Married/single in languages other than English

I can’t believe this hasn’t come up here, but I did a couple of searches and couldn’t find it.

In the last 30+ years, English speakers have adopted the term “Ms.” to hide the single/married status of a woman, especially in business. Good idea, I think.

Have the French, the Germans, the Spanish, the Italians, who all have differing words for a married woman and a single woman, also adopted such a term? If so, what is it?

In Mexican Spanish, one may be inclined to use “seño” when you’re unsure if it’s a “señorita” or a “señora.” It’s in no way common, and I never hear it used by the professional people I work with, although the hourly people sometimes use it. I’m not saying it’s class-based; I don’t know; that’s just my impression. It may be more common than I’ve heard it.

There is no equivalent to “Ms.” in French, as far as I know. Mlle and Mme tend to have somewhat of an age distinction nowadays - sometime in my mid 20s people started defaulting to the latter (though they may have noticed my wedding ring; I got married at 24).

Slight hijack: I’ve long suspected that this sort of stuff bothers English-speakers much more than others. The language we use colors the way we think. The lack of gender-specific nouns, verbs and adjectives, and the inclusion of gender-neutral pronouns (it, we, them) raises our sensitivity to these issues. But to others, to whom it is perfectly natural to have gender-specific verbs, they don’t seem to be bothered by marriage-specific titles.

In Spain “doña” carries no connotation regarding married status and is the honorific applied universally before the name so no problem there.

When describing a female person without using a name it used to be “señorita” for unmarried and “señora” for married but today it is just a matter of age with señorita being used for a younger woman and señora for an older woman.

I don’t think that’s a hijack at all; I considered it when I asked the question but thought it easier just to ask the simple question than the more complicated one. I would think, though, that this isn’t a gender specific question, it’s one of marital status. Can you expand on how a culture that uses gender specific nouns, verbs, or adjectives, and has differing words for a married or single woman, would view the question differently?

Sorry, Sailor, I don’t know your gender, but is there a discussion among Spanish women about that? I’d forgotten about “dona” (you’re better than me at this–how’d you get the special “n”?), but isn’t there also a suggestion of respect that might not always be there in some circumstances? Is “dona” becoming a default reference to one’s “respectability,” if you will?

I am not sure I understand the question. Doña is just the default honorific for all women just like Mr. is the default honorific for all men in English. That’s all.

My ignorance–it apparently turns out that Spanish has had for a long time what English-speakers didn’t have. Is that your take?

Yes, in Spain “doña” is the honorific used for all women. Forms will usually have “Don/Doña” so they do not even specify the sex.

There’s no equivalent to “Ms.” in Swedish, but with the whole honorific+surname mode of address having been archaic for quite some time now, there’s also no use for one.

Yes there is: Fröken.
But like you said, no one uses those honorifics anymore, so I can’t blame you for forgetting about it :slight_smile:

At least one of us is confused regarding the meaning of “fröken”. The point of “Ms” is that it does not specify whether the woman in question is married or not, thus making the honorific the female equivalent of “Mr”. “Fröken”, on the other hand, is for unmarried women only, like the English “Miss”. In other words, the equivalences go

Mr - herr
Mrs - fru
Miss - fröken
Ms - (no such thing)

:smack: You are right, I’m the one who is confused.

In German (as used in Germany) the universal honorific for an adult woman nowadays is Frau, independent of married status. It used to be Frau for married/widowed/divorced women, Fräulein for unmarried women, but Fräulein has fallen into disuse in the last few decades and is only ever used to some elderly unmarried women who insist on it and occasionally jocularly/mock-formally by adults towards girls.

Speak for yourself (or Spain), if I’m called doña, I’d feel old.

At least in Puerto Rico, that word IS a honorific, yes, but applied to older women, women that would otherwise be called señora. Note that you can still be respectful with using “señora” or “señorita”. In my case, at least, if you don’t know me, use the later. :wink:

For me, don/doña are similar to the Southern US usage of sir and ma’am.

Example: I call a random woman whom I guess looks old enough to be my mom, “señora” (sra). I call any woman looking old enough to be my granny “doña” (age-gained honorific). I call my close friend’s mom “doña” (very respectful to my sort of in-laws and hosts). I call any strange young woman “señorita” (srta).

I don’t see doña as the default, and I was not taught of it that way. Sra/Srta. was what was drilled in my head.

Another distinction, relevant to Mexico (my only experience in Spanish). In restaurants, the waitresses are “señorita,” regardless of their age or marital status. The waiters are just “señor.” But that’s for “restaurants.” There are less classes of restaurants that aren’t restaurants, but smaller, cozier places, maybe someone’s garage. In that type of place, you’d go back to “señorita” and “señora,” and maybe use “señor” instead of “joven” (although these types of places are typically run by the family matron).

The use of “don”/“doña” I’d forgotten about. It’s not all that common, and it seems that (in Mexico) it’s used when you’re trying to be really respectful, or being ironic.

And there’s radical feminists who take offense at señora, radical feminists who take offense at señorita, and equalitarists who take offense at doña. What-ever is the appropiate response (or a more polite version if you happen to need their good graces).

FTR, the only places I’ve been called doña in person were by my dad when I misbehaved as a little child, and in Costa Rica.

All the same, in Japanese. No difference between men and women, married and unmarried. Of course if you did deep, you might find some nuances, but in regular talk everyone is XX san.

In general, Indian languages use
Shreemathi = Mrs.
Kumari = Ms.
but it sounds very formal, and is rarely used in regular conversation.

Most of that is not used in regular conversations, anyways.

Not every day I go out to a fancy restaurant in a Spanish speaking place.

Not every day, even when I live around Spanish speakers, will I meet someone with whom I have or should use those things…

And the same thing happens in English. It is not “everyday language” for me to say sir or ma’am. If I interact with just a few people (coworkers), I don’t use it. I’m not every day in a situation where people would/should call me ma’am/Mrs/Miss/Mz.

OTOH, due to my profession, I am regularly addressed with that title (at work).