"Great Wall" myth originated with Ripley's

Arthur Waldron traced the origin the “Great Wall can be seen from the moon” myth in the book “Great Wall of China.” It was popularized by a 1932 Ripley’s Believe it or Not column (republished many times).

Would you like us to know which one of Cecil’s columns you are talking about first, or shall we guess? Maybe it’s this one?

And is this the book you are quoting?

Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, kauffner, we’re glad to have you with us. What Musicat is trying to say is that, when one starts a thread, it’s helpful to other readers to provide a link to the column in question. As you might see from our Archives, there are LOTS of old columns, so providing the link saves search time and helps keep responses on the same page.

No biggie, you’ll know for next time, and, as I say, welcome.

It looks like the myth originated purely from speculation way before there was any way to verify it, that is, before artificial satellites and men in space. Ripley may have taken the idea and run with it. Subtlety was not his strong point.

http://www.great-wall-china.cn/great-wall-faq/great-wall-of-china-from-space.html

I have been unable to find the exact Ripley cartoon, but it must be out there. Might be the 10,001th link in the google search, but it’s not at the top.

And Dex, if you look in our SDMB archives, you will see I have repeatedly complained that we need a better way for newbies to start a thread like this, something with a link from the column already embedded. Extremely easy to code, and would avoid us having to repeatedly suggest it in threads like these. The need hasn’t decreased over the years.

Here is a link to the Ripley’s column on the Great Wall: http://www.newscientist.com/blog/space/uploaded_images/great-wall-ripleys-775778.jpg

I notice a whole list of other popular myths about China presented here as fact; This was one influential column. It’s dated March 1932.

I was a big fan of Ripley in the 70s when I was pretty young and I had several of his books - and was very disappointed to find out how much of his facts were fabricated or stretched.

You found it! What a period piece that is.

I noticed that it says, “…the only one that would be visible to the human eye from the moon.” So while Ripley was speculating, he didn’t present it as proven fact.

Idle speculation.
In another thread, someone mentioned that the wall is hard to see as it’s built from local materials and blends in with the ground.

I wonder if it were built from black brick on light ground, would that be enough to be seen from orbit?

No. The only true bit of largeness about the Great Wall is that it is very long. But no individual piece of it is all that big. Lots of other human constructions, like the pyramids, are wider and higher and more massive.

It’s the length that trips people up. They hear 1500 miles or whatever amazing number and think, whoa, that’s huge. But length doesn’t matter if the materials are small. You have two meters of DNA in every cell but it’s still invisible to the naked eye. A piece of string is invisible until you’re right next to it, no matter how long it is. Think of the Great Wall as a piece of string and you see immediately that the whole seeing it from a distance trope fails. Maybe it if shot out lasers, but that wasn’t likely in 1932.

What, you don’t hear the phrase “heathen chinee” in everyday use? :wink:

I just read that as meaning “if only anyone were on the moon to see it.” It still presents the claim as factual.

Me too. Tons of bullshit came from that man.

Think of a California freeway. Some are wider than the Great Wall and although not painted to stand out, are often bordered by landscaping which provides contrast. Freeways should make the Great Wall ashamed and insignificant.

Only in my family. :slight_smile:

Yes, he presents it as factual, but Musicat’s point is that it is not presented as proven. In other words, Ripley’s claim is based upon something like the length of the wall combined with the distance gives an angular …erm, term slips my mind… that would be resolvable/visible. But his argument neglects the width of the wall, and the contrast with surrounding ground. His claim is based upon an argument, not on a demonstration/observation.

Ripley may have popularized it, but it couldn’t have originated with him. A cursory search on books.google.com finds that Henry Norman’s 1895 book, The Peoples and Politics of the Far East included the following: “Besides its age it enjoys the reputation of being the only work of human hands on the globe visible from the moon.” There are some additional examples also dated before the column.

There are even earlier references. In 1754, William Stuckley wrote: “the Chinese wall, which makes a considerable figure upon the terrestrial globe, and may be discerned at the moon.” --The Family Memoirs of the Rev. William Stukeley (1887) Vol. 3, p. 142. (1754)

I love the Dope!

And as for a million men being buried in the Great Wall… yeesh.

Yes, and “built in 15 years”? Ripley’s drawing shows the Badaling section, which wasn’t finished until the 17th century.

The “Martian canal” issue was prominent in the late 19th century, so the idea arose that long thin objects were visible from space. This may be what led people at that time to speculate about the Great Wall and what structures could be seen from the moon.

I’m now curious about the question “Can a Chinaman whistle?” which the comic in question promises to answer “next Sunday”.

I work with several people of Chinese ancestry. To my knowledge I’ve never heard any of them whistle. Perhaps when the holidays are over I will ask them if they can … .

If all 1.4 billion Chinese jumped up at the same time… That would be really cool.

I think it was Lenny Bruce who pointed out that the Ripley’s column really lost its appeal when newspaper readers got squeamish about human deformities. So take heart: It didn’t just start sucking in the 1970s.