There’d been a few past threads about the problems with cancelling AOL accounts.
But then Cervaiseposts an idea which got me thinking–what’s to stop customers (who have the technology) from recording their calls into the company?
If I called AOL, or Bank of America, or Mom & Pop’s Cookie Store in Sandusky, Ohio and said to the representative, “I am a customer. This call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes. . .” or something to that effect, what’s the legality of such a thing? I would think it’s legal in all 50 states because I’m declaring it up front. Whether or not I choose to record it is up to me. . . Would it improve customer service? I mean, they’re recording me, so why couldn’t I record them?
Has anyone tried this before? If so, did it work?
Tripler
This post may be recorded. . . . aw hell. This thread will self destruct in 5 seconds.
I work in customer service. I’m not sure of the legality of it, but I’ve had a customer tell me they were recording the call. I had no problem with it and continued the call. I recorded on my end too of course.
Start here—it’s the best Internet reference on the subject I’ve so far encountered. It may not address your exact question, but it should at least give you a firm overview of the subject.
IANAL but so far as I know, it’s entirely legal to record telephone calls so long as both parties* are aware and give their consent (presumably by not hanging up). That’s why you get the “For quality control purposes, this call may be recorded” announcement when you call a customer service number these days.
*There are obvious exceptions, like warranted wire taps and the like; I’m talking about your ordinary citizens and companies here.
There was a story on NPR just last weekend (“This American Life”) where they had one of their staffers trying to sort out a problem with MCI (it was a story about awful customer service). At one point they decided to bring their journalistic might to bear so they called up MCI and said “We are recording this call to use on an international radio show”.
The first-level support had no problem with it. Then his manager got on the line. Her first words were “Stop recording right now or I will hang up.”
So given that both parties are made aware that you are recording it’s legal (AFAIK and IANAL, just what I’ve read in the front of my phone book) but don’t necessarily expect some company to cooperate, they are free to end the call.
Interesting. I understand both parties can record each other as long as they both know they’re being recoded, but why should a business be able to cancel a costumer service call based purely on the fact it’s being recorded? I cannot conduct business with a company without it being recorded, shouldn’t the company be required to conduct its business with me while being recorded?
In New Jersey, it is legal to do as long as one of the parties knows the call is being taped (no third party tapes). So they would be no problem with doing it here.
In many states, it’s legal to tape record your call without telling the other person. The problem is that when you call “customer service,” you don’t necessarily know what state the other person is in.
Also, it occurs to me that if the other party announces that it is recording the call, it is arguably consenting to you recording the call too.
I doubt these issues have been tested much in court. On the other hand, it strikes me as unlikely that anyone would be prosecuted for tape recording a call to customer service.
Personally, when I call customer service, I always tape unless I happen to know that the call is being routed into a state that requires the other person’s consent.
I was called by a fast talking bank representative a few months ago offering me a loan at a really favorable interest rate. I tape recorded the call which is legal where I live as far as I know. The bank has refused to honor the promised interest rate and I have filed a complaint with the appropriate agency. I advised them that I had tape recorded the call. If you are curious, I will let you know how it turns out. Unless I get into trouble. Hehe.
If I am told by a human being that a call will be recorded, I refuse to grant them permission. The usual reaction is stunned disbelief and a plaintive “Why not?” I always say simply that I don’t want my calls recorded. Drives 'em nuts.
You could argue that the phrase “This call may be recorded for Quality Assurance purposes” is effectively giving you permission to record the call, and not just a notification that they might be recording. That would depend on the wording though.
If the OP wants to know if he can record calls he makes as long as he tells the other party (or parties, if there are more than one) that he is making a recording, the link that Washoe posted makes it clear that the answer is “yes” everywhere in the U.S. As long as all parties consent, the recording is legal.
Furthermore, in all but 12 states (n.b. Projammer, not three or four) he can legally make a recording without telling the other parties, but only as long as they are not in one of the 12 so-called “two-party” states.
However, the OP seems to imply the question that brazil84 asks, and that I asked several months ago: If the other party says he is recording and I consent, can I record without his explicit consent to my recording, since both parties have consented to a recording? In other words, does consent imply approval of any and all recordings, or only of those explicitly disclosed?
This specific question wasn’t answered in my thread, and nothing I’ve read here or in the links posted here answers it either.
Are you sure you CANNOT conduct business with the company without the call being recorded? Personally from the centres I’ve worked in it simply comes down to recording the call for quality assurance. If you don’t want the call recorded, you say up front “I don’t want this call monitored and recorded” and any persons listening/recording are then obligated to terminate their monitoring of the call and that’s that. I believe (in Australia) that the relevant ombudsman for the company can actually fine them if they’re found to be recording calls where the customer has withdrawn permission.
The CSR will then continue the call as normal, probably a bit more relaxed because they know then that their manager isn’t looking over their shoulder trying to find out what they have or haven’t done on this call.
The only time I’ve encountered a situation where the company NEEDED to record a call was when signing up for a new service over the phone. Because you can’t sign anything over the phone, companies use voice recording software to gain your verbal agreement to the contract you’re entering into so if there’s any dispute (either from your end or their end) there’s a record to refer back to, rather than just notes entered by the sales rep. But again, apart from that portion of the call, you can request that the rest of the call not be monitored or recorded and they have to comply.
I don’t think there is any answer to the question, because it will depend on how a judge interprets the applicable statute. As far as I know, this issue has never been decided by any court.
Further, it may never be decided, since it would probably require a prosecutor to decide to bring charges against somebody for taping such a call. Realistically, it’s unlikely that any prosecutor would bring those sorts of charges.
Do any of the statutes allow for a private right of action? Even if some do, it’s also unlikely that AOL or whatever would sue one of its customers for taping a call that AOL itself may have taped. They would look silly.
This post is applicable to California specifically, although I can’t imagine courts from other “two-party consent” states deviating very from the same findings.
Of course, IANAL, IANYL, and this info is based on my own personal research and above-average layman’s knowledge of California state law.
In Flanagan v Flanagan (March 2002), the California Supreme Court held that the recording of communications was prohibited if one or more parties had reasonable belief that the call was not being recorded, or was otherwise not able to be overheard.
Since the company you’re calling has no reason to believe the call is not being recorded (hell, they told you right at the beginning that the call was being recorded) then there should be no reason that you can’t record the call yourself.
Telephone recordings obtained contrary to law are not admissible as evidence in a court of law, either criminal or civil.
I’m interested to hear more. I briefly worked at a very shady call center where basically we mislead people into thinking we were their bank and able to offer them lower interest rates (for a fee, as you’d eventually find out.) The customer would get an automated phone call telling them to dial 1 for cheap interest rates, then they’d be transferred to us, self identifying as “Card Services” (we were not allowed to elaborate.) Basically it was all a long misleading sales pitch to receive a very questionable service/product. Are you sure it was your bank that called you?
Positive. But I have since learned that this bank – I’ll call it Bank X – is a bit shady. When I called the regional office of the federal agency that regulates Bank X, the first option on their menu system was something like “If you have a complaint about Bank X, press 1”
Different countries, different rules. The US Federal Government put in our 2007 contract to provide Medicare prescription services that all service calls from those members had to be recorded. Every … single … one. :eek: