Neighbor has Pit Bulls - Does Pepper Spray Work?

In My Humble Opinion
1

One of her dogs seems to be OK, she’s had her for a year. The new one, Red, though, I’m not so sure.

My neighbor walks her two pit bulls at 6:30 a.m. and we’ve crossed paths a couple of times. And there’s no doubt Red is a mean mofo. It’s his teeth-bared snarling that I find unsettling (and there’s the barking and the jumping).

I don’t know where she’s getting these dogs, she’s not buying them as puppies.

They’re fenced, she’s responsible, uses a leash, yadda yadda.

But my kids play with their friends out front frequently (and our backyard isn’t fenced at all).

Five little kids.

I’m betting Red thinks it looks like a delicious buffet just waiting till his owner has a lapse with the leash (or until he figures out how to scale his 4’ fence).

Pepper spray? Would it work?

2

I’ve only used pepper spray on other breeds when out running or cycling. If you get it in the eyes/nose, they go down. I don’t know about pits, you might want to have handy a short, heavy club. (lead filled shortened baseball bat, crowbar, metal pipe, etc.)

3

Thanks. :slight_smile:

The UPS guy happened to bring a package 10 mins after I posted this thread & he said pepper spray is really effective. I will be buying some today.

4

I’m pretty sure irritative aerosols don’t work as effectively on enraged people, never mind enraged animals (at least, I remember reading a report of an ex-soldier who went berserk and repeated pepper sprayings had no effect on him). If I had a neighbour with pitbulls and even had the suspicion that the animals were eyeing my kids, I wouldn’t trust pepper spray.

Buy a large knife or heavy implement.

5

Well, one neighbor has guns (he and his wife both know how to use them).

If I had to get close enough to a dog to use a knife or bat, then I’m betting the animal would be in the act of attacking and it would be difficult to stop the animal without injuring the child.

6

Have you thought about installing a fence? Pepper spray and the like will work if you are there with your kids when the dog comes running but will do nothing if you are standing in the kitchen while your kids play outside.

7

The dogs are right across the street from my kids’ best friends. The kids are 6, 5, 4 and 2 years old, so the mom and I are always supervising.

The lawns in this neighborhood are bigger than average, which is why none of us have fencing (our lot is 2/3 of an acre). From the dogs’ little compound to my friend’s front yard is probably 80’.

There are no sidewalks, but there’s also no traffic so the kids play in the street, which is the other reason we supervise.

That’s a horrific thought, that the dogs could get loose and run into our yard. Because I don’t supervise mine in their own yard anymore. Her dogs can’t see our yard from theirs, she’s down a hill and around a curve and there’s a house in between. But still. We have a ton of big sticks back there, for the fire pit. And a few bricks. ::shudder::

8

Or it’s windy and you spray the pepper spray and it gets redirected to your face.

9

Don’t supervise your dogs, or your kids?

The news is full of “kids taken from yards and bus stops and malls” stories.

My dog boards are full of “dog stolen from my back yard” stories.

You have to supervise nowadays. You just can’t leave an unsupervised dog in the yard and be completely safe – and humans are every bit as big a danger as pit bulls. The nasty loner teenage boy, the pack of stone-throwing brats, the kid with no morals and a new pellet gun, the mean old man next door who hates dogs and can toss meat adulterated with anti-freeze over a fence…you have to supervise, or you’re gambling.

As far as pit bulls go – dog aggression is completely different from human aggression. Of course one can mis-train a dog badly enough that the dog has both, but trust me, the dog with his superior senses is totally aware of the difference between Timmy and Lassie.

Well-bred and decently-raised pit bulls…hell, even most of Michael Vick’s trained fighting dogs – are exceptionally human-friendly. Even the dog-aggressive ones – and there are dog-aggressive pit bulls, it’s even normal and acceptable in the breed, like duck-aggressive labs and rat-aggressive terriers and rabbit-aggressive Great Danes – should be completely submissive toward humans.

One thing you can do that might help set your mind at ease regarding the safety of your kids – although not your dogs – is to meet the new pit bull in person without your dogs being present. If it’s just a dog-aggression issue, the pit might be reacting to your dog(s) every time and you might see completely different behavior when it’s just people present. Of course have your neighbor leash her dog before meeting you – safety first. But this is something that might break the ice and lead to better relations overall, as well as conveying the legitimate concerns that her dog’s barking and fierce face have caused in you.

If the dog continues to seem human-aggressive when no strange dogs are present, you have a real problem. True human aggression is an intolerable fault in a pit bull.

But it’s much more likely that you’re seeing dog aggression. DA is a problem for you too, as a dog owner. You can’t have your dogs loose in the front (unfenced) yard, because you can’t be sure her dogs are always contained safely – but then again, you can’t have your dogs loose (off leash) in the front yard anyway, because they will get hit by cars if it’s not fenced. So all you’re losing there is the ability to be sure that

Once you’ve established some rapport with the neighbor, it’s worthwhile to bring up DA (assuming that’s what you’ve observed) and ask about safety precautions. If her dog kills your dog, his life is most likely forfeit anyway, so you can approach it as working together to keep everyone safe. Fence and property inspections are a start; also emphasize to her that unattended pit bulls are, unfortunately, in even more danger outside than other breeds, because of their reputations and the general evil nature of people.

Unsupervised dogs are unsafe dogs, yours and hers.
.

10

Where did I ever say I had a dog?

She has two pit bulls, and when I’ve been out walking by myself, at 6:30 in the a.m., my neighbor has also been out with her dogs. And one of her dogs barks at me a LOT. And snarls and pulls against the leash.

Thanks for the gist of your advice, though; it sounds like I should talk to her about my concerns. And keep the pepper spray handy. She’s very responsible, her dogs are always leashed or else in their fenced-in area, or in the house. And she doesn’t leave them outside for long periods of time or anything.

11

Oh, I see where I used “mine” – I meant, my children. They’re in kindergarten and our neighborhood (about 60 homes) is very quiet and somewhat isolated.

12

Sure, it’ll work. After I spray you in the face you’ll be less likely to post such a moronic question.

We’ve been over this time and again. Pit bulls are no more aggressive (or genetically different) from other breeds and there are no reputable studies that suggest otherwise.

13

"Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author’s observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Clifton’s opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, “Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all.”

14

Whoopie. The Clifton study.

“Say, ma’am, what kind of dog was it that bit you?”

“It was a pit bull, for sure.”

What a great study that was.

15

You know what, it’s way too pretty a day for me to sit here and bicker about this study versus that one. It’s irrelevant anyway - I’m not asking about a theoretical dog, I’m talking about one that snarls and leaps towards me, straining against the leash, when I’ve done nothing to provoke misbehavior.

I’m also not asking for legislation. I’m asking for anecdotal experiences that are relevant to keeping my specific children safe.

You wanna bicker, fine. Have it.

16

Your study, like all studies attempting to catergorize dog attacks by breed, is flawed…

Bolding mine. It also allows me to bring up my own dog as she directly relates to this. According to the shelter I adopted her from, my dog is a pit bull/boxer/shepherd mix. If, god forbid, my dog were to attack someone, what breed would she be identified as? What part of her DNA would have been most responsible for the bite?

17

The dog is a year old, it will snarl and leap at its own shadow. Its what dogs that age do.

18

If the pit bull is snarling and snapping at you specifically (and you aren’t standing in front of a poodle or something), something is very wrong. Genuine human aggression in pit bulls is intolerable.

Are you sure he’s a pit bull? People are famously poor at identifying them. How big is he (estimated weight)? Are you sure he’s aggressive and not just hyper to come love on you? I’ve seen people who couldn’t tell the difference, although I’m not saying you are.

Talk to her and ask her why he’s like that – maybe she has something enlightening to say on the subject. I’d shy away from prejudicing the reply and just ask “why does your dog act that way when he sees me?” and see if she thinks you mean happy or hostile.

My general impression, not having seen the situation, is that an actually human-aggressive pit bull of any size at all should be evaluated by a professional dog trainer and thoroughly re-socialized or put down, and I say that as a pit bull lover and bleeding-heart animal type.

Maybe by talking with the neighbor you can figure out if this is genuine human aggression and then urge her to get him evaluated “to improve the dog’s quality of life”?

It’s tricky, because you don’t want to alienate her if you can avoid it.

Please bear in mind that if she’s a real responsible pit bull owner, she’s painfully aware of her dog’s bad habits and vulnerabilities, but again, if she’s really responsible, she’ll want to change true human aggression, or pre-empt it by responsibly having an unfixable dangerous dog put down gently by a vet instead of savagely by police .38s.

I feel sorry for anyone who truly loves a truly human-aggressive dog, especially if the dog is one of the breeds with a bad reputation. Under certain circumstances you can theoretically keep such a dog , but it requires absolute dedication, and I don’t think it’s a good idea even then, much less think this person is exercising total control.

19

It’s also exceedingly rare.

Dogbitelaw is a lawsuit-generating website, not a source of information. Bear in mind that the Center for Disease Control is on record as stating that no study can be accurately compiled about lilkelihood of bites by breed – for a variety of reasons, including pervasive media bias, poor or nonexistent breed identification, and extremely irregular incident reporting. Scientists have said it’s not scientific to say any such study is accurate – and that includes “studies” by the lawsuit-eyed folks at dogbitelaw.

Real dog experts universally agree that the United States was full of pit bulls for centuries before anyone thought they were a threat to children; they were nicknamed “the nanny dogs” because they were safer around children than other breeds (able to shrug off poking, prodding and tail-pulling).

Pit bulls have been ruthlessly (in the very real sense of the word) selected to be submissive toward humans, for the grisly but real reason that handlers wanted to be able to reach into a pit bull fighting pit and separate dogs without having panicky, exhausted, aroused dogs redirect and bite their handlers. Other breeds of dogs were selected (at least before the AKC made appearance the only criterion) to be human-compatible, but not under the stresses and not as thoroughly as pit bulls.

That’s why a human-aggressive pit bull is so rare and why one is not tolerated: generations of effort have all but weeded it out of their genetics, and only morons and criminals would try to train it back into them.

20

Never mind.