In today’s column (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_344a.html), Cecil states that the adjective, “orange”, denoting a particular color, came into usage around 1620. Obviously, the actual color existed before that. So what did pre-1620 speakers of English call the color orange?
I would say “tawny”, based on the use of this word for orange-coloured items in heraldry, which predates the introduction of “orange”.
A Russian might as well ask, “What do English-speakers call the color of the sky, when they don’t have a word for galuboi?”
Huh? English speakers call the sky blue. Pedantic English speakers call it cerulean. Unbearably pedantic English speakers ask what portion of the sky, at what time of the day, at what latitude and longitude and in what weather conditions. So what did pre-1620 speakers of English call the color orange?
**
**No, that would be pink.
Peace.
I had the same question (what did they call “orange” before 1620?). I also am wondering if “William the Conqueror” was known as “William of Orange” in 1066.
Any ideas?
“William the Conqueror” was known as “William the Bastard” in 1066. William of Orange was later, & Dutch.
Always helps to have your Williams straight, so to speak. 
William of 1066 fame was Norman, son of the Duke of Normandy.
William of Orange fame came to power in 1688 (?) (going on memory here, to lazy to look it up). He was Prince of Orange, son of William II, Prince of Orange, staadtholder of Holland
Don’t I feel like an idiot. Thanks for clearing that up.
I’m not even going to try to figure out the various Henry’s and Mary’s
Anyway, thanks again.
So, how’s the weather out there in left-field? I’m no genius, but I fail to follow the logic in this response. An relevant analogy utilizing the Russian motif would be:
"What did Russian-speakers call the color of the sky before they had the word “galuboi”?
What I am looking for is the answer to this question:
“Assuming no contact with anyone or anything associated with Russia, what did a pre-1620 speaker of English, or the contemporary form of English being spoken the day before the introduction of the word “orange” into the vocabulary, call the color of a ripe pumpkin, a tiger lily or a carrot?”
So far, the best, and only, answer is “tawny”.
Any students of Middle English or High German out there?
I thought pink was light red.
A bit off topic, but in the same vein…
I really want to become a poet, but I have had a heckuva time coming up with a word to rhyme with “orange”. The only one I’ve been able to come up with so far is “mournge”. And I don’t think it means anything.
One might add that English is one of the very few languages to have a word for “pink”.
Yes, you certainly do.
English lacks a word that translates the Russian color “galuboi”, yet we manage to speak of the sky without difficulty. As long as you allow yourself to believe that English speakers somehow knew that between yellow and red there was another color that they didn’t have a name for, you’re on the wrong track.
“Yellow”, “Red”, and “White”, “Yellow”, or “Purple” (the orange breed of carrot being historically recent) respectively.
Actually, that would be the answer only if forced. The normal answer would be “yellow”, or perhaps “red” or “brown”.
1620 is long after the Middle English period. The German word for “orange” is “orange”.
kellner posted this link to me
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_168b.html
The eight observations at the end of the reply are interesting.
JWK:
What does
“As long as you allow yourself to believe that English speakers somehow knew that between yellow and red there was another color that they didn’t have a name for, you’re on the wrong track.”
mean?
Obviously, people are aware of differences in colors beyond their vocabularies.
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy]
Yes, you certainly do.
English lacks a word that translates the Russian color “galuboi”, yet we manage to speak of the sky without difficulty. As long as you allow yourself to believe that English speakers somehow knew that between yellow and red there was another color that they didn’t have a name for, you’re on the wrong track.
QUOTE]
Sort of a quantum color wheel, eh? The color doesn’t exist until the word describing it is coined? Kind of makes you wonder when they were made aware of green and violet. Maybe through observing the order of colors in the spectrum produced by rainbows and other natural prisms…?
So, all pedantic obfuscation and peripheral blather aside, you’re saying that the English language had no word describing the color between yellow and red prior to the introduction of the word “orange” somewhere around 1620? Very interesting. Unlikely, but interesting.
For the others on the list laboring under the delusional belief that our ancesters may have noticed the existence of colors other than red, yellow and blue, I offer the following suggestions in response to the original question - cinnabar, russet and ginger.
Was that before, or after, 1620?
Wordorigins.org says:
“The House of Orange (referring to the Dutch royal family or William and Mary of England) and the use of the term in reference to Irish politics is of a different origin. It derives from the town of Orange on the Rhone river in France and is etymologically unrelated to the color or the fruit.”
And I would submit that at least one group of craftsmen, the armorers, would have a keen interest in distinguishing subtle variations between the primary colors of red and yellow.
The process of hardening and tempering steel, especially steel used for blade weapons, is based on carefully controlling the heating and cooling of the blade. Steel sword manufacture was a well-developed, sophisticated craft by the 1600’s, and the need to differentiate and communicate gradations of color between yellow and red (indicating the temperature of the metal)was not only important, but essential.
I imagine the Master could pass on annealing tips to the Apprentice through phrases like “Heat the blade 'til it’s reddish-yellow, or yellowish-red, or like a jaundiced pomegranate, or the color of a starling’s beak in May, or…jeez, I wish we had a word for orange!”
But, I’ll bet they had a more precise terminology.
That’s interesting; of course metal must have heated more slowly and so gone through the gradations of color more slowly and evenly.
Can’t you find some old text book, and see what word they used?
The previous post had some good suggestions [except that ‘russet’ is more a reddish-brown, and ‘cinnabar’ a brownish-red, and ‘ginger’ was in use at the time for the root, which is NOT orange, and I have never heard it used for orange except for hair-color].
Does any-one know a Celtic or the french word used? The only word for ‘orange’ in my German dictionary is ‘orange’.