM
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I'm pretty sure Irene Dunne was a non-smoker, and she was extremely popular in the late 1930s. In fact, she was ranked #1 for years. Why she's less well-remembered than other actors is complicated, but it has to do with the large number of her films that were remade, making the originals inaccessible until home video in the 80s and 90s.

Audrey Hepburn was a heavy smoker, and she survived the Dutch hongerwinter. She once said that sometimes cigarettes were available when food wasn't. I'll bet something similar was true during the Depression. Cigarettes used to be very cheap.

Also, according to my mother, b. 1940, it was common that lots of people smoked at parties or events, but were not daily smokers. There were probably lots of stars for whom that was true as well. Now, no one does that because we know smoking is bad for you, so unless you are addicted, you don't do it. But I'll bet few non-smoking stars would object to lighting up for a part, the way one might do now.
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:47 PM
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You can see in recent movies and made for TV on offs which actors are real life smokers and which are not in just their mannerisms etc..

Not many actors who are popular enough to cut all smoking scenes or the won't act the part. Show business is getting to hard to stay in the top with all the competition. Fake cigs and fake smoking seem more the norm now.

YMMV
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:49 PM
Tim@T-Bonham.net Tim@T-Bonham.net is offline
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But I'll bet few non-smoking stars would object to lighting up for a part, the way one might do now.
Actually, it's becoming fairly common to provide either non-tobacco 'cigarettes' or e-cigarettes to actors when the part requires them to smoke. Especially in live theatre & local productions, and schools. Not so much in big-budget Hollywood movies.

This seems to be more about liability worries of the producing company -- fear that 10 years from now the actor who gets cancer will sue your company.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:00 PM
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Can't have zombie errors lurching around.

"Franz Hermann Müller at Cologne Hospital in 1939 published the first such study (correlating smoking with lung cancer)...
And the Oxford English Dictionary's first citation for the term "cancer stick" to mean cigarette is from 1958. (And with such slang terms, the first printed use presumably postdates the first use in everyday speech by some time.) From the same source, "coffin-nail" for cigarette goes back to at least as early as 1888.
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:27 PM
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In Hollywood, James Cagney, Joe E. Brown, Janet Gaynor, Anita Louise, Roy Roberts, Vinton Hayworth, Colleen Moore, Gene Autry, Clayton Moore, Roy Rogers, Bob Hope, Robert Cummings, Nehemiah Persoff, Julie Adams, Ann Robinson, Mamie Van Doren, Sam Jaffe, William Boyd, Brian Donlevy, Joel Mccrea, Joan Leslie, David Niven, Otis Harlan, Mae West, Karl Malden, Jennifer Jones, Jimmy James, and Eva Marie Saint were all non-smokers.

In the Philippines, Cesar Ramirez, Anita Linda, Ruben Rustia, and Lotta Delgado were all non-smokers.

Of the 1954 Japanese film Seven Samurai, Daisuke Kato and Minoru Chiaki were the only title character actors who were non-smokers. The others (Toshiro Mifune, Takashi Shimura, Seiji Miyaguchi, Yoshio Inaba, and Isao Kimura) smoked heavily. Ken Takakura was one Japanese actor who was a non-smoker (he started acting in 1956).
Other non-smokers were Fay Wray, Eddie Albert (of Green Acres fame), Ed Begley Sr., Sidney Poitier, Maureen O'Hara, Charlton Heston, Dolores del Rio, Johnny Weissmuller, Neil Hamilton, Cyd Charisse, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, Red Skelton, and Alan Napier.
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:37 PM
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There was that co-star of Ronald Reagan's. What was his name? Ah yes, Bonzo.
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Old 08-08-2017, 12:39 AM
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Smoking gives an actor "business" to do during a pause--the hands light the cigarette, the cigarette is drawn on, smoke drifts past a face, etc.....Nobody is supposed to be reminded of lung cancer.

Is there any evidence that the studios took tobacco money for product placement?
IIRC product placement is a very new thing. The "fake brands" used when there was a need for a brand in a show was a running gag I remember in the 60's.

OTOH, the brands were mentioned live on air by the stars of the day or radio or TV.

There's the story of WC Fields, whose show was sponsored by Lucky Strike. He kept telling stories and jokes about his son Chester. Everyone was mystified for a while, since he had no kids, until someone figured out that maybe Lucky Strike didn't want to be sponsoring a show with stories about "Chester Fields".
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Old 08-08-2017, 04:46 PM
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My father went off a non-smoker in 1918 to fight the Bosch on the Western Front and returned a smoker, although not a heavy one. He said that cigarettes were free and that the Knights of Columbus had huge boxes of cigarettes and you could take as many as you wanted. No doubt, these were donated by cigarette companies.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:08 PM
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I don't remember anybody on the set of "I Dream of Jeannie" smoking
Well, how did Jeannie get into her bottle then?
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:14 PM
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Not realism -- that was just propaganda paid for by tobacco companies. They wanted people to think that everybody smoked, especially sophisticated celebrities.

Factually, I don't think there has ever been a time when a majority of Americans smoked. The highest seems to be during WWII, when servicemen could get cigarettes nearly free, and during the early Cold War -- then something like 40-45% of the population smoked. Still less than half the people. Now it's down to about 16-18% -- about 1 in 6 people. (Meanwhile, smoking marijuana has gone up to nearly 10% among young people; more of them smoke pot than tobacco.)

[Note that in the 1920's and 30's, surveys & statistics on smoking were rarely done; estimates have to be made from cigarette sales, etc.]
Would those figures include only the adult population? Lots of adults and even more teens only smoke when they go out.

Last edited by Nava; 08-08-2017 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehearingaid View Post
Long Ranger horse Sliver didn't smoke !
And, very unfairly, still didn't get any screen time in the movie named after him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliver_(film)
  #47  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:21 AM
Cayuga Cayuga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Not realism -- that was just propaganda paid for by tobacco companies. They wanted people to think that everybody smoked, especially sophisticated celebrities.

Factually, I don't think there has ever been a time when a majority of Americans smoked. The highest seems to be during WWII, when servicemen could get cigarettes nearly free, and during the early Cold War -- then something like 40-45% of the population smoked. Still less than half the people. Now it's down to about 16-18% -- about 1 in 6 people. (Meanwhile, smoking marijuana has gone up to nearly 10% among young people; more of them smoke pot than tobacco.)

[Note that in the 1920's and 30's, surveys & statistics on smoking were rarely done; estimates have to be made from cigarette sales, etc.]
As mangeorge said 13 years ago, those stats don't pass the smell test. During my childhood in the early to mid-1960s, I met dozens of my parents' friends, and the total number of non-smokers among them was 2. I'm usually the last person to argue via personal anecdotes, but given that neither of my parents worked for a tobacco company, it seems to me that either smoking rates on Long Island were much, much higher than in the country as a whole, or the statistics cited above are incorrect.

Is it possible that they meant 40–45% of the population as a whole, including infants, children, etc.?

As for tobacco industry "propaganda," I'm afraid I can't follow any of the above links right now, but if, say, RJ Reynolds was paying producers to get their actors to smoke on-screen, their goal wasn't to get people to buy cigarettes, but to get people to buy RJ Reynolds cigarettes.
  #48  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:58 AM
Common Tater Common Tater is offline
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The radio programs (a huge industry then, televisions were fairly rare, but everybody had a radio) of the 40s thru the 60s were very often sponsored by the tobacco companies. Fatima was a big name then, responsible for Dragnet, later Chesterfield.

One thing I wondered about, during World War II just about everything (as in every thing) was rationed in the continental US, though I'm not sure about tobacco or cigarettes. I suspect they were not rationed but they were impossible to get. American cigarettes were widely considered the best and in high demand.
  #49  
Old 08-09-2017, 12:32 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is online now
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Tobacco and cigarettes were apparently not rationed in the U.S. during WWII, although there were some shortages as a substantial chunk of output was allocated for the troops: http://www.ameshistory.org/content/r...g-world-war-ii
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