I started rereading this today.
It seems to me that the deaths may well have a logic to them. Kinslaying and Incest seem to bring punishment. I think Eddard died not just because he was stupid and expected Cersei to act with some honor, but also in killing Lady, he killed part of his daughter Sansa, so it was a kinslaying. Anyone else think that is the case?
I’m not sure - like in Shakespeare, and unlike Greek drama, the characters in the story are brought down by their own internal flaws and not the “will of the gods.” For instance, I think Ned, like Robb, Sansa and his late father and brother, suffered from the Stark Curse, namely, that they assumed that all people were as honorable as they are, and thus had a fatal blind spot when it came to human duplicity. It was that, and not his actions regarding Lady, that led to his death.
I think that their internal flaws may well lead to both their death and the ill will of the Gods. I do think that the gods are quite willing to interfere, as we have seen those expected to die rise again.
By “will of the gods” I pretty much meant fate, and not so much actual divine intervention. I mean, we don’t know which of the gods worshipped in Martin’s world actually exist, if any, and what their powers really are (my current theory are that Ice and Fire are both raw, unthinking elemental forces, the Old Gods are basically the spirit of the forests, and all other gods - including the Seven - are just superstition).
Apart from Melisandre and the one priest (Theros?), do we see any other evidence of this?
We have Catelyn, Lord Beric (the lightning lord)…and I want to say that Melisandre saved Stannis at some point.
Anyone else? I’m not going to count the Others UnDeadifying people.
-Joe
Actually, I think it’s interesting that both the Others (ice) and R’hllor (fire) bring people back from the dead, in one form or another (and I don’t think that either Berek Dondarrion or Catelyn were brought all the way back from death). I have a feeling that both forces have a lot more in common than we think.
My theory on the deaths of major characters is that there is nothing unifying them all. That is to say, characters die senseless and pointless deaths, for no reason, accomplishing nothing. This is what sets Martin’s books apart from other fantasy novels. There’s nothing unusual about major characters dieing, but it usually happens in a very noble way, with the death being some sort of sacrifice that saves someone or something else. In Martin’s world, all the characters who die have pointedly failed to achieve what they wanted in life. Consider:
Lord Eddard
Viserys
Khal Drogo
Lord Mormont (The Old Bear)
Catelyn Stark
Rob Stark
Baelon Greyjoy
Craster
Renly Baratheon
I agree with this. I think it’s just part of the “game of thrones”. Somebody is going to lose and their death isn’t going to be spectacular or meaningful.
Well, it may be overly dark, but let’s face it, people fail.
Look at Renly. He was just plain murdered. I think most murder victims fall into the ‘not spectacular’ and ‘didn’t finish things’ category.
-Joe
Besides that, in Ned’s case someone had to be the duke of York or there wouldn’t be much of a game of thrones to begin with.
Bear in mind that many of those deaths may be senseless, but none of them are pointless - they all act to advance the plot.
Eddard was simply way out of his league, his head got chopped off because he literally had no clue what he was getting into. Dealing with Petyr, warning Cersei, arguing with Robert, the guy might as well have marched himself to the headsman.
The man, while a gifted leader, had zero political instincts. One gets the impression that Catelyn was the true political mind of the family: both Ned and Robb made their most boneheaded decisions while away from her or while ignoring her. Her instincts were *always *right.
Catelyn made her own share of catastrophic blunders so im not sure i would call her a true political mind either. And im not talking about freeing Jamie, that was purely an emotional mother reaction. Robb put Roose Bolton in charge of half his army because of her. She also pushed Eddard to take the hand position, kidnapped Tyrion and pushed for the engagement of Sansa.