Can a green card "marriage" achieve its purpose?

In My Humble Opinion
1

A friend of mine told me today that, after much deliberation, he’s going to marry this woman he knows so she doesn’t get deported to Italy. He’s attracted to her but before all this had been very ambivalent about even asking her out (he’s 28, she’s only 20 not exactly the brightest bulb, or so I’m told).

While I am getting a kick out of my friend’s life becoming a sitcom (and even he admits the ridiculousness of it is somewhat appealing), I do have a couple questions: Do the immigration people actually check to see if the marriage is valid in anyway? Like, do they make sure you live together, etc.? And what are the legal risks of all this? Can people get “caught” in one of these things? Is it even necessarily illegal if the marriage is, in the state’s eyes, legit? Also, he said he’d have to remain married for at least three years… anyone know anything about that?

Not that anything I learn and tell him will change his mind at this point. They applied for the marriage license today and should be getting hitched on Tuesday. No word on whether things will be, ahem, consummated.

2

I had a friend, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, whose neighbor offered to marry her, as a favor, and she decided not to because of all the checking that the INS would have done. Plus, it would have been extra illegal, as she lived with her husband (married in Mexico) and kids.

Also, my brother married a legal immigrant, and they get checked too.

I don’t think this is a good plan for him, but if, like you said, its too late to stop them, tell them congrats and buy them a wedding present. I would have liked a rice maker. Waffle irons are also very popular. Since she’s Italian, maybe an assortment of fancy imported pasta?

3

No advice to give, but I remember a thread from a few months ago on the subject.

4

It doesn’t sound like it will work from what I know of current immigration problems. Which is all second-hand…a couple of years ago a coworker married (legally, or legitimately, or however you say it) a Mexican, and because of some tiny little mistake in the filing of the proper forms he ended up having to leave the country–despite being legally married–and things got to be such a mess that, last I heard, they were both living in Mexico.

One of my cousins married an eastern European woman and there were immigration concerns on both sides. (She was a doctor, educated here, apparently her home country thought she had made some kind of a commitment to practice there.) They lived in Europe for awhile, apart for awhile, then in Ireland, finally got the go-ahead to move and live back here but by then they had decided they were incompatible.

What I’m saying is that getting married is not necessarily an immigration slam-dunk. I think it used to be much easier.

5

I’ve never understood how this works. My Thai wife and I met IN the US, as students in Hawaii, we weren’t married until we returned to Thailand. The US recognizes our marriage, BUT if we ever decide to move back to the US – which is highly unlikely – it’s not automatic they’ll allow her to live there. There’s a process we’ll have to go through.

We knew another Thai student in Hawaii, a lady who was married to an American. She was getting her doctorate, and SHE was told that after her degree, she could live in the US ONLY after she had returned to Thailand and lived here for a specified period (I forget how long). I know another American here, married to a Thai, they have a child, marriage recognized, and they’ve started the paperwork process. Not an automatic walk-in.

So how does it work with these people who can marry someone, and that person does not have to leave the country then?

EDIT: Just to add, the lady doctoral student was told LONG befor 9/11 that she had to return to Thailand before living in the US. And my wife and I were married long before 9/11, too. So this wasn’t terrorist fears or anything like that. Seems to have been like this for a long time.

6

I never really understood how they determine if the marriage is authentic. Surely the people meeting in Vegas and eloping the next day aren’t all US citizens?

7

We had to submit documents to the US Embassy in Bangkok. Mostly marriage-related Thai-government documents. Registration, that sort of thing. So now the US (and Thailand and everywhere else) considers us legal, but the wife still needs a visa to visit the US. (She keeps a 10-year visa updated in her passport.)

8

SNec, this is basically not a good idea. I worked as a Legal Assistant in Family-Based Immigration for a couple of years. What I’m going to tell you is based on my memory and my understanding of the law at that time (1998), but I impress upon you strongly to tell your friend that he absolutely must talk to an immigration attorney before he marries this girl.

There are non-profit offices that handle immigration. Check in your area, if he can’t afford a for-profit attorney.

They will absolutely get checked to see if the marriage is legit, entered into in good faith and not for immigration benefits only, and that they had and have a real relationship. Immigration will want to see proof of a relationship prior to the marriage. Like photos of them together, phone records showing they called each other, letters, emails, financial documents (ie - proof they were living together in the same apartment and paying rent). Immigration will likely interview their friends and family to verify they are/were a legit couple. Documents of this type are generally good to submit with the application, but INS can/will also ask for this afterwards.

They will have to be interviewed, seperately and together, about their relationship.

Your friend will have to submit all kinds of financial records to demonstrate he earns enough to sponsor her, if they pass the application/interview process.

The risk for your friend can be up to jail time, IIRC. The risk to your friend’s Italian friend can be deportation and a lifetime bar from re-entering the US, IIRC.

Do you know what type of Visa the Italian is here on? Is she a tourist? Is she a student? Is she working legally under an employment Visa?

The Italian should also talk to an Immigration attorney before proceeding. The office I worked in did this alot (if the immigrant met our income level requirements), just a review of their situation/options.

A US State’s recognition of the marriage as legal is completely seperate from the Immigration Law’s recognition of a legitimate marriage for purposes of immigration benefits.

Yes, they will have to remain married for a certain amount of time, typically. I won’t go into the exceptions to this, because I don’t remember them well.

9

I am married to an American citizen and went through my first INS interview 2 years ago. I am Canadian though. They do ask questions, but ours is a legitimate marriage and pretty straightforward. We were not separated but they did want to see documents like joint bank account and some bills in both our names. They did not ask to see any photos and did not ask any personal questions except how we met. The INS did ask if we were going to have children but she said she was just being nosy and I didn’t have to answer it. The INS interview was pretty easy though. She was mostly conversing with our lawyer and my husand and I just sat there as she tried to change our home address on her screen. We brought all our documentation with us such as photos, copies of forms, bills. We were talked through what to expect by our lawyer and we didn’t get asked very many questions. I have my second interview sometime this year and I hope it goes just as easy. My only recommendation is get a lawyer and have a consultation and see if this is good or passable idea. I mean you have to be the guarantor of this person. You have to produce your income taxes to show that you make a certain amount and have some joint things in your names.

10

Its not often I say this, but seriously this is a horrible idea. Leaving aside the arguments about the legality of it. Suppose she gets the visa? Suppose three years down the road, they choose to divorce? Does she get half of his stuff? Are they signing a prenup? Does he pay alimony?

He is opening himself up for a world of hurting.

11

The main reason we were concerned with having the US recognize our marriage was for the wife’s visa – she keeps a 10-year visa updated in her passport at all times. But she’s really not interested in becoming a US citizen. No problem with doing so, just simply not interested. Her career and family are here; I have no close family or property left in the US. So we’re pretty much settled here.

But the first time we went in for her visa, the embassy official, who was trying to be helpful, kept trying to give us all the information needed for her to apply to live in the US. He honestly could not understand that we weren’t interested in that. Other Americans married to Thais here who are also not interested in moving to the US have told me of similar experiences. Kind of funny the way they think that everyone just must want to live there.

Of course, I swear there must be about a thousand visa applicants at the embassy on any given day, it’s a real crowd, so I can see why they WOULD think in these terms. And I guess the vast majority of Americans marrying Thais DO go back to the US at some point, so we must seem like real oddballs to them.

12

Your friend may be one of the dumbest people alive. Marrying and obtaining a green card is difficult, even when you do it through the proper channels like I did (Visas and the like). If your friends fake marriage is found out to be what it is, he’ll be deported (or put in jail, I’m not sure exactly what they do - and if they jail him there’s a chance they’ll do that to his American spouse as well).

A friend of mine (also Canadian) and his wife went to their interview to ‘prove’ the validity of their marriage. They had wedding pictures, joint bank account statements, lease and Og knows what else with them. They were sent away to get MORE proof - and this is a valid marriage wherein they’d been married for nearly two years, together for three more.

Our interview was straightforward. One of the things that made it that way was the fact that I had a child with my American husband.

13

That’s a spectacularly stupid idea on so many levels. There are so many ways it could go wrong for both of them.

I came here from Canada at the end of April, 1998 and was married within two weeks. Then we filed for my Green Card and work permit. Since the final interview, when I was approved, we haven’t heard a word from the INS. If they wanted to check up on us, I imagine they have full access to our tax records, etc., but they’ve never called or written. Maybe we seemed too legit to raise any flags for them. My father-in-law signed as my guarantor, but we’ve never needed him to support us, and they’ve never contacted him, either. That’s our experience.

But as for this “Green Card marriage” situation… what everybody else said.

14

Ugh. What an awful, awful idea.

As a Canadian who legitimately (and happily) married an American and went through the insanity of immigration (now a proud Permanent Resident) - there’s not a damn thing easy about it.

Your friend could be sent to jail for pulling a stunt like this, and his “wife” deported, with little or no chance to return to the US ever again, if I’m remembering the penalties correctly. It’s not something to take lightly. This is no sit-com.

Awful idea.

ETA: What **niblet_head ** said.

15

That sounds like she was on a J-1 exchange visitor visa, which is commonly used for graduate study and various types of exchange programs (and sometimes formal professional training programs). If that’s the case, participants are sometimes required to return to their home countries for 2 years before returning to the U.S. in any other status; it depends on their nationality and their skillset, and is a requirement they should have been quite well-informed of before accepting the opportunity to come to the U.S. on a J-1 visa. Marrying a U.S. citizen is not an automatic exemption from the home country residence requirement.

The reason for the two-year home country residence requirement has nothing whatsoever to do with national security and far predates 9/11; it’s to prevent brain drain in the participants’ home countries. Certain waivers of the home country residence requirement are available, but the application process is quite a pain in the ass, and obtaining a waiver is by no means automatic.

Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal

16

My son was (legitimately) married to a Dutch woman. The INS interviewed them at irregular intervals for almost three years before she got her green card. Someone would show up at their house, unannounced to see if they were both living there. They had to travel from Fort Myers to Tallahassee twice a year for separate interviews.

My husband’s brother married a woman from Indonesia who may or may not be married to someone else. She had no last name when they met. His boss "encouraged him to marry her so she could keep her job at the nursing home where they both worked. They have since “fallen in love.” :dubious: She had very little problem getting a green card. I really don’t understand.

17

Good lord, if that’s in comparison to him, can she even feed and clothe herself?

18

Been there, but my wife just overstayed her tourist visa.

When they get married, they should apply immediately for her green card, change in status, AND temporary permission to work. The day that goes in the mail, they should get SOMETHING that has both their names on it (like a joint checking account). If they’re going to make it legit, they should also BOTH be on the lease.

As long as you can show that you have both names on something legal, the INS is typically pretty happy. My wife and I still passed, and we only had a lease. We still didn’t have a joint checking acct for her citizenship, either.

19

You know what’s a bad idea? Marrying someone to get them a green card. You know what’s an even worse idea? Telling other people that you’re marrying someone to get a green card. Next time you see your friend, be sure to thank him for making you a co-conspirator.

20

I’m a little surprised to read about all the stringent investigation being mentioned in this thread (separate interviews, surprise visits, etc.). When my wife and I went through the process we were expecting to be grilled, based on imagined ideas of how rigorous it would be (fueled partially by having watched the movie “Green Card.”)

Instead we had about a 10-minute interview with a fairly friendly agent who asked one or two questions about how we met and where we lived. I did most of the talking, and we weren’t interviewed separately at all. We’d brought pictures and utilities statements, etc., showing our common residence, but weren’t asked to show them. It was considerably briefer and easier than we’d feared.

Then again, this was a) more than 10 years ago, b) might’ve been atypical, and c) we were really a legitimate married couple with plenty of documentation to support it, so maybe our legitimacy might’ve come across in our general demeanor. Plus I’d learned to speak Portuguese, which I guess one might not bother doing for a marriage of convenience.

My wife does her a lot of discussion among her immigrant acquaintances about “green card marriages,” but I don’t know anyone personally who’s tried it, or how common or successful it is. On the other hand, there seems to be no shortage of American guys who are willing to give a “real” marriage a go, especially if it involves a Brazilian woman younger and hotter than he’s accustomed to qualifying for here in the U.S. And many of those marriages seem to unravel shortly after the immigration process is completed.