Why should I vote for Bush?

Okay, there’s been regular threads in GD about the Democratic nominees, so I’m interested in looking at things from the other side of the fence…

Pretend that we have Joe Public, a non-partisan unaligned American voter. He’s voted for both parties in the past, and thinks that not voting at all is a bad thing. He sees the 2004 Presidential Election on the horizon, and looks back on George W. Bush’s first term in office.

What incentives does he have to vote for Bush? After all, there’s a war in Iraq that’s apparently endangering American soldiers for no reason (no WMDs found, no threat to the USA, Army War College report, etc.). There’s several hundred thousand jobs lost since 2000, and a general feeling of unease among his friends that looking for work now is a nontrivial matter. There’s Osama bin Laden running around, but nobody seems to care any more. The Administration seems to be pandering to the rich and powerful, what with two sets of tax cuts for the wealthy, a Cabinet loaded with industry lobbyists, the non-prosecution of folks like Ken Lay and Bill Gates. There’s a deficit that’s completely obliterated the surplus we had back when Clinton was in office. And there’s an annoying sense that the Administration wants to keep everything a secret (Dick Cheney’s energy commission, stonewalling on the 9/11 investigation, etc.).

To counterbalance all this, what’s the argument in favor of voting for Bush? I mean, to Joe, it looks like the nation is heading down the tubes – so why shouldn’t he vote for Anyone Besides Bush™, in hopes that things will get better?

On some other boards I read, some people think GW is the best president ever because “He sent me $300”

There you go. If you are greedy and don’t mind handing debt to the kiddies, all is well and good.

From rjung

The problem here, rjung, is you are asking us to pretend we are “we have Joe Public, a non-partisan unaligned American voter”, but then you ask totally partasan questions. Its debatable (especially in the ‘Joe Public’ crowd) whether any of what you said is true. After all, ‘Joe Public’ might actually think that there IS good reason to be in Iraq. Also, depending on circumstances ‘Joe Public’ might HAVE a decent job and be doing fairly well. After all, more people HAVE jobs than don’t have jobs, no? ‘Joe Public’ might just NOT think things are going down the tubes…certainly this moderate centrist doesnt see things that way. Maybe I’m just deluded…

It goes on and on. You are looking at this from YOUR perspective, not that of ‘Joe Public’, to which I figure you mean ‘The Center’.

I can’t get into why to vote for Bush myself, as I’m not going to. For myself, I’ll be voting one of the 3rd parties if Dean is the candidate as I can’t stand Bush OR Dean for various reasons too numerous to get into, and I’d encourage all those on the fence to do the same (Green Party, Liberatarian, Reform, whatever). I think a good strong 3rd party can be very healthy for our country.

I’m sure some Bush supporters will do a good job of laying out reasons to vote for him. All I can say is, what is obvious to YOU is not so obvious to others. Or, what is obvious to THEM is obviously NOT to you. :slight_smile: Its called partisan politics. Ain’t this a great country??

-XT

Well, you did a great job of outlining why a Democratic partisan hack would not vote for Bush. “Joe” is much more rational and looks at things differently.

The economy is improving. Unemployment is going down, and it’s very much in the middle of the range it has been at for the last 20 years. We haven’t captured ObL, but we have caught many of the al Qeada leaderhip. And there have been no al Qeada attaks on US soil since 9/11. Taxes are lower than they were under the Dems, and Joe is smart enough not to fall for the class warfare rhetoric of the left about “tax cuts for the rich”. Being an average American, Joe supported the war in Iraq, so he’s not too interested in Dean or Clark. Joe likes that fact that we’ve caught Saddam and, again being an Average American, is not especially gung-ho about the UN. He’s somewhat concerned about how we get out of Iraq, but the Dem candidates haven’t come up with a credible exit plan.

The deficit is a major issue, and Joe thinks the best way to deal with is to keep taxes low so the economy can grow, and curtail spending. Although Bush has performed poorly in this area, he doesn’t trust the Dems to do any better. But if there’s any reason he might not vote for Bush, this is it. He’s pretty certain that if Bush wins in '04 and the Pubs have both houses of Congress, and they don’t get the defecit under controll, he’ll pay a lot more attention to the Dems in '08.

Well, there’s a few reasons, depending on what your nonpartisan voter believes.

In Iraq, a single invasion with historically minimal U.S. casaulties has, at least in the short term, tipped the balance of power in the Middle East away from the terrorists and fascists who were running the show in Iraq and Syria. Already, we’ve seen increased cooperation from Iran on nuclear inspections, significant concessions by an already-improving Libya, a recent move by Syria to reopen talks with Israel and other events which indicate that the invasion may have been the best thing to happen to that region in about 600 years. Your voter might think that’s a good thing.

As regards Bin Laden, it’s frustrating that he hasn’t been found. But it’s not like there are no troops looking for him. Some people think that he’s in the mountains on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border and that the Pakistanis are preventing us from getting him. Your voter might think an invasion of Pakistan is justified if that’s the case, but I’m guessing if he thinks that he was probably not also against the invasion of Iraq. He has to ask himself what a Democratic candidate might to different or better? 100,000 more troops in Afghanistan? An invasion of a nuclear-capable country? They keep saying do “more” but I don’t think any of them is really saying precisely what. Your voter will want to know what.

Economies turn. And ours turned down following the collapse of the bubble (which wasn’t just about internet and telecom, but about too-cheap capital generally leading to capacity expansion). As it happens, though, the turn was relatively short and shallow – the peak unemployment rate wasn’t much above what used to be thought of as the minimum unemployment rate our economy could sustain over a long period without overheating. Some people don’t believe a President has much influence over the economy at all, in which case neither the contraction nor its shallowness would enter into his thoughts when selecting a candidate. Others might think that the tax cuts and the additional domestic spending under Bush helped things and would look favorably on that record. Alternatively, he might look at the future plans of the small businesses which have been the job creators in the U.S. for the past couple of decades, see that the net percentage of them who intend to hire this year went up by almost 50% in the past couple months, and say that there’s hope for the future whether it’s Bush’s doing or not.

As above, domestic spending, which had been under control during the Clinton years, has exploded (well, relatively). And it’s going to get worse. Among other things, Bush has created and partially (only partially) funded a massive program of school testing, mandating that schools get the performance of its worst students up. He has also created an entire new prescription drug entitlement for seniors. NEA funding, NASA funding, all kinds of funding are up. If your voter is a big-government type, he might like this and again put a check in the Bush column. On the other hand, if your candidate is a small-government type, he might be pretty pissed off about this and go looking for candidates promising at least to constrict the growth of spending. I’ll let someone who is a Democrat spell out which candidates are promising to undo those new programs and not roll out any new ones.

And he cut taxes. Yes, most of the money went to people that most people consider “the rich.” They pay the most. But many middle-class families got cuts, and many more lower-class families became exempt from paying any taxes at all. Your voter, if he’s married and has kids, probably got a tax cut. So he’s probably at least a little happy about that.

The result of increased spending and decreased taxes is deficits. If your guy is a deficit hawk, he might not like that at all! But not everyone is a deficit hawk. Our economy somehow got through the Reagan deficits and earier deficits, so maybe your guy doesn’t care or doesn’t care enough to make it a deciding factor. To the extent he does care, again, he’s going to want to quiz the Democratic candidates about how exactly the deficit will be closed, and his opinion might be swayed by how. Is it entirely by raising taxes again? Are those new entitlements going to disappear? Maybe we’ll not keep our promise to the new Iraq? It all depends on what your voter believes.

I don’t think many people choose a President because he has or doesn’t have a secrecy fetish – maybe that’s too bad. If your voter does, he’s certainly not going to give any points to Bush for it! So he’ll want to look at how the leading Democratic candidates have treated their records and weigh the records accordingly. Some seem to be better than Bush in this regards and would get points. Others, not so much, And of course some of them don’t really have much in the way of records at all, or a least ones you’d want public, so you kind of have to take them on faith.

Lemme think of some more reasons later.

Here’s a couple of things that we need to consider…

First, the war in Iraq…

  1. Don’t you think the world is a better place without some :wally like So-damn-insane running the place over there? Despite the paper that was recently found, he has supported terrorism and terrorists in the past (the single biggest one being our good ol’ friend Yasser Arafat). In the days after 9-11, while he may not have vocalized his overwhelming joy at UBL’s attack, you can rest assured that he felt it. Also, take a look at what he has done to his own people. But you know, it’s ok that he gassed tens of thousands of people and has made hundreds more disappear or tortured or executed…they are his own people, after all. (The difference between people like Stalin and Pol Pot and people like Adolf Hitler? Stalin and Pot killed their own people; Hitler killed other people…we can’t have that, now, can we?)

  2. Dubbyah went into Iraq with the best intelligence available at the time. He had people all around him saying that Iraq was filled to the brim with WMDs, etc. (And despite the failure to find any WMDs, I’d be willing to bet that Saddam asked his good buddy Assad in Syria if he’d mind watching his “toy bombs” for a while).

Second, with the secrecy bit…Having studied terrorists and terrorism for many years on my own, secrecy is of the utmost importance. The minute that terrorists realize that you are using mode-of-communication X to find out about them, they shut that pipeline down and move to mode-of-communication Y. The Israelis have known that for years; we are just now learning that fact. If you want to know everything that is going on, then good for you…just realize that if you do that, it’ll make the gathering of information and the prevention of future 9-11 attacks that much more difficult.

Third, why Dubbyah over the other guys? Dr. Howard Dean seems to be the frontrunner for the Dems ticket. That guy just downright scares me. He’s a liar (he claims to be anti-war, but previously pushed Clinton to do in Bosnia exactly what Dubbyah did in Iraq.)

Jessie Jackson, et. al. Do I really have to elaborate? The only democrat that seems to be a not-creepy guy is perhaps John Kerry from SC. Then again, I haven’t researched what his campaign is about, so I just reserve judgement against him.

Worst case, Bush II is the least of all evils. He is the evil we know, and we can trust his “evilness” to be consistent.

Don’t you think that our president should be honest with us?
Do you republicans really not have a problem with our president lying us into a war?!?!?
Bush is killing this country. Economically it is a shambles. The deficit has reached unheard of proportions and the dollars fall more than offsets the slight rise in the stock market.
Oil right now is 32$ a barrel. If the dollar was trading at the same rate as it was 2 years ago the price would be approximatly 22-24$ per barrel.
We have lost millions of jobs in this country and there is no indications that that is about to change. Companies are still intent on moving to other countries for the cheaper labor.
Minimum wage is quickly becoming the average wage.
I can not think of one single issue that Bush has addressed that has benefited this country.

Why would someone vote for Bush?
Lack of patriotism and love of this country are the only reasons I can think of.

Jessie Jackson ain’t running afaik. The least of all evils, IMO, is Lieberman…who incidently has almost zero chance of getting the nomination, again IMO. Dean is a flake…I think he doesn’t have a snow balls chance in hell of beating Bush in a general election precisely because he DOESN’T appeal to ‘Joe Public’. I’m willing to make a gentlemans bet on this with anyone here…if the Dems run Dean, Bush will get his second term. And it won’t be pretty either. IMO, if the Dems ran Lieberman (or possibly even Kerry), they would have a shot…it would at least be close.

-XT

Joe has a few hard-core Dem friends. He really gets turned off by shrill comments like “America is going down the tubes” and “Bush is just like Hitler”. Joe has a good job. He’s proud of America and thinks we are a force for good in the world. All this screaming by his friends affects him on an emotional level and tends to reflect poorly on the Democratic candidates.

And, believe it or not, he has this one friend who keeps saying “Shrub stole the last election”. Can you believe it? Can you believe there are people who are that patisan? Joe wouldn’t have believed it if he hadn’t heard it with his own ears.

Joe will vote for Bush because he still remembers with shuddering horror all the peace and prosperity of the Clinton administration, when there were so few real problems around that the media were able to get all worked up over a blowjob. He sure doesn’t want that again!

In a momentary lapse of judgement, I forgot about Joe. My apologies to all. He’s definitely one of my more favourite dems…my one major criticism of him (and the nail on the coffin for people like Dean) is that he doesn’t support Israel like Bush does. There are those who say Dubbyah has been America’s most pro-Israel president ever. (I’m willing to reserve judgement until he’s completed his presidency…don’t want a “read my lips” relapse).

It would be a real treat to see a Kerry/Lieb (or Lieb/Kerry) ticket for November, but I know that’s probably just a pipe dream. :smack:

[sub]Re: Why should I vote for Bush?[/sub]

You should vote for Bush if you find him less objectionable than the Democrat’s candidate. Most Americans will find that to be the case.

Things aren’t as bad as some of you make them out to be, and the Dems don’t have a candidate that’s presidential material. That’s why Bush is going to get four more years.

Well, then he surrounded himself with the wrong people and ought to be thrown out. Certainly, there was no hard intelligence telling him this was the case. And, some former (and presumably current) CIA analysts and such knew that things like Powell’s presentation before the UN were bullshit. Here is Ray McGovern, a CIA analyst from 1964 to 1990, who regularly reported to the vice president and senior policy-makers on the President’s Daily Brief from 1981 to 1985 (that’s the Reagan era):

Well, we are all entitled to “interesting” theories but that doesn’t make them anything but wild unsubstantiated speculation.

That is not a lie if he supported a different sort of military action in a different sort of circumstance. Dean never claimed to be “anti-war” as a general principle; rather he claimed to be against the U.S. invasion of Iraq. So, he is only a liar in the sense of “he does not mean what I think he ought to mean which has almost no relation to what he actually said.”

I didn’t even know Jesse Jackson was running this year.

That’s okay, jshore. Clinton wasn’t running in 2000, either, but the Republicans were campaigning against him as if he were.

How wrong are thee? Let me count the ways…

-Americans are happier now than at any point since 1956. (When the survey began.)

-Consumer optimism is on the rise.

-Historically, GW’s popularity is well above what previous presidents had prior to reelection.

-If the election were held today, Bush would spank Dean, 54% vs. 33%.

Some people just can’t accept the fact that GW is generally liked, and that most Americans are pretty happy with how things in America are going.

Your statement are only really true of federal income taxes. Once you add payroll taxes into the mix, the distribution is more even. And, then there are state and local taxes which really hit the poor and middle class. And Bush’s policies are putting increasing financial pressures on the states, thus forcing them to raise taxes. So, the net effect of all this is the rich getting a healthy reduction in their total tax burden, much of the middle class probably getting little or nothing in the end (depending on individual circumstances, where they live, etc), and the poor likely seeing nothing or even an increase in their total tax burden. And, of course, this whole tax cut is being financed on borrowed money anyway. So, it is sort of like GW stealing our credit card and then using it to pay us a cash advance.

Oh, and note that the reason the rich pay an ever-increasing percentage of the federal income tax is because of the explosion in inequality…i.e., the even faster increase in their share of the income.

Joe is smart enough to realize that the President can’t cut state taxes. He also knows no one ever cuts Social Security taxes, so he’s not surprised that Bush didn’t.

This is quite possibly the silliest thing I’ve ever read.

Y’know, I can’t help but think that any answer to “why should the average voter vote for Bush” would depend on what exactly the “average voter” is and believes. For example, if the “average voter” were gay (which they can’t be, due to sheer numbers), (s)he would have little reason to vote for Bush, unless there were major agreement on almost every other non-social issue. If the “average voter” cared about the environment, then it might be the same thing, but only depending on how MUCH they care, and whether they’d care as much given various economic factors.

Heck, I’d be stymied to give a serious answer to the OP, really. It’s quite a daunting question.

I’m sure we were watching Iraq so closely with our satellites that if Saddam had tried to move anything as large as a bomb across the boarder, we would have known about it.