unlucky hands of poker

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
1

I was playing poker over thanksgiving break and I made a comment about a dead man’s hand. Now I know that there is a hand in poker, perhaps not known as a deadman’s hand, but something; I just can’t think of what it is. The guys around the table laughed and thought I was stupid, so please help me prove them wrong. I believe the legend goes something like a person got a good hand and then right before he laid it down he was shot (or something along those lines). Am I just imagining this, or did this really happen and there is a hand out there that is known to be unlucky?

Thanks.

2

The “Deadman’s Hand” is supposed to be Aces over Eights. Wild Bill Hickok was supposedly shot while hold it. I believe that the story is apocryphal.

3

The Dead Man’s Hand is the hand that Wild Bill Hickok was allegedly holding when he was shot on 2 Aug 1876.

The Master speaketh

Another cite

4

Oh, here’s a link to a quesion on Ask.com:

I’d wager it’s been discussed here at least once, and wouldn’t be surprised if Cecil’s taken a crack at it.

5

Also, the fifth card is the 2 of spades, otherwise it’s not a “true” Deadman’s Hand.

6

It’s two pairs, aces over 8’s. And the story is absolutely true (or so I’ve heard). Heh. Anyway it was Wild Bill Hickock’s hand right before he got shot.

Googled it and found this:

http://www.robohoo.com/poker_26.html

This site says the story is legend, but I’ve heard it as confirmed in many other places. YMMV.

Also:

http://www.pokernews.info/pokerterms/dead-mans-hand.html

Two pair - Aces and Eights (The hand Wild Bill Hickock was holding when Jack McCall shot him in the back).

7

Crap, I replied and all of a sudden there were 5 other ones. =)

As for the 5th card, no one knows for sure what it was. See previous link for possible options.

8

Beware the Dead Man’s Hand . . .

Worse yet, it was worth $10.62 Canadian.

– Tammi Terrell

9

Since this one is about a question that Cecil covered, let’s move it to CoCC.

samclem GQ moderator

10

It’s aces and eights. Aces over eights would be a full house.

11

Sorry to disappoint everyone(including Cecil), but there is absolutely NO proof about any of the cards in Wild Bill’s hand. None. Not about any of the cards.

There are NO contemporary accounts concerning the shooting that mention the cards. Hickock’s biographer, Rosa, said in his 1974 book something to the effect of “the identity of the cards is in dispute.” Cecil wrote his column before Rosa’s book.

Hickock was killed in 1876. The oldest print reference to " a dead man’s hand" in cards is in 1888, and it indeed said “aces and eights” but said nothing about the origin of the phrase.

Another cite from 1891

1895

12

No, aces full of eights would be a full house.

13

As InvisibleWombat said, Aces Over Eights is a full house. The “over” order distinguishes it from Eights Over Aces, which is a weaker full house.

14

It’s AA and the idiot who calls all in with 2 4 off proceeds to flop 442.

15

except when the turn and river are A and A :slight_smile:

16

turn OR river

17

Stop–apparently, you’re both right. I was all about to weigh in on Otto’s side, when I went looking for cites and found many conflicting definitions:

From PokerNews Info:

From Westside Poker Club:

These cites were only two of literally dozens of references to a hand of A-A-A-8-8 as alternatively “Aces full of eights” and “Aces over eights.” Guess there’s no solid answer here.

18

I don’t think aces and eights is actually considered to be an unlucky hand (it’s middling decent in draw poker), it’s just called the dead man’s hand because of the Bill Hickock association, not because you’re gonna die soon.

19

I don’t think anyone was disagreeing with Otto’s term for it, it was just his claim that Aces Over Eights did not designate a full house. As you’ve found out, people also often refer to a two pair in that fashion–but it’s redundant in that case, since the order of “Over” is determined by the card rank. A full house can have Eights Over Aces, but two pair cannot.