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#1
01-17-2005, 09:15 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Setting Up An Efficent Table For Three Or More Variables

As an aide to my research, I am looking to make up a table that will have all the variables I need, preferably as one table. I need a temperature axis (about three temperatures), a solvent axis, and an acid axis. The easy way, of course, would be to make a solid of some sort, but it's hard to write on the inside of a solid. Is there a good way to do this in two dimensions, preferably something in Excel that I can print out and write on?
#2
01-17-2005, 09:27 PM
 Monstre Guest Join Date: May 2001 Location: The P. Vegetative State Posts: 6,427
Well, one thing you could do is take the axis that has the fewest values (temperature, if that only has three, for instance), and make a 2-D worksheet for each "value" of the temperature axis. So that would result in 3 sheets, but you could flip through them with the tabs at the bottom and set them up so that relative positions on the other axis are at the same places.

Barring that, if you wanted it on one sheet, you'd probably need to put two "axes" on one dimension. For instance, 3 rows for each "solvent" value (where each row is matched with one of the temperature values).
#3
01-17-2005, 09:31 PM
 Enola Straight Guest Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Somers Point, NJ Posts: 5,856
There is a branch of algebra called Linear Programming which deals with the optimization of variables...maximization of yield, minimization of waste, etc.

Perhaps there is an on-line calculator?

Let me GOOGLE and get back to you.
#4
01-17-2005, 09:41 PM
 Enola Straight Guest Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Somers Point, NJ Posts: 5,856
http://people.hofstra.edu/faculty/St...ath9index.html

Scroll down to Simplex Method Tool under the Linear Programming section.
#5
01-17-2005, 09:52 PM
 nivlac Charter Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Golden State Posts: 2,356
asterion, From your original question, it appears that you want to store experimental values that are categorized by 3 variables. Why can't you just create a table with 4 columns? Each row will have the relevant values for the 3 variables and for your experiemental value. Sure, some of the rows will have blank entries, but so what? Any stat program (even Excel) can process the data. This question has nothing to do with linear programming.
#6
01-17-2005, 10:01 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Quote:
 Originally Posted by nivlac asterion, From your original question, it appears that you want to store experimental values that are categorized by 3 variables. Why can't you just create a table with 4 columns? Each row will have the relevant values for the 3 variables and for your experiemental value. Sure, some of the rows will have blank entries, but so what? Any stat program (even Excel) can process the data. This question has nothing to do with linear programming.
I'm doing an organic synthesis project and I don't really know what will give me the best results. I already have something similar to what you suggested, but it's kind of hard to work with. I'm looking for something where I can easily look at the table and say, "Hey, I haven't tried the reaction using this acid at this temperature in this solvent before."
#7
01-17-2005, 10:01 PM
 HMS Irruncible Guest Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,175
Quote:
 Originally Posted by asterion As an aide to my research, I am looking to make up a table that will have all the variables I need, preferably as one table. I need a temperature axis (about three temperatures), a solvent axis, and an acid axis. The easy way, of course, would be to make a solid of some sort, but it's hard to write on the inside of a solid. Is there a good way to do this in two dimensions, preferably something in Excel that I can print out and write on?
Not sure what exactly you're trying to do, but when you start talking about "a solid of some sort" that's a good sign you may be looking for some kind of relational database solution. In other words, Access rather than Excel.
#8
01-17-2005, 10:14 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Quote:
 Originally Posted by NattoGuy Not sure what exactly you're trying to do, but when you start talking about "a solid of some sort" that's a good sign you may be looking for some kind of relational database solution. In other words, Access rather than Excel.
The problem is that I've never really used Access. Excel is used all the time by scientists and so I'm really used to that. Don't get me wrong, I have a handbook on basic Access use, but I've never really dealt with databases. The only reason I mentioned a solid is that it seems obvious to me that if you have three variables, each with its own axis, the easiest way to display the results taking into account all three variables simultaneously is with a solid.
#9
01-17-2005, 10:14 PM
 don't ask Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,849
Well then you just want a table with a column each for your variables and one with just a number and from that create a 3D pivot table.
#10
01-17-2005, 10:16 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Quote:
 Originally Posted by don't ask Well then you just want a table with a column each for your variables and one with just a number and from that create a 3D pivot table.
This is done in Access? Okay, I'll pull my handbook and see if I can do it.
#11
01-17-2005, 10:17 PM
 don't ask Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,849
Are you using 2000? I'll email an example.
#12
01-17-2005, 10:18 PM
 don't ask Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,849
It's done in Excel
#13
01-17-2005, 10:18 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Quote:
 Originally Posted by don't ask Are you using 2000? I'll email an example.
2003. And thanks for the offer.
#14
01-17-2005, 10:20 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Quote:
 Originally Posted by don't ask It's done in Excel
Oh, that would explain why I've never heard of it. I only use one type of graph in Excel, and that's an XY-scatter plot.
#15
01-17-2005, 10:23 PM
 don't ask Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,849
Just go data/pivot table. It is the most useful tool in Excel once you get the hang of using them. Terrific to just throw together to look at what your data looks like when you have piles of stuff.
#16
01-17-2005, 10:48 PM
 asterion 2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 11,216
Quote:
 Originally Posted by don't ask Just go data/pivot table. It is the most useful tool in Excel once you get the hang of using them. Terrific to just throw together to look at what your data looks like when you have piles of stuff.
How much can one of these things handle? I said those three variables as those are the reaction condition variables and thus the ones I'd be changing before starting a reaction. However, I monitor reaction progress by GC using an FID and thus would have a fourth variable, time. Similarly, if I were to do this really right, I'd be entering the peak height of each reactant (two of them) and of the product I'm interested in. So now I'm up to at least four variables and three results.
#17
01-18-2005, 11:04 PM
 nivlac Charter Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Golden State Posts: 2,356
Quote:
 Originally Posted by asterion I'm doing an organic synthesis project and I don't really know what will give me the best results. I already have something similar to what you suggested, but it's kind of hard to work with. I'm looking for something where I can easily look at the table and say, "Hey, I haven't tried the reaction using this acid at this temperature in this solvent before."
Sounds like what you first need is a solid experimental design, one that will help you test your hypotheses. Then you decide how to store the data. But Excel should work fine. Learn how to use some of its data-analytic features like pivot tables (also possible in Access), subtotals, and the Data Analysis tool.

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