“Cat Balou” was on TV last night. Lee Marvin won an Oscar for his portrayal of “Kid Shaleen” in this film. (Could John Wayne have even come close to portraying such a character ?)
Anyone who is familiar with some of my postings will know I am NOT a John Wayne fan.
Personally, I think Lee Marvin was without a doubt the better actor. Contrast his performance with that of John Wayne’s in “Man Who Shot Liberty Valance”. Lee Marvin is a real bad guy, nasty, villain type in this film. Whenever he’s onscreen he has a very commanding presence and it seems as if he is evil and menace personified. He has a more reserved acting syle than Wayne and as the saying goes “sometimes, less is more”.
Incidentally, John Wayne was originally slated to star in the “Dirty Dozen” but he opted instead to do the cinematic classic “Green Berets” and the role went to Lee Marvin.
So, I guess I have 2 questions:
**
Do you think Lee Marvin or John Wayne is the better actor ?
What do you think the “Dirty Dozen” would have been like with John Wayne in the Lee Marvin role ?**
(Personally, I also admire Lee Marvin because he was a WW2 hero, wounded in the battle of Saipan and is now buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
John Wayne only “played” soldier and never served a day in the real military. Want to know more? Search Cecil’s archive).
Not only is Marvin the better actor (though people often underestimate Wayne’s gifts), but his filmography is much more interesting than Wayne’s: The Big Heat, The Big Red One, Point Blank, Emperor of the North Pole, The Iceman Cometh, Hell in the Pacific, Bad Day at Black Rock, Seven Men from Now, The Professionals. Wayne has few notable films that didn’t involve John Ford or Howard Hawks.
It’s funny that both won Oscars for playing parodic variations of their screen images (as did Bogie; how’s that for a tough guy threesome?).
I concur with ArchiveGuy’s assessment of both men. Lee Marvin had a much broader range, Wayne had the epic mythos. And Lee Marvin could never have been The Quiet Man.
Although the thought of Marvin spanking Maureen O’Hara in the town square is pretty hot.
I was just thinking the other day: Why would you put together an army of convicts to infiltrate an enemy-held castle when you could just bomb it down? Is there an answer given in the movie?
Not at all. I’ve seen Fort Apache. And although his politics seemed a little too jingoistic at times for my taste, I don’t judge him or his movies solely by that. (In fact, I allow his political predilections to be a benefit, not a debit, from him as an actor, because I personally like to watch the Big Tough Marine Save the World. The fact that he never “saved the world” in real life doesn’t change my opinion of his acting.)
But in many of his lesser films, he seemed more like a caricature, chewing scenery. That’s not to say that every film in which he did this was a laugher, though; I’m just saying that his acting was less acting and more playing a persona in many films.
As for the more general question… Lee Marvin and John Wayne were both very effective within a limited range of roles. And, as someone else noted, it’s ironic that both won Oscars for silly roles in mediocre films that didn’t come close to representing their best work (“Cat Ballou” bored me from start to finish, and “True Grit” is often embarrassing, as many of Wayne’s later films were).
Which was the better actor? Well, as I said, both could be brilliant in the right role, but both could be ridiculously bad when they attempted roles outside their normal range. All in all, though, Wayne made MANY more great films than Marvin did.
Incidentally, it baffles me why people would judge an actor’s performance by his politics or his personal life. But for you lefties who choose to mock John Wayne’s films because he wasn’t really the war hero he often played in films…
Neville Brand WAS a genuine war hero- does that make him a great actor? (NO!)
In real life, Henry Fonda was far from the warm, devoted father he often played in movies. in reality, he was a lousy husband and a cold, distant father. Do you rant about what a “hypocrite” that made him? If not, why not?
What do you think of right-wingers who deny themselves the pleasures of watching “Bull Durham” because they detest SusanSarandon’s politics? You think they’re pretty silly, eh? What makes YOU different, when you rail against John Wayne.
Folks- John Wayne, Neville Brand, Susan Sarandon and Henry Fonda were/are ACTORS. Nothing more, nothing less. Try to judge them accordingly. By all means, take their political rants with a grain of salt, but don’t let extraneous issues determine what you think of their performances.
I HAD to learn this lesson a long time ago- after all, if I let my right-wing politics determine what movies I watched or what music I listened to, I’d be stuck with, what… Sammy Hagar? Donny & Marie? Old Charlton Heston movies?
At SOME point, you GOTTA shrug and say “it’s just a movie (or song, or whatever).”
Astorian, I will admit that John Wayne’s personality probably biases my view of his acting abilities. AND you can call me one of those “lefties” if you want to, but what really bothered me about John Wayne, even more than his Super-Patriot right-wing politics, was the fact that he carried his screen image into real life. By that I mean, did you EVER him hims say “I really didn’t serve in the military” ? NO - he kept up a pretense that he MUST have been in some military branch, at sometime, doing something. And even if someone did find out he had NO military service record, the rumors “leaked out” - he was too old, he had a high school football injury, he had an ear infection (which the IMDB continues to have on their board even as I post this).
What did he say on one comedy show - something like - “the sky is blue, the grass is green, get off your ass and join the Marines.”
Makes me wonder, why the Hell didn’t YOU join the Marines “Duke”? Guess he didn’t want to get off his ass.
Yes, someone’s personal life should NOT affect their acting abilities. However, about 5 years ago, when Anne Heche and Harisson Ford were in “Six Days Seven Nights” there were a lot of people saying how unrealistic it was because Ms Heche happened to be in a lesbian relationship at the time. (And that discussion really got a LOT of air time on TV). And (at least of the discussions I heard), no one even brought up John Wayne !!! Sheesh, give me a f**king break !!!
As a slightly unrelated aside (otherwise known as a hijack): I had a history professor who would make Noam Chomsky look like a centrist, but he worshipped John Wayne. Apprarently, he was won over by John Wayne’s stance during the Patricia Hearst to-do in the press (consult your history books, youngsters). Apparently, John Wayne’s stance was that the poor girl should be held responsible after being locked in a closet for weeks. This was a pretty compassionate view given a lot of the right-wing mouth-frothing at the time.
Very obvious many posting here dont know squat. Wayne was actually a VERY good shot with 6shooter & rifle. Practiced often. Also, because of a knee & shoulder injury, he was supposedly denied in ww2 & asked to do uso stuff. Many have argued this over the years but he was always big supporters of the men who served. He was never a man too be disrespected. He knocked out frank sinatra body guard who did so. If he was your friend he WAS your friend! As far as acting, that your opinion. If you watch his career progress, he got better & better. Quiet man he was perfect. Red river & the searchers he played a dark character & did so beautifully. Sands of iwo jima & flying leather necks? Stand out. Although he didnt love riding horses he was an excellent rider. Younger days he played in many very good movies that weren’t westerns & handled them convincingly. Marvin was great as well but to say he was better? I’d disagree. Remember also, in the 60’s Wayne had a lung removed due to cancer & wasnt healthy for years. Guy was the real mccoy! Those days, those actors & actresses, were the best ever! We’ll never see the beauty of the craft excell like that again. Classic>present.
didn’t unca cecil answer the why wasn’t wayne in ww2 question himself ?
interesting note according to the av press back in the late 20s early 30s there was a small note on page 4 (it only had 6 pages heh) that
“after a community barn dance one Saturday at 11 pm that some of the community ladies detained a man for allegedly riding a drunk horse because the horse had a unsteady gait … upon further inquiry it was found that one Marion Morrison was riding a slighly crosseyed horse and was here in the valley filming a “modestly budgeted western” outside of town andno fines or charges were filed”