Straight Dope Message Board

[I Love Me, Vol. I]

Inspired by this thread:

In my home metropolis and in other areas of the USA and also Europe, I see many, many more white male/Asian female couples than I see white female/Asian male couples.

Have you noticed this where you live? If yes, why do you think is this so?

[friedo]

[tasteless joke]
Because all the white girls are dating black guys!
[/tasteless joke]

Naw, I can't say I've noticed the same thing myself. (Both about the OP and the white girl/black guy stereotype too).

[lilbtagna]

I'm an Asian female who is currently in a wonderful relationship with a Caucasian male. Also, a fewof my Asian girl friends have dated only white guys.

Based on the Asian males I have known, I actually would rather not date them because of the dominant/submissive aspect. No matter how old they are or where they grew up, many of the Asian guys I know seem to have little respect for women in general. I realize I'm making a broad generalization, but only one of my Asian friends would be good boyfriend material.

The white men I've encountered are respectful though and don't think less of me just because I'm a woman. My girl friends and I have talked about this, and they seem to feel the same way. I know I'm not speaking for every Asian woman out there, but this is at least how 4 of us feel about it.

[colour wolf]

Originally posted by I Love Me, Vol. I
In my home metropolis and in other areas of the USA and also Europe, I see many, many more white male/Asian female couples than I see white female/Asian male couples.

Have you noticed this where you live? If yes, why do you think is this so?

Well, in the countries in which I have lived (Taiwan, Korea, Japan) this is absolutely true. There are couple of reasons for this, one them being that there are many more single foreign men living abroad then women. Also, the local men are usually considered a lot less 'enlightened' then their foreign counterparts. Of course, quite of few men flock to Asian countries for exactly this reason. There is also an attitute that seems prevalent among male expats that women back home are bitchy and fat.

See this website for evidence of the last statement.

[green_bladder]

Living in Hong Kong, recently I've been seeing an almost equal number of asian male/white female couples to Asian female/white male. (Though, I haven't stepped out much recently )

[Algorithm]

Because Asian girls are cute.

Seriously though (not that the above comment isn't serious), I'm the only white guy I know out of my friends who has dated an Asian girl, and two of my Asian male friends are currently dating white girls.

Walking around town, though, I notice the same thing as the OP, quite a few Asian girls holding hands with Caucasian guys. Maybe it's because all those cute Asian girls are going out with white guys and the poor Asian men don't find white women attractive. Then again, I don't see many Asian guys out with their girlfriends (of any race), so maybe they prefer *cough* indoor activities.

[sirtonyh]

Originally posted by Algorithm
Because Asian girls are cute.

Not fair. You stole my reply.

[wolfman]

Heigth is one major reason there arn't as many WF/AM couples. Lots of girls have a 3 or more inches taller guideline, and Asian guys tend to be shorter which cuts down the number of potential hook-ups.

[Space Vampire]

Depends on where you go, Green Bladder, but it definitely happens.

I think good-looking Asian-American guys have a fair shot with most people in most places, but when it comes to, say, foreign students hooking up in college, their opportunities are far fewer. To be totally honest, this is because the "Asians are nerds" stereotype is sort of true. ICQ is a standard courting technique here; everyone works their ass of at school, and in their free time reads comic books and plays computer games. A typical Asian guy is going to have a hard time winning and keeping a typical western woman. The more "masculine" (or at least well-rounded) types are less likely to end up abroad. There is a much broader spectrum of people in an Asian country than among those who emigrate or study abroad. I personally have seen a lot of white women who go crazy for Chinese guys when they find out that some of them are tanned and toned with zero body-fat rather than no-social-skills computer nerds.

As another factor, from the comments I've seen I would guess that there are more white guys attracted to Asian women than there are Asian guys attracted to white women.

[Surreal]

The OP is correct in his/her assumption that WM/AF couples are more common in the U.S. than WF/AM couples. I believe the ratio is over 2:1.

As to why this is the case, here's a link to what I said when this question was posed earlier-

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...an#post2060604

[Surreal]

Here are the data on inter-racial couples from the U.S. census department-

http://www.census.gov/population/soc...terractab1.txt

WM/AF couples are far more common than WF/AM couples, and WF/BM couples are far more common than WM/BF couples.

[Extrovertive]

The issue is pretty complex in America, but here are just the basic.

In America, the reality is the media sometimes register the notion that White guys should go for Asian girls, for they're percieve as submissive, sexual, and easy. How many Hollywood movies or TV shows out there, do you see Asian-American guys pair up with Asian-American girls? Hardly. The thing is, the media has also sterotype Asian guys as just agressive, weak, kung fu, nerdish fighting, etc. Rarely, would you see a hollywood movie depicting American born Asian guys in non-sterotypical Asian roles and portray as a positive leader.

This notion has also created "selling-out" and 'white-washed" Asian girls in the socially aware Asian-American community. By definition of selling-out, these are Asian that will exclusively date White men and not Asian guys, for the sterotype that White men are better. Similar cases are like are those who think Lucy Lui is a sell-out for the way she wants to be portray in the media. Or Amy Tan whose books have sterotype Asian men as weak to the non-Asian audience to make profit. In a way, she's selling-out to the Asian-American community.

Of course, love is blind. There are actually White male/Asian female couple that do love and go out with each other regardless of race. However, it's the notion that White male go out with Asian because of the submissive sterotype or that Asian guys are weak sterotype, that Asian-American find it an issue.

To gain a better perspective from an Asian-American community and social issues of Asians in America, check out:
http://modelminority.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=16
http://www.asian-nation.org
http://yellowworld.org/
http://www.goldsea.com
http://www.angryasianman.com
http://asianguy.com

Check out the interracial section.

[Lobsang]

The Isle of man has tons of them. Heck, my place of work is full of white males with (mainly tai) wives.


I have on occasion seen one colleague browsing dating websites with almost entirely asian women on them.

If some recent sightings are anything to go by, and you count india as 'asian' I might become one myself. (was mesmerized by the indian girl on the recent episode of 'Masters & Servants' on channel 4, especially the bit where she performed the traditional indian dance!)

[Brown Jenkin]

I've lived long term both in Indonesia and Vietnam. Most of my expat friends (including myself!) ended up in a relationship with an Indonesian or a Vietnamese. This went both for the men and the women.

Anyone who's been to Bali must have encountered the infamous 'Kuta Cowboys' who seem to have mystifying success in getting caucasian women to fall in love with them, despite knowing full well they're basically hookers. A fair proportion of S-E Asian men have beautiful bone structure, long dark hair, great skin and a good physique. They are also very pleasant, laugh a lot and have a disproportianate ability to play the guitar. As a western guy in Indonesia, I often felt very indequate there!

[Lobsang]

You like tai?

Yes. You like shirt?

[Susanann]

Could height have anything to do with it?

How tall are asians compared to whites? (I personally dont know many tall asian men, and I dont know any asian men over 6 feet tall)

Nearly all American women prefer and marry men who are taller than they are. If a woman wants her man to be at least 6 feet tall, asian men are excluded from her serious dating pool. How many tall women do you see marrying asian men? Not many.

Those shorter women who dont need their men to be over 5 feet 10, can date the rather plentiful remaining supply of short white men left over and unpicked, so the asian males face huge competition in the "short category". Since the remaining pool of all men under 5feet 10 is so huge, simple math says that the odds of an asian being selected out of that pool, regardless of his race, are slim.

[Ryan_Liam]

its seems to me in a complete generalisation,and I apologise in advance, but asian women are just as bitchy, maybe more so than their white or black equivalents. So don't be fooled.

[Niggle]

Of course. We all know that, regardless of race, they're still the same species (female)

[lilbtagna]

Susanann, I agree that they're rare, but I know several Vietnamese men at least 6 feet tall.

For my friends and me at least, height has nothing to do with it. The men we have dated do happen to be taller than us, but it's also pretty rare for me to run into a man shorter than 5' 3".

[Rabid_Squirrel]

From SusanannCould height have anything to do with it?
How tall are asians compared to whites? (I personally dont know many tall asian men, and I dont know any asian men over 6 feet tall)

Dang it! I feel so insercure with my 5'11" 3/4 self The women I've dated were mostly white..sorry...Caucasian - but it's mostly because I can't relate to the 1st generation Asians here, and also due to simple population demographics.

I know an Asian woman going out with a guy 6'6", but I also know of a Caucasian female friend who was going out with guy of a similar height.

[teemingONE]

Maybe its because Asian males have smaller....cars?

Or maybe (less likely) supposedly 1 in every 6 people is Chinese?

Or maybe cause Asian females can (supposedly) contract, down...there.

And my final theory;
White guys have a thing for hot Japanese Anime females! ( I know i do) And an asian female is the closest thing to an anime asian female.

[Giggle Gaggle]

Ethnic women date, mate and marry white men because such behavior is considered to be "moving up the racial scale" and encouraged. This is similar to marrying into money, or status, or fame.

There is no such familial and societal pressure on men, at least not to the same degree. Men aren't supposed to marry into anything, they're supposed to make their own way in the world. So men date, mate and marry whoever they want.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally posted by Giggle Gaggle
Ethnic women date, mate and marry white men because such behavior is considered to be "moving up the racial scale" and encouraged. This is similar to marrying into money, or status, or fame.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you actually saying that other races consider the white race to be superior? If so, you might as well just cease posting here for all the support you're going to get.

Have you explored The BBQ Pit lately?

[Giggle Gaggle]

Originally posted by Surreal
Here are the data on inter-racial couples from the U.S. census department-

http://www.census.gov/population/soc...terractab1.txt

WM/AF couples are far more common than WF/AM couples, and WF/BM couples are far more common than WM/BF couples.

Here's support.

[Giggle Gaggle]

Are you actually threatening me through Argumentum ad Baculum into agreeing with the general sentiment on the board, or else?

[Q.E.D.]

Not that, idiot. I'm talking about your proposed reason for this dichotomy:

"Ethnic women date, mate and marry white men because such behavior is considered to be "moving up the racial scale"

Explain this load of crap, please.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally posted by Giggle Gaggle
Are you actually threatening me through Argumentum ad Baculum into agreeing with the general sentiment on the board, or else?

No, I'm telling you that posters with your sort of attitude historically have a short lifespan here. Eventually your lies and misrepresentations will catch up with you. You're entitled to your opinion, but knowingly posting false information is taken seriously here.

[Laurasia]

I am the product of a White Male/Asian Female marriage. I know that in my mother's case, she ended up with a white man not because she was only attracted to white men, but she moved far away from home where there were not many Asian men. She ended up living in Germany for a year and then went to grad school in Michigan. My mother is an Asian American though, born and raised in a Chinese family in Hawaii, so there are actually a other whole can of worms opened when you consider than she would not fit into a 'traditional' Chinese family very well. I don't think race was an issue; she met my (white) dad, fell in love, and they've been that way ever since.
My uncle (mom's brother), and Asian male, has dated White women his whole life. He's married to one.
My mom's sister, Asian female, is married to an Asian male. But when they first got married, she raised hell setting up the rules of equality when his mother tried to make their relationship more 'traditional' (basically demandng that she wait on her husband hand and foot). She put her foot down and it worked out (luckily it was his mother that was into the traditional roles, not him).
I myself, being half Asian, am in a relationship with a white guy. I have never dated an Asian guy...not because I don't like them, just because I meet and get to know more white guys (probably has something to do with having lived most of my life in a white suburb too).
Another reason...maybe it's because of the fact that a lot of white guys are into Asian girls.

[JThunder]

Originally posted by Algorithm
Maybe it's because all those cute Asian girls are going out with white guys and the poor Asian men don't find white women attractive.

Quite the contrary. It's because white women usually don't find Asian men to be attractive. Just look at the media, for example. How many Asian men can you name who are regularly described as "heartthrobs" or "sex symbols," or who have been featured on the cover of Tiger Beat?

Interestingly enough, whenever I bring this up, there are invariably a bunch of men and women who say, "What are you talking about? There are plenty of Asian men who fit that description!" When I ask them to name one though, I always get one of two responses:

"Well, there's that guy from this movie. I can't remember his name."

OR

"Well, what about Jackie Chan?"

[Space Vampire]

I have seen about as many white women who are into Asian guys as I have the opposite. There are Asian some guys who really like big breasts or blonde hair, but generally they prefer their own.

[Kreg]

bout the comment about marrying to move up the social ladder. i am not trying to be racist and am very sorry if it comes across that way.

It has seemed to me if you get a white person, male or female living as an expat, worker or tourist, in a forgien asian country, they are seen as good targets by local members of the oposite sex, often, and sorry yeah i guess this is harsh, but because they have money and are in a way passports for the person who marries them. So in a way they are marrying up the socal ladder.

I think ppl should also remember that marrage for social reasons rather then love is much more common in asia then in the west or among westernised asians.

plus to be a bit racist to the whites now, i think there are alot of guys who partner up with asian girls for just for the sex even if they may realise they are being used as a passport and money tree in the process. Keeping an asian girl can be pretty cheap as long as she stays were she is. (harsh but then not all of us are nice ppl)

sorry it this offends anyone, asian or white or any other of the miriad of colors we have on offer. i dont mean to say any race is cheap or easy or anything like that, but i do think that in places were ppl are poor and desperate(economically), the money, education and hope of escape that expats bring with them, make them attractive as dating targets.

also while asian male might have a thing bout being dominant, asian females can alse be pretty gentle, and so white guys fed up with liberated western women can find them appealing.

[Giggle Gaggle]

Kreg, prepare to be threatened by senior board members into shutting up or getting banned.

They hate to hear that ethnic races do indeed think of the white race as a step up, for racial, social, economic, legal, and other reasons. They like to think that people only marry for love. What fools!

[Lissla Lissar]

I am a product of a WF/AM marriage. Dad is shorter than Mom.

I don't think it had anything to do with racial superiority or class, sorry.

[substatique]

I just want to stick up for the couple of people who dared to suggest there may be racism at work in the OP phenomenon. Q.E.D., I think it's your attitude that is disgusting, and I don't care if you have a hundred times as many posts as I do. I think Giggle Gaggle and Kreg are raising a valid point, and there is no need for personal insults.

I wonder why it's okay to suggest that white men go after asian girls for their supposed submissiveness, but it's not okay to suggest asian girls go after white guys for a stereotypical racial quality. Taking a guess here would be out of line, but think about it.

On the other hand, I think those reasons are untrue. I've noticed the phenomenon, and I think it's largely due to two things already mentioned: 1) height; 2) quiet, nerdy girls are cute, while quiet, nerdy guys are dorks (cuteness being less attractive in men). There are guys out there with an asian fetish, but surely there are girls with one, too, so that would only be a factor in individual cases.

[Space Vampire]

I agree, though the class and prestige factor applies much, much more in Asia than in the US, which I guess most posters can't identify with. Sometimes it's as minor as a "trophy white boyfriend," sometimes you really do see the stereotypical "out for a green-card" snakes at work.

[bbart4]

Originally posted by Kreg
...So in a way they are marrying up the socal ladder.

It is about money. In the poor parts of the world, whites (or expats, for that matter) equate money.

I think ppl should also remember that marrage for social reasons rather then love is much more common in asia then in the west or among westernised asians.

I'm not sure that this is true. When there's big economic gap b/w population, marrying the rich and powerful can be seen as the only way to get out of poverty.

plus to be a bit racist to the whites now, i think there are alot of guys who partner up with asian girls for just for the sex even if they may realise they are being used as a passport and money tree in the process. Keeping an asian girl can be pretty cheap as long as she stays were she is. (harsh but then not all of us are nice ppl)

Just a form of prostitution. Again some of the poor might view this as the only way to escape poverty.

[shrew]

I hate to admit it, Q.E.D., because I respect you, but I think you overreacted. Giggle Gaggle has a point, and although it's a politically incorrect one, it's a valid point nonetheless. No, I can't give a cite, but I do think she has a valid social point.

There are several stereotypes at work here:

1. Asian women are submissive.
2. Asian women are freak nasties in bed.
3. Asian men are cold, misogynistic social aberrations who don't know how to respect and/or treat women.
4. White men choose Asian women because they are tired of putting up with white womens' crap.
5. Asian women choose white men in order to be with a man who will treat them well, or possibly, in order to move up the social ladder (although this would only work in a country where "white" is the culture of power.)



I'm not saying any of these statements are true or even possess a shred of truth, but here at the Straight Dope, we should be able to discuss stereotypes without losing our wigs.

[pizzabrat]

Q.E.D.
What the hell are you talking about? Are you actually saying that other races consider the white race to be superior? If so, you might as well just cease posting here for all the support you're going to get.

Well, here's a little support here. Gaggle's observation is far from mere opinion; white supremacist attitudes in dating and socialization are quite prevalent around the world. In fact, the idea that Asian women view marrying whites as marrying "up" is thrown around as common knowledge, and I'm surprised you've never heard of it. Even white posters here have told about their experiences being mobbed by Asian women when visiting Asian countries. I'm familiar with it from the gay angle, in any of the international chatrooms a gay.com, you'll see a majority "preferences" such as "GAM for GWM", "GBM for GWM", etc. Of course [many people of] other races think the white race is superior, where the hell have you been? I personally think it's sad and pathetic, but what are you going to do?

[Kayeby]

Before my boyfriend and I visited Singapore we were warned by many of my Singaporean friends about local girls who might try to poach him away. These women perceive Western men as being wealthier, better endowed status symbols, and won't even consider dating a non-white guy. Certainly they view dating white men as a "step up" and I often saw average-looking, middle-aged men with young, striking Asian women. I say striking because I never saw them with beautiful, or even pretty women - just a strange observation I guess.

Among my Asian female friends, the ones who have mainly white friends and who don't speak much Chinese tend to be the ones who go out with white guys, simply because they're dating from a pool of their friends and friends' friends. Whereas the ones who mainly hang out with other Asians and speak to each other in Chinese tend to have Asian boyfriends.

My parents couldn't care less what colour my boyfriend is - all they know is that "ta dui ni hen hao" (I'm not 100% sure of the pinyin spelling, but it translates to "he treats you very well"). On the other hand, one of my parents' friends thinks of us dating as a step down for me, and told my parents "well, it's okay as long as she doesn't marry him". I think he's a step up and he thinks that I'm a step up, so really we're both getting a bargain.

[Blonde]

Considering the white race to be superior to others has resulted in the slaughter of many throughout history - so it's way more nasty than the other sterotypes being discussed in this thread, IMHO. I'm with Q.E.D. on this one.

[Space Vampire]

Okay, since the tide has turned somewhat to the point where we are okay with talking about stereotypes, let me throw in something uncomfortably stereotypical and yet totally true. I spend a ridiculous amount of time browsing Chinese boards for practice, and I have seen quite a few discussions by Hong Kong girls about the wonder that is the western penis, including the implication by some that that would be a major factor in deciding, if not who to marry, at least who to get screwed by in return for drinks next weekend.

Now as a white guy I can't get TOO upset about this idea continuing to go around, but don't get me wrong, I'm not at all pleased to report this. (this is a segment of my current potential dating pool, after all, and I'm not thrilled that a chunk of them would just be out for my [imagined only] enormous penis) I'm not saying this is what's an all or most girls' minds, but I've seen it too much to blow it off.

Also, in places like Hong Kong and Singapore where people are OBSESSED with English, showing off western friends or boyfriends is often (while not the conscious motive in forming such relationships- at least, I hope) at least in part a way of saying "look at how great my English is, I must be really well educated and high class and on my way to making loads of money."

Sorry if I'm a little cynical about Asia and Hong Kong in particular. One of those days.

[Q.E.D.]

I'd like to know where you people who claim that other races consider the white race to be superior are getting this information. Can one of you provide ONE reputable cite to back up tht claim? If not, I continue to say bullshit.

[Space Vampire]

It's not something one can "cite." I don't blame you if the idea makes me uncomfortable; it makes me want to puke too, especially when it happens to me, but I can't deny what I see. However, as noted, it isn't "racial superiority" that most of us are talking about (won't speak for Giggle Gaggle as he's nutty enough that he may well mean that) so much as (real or perceived) class status. That doesn't mean people will always LIKE you, but they will generally take note of that "status."

[BobT]

I go out with an Asian female for the simple reason that she decied to go out with me. My friends have used this to create a pattern of women I like, which I find strange as I've never noticed a pattern to the women I go out with.

Sometimes, it's just the way it works out.

However, the Asian woman I see, who is divorced from an Asian man, has told me that she feels there is a perception among white females that Asian males aren't very passionate and quite dull, which she feels is quite unfair.

[Kayeby]

Space Vampire, my boyfriend's going to be tickled pink when I tell him that I'm dating him for his Wonderful Western Penis^TM

I'm going to have to use that phrase more often in conversation too.

"Hey Kayeby, can you - "
"Yes, O Bearer of the Wonderful Western Penis^TM?"

[non-native]

As an asian male, i read this thread and just want to start crying.
I guess this doesn't help for our "effeminate" stereotype.

[7 up yours]

Speaking for myself here, but as a Asian female who was born and grew up in Canada, I have never dated a Asian male. It's mostly because a lot of my male role models were white. Because of this, I've grown to be attracted to Caucasian guys rather than Asian guys.

Plus, one look at my brother and I think "Yuck. All Asian guys are like this. Better steer clear."

Of course, to prevent the Asian guys on here from feeling bad, I know it's not true, but it's just a mentality thing.

[pizzabrat]

7 up yours
Speaking for myself here, but as a Asian female who was born and grew up in Canada, I have never dated a Asian male. It's mostly because a lot of my male role models were white. Because of this, I've grown to be attracted to Caucasian guys rather than Asian guys.

Plus, one look at my brother and I think "Yuck. All Asian guys are like this. Better steer clear."

Cute rationalization...

Of course, to prevent the Asian guys on here from feeling bad, I know it's not true, but it's just a mentality thing.

I doubt your obstenive thoughts give much comfort when your actions still leave certain people feeling lonely and undesirable, especially since you're just one of millions who do the same.

[Nichol_storm]

An asian man has written a very long and very involved asian/white dating disparity analysis on this very subject.

His conclusions: the wm/af pairing triumphs over am/wf due to a combination of cultural expectations, asian women "marrying up", media bias, and differences in beauty ideals.

[kimera]

I am a white girl dating an Asian male and many of my white female friends also date Asian males. The reason why there aren't more of us vary, but in addition to some of what has already been mentioned there is also the fact that males are regarded as more valuable than females in some Asian famillies.

For example, in Korean and Japanese families, it does not matter if their daughters marry white men. They aren't responsible for carrying on the family line, and white men have a reputation of being rich and easy to control.

However, sons are more important. They have to carry on the family line. Most old-school Koreans and Japanese tend to prefer their sons to marry Korean/Japanese wives. Not only are Asian wives are then expected to stay at home and do all the cleaning and cooking for their husbands. (My boyfriend's parents expect me to clean, cook and do his laundry.)

White women are viewed as sex objects. I've seen plenty of Japanese/Korean/Chinese music videos and white women are the "girl" in more of them then Asian women. But, as parents still have a lot of say, Asian women are still viewed as better wives.

Of course, I know a lot of Asian guys who won't date other Asians because they say they are too submissive, but then again, I know some Asian girls who have complete control of their relationship.