Why do I have to dial 1 for long distance now that it's ten digit dialing?

Everywhere I go now they have ten digit dialing. I live in area code 905, and if it’s a 905 number close by I have to dial the full number, 905-123-4567.

But if it’s a 905 number far away, like in Pickering, I have to put a 1 in front of it because it’s long distance. Or if it’s in another area code, it’s long distance, so I need a 1.

I don’t get it. What’s the point of the 1 anymore? When we were doing 7-digit dialling for local and 10 for long distance I can understand it because the 1 tells the exchange to expect 10 numbers, not 7, and so not to try connecting until I’ve put in 10 more numbers. But if I’m dialling long distance, it’s pointless. I’m always going to dial ten numbers in North America. If your number is 212-555-7186, there’s no other 212-555-7186, and since I must dial ten digits, the phone company shouldn’t be fooled into thinking I’m trying to call someone at 212-5557.

What the hell is up with this?

Still says, “I’m dialing long distance” more or less.

Not quite. Here, we can still dial 7 digits for a number.

It’s not here. 7 digit dialing here.

And here we have 10-digit dialing but you can be charged for a toll call *without *dialing 1 if it’s in the area but outside of something like 20 miles.

I think it’s just a matter of time (50 years) before there is national 10-digit dialing and your area code no longer corresponds to a geographic area. Area code overlays were the first wave. Portable cell phone numbers are the second wave.

What the hell is “dialing” anyway?!

:wink:

It may not be the phone companies’ reason, but it’s nice to be able to tell when you’re making a long distance call. I figured it was toll-free to call from my work to home, but attempting to call without dialing 1 failed. That’s nice to know so I don’t rack up a phone bill.

Welcome to the hell that is ‘mandatory toll alerting’. For the benefit of foreigners and people who live in non-toll-alerting areas of the North American Numbering Plan, let me explain…

In Ontario, we dial 1 or 0 for long-distance calls, and dial no such digit for local calls. The 1 or 0 serves as a ‘toll alert’ for the more-expensive long-distance calls.

Other areas in North America dial 1 or 0 before an area code, and nothing before an exchange code. In areas with ten-digit dialling, this means that they dial 1 or 0 all the time, since they’re dialling area codes all the time, even on local calls.

Whether a call is local or not depends on the location of both caller and recipient, and often cannot be figured out by the customer from the numbers involved. (The phone company looks up the ‘V&H’ codes–the telephone equivalent of latitude and longitude–for the locations of both caller and recipient, and uses that to figure out whether the call is local and how much to charge if it isn’t.)

In large area codes, it is often long-distance to call from one place to another in the same area code. It’s long-distance to call from Oshawa, Ontario, to Niagara Falls, Ontario, and both are in the 905 area code.

There are oddities: for example, it’s a local call from Streetsville to downtown Toronto, and a local call from Georgetown to downtown Toronto, but it’s long-distance from Streetsville to Georgetown. Which are next to each other and closer to each other than to downtown Toronto.

This all goes back to Bell’s calculations of local monthly phone rates based on what areas were accessible without long-distance calls. Remember, we have unlimited local calling. So when local calling was opened from a town to the Big City, it was a big deal for the townies and affected their rates. The city-dwellers probably didn’t notice. Towns around the big city tend to have local calling radially inwards to the city, but often forget to make each other local.

The problem? Bell Canada, at least, does not allow you to dial 1 or 0 before a local call. If you do, you get an error message saying that it’s a local call. But if you can’t tell whether a call is long-distance or not, there’s nothing to do but try it as a local call, and if it doesn’t work, try it again as a long-distance call. It’s maddening.

What Bell ought to do is allow 1 or 0 plus the ten-digit number on all calls, local or not. This would essentially signify, “I don’t know whether this call is long-distance, but I’m willing to pay timed charges if it is. Let the call go though.”

The system’s smart enough to know whether the call is local or long-distance; it just needs a bit of tweaking. An option on the “this is not a long-distance call” error message to let the call go through would be nice as well.

This has been a major grudge for years in telecom discussion groups.

This also applies mostly to traditional land-line calling. Mobile phones are more flexible, not least because all their calls are timed by the minute.

Sunspace. Wow. Great freakin’ answer. We’ve had 10 digit dialing in the 613 area code for … maybe a year now? It is very infuriating. Here’s what routinely happens to me:

  • Dial 7 digit number - get error message for 10 digit dialing. (OK, I’m getting better at remembering this now.)
  • Dial 10 digit number - get error message because the call is long distance.
  • Dial 1 + 10 digit number - get error message that call is not in fact long distance.

When I type in websites I can omit the http://. I can also omit the www. I get to my destination perfectly fine. I realize the cost implications are different, but yes, the proposal for allowing 0 and or 1 would help a lot.

If in the area code area that you are calling from if there is a 212 prefex there can be a 212-5557 phone mumber. If you do not include the exchange will begin to attempt to connect you when you hit the 7. Any additional dialing will not change the call.

Only if you have seven-digit local dialling, and the 212 exchange is local to the caller. But RickJay, in area code 905, has ten-digit dialling. If there’s a 905-212-5557 number local to him, there is no possible way he can dial it starting with ‘212’; he must dial starting with ‘905’.

If there’s a 212 exchange code (“prefix”) in the 212 area code, and seven-digit dialling is allowed, that does indeed lead to the ambiguity you describe, Snnipe 70E. (The full number would be 212-212-xxxx.) In ten-digit-dialling areas, it would work. But even in ten-digit-dialling areas, the Canadian numbering administrator discourages assigning exchange codes that are the same as locally-accessible area codes.

This is why we have fought overlays and 10digit dialing here so strongly.

The problem in some areas there are so many prefexis that some of them match area codes in other areas. I will bet in the 415 and 408 area codes there are prefexes 905 and 212.

In fact there were plans to split San Jose into two area codes for the city because the phone co was running out of prefexes.

Part of it is preperation for future conversion when we will do to more number than 7 digits.

Here’s an excellent site that gives you all you ever wanted to know about area codes

It was only running out of prefixes due to the way it was transferring numbers to other companies that wanted to do business here- they were transfering # 10,000 at a time, even if the other company only needed 100.

The San Jose area has about 1 million people. There’s about 10 million combos in an area code.

The plan was fought and the PUC ruled it couldn’t go forward, there was no need.

Note that there are slightly less than 10 billion total numbers in a 10 digit system. There’s only 6.5 billion people on the Earth- a good number of which need food more than phones.

The problem with not allowing 1 or 0 on local calls doesn’t really have anything to do with whether area codes are mandatory. However, if you live in a non-toll-alerting area (“1 or 0 = following area code, local call or not”, not “1 or 0 = long-distance”), it’s a little different. In non-toll-alerting areas, you dial the 1 (or 0, presumably) on ten-digit local calls, since they include the area code. You can’t dial a ‘bare’ ten digits for local calls, as we in Ontario must.

Is San Jose a non-toll-alerting area?

(Aren’t different dialling plans great? (Not numbering plans–all of us in the NANP have the same numbering plan. The dialling plan covers all the extra digits you dial around the actual phone number: the trunk access digit (1 or 0), and also things like carrier selection codes (101-xxxx to pick a phone company for the call). And North America has different dialling plans in different areas.)

I maintain that ten-digit dialling is actually easier overall. There’s a one-time bother of set up, but after that, area codes can be added with no effects on existing numbers. With area-code splits, half the people involved have to change their numbers, and there’s no guarantee that some of them won’t have to change their numbers again if their’s another split.

Markxxx, your future is my present. :slight_smile:

And that was because they had to assign phone numbers by the exchange-full: the system that looked at a number to figure out which competing phone company only looked at the first six digits (area code plus exchange code).

So if the first three numbers in 408-555 belonged to Phone Company A, they had to give all ten thousand numbers in 408-555 to Phone Company A, and start Phone Company B off with 408-556, because there was no way to tell the system that 408-555-0xxx belonged to A, and 408-555-1xxx to B. The billing system could not distinguish beyond the sixth digit in 408-555.

They changed the system and extended the recognition to the seventh digit to support ‘thousands-block pooling’, so now they could hand out the 0xxx block an an exchange to A and the 1xxx block to B.

I suspect that Local Number Portability (LNP) was the next step in this, and they are now recognizing the whole number. Under LNP, you can take any single number from Phone Company A to Phone Company B. Thus, 408-555-0122 would belong to Phone Company A, 408-555-0123 would belong to Phone Company B, and 408-555-0124 would belong to Phone Company A.

SAn Jose is the 408 area code. You call inside the area code with the 7 digit number. When calling outside 408 you must put the 1 first.

At one time North Bay was 415 and South Bay was 408 from Sunnyvale to King City. Both went through multiply splits and then split again.

In a 10-digit dialing area (which San Jose is not), you have to dial the area code even for a local call.

Ed

L know and am glad. With the talk of splitting SJ the area code would have been required for all calls.