This article claims that an “ultra pure” form of heroin can kill users “before they even remove the syringe from their veins.”
Can a drug really kill that quickly? I always thought instant-acting drugs were a myth perpetrated by TV and movies, where pacing requirements often mean a drugged character has to be affected faster than he would in reality. I mean, blood only circulates so fast, right?
I work as a Paramedic. Generally what happens is someone who overdoses on heroin is found in an unconscious state breathing at about 4 times a minute. Eventually this is going to be fatal if not treated due to hypoxia. Strong heroin or heroin mixed with other sedative type drugs can induce an altered state of not being able to help your self rather quickly, think under 2 minutes, especially if done I.V. and not snorted.
I read that article.
I’m a jaded bastard, but I thought - nah, maybe true in one or two cases, but even if it is - it won’t last.
Simply because if the people selling the drugs kill their customers that quickly, it won’t last. It’s just bad business.
IV-drug users tend to have less than perfect veins, and it can take a minute (or two+) to get whole amount of fluidized drug from syringe into their arm/system. If drug is a LOT more concentrated than they expect or are accustomed to, they can be unconscious long before the needle is pulled from their arm. Unconsciousness, if not death itself, is possible in seconds in many cases (increasingly so when ultra-pure stuff is loosed on the addicts). It only takes a few (relatively speaking) seconds for blood to go from arm vein to the brain, then ‘poof’ goes the consciousness and the person drops (and dies if enough to cancel nerve impulses, etc).
Folks doing the snorting or other methods can still OD pretty quick if massive amounts (%-wise) are put into the body anywhere. Tiny amounts of ultra-pure drug affects nervous systems as much or more as massive amounts of low-grade ‘shit’, as it were. Arrythmias or other things can also kill even when dose is not enough to automatically kill 'em instantly, too (Len Bias??)
A side note: I had a dog of mine euthanized long ago (old, old, old age). Method was by massive dose of tranquilizer - dog was gone in less than 5 seconds and I know as fact as I held her as it occurred. No doubt of the quickness of death in this case (if it helps illustrate the quickness). People are physiologically much the same as far as effects go.
Yeah, I’ve held a dog as it’s been euthanized too. It’s damn quick. Still, if you’re a businessperson - there’s no point in killing your customers. If it’s true, it won’t last.
Having watched my share of Intervention, IV drug users (heroin users more specifically) don’t seem to pull out the needle immediatelly.
The process is more like:
-Inject
-Wait for effects
-Enjoy a few seconds of the beginning of said effects
-Remove needle and start packing up the rest of your supplies
-Enjoy rest of effects.
EDIT: So along those lines, if someone were to use something stronger than they were expecting or used to, the third step could last a bit longer and perhaps simply keep lasting.
Opiates like Heroin don’t have a ceiling or max dose. The body creates a “tolerance” for the drug. You give someone who is “tolerant” for Opiates 100mg of Oxycodone, they might not feel the effects, while if you give someone who is Opiate native 100mgs of Oxycodone, they will pretty quickly go into respiratory depression (they pretty much stop breathing).
I used Oxycodone as an example, but all opiates are pretty much the same in effects (if not potency). So, you give an heroin addict a dose stronger then he expects, he will OD pretty quickly, and there isn’t much you can do unless you get them to an ER so they can administer an Opioid Antagonist pretty quickly.
You’d be a fool as a drug dealer to sell lethally pure heroin. Cut it and voila, twice as much heroin!
Thanks for the answers. Fortunately (?) GameHat is right about the business end of such a drug.
Not sure the OP has been answered. Something I am curious about too.
Just how fast can an injected drug affect a person? I have read that some venomous animals can kill you in a minute or two but may be bogus for all I know.
Can you knock someone out with a tranquilizer dart (of some sort) ala the movies in 2 seconds before they can raise the alarm? (I suspect not)
In short, how fast can the fastest acting substances do their thing?
IV administered anesthesia works really damn fast…I see no reason why a large dose of an opioid wouldn’t off you quickly.
Point taken, but…
Hirka T’Bawa noted that bodily responses to drugs vary widely. It’s pretty easy for me to imagine a snafu where overly potent heroin is sold to some unsuspecting shmoe. I doubt whether dealers have the sort of fail-safe procedures that pharmacists have (or so I imagine).
Anecdotal but I took a friend to the dentist for some surgery and later he told me that they put the gas mask on him and had him count backwards from 100. His memory of it was that he made it to 92.
So, thinking more on it now, I guess they can be pretty fast. But can they be near instantaneous?
I think it can be pretty damn quick, depending on the drug. I’ve had general anesthesia a few times, and during my first surgery they asked me to count backwards from 10, and I almost made it to 7. The next time I think they used a different drug or dose, because they asked me to count starting from 1, and I made it to 14.
So if they were only trying to put me under and not kill me and it was done in 3 seconds, I imagine a massive overdose might be quicker.
In actual cases I’ve observed, recreational IV drug users usually do it slowly. They’re trying to avoid a shock from the drugs that may render them unconcious, or cause them to fall and hit their head, rendering them unconcious. If that happens, they don’t get to enjoy the rush. If the stuff is good, they won’t complete the injection right away, leaving time for them to die from an overdose. This all sounds like scare tactics. Is there a documented case of the pure heroin scenario killing that quickly? Overdoses do happen though, they probably just take longer than a couple of seconds.
Well, assuming we’re talking about a clean dose without any toxic additives, then no. Opiate intoxication suppresses the respiratory drive, you get so stoned you forget to breathe. Even your brain stem, which has been on breathing autopilot since long before we were primates forgets to breathe. Even a massive dose, dumped into a large vein shouldn’t kill you faster than it takes to drown.
Losing consciousness before you get the needle out, and then smothering because you forgot to breathe is entirely plausible.
We do see blood pressure drops with some opiates in some patients, but I’m not sure if heroin is known for that. If it is that could be a contributing factor, but still not the main one.