I have to sign a cohabitation agreement.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Typically, they’re the same as a prenuptual agreement, although in this case, since he’s been married three times already and has no desire to go that route again, there will be nothing akin to a wedding - which is fine with me.

Tonight, we had to start discussing a cohabitation agreement, which he says he should’ve really done when I moved in, but now that he’s considering buying a new house down int he LA/BevHills area, it’s a little more urgent.

Basically, he’s a CEO. The agreement says things like I will never have claim on any part of his company (I don’t want it - he built it into a success before I even knew him - and I am not litigious anyway), that the house is/will not be mine (he’s buying it - why would I want it if I am not paying for it?) and other things to that effect.

I guess my problem with this is that it’s painful - like, after all this time, you feel the need to do this? When you know I am not after these things anyway? It’s all legalese, which is cold and distancing, I felt insulted and hurt, and it made me cry. When I addressed my issues (not moving out in 3 days if we break up, I get 30, per CA law, and I want it in writing), that my job is not contingent upon our relationship (he’s not really that involved with the 'zine anyway), and some other small things, he got really angry with me, like I was stupid or something and yelled at me for getting upset, and claimed it insulted him and yelled that I know nothing about the law, etc…

I’ve never had to sign one of these things. Basically, he’ll have it drawn up, then pay for me to go see my OWN lawyer to look it over and explain it to me and I can go back to BF with any issues, etc.

Has anyone ever signed one of these things? Am I wrong for feeling initially the way I did? This is a make-or-break point, cause if I don’t sign, basically, I don’t move with him when he buys a house and likely would have to be out before then. Which, LEGALLY makes sense, but emotionally stings like a mother fu**er.

He claims that this is just something that people like him in positions like him (CEOs and the like) have to do this to protect their stuff. I already SAID I don’t want his stuff. And the times we fought about breaking up, I never threatened that I wanted his stuff…

I dunno. I have to decide a) whether to sign, b) if I was over-emotional in my reaction and owe an apology, and c) if it’s really even worth it at this point.

My heart says yes about C. I am not sure about A & B.

Any thoughts?

Inky

feeling a tad isolated

2

Damn, can a mod fix the title for me??

Inky

3

Normally I’d say that I know it feels that way, but it’s really not personal. Yes, you’ve already said you don’t want his stuff. His last three wives probably said the same thing. They probably even meant it, when they said it. But breakups get ugly.

But this:

is troubling. He should be encouraging you to make sure that you’re covered as well. How long have you been with this man? And have there been any other indications that perhaps he doesn’t have your best interests at heart?

4

Yeah, I’m thinking there’s a reason he’s been married three times already.

That being said, he is right in that even though you say you’re not interested in his business, his house, etc., he might still legally be on the hook to give you some of that should you two live together for a long time, then you two break up and you/your lawyer decide to put the smack down on him financially out of spite or entitlement. Considering his past, I’m sure he feels that this really is something he’d be stupid not to do even if he doesn’t expect he’ll ever need it. I also hope that his reaction to your complaints was out of fear rather than an ongoing issue with temper and being nasty to you when you question him - is that the case? If he has a history of acting like this, you might want to reconsider this relationship or check out counseling.

You should bring the agreement to a lawyer of your choice - he or she would be able to point out things like how quickly you’d need to move out, etc. However, you should also talk to this guy about how this was making you feel; that you understand he’s gun-shy due to his past but since you don’t have a similar past and have no plans to take his money, you were feeling defensive and hurt.

5

Do you work? If not, you should put a provision in there that he needs to support you until you get on your feet. If you do work, I suggest putting aside some money for a rainy day. I see storm clouds on the horizon.

6

I’ve become a fan of prenups after watching a few divorces. But I agree with Kalhoun - particularly if he wants you out if you break up in a less than standard 30 days (and who’d want to live with someone they broke up with for more than about five minutes) - you need a clause that if he wants you out, he gets you set up - even if that is just a decent hotel for 30 days.

My understanding from watching one (not in California, I am not a lawyer, laws may be different) is that when you move into his house, things are pretty clear that it is his house. When he buys a new house when living with you and you both move into it - even if your name isn’t on the deed and you don’t have anything to do with buying the house - things get less clear. You can start claiming you gave him cash for the downpayment, or that sacrificing your career for his enabled him to move up, or whatever. Not that you would, but he’s been burned before.

7

Hi Inky.

Oh sweetie - this sounds like a miserable experience to go through. I’m sending you a virtual hug and chocolate. Please don’t feel isolated - we’re all here!

Because of this;

[QUOTE=Ink a dink a dink]
When I addressed my issues (not moving out in 3 days if we break up, I get 30, per CA law, and I want it in writing), that my job is not contingent upon our relationship (he’s not really that involved with the 'zine anyway), and some other small things, he got really angry with me, like I was stupid or something and yelled at me for getting upset, and claimed it insulted him and yelled that I know nothing about the law, etc… QUOTE]

My opinion is that the man you are dating just doesn’t seem very good to you - yelling at you for not understanding the law, and getting upset? Getting angry with you for wanting to protect your job? Putting ‘protecting his stuff’ above your feelings? Hmmmmm…

[QUOTE=Ink a dink a dink]

He claims that this is just something that people like him in positions like him (CEOs and the like) have to do this to protect their stuff.QUOTE]

I’ve lived with a CEO/MD and I never signed anything of the sort. When we broke up I took my stuff, and he took his. I’m not on any paperwork for his company/house so I’d have to have a pretty inventive case for claiming any of it was mine!

Oh - and one other thing if it was so important that you have this piece of paper, why didn’t he insist on it when you first moved in?

In answer to your questions

A) No - not yet - only do it if you understand it 100%, and its 100% what you want too.
B)NO YOU WERE NOT.
C)From what you’ve said, I don’t think it is worth it.

I know the head counts for nothing when the heart is involved, but perhaps not moving with him to the new house wouldn’t be the worst thing that could happen.

big hugs & good luck

Ying

8

I’m trying to think if I can explain this in a way that sounds good while typing this bit out, but promising someone that you are not going to give them free stuff is one of the stronger ways of showing love… And before I get back to that–and I don’t want to defend a man for yelling at you without knowing him or what actually happened–I will offer the idea that he was feeling as much emotion as you and just didn’t react well there. You still might want to yell at him a bit for it though.

But anyways.

Well…pretty much when you’re wealthy and things are going bad for anything (not just relationships), buying your way out is always the easiest way to do it. It works, you have it and enough of it that really it doesn’t matter to just solve it that way. …And that’s just vacuous. Knowing that you can do it, solve your friends and relatives problems at any turn just immensely sucks–as does deciding that you aren’t going to not care enough about their situation to just throw money at it.

Being the person who has to kick everyone’s butt to fix their life, go out and make the phone calls they need to, all that stuff–and knowing that they know you could just buy them out of their problem sucks again. But in the end, caring about their life rather than running or solving their life is the way to show that you really are interested in their welfare. Money can be used to take them to a front row seat at the Supersonics basketball game–or whatever; something that doesn’t really matter, but is fun and will make them happy.

Of course, marriage is a lot different from friends and relatives, since you’re supposed to be all-trusting of one another. But that doesn’t make the problem with the vacuousness of money become any less true. If I were him, I wouldn’t want to give you a life you had not made yourself–you’re worth more than that. Jewelry, stupid stuff, sure; but I’m not going to give you things that matter that can be bought. Children, love, certainly, but not a house. It wouldn’t be that you’re not worthy of it, or that I didn’t trust you–just that I wouldn’t want to buy you. You’re worth more than that, and I would respect you more than that.

Which is the viewpoint of one guy who grew up wealthy and was promised for my whole childhood that I got an education and nothing but a boot to the rear when I turn 18. So, I hope you all make up and that he really isn’t just a prick.

9

Ink a dink a dink, It sounds like there might be more issues than a contract; for both of you.

A commitment is a partnership. If he doesn’t treat your concerns with the respect he expects you to treat this “agreement,” he’s not much of a partner.
CEO or not he is just a man. The difference between the two of you is merely money. Money doesn’t make him smarter, stronger or more worthy of respect.
An agreement is something you work out together, not a contract he lays before you and says “sign.”
His “just sign it” attitude, makes it sound as though he doesn’t see you as an equal.
That can’t be too good for your self-esteem. You have to respect yourself before you’ll be seen as an equal by anyone.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t have a contract, but it should protect you as much as it does him.
If he loves you and truely is committed to the two of you, maybe some couples counciling would open the lines of communication, before signing anything.
If you feel like this today, how will you feel living in “His” house? You aren’t a pet.

10

I’ll chime in with the people who are saying things like ‘see a lawyer of your own’ and that you should have the right to make sure your concerns are addressed in the agreement.

And good luck Ink!!

11

Man, I was thinking the same thing.

To be honest, I actually am more concerned that he has had 3 failed marriages already than that he has asked for you to sign this damn thing.

The contract seem trivial to me. I can see why it upset you, but I can see why he wanted one.

His actions are the parts that concern me. As I said, I understand why he wants this, but I understand why you were upset - he *should understand *too! If he can’t, then there are real problems there.

A. Have a lawyer look at it and explain it.
B. No.
C. Your call. There isn’t enough info here for me to give good advice.

12

I agree those who have said that you should choose your own lawyer and have the agreement looked over carefully. But I would also urge you to try not to be upset about being asked to sign the thing. If he has children, he’s trying to protect his assets so that they will inherit them (eventually). Also, he may have been through a lot of financial trouble with his prior three divorces, and he wants to prevent that from happening again. So don’t cry, and try not to take it personally. Just make sure you have a good attorney. Since you genuinely don’t want his income or his house anyway, there shouldn’t be much problem (except for the 3 days moving out thing).

13

As to his yelling, is that a part of a larger pattern? Is he often impatient and patronizing? Or is he usually a great guy and this is unusual behavior? Its possible he went into requesting this expecting a fight, so he made one to get the fight out of the way - it wouldn’t be the first time that happened. And sometimes when something is so blindingly obvious to someone who deals in a subject (like a CEO is probably familiar with contracts, and a guy who has been divorced three times familiar with property law) they can come off as really patronizing when you don’t get it.

If this is part of a larger pattern, than what are you doing with this guy? If this is unusual, then try to see the situation from his side - a lot invested, thrice burned, and expecting you to put up a battle. If you really don’t care about the stuff, then what is the problem with signing the cohabit? If he really does care about you, he will not mind that the cohabit carries a provision to get you out of the relationship without having to move in with some friend for three months.

14

Done.

15

Have you talked to any of his former wives to get a better feel on the situation ?

16

Ink, I’m a lawyer in California, but what follows isn’t legal advice (which should become very clear, very soon). I don’t do this kind of law, and have never seen a cohab agreement.

If I were ever to get married, I would seriously consider a prenuptial agreement, simply because my cold, little, shriveled lawyer’s heart ( :wink: ) thinks it sounds like a rational approach to a relationship. It resolves potential disputes in advance. It sounds to me like you are, at least theoretically, on board with signing a cohab agreement, but that two issues have been raised by your discussion of it: the terms, and his treatment of you.

As to the terms, my suggestion is that get him to agree to pay for a lawyer of your choice to review the contract with you. Interview a few lawyers, and confirm that they understand that you are the client. (To those of you who are concerned about having the BF pay for the lawyer, lawyers have ethical obligations to the client, even if someone else is paying the bill. If the lawyer believes it is a conflict of interest – that he or she will not be able to discharge his or her obligations to the client because the person paying the bills is making demands – the lawyer must withdraw from the representation. The lawyer cannot favor the person paying the bills over the client.) Once you’ve interviewed a few lawyers, choose one that you like.

(For some reason, I think you’re in SF. If so, consider Deb Kinney; she was recently featured in a lawyer’s magazine for her work with estate planning for gay and lesbian couples; not your situation, but a cohab agreement is a cohab agreement is a cohab agreement. Anyway, she might be an option, if she does this kind of work.)

As to his treatment of you, I have no real suggestions to make, other than that you talk to him about how it made you feel. Best of luck.

17

Now you have had the opportunity to see my incisive legal mind at work. I take a bunch of little things (like the fact that your location says “San Francisco”) and add them up to come to the conclusion that, indeed, you’re in SF.

No charge for this folks, but feel free to admire my brilliance.

18

The thing is, though that he should have been very happy that she raised her concerns, especially since they seem perfectly legitimate to me. It means that she understands what the agreement is for, and sees the value in it. His reaction is more in keeping with a high-pressure salesman. How does she know she’ll have a job if they break up? Does he feel she should take his word for it?

19

Hon, I’m sorry. Ouch. Of course you’re hurt. But do give him the benefit of the doubt - perhaps he didn’t realize how painful this would be for you. Only you know him best.

But what’s most telling to me is that last bit, the part that you’re SOL if you don’t sign it. If he’s on the up and up, doing this for solid reasons (and if he’s really committed to the relationship), it seems to me that not signing wouldn’t be a deal-breaker that means the end of your relationship. But from what I’m reading here, it is. And that spells bad news to me.

If you are going to go through with it, definitely look it over with a lawyer. When you do so, take a step back and consider it coldly, without looking through the lens of your relationship. That is, he’s drawing this up to look out for himself; you need to do the same. Look at it and do what’s best for you without thinking of his feelings. Afterwards, you can talk and repair any damage.

Best of luck to you - we’re all pulling for you.

20

I’m not critizing her concerns. I’m just saying that perhaps his attitude was a result of “I’m expecting a fight.” She has valid concerns that should be addressed when she takes the contract to her attorney.

i.e. I wouldn’t dump him over this one case of wanting a cohabit and not handling requesting one well - its a hard thing to ask for and has opened up his vulnerabilities as well as hers. However, if being dismissive of her needs is a pattern for him, I’d start looking for a new place now.

(On the other hand, you bring up a good point. If he is dismissive of her needs in general, getting a cohabit before SHE dumps him - or at least using his dime to talk to an attorney - might be a good idea due to the job situation. I am fairly sure (IANAL) that sexual harrassment case law covers getting fired after a relationship ends, so she may be covered there anyway, but talking to an attorney may keep her bases covered.)