A Mechanic Stole My Vehicle here in Victorville CA. I didn’t give him any money because he didn’t install a working water pump in my vehicle. I told him I was going to send a tow truck to pick up my vehicle after he said he installed the second water pump and that it was leaking. I wanted to have my vehicle towed to another more qualified mechanic, someone who could put a working water pump that didn’t leak in my van after 3days. It should have been a 4 hr job. When he found that I wasn’t going to go there and pay him for not doing his job right he decided to steal my vehcile. The mechanic agreed that I could send a tow truck there but after the tow truck got there he wouldn’t let the tow truck driver tow my vehicle. Its been 5 days now. I called the police and I was told I’d have to take it to small claims. I don’t think that would work and I’d have to pay a stranger to serve him. I contacted the BBB and Consumer Affairs and Consumer Affairs claims they are going to investigate this, but I have to wait a few days before they contact me. Is there anything else I can do? I have no access to my vehicle and if I lose my place to stay, I could be out on the street in the desert. Thanks
Welcome to the board, 1993 Dodge Ram, and good luck with your problem. I think you’ll get more answers in the In My Humble Opinion form, so I’ve moved your post there.
Wow, I am really surprised at the police response. I would think that if you showed up in person with the tow truck and the title in hand, and called the police, he would have to release the vehicle. I would think the mechanic is the one who needs to take it small claims court, not you. Wow.
He cannot just arbitrarily seize your car, can he? Doesn’t he have to file a lien or something? Are their any lawyers on board that can comment on this?
If the police say it is a small claims matter (in either direction), can’t you just call the tow truck after the mechanics hours, or push your car down the road and around a corner or something and then call the tow truck if they won’t take it from the mechanic’s lot ? This is of course if the police won’t call it stealing it from the mechanic…
Laws vary somewhat from state to state, but in general if you gave authorization to have the work done (especially signed authorization), the shop has the right the hold the vehicle until you pay. If there is a problem with the work, there is recourse, but said recourse is usually not for you to unilaterally decide to renege on payment.
If this is a case where the shop is (legally) refusing to release the vehicle, then the shop has not stolen your vehicle. I can see why you might feel that way about it, but to state it that way seriously undermines your credibility and raises questions about the accuracy of all your statements. This is not helped by the rather cryptic story related in the OP, with useless and immaterial stuff like “It should have been a 4 hr job” but lacking pertinent info about the exact history of this repair (e.g., when was first pump installed? what was the problem with it? when did that problem appear? when was second pump installed? etc.) and what the mechanic has said he will or will not do (e.g. is he willing to install a third pump, but you’re not willing to let him? has he told you to come and pick it up and pay for it even though there’s a problem?). Frankly, with California’s reputation for having the most consumer friendly/shop unfriendly auto repair agency in the country (BAR), I’m wondering how a shop could do you harm such as you seem to perceive has been done.
If you care to provide a concise but complete accounting of this situation, minus the drama, we may be able to help you navigate the situation.
Is this a chain of shops, independent, or a guy working out of his house (i.e. shadetree mechanic?). I would definitely contact the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) and let them know your issue with the mechanic in addition to the BBB and Department of Consumer Affairs. As others have already said, starting your story with “they stole my car!” isn’t going to garner you any favor with the various folks to whom you’ve reported the incident. As far as the mechanic is concerned, he provided parts and labor, and you are refusing to pay. What’s not clear is exactly what happened. Am I to understand that you had two new water pumps fail on your van in less than a week, the first of which failed in 3 days and the second failed while still at the shop? There has to be more details we haven’t heard. Presumably you paid for the first water pump such that you had the car the three days for it to fail, and then took it back for what should have been a free fix, perhaps less the cost of the pump, but I find it hard to believe the mechanic wants to charge you for a non-functional pump that is failing while still at his shop. What details are we missing here?
Paging Rick to GQ
IANA mechanic per se but I work in a repair business.
The police will not intervene because the business owner has the right to hold the vehicle pending payment. The police forcing him to release the vehicle would set a precedent that would turn every customer service challenge into a police matter and probably get the department sued for the loss of revenues on those jobs.
Mechanics leins do not require special filings, once I start work on a project (computers in my case) I now have a financial interest in the job, if you do not want to pay, I do not have to give it back to you absent a court order.
Once you have authorized repair work and the work is done, generally the obligation on the part of the repair person is to solve the problem. If the problem is determined to be larger, require more parts, etc that initially anticipated they have to contact you for permission to exceed the original estimate. If you do not want to pay for the extra time, effort, etc, you can stop the job, but you still have to pay for what WAS done.
You do not OTOH get to just waltz in and take your stuff/truck/tv/whatever without paying because you do not feel they can complete the job within your desired time frame.
No pay, no vehicle, perfectly legal and police trying to intervene would turn into a legal bloodbath that the police would lose.
I do not know if there are any differences with cars, I know mechanics leins on homes do have to be filed but thats because you can’t just throw people out of their house without some serious due process.
They are not seizing your car per se, simply holding pending payment. If you do not pay for a set period of time say 90 days he can most likely sell your car to recover his outstanding bill.
I didn't tell him I'd pay him for not installing a working water pump. I brought him a new water pump, in an unopened box, on 9/21/2010. He called and told me that the water pump was defective. It was leaking. I also called returns and they told me that the mechanic had called them and reported the damaged water pump. I had to go and pick the water pump up and when I looked at it I couldn't believe how damaged it was. There was hardly any seal left on it. I didn't think, it was defective and I think it was damaged by the mechanic, because if he saw what I saw he never should have put it in. I went back 9/22/2010 and saw my van in the parking lot unattended with a big black metal thing under the hood. It wasn't mine. I don't know what it was. I found him inside the auto shop and gave him a suggestion of where there might be higher quality pumps. He said he already had a water pump but he hadn't installed it yet and raised the price of the repairs from $386.00 to over $500.00, no exact figure. I told him I wouldn't be able to pay him for a working water pump at that price in Septemtember, maybe 10/1/2010 and I couldn't afford to pay him anymore. I didn't pay him anything, because there was no working water pump in my van. 9/23/2010, the mechanic called me before abt 8:am and said he put the water pump in but it was leaking. I told him I was going to have a tow truck pick up my van and have it towed to a qualified mechanic. I never saw the work he says he did. He said on the phone, no problem. I called Geico late afternoon 9/23/2010 and they sent a tow truck driver to pick up my van at the auto repair shop, in Victorville, CA. The tow truck driver called me and said the mechanic wouldn't release the vehicle and that he thought he was going to pull some shit. Then the mechanic called me and said that the tow truck was there but he was not going to release my van. 9/24/2010 about 8:am, the mechanic called me and said my van was ready to pick up and it could be driven without a water pump or he could put a leaking water pump in it and I'd have to pay him in person, no other payment arrangements. I could not mail any payments. I told him I couldn't go there and pay him for not repairing my van. I haven't talked to him since and I really do think he is either going to keep my van which to me is the same thing as stealing when he has it locked up and I don't have access to it. I have thought about going there and quickly getting into my van inside the auto shop and try to back it out where it could be towed. I am afraid to do that, because I'm not sure what my rights are. I don't think doing anything legally is going to help me, just him. I think the mechanic has already figured everything out and wouldn't have done this if he didn't think it was to his advantage. I think all he is doing is taking advantage of me and that he is not qualified to put a working water pump in my van. I have been to several mechanics and had working water pumps put in, no problem and if one didn't work, they simply sent it back and put a working one in. They didn't charge me, because they were having problems putting a working water pump in. They all charged me less than $300.00 to put a working water pump in. Consumer affairs is investigating this and they told me they are going to bat for me but meanwhile I have to wait, for how long, I don't know. I am seeking a lawyer and I don't think small claims is the answer because I have to pay someone and watch someone serve papers to the mechanic and even if I won it doesn't mean he will release my van. I need to leave victorville and might have to buy another vehicle, because I have no transportation. I'm sorry if this seems dramatic. It's much more serious than that.So, once you do get your van back, your plan is to take it to a ‘qualified mechanic’ and have him install a water pump that you provide?
I think you need to reflect on what brought you to this point in the first place. Understand this: your parts, your risk.
And if you can’t afford to pay the guy who currently has your van, how do you plan on paying the ‘qualified mechanic’?
Okay, first problem. I don’t know why people think it’s a good idea to provide their own parts, but in dealing with a good shop it isn’t. Let the shop provide the whole repair, and the shop can warranty the whole repair.
Just one reason it’s not a good idea for the customer to provide the parts. If there’s a problem (defect, wrong part, etc.) it’s then the customer’s responsibility to rectify it.
This isn’t making sense. The seal is not visible unless the pump is essentially disassembled. (And if you’re using “seal” to mean “gasket,” it’s a non-issue – the gasket is cheap and readily replaced.)
And how are you differentiating between defective and damaged by the mechanic? While I guess anything’s possible, it’s pretty darn hard to screw up a water pump. I don’t think I’ve seen that happen in 35 years in the field. Either this is one hell of an inept mechanic or there’s something that’s being misunderstood here.
Again not making sense. Sounds like you’re saying you chose a lower quality pump to begin with. Also sounds like either this “mechanic” is a total flub – in which case I’m sorry to say you should never have done business with him in the first place – OR you have a very poor idea of how to deal with a shop – by which I mean any decent professional knows more than laymen do about where and how to get parts.
The difference in price perhaps being that now HE is providing the part?
Put WHICH water pump in? The new one he provided? The new one you provided? Your old one?
Now it’s making even less sense. You just said he put a pump in and it’s leaking, now you say it doesn’t have a pump on it?
Sounds to me like you owe him for attempting to repair it with the part you provided.
I’m sorry, but this whole post is way past concise, confusing as hell, and half irrelevant. Let’s see if I can get the essence here:
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He installed the pump you provided and it leaked.
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He has offered to do the repair with a pump he provides, but you declined.
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Your vehicle now is disassembled, and he insists you pay for his efforts so far before taking the vehicle.
If any of the above three items is incorrect, please advise. Use those three items as a guide to being concise.
I’m here.
Gary T covered most of it. 1993 Dodge Ram I am a service manager at a new car dealer in California, so I know a bit of the laws involved.
If you supply parts, even if they are bad, the repair facility is entitled to be paid for the labor they put in installing said bad part. It is not their fault that you supplied a bad part.*
Like Gary T I am having a hard time following the story. so if you could clarify it would be helpful.
Your best course of action is to talk to the local office of the BAR (California State Bureau of Automotive Repair) California has some of the strongest most consumer friendly auto repair laws in the nation. If the shop did not follow the rules (or is unlicensed) they will bring this to a quick end.
If however they did everything right, you will have to pay something.
*This is often a big problem when the customer wants to bring in a used part from a junk yard. The replacement used part is many times almost as fucked up as the part that is to be replaced.
to the op, the quoted line here is the key to your problem. You are not going to like hearing this, but You are legally and morally in the wrong.
You asked him to do work which failed because your provided part was bad. If he was willing to redo it with a part he supplied, for just the difference in the part cost, he was being a good guy.
I seriously doubt you will get findings in your favor from BAR or small claims if for no other reason that you are trying to blame him for the failure of a part you provided. He has pretty much zero legal responsibility to do anything for you as far as not charging you at least for the labor on the initial install.
Also if it turns out that there is a greater problem for example did overheating cause some part of the mounting point to warp creating difficulty getting a good seal. Under such circumstances, it’s not the mechanics fault and the leakage could be from a very small gap, like a couple hundredths of an inch that would be difficult to discern on visual inspection.
I know that you don’t want to name the mechanic, but if and when you need to go somewhere else PM me, I have lived in the area my whole life and may be able to offer some good alternatives.
Maybe or maybe not, but so far it doesn’t sound good for you, OP. However, the cops were completely right. It is a civil matter not a car theft.
I suggest you consult a lawyer.
At this point he might as well let the guy fix it, he will end up paying him anyway. If he tried to play this game with me, I would have charged him too.
Don’t do it. This can very easily fall into “theft of services” which is a criminal act.
courtesey of CA Penal Code
484. (a) Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry,
lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.
Bolding mine.
Dodging paying for a service this way can be considered theft and can end up providing you with living quarters in county lockup.
It now occurs to me that this:
…I couldn’t believe how damaged it was. There was hardly any seal left on it. I didn’t think, it was defective and I think it was damaged by the mechanic, because if he saw what I saw he never should have put it in.
probably means the water pump that the OP supplied had been removed after it was installed and found to leak, and the OP saw the (predictably) torn gasket, didn’t realize that gaskets of that type don’t usually survive removal, mistakenly assumed it looked like that before installation, and went on to misinterpret and incorrectly assume further from there.
I don’t think the OP brought his car to a bad mechanic, that would warrant recommending a good mechanic, except that the good mechanic you recommend will probably refuse to do the work with a customer-provided part.
In Louisiana, every mechanic’s work authorization form has the same language at the bottom that details the mechanic’s lien. When you sign the work authorization, you agree to get the work done, and you agree to the lien. If you don’t pay for the work, the mechanic takes the paperwork and the license plate to the state DMV, files some more paperwork and get issued a title to the car, which he can then sell to recover his costs.