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Old 04-05-2001, 10:37 PM
jab1 jab1 is offline
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Wherever I go, there I am
Posts: 4,839
It should not be televised. If it is, I will not watch.

And isn't it state-assisted suicide if the subject asks for it? Why grant him his request and not those who are terminally ill and in great pain? What's the difference?

Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion. --Harlan Ellison

Graduate, 1983, of the Springfield Heights Institute of Technology.
Old 04-06-2001, 10:12 AM
minty green minty green is offline
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,834
Originally posted by jab1
What's the difference?
168 bodies and a capital murder conviction.
Old 04-08-2001, 03:58 PM
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Gallatin, TN
Posts: 21,676
I don't think I'd watch, simply because there'd be no point to it. I wouldn't derive any personal satisfaction from SEEING his death. Knowing that he was dead would be enough.

I DO think that the death penalty IS a deterent because, so far, no one who has been executed has ever come back and killed someone. I also think that its a very humane punishment. I can't think of anything crueler psychologically than to lock a person up for the rest of his/her life in a small space, with limited opportunities for contact with the outside world. Sort of like what they do to calves to make veal, isn't it?

I also don't think that McVeigh's execution is going to turn him into a martyr for the simple fact that most of the wacko's out there realize that he screwed up big time. Had he picked a building that was unoccupied, he might have picked up more support. He didn't. He picked a building filled with people, most especially, babies. Had he blown up an unoccupied IRS building on the weekend, he might have gotten some support.

So long as McVeigh is alive, there is a chance (however remote), that he could escape. If he gets out, he WILL kill someone. Possibly LOTS of people. By executing him, you remove that possibility and the possibility that he might kill someone WHILE IN PRISON. I say kill him and broadcast it if you want. It won't stop anyone else from killing people, but it WILL stop McVeigh, and to my mind, its a more humane punishment than spending the next 40 years in a box.
Old 04-30-2001, 02:35 AM
Marvel Marvel is offline
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 490
Does anyone remember "Faces of Death?"

It was a series of videos that came out in the mid-1980s (one of my classmates brought volume five into Health class during our "Death and Dying" section as a joke) featuring a series of live and still images of people who have *just* died one way or another. Don't ask me how the FoD creators get their hands on this sh*t in the first place. Due to the underground popularity of the series, I seriously doubt that any televised execution would be a learning tool but rather some people's idea of entertainment.

As for the death penalty detering crime due to the "This can happen to you" factor, isn't that expecting an AWFUL lot of rational thought from someone who would even concider committing an irrational act? And how many criminals, whatever the crime, really believe they're going to get caught?!?!

Lastly, I agree with everyone who said McVeigh should be made to live when he wants to die. And I'm afraid he wants this televised so he can make one last grand statement at some point to help set himself up as a martyr [sp?] or some such thing. Heck, after Jeffery Dahmer [sp?] was killed, I saw T-shirts praising him in the same store that sold Charles Manson shirts.

I really see no good coming from this.

When in panic or in doubt/
Run in circles, scream and shout!
- Tom Servo
Old 04-30-2001, 09:57 AM
vanilla vanilla is offline
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,820
Would you want to watch his victims die?
I don't see how watching anyone die would be of any constructive interest at all.
Of course, it'll be all over the news that day, causing some women to call in complaining of their sopa operas being missed.
Old 04-30-2001, 10:08 AM
Albert Rose Albert Rose is offline
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sanford, Florida
Posts: 1,591
I wouldn't watch, nor would I want it televised. I would place extra weight on the opinions of those who have lost loved ones in the explosion -- what do they want? That seems to me to be the most important issue here, along with "Don't let it happen again."

I understand the idea of "humane punishment." We don't want to encourage our culture to sink so low as to derive entertainment value from martyrdom, even if our culture is pretty close to that level already. We've got to stop giving this guy publicity.

Should he die? I think so. Either that, or rot unhappily in a cell.
Old 04-30-2001, 10:14 AM
vanilla vanilla is offline
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,820
I would rather die than live the rest of my life in jail.
It seems he really wants publicity, and apparently, he's going to get it.
Old 04-30-2001, 11:39 PM
Philosophocles Philosophocles is offline
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 763
I wouldn't watch, but I would predict that a lot of people would watch and tell people that that didn't watch, or that they didn't really intend to watch but did. All these sensationalistic TV shows get people hooked, especially those Fox shows, "World's Most Insane Police Chases", "Who Wants to Admit They're a Whore?"...maybe they could add in a twist and have home viewers vote on the manner of death..."27% are for crucifixion, 12% want his innards chewed out by pit bulls, etc." or have several death row inmates play a "Weakest Link" type game...all the losers get fried, the winner gets married to Darva Conger.

Personally, I'm opposed to the death penalty, but hey, death makes great theater...just look at the ancient Romans and their spectacles where lots of people would die and the crowd would go bonkers, high-fiving each other with every decapitation. And it's also a (sad but true) fact that at some lynchings in America's Deep South, vendors would set up stands to sell food and drink to the rowdy crowds.

When evil is the answer to evil, evil always wins...that's how Tim McVeigh dug himself into a prison of hate, because he believed that an "eye for an eye" was true justice, and he responded to a perceived evil with a monstrous act of evil. Jesus said that an eye for an eye is not the way to go and called us to a higher moral standard, and Martin Luther King noted that the problem with an eye for an eye is that everyone becomes blind. But the old "eye for an eye equals justice" habit is a tough one to break, and there are many ways to rationalize evil as the answer to evil. Maybe Jesus and MLK were just a bit too naive--after all, they were killed for what they believed.
Old 05-02-2001, 11:31 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is online now
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NH
Posts: 21,959
I wouldn't watch. I'm for the death penalty in cases like this, but I don't need to see it. I don't think we need to blur the lines between justice and entertainment, and a big party of me worries that someone might take the idea of televised executions as being an incentive to commit crimes. There are people out there who would do anything for their 15 minutes of fame, including die on TV for it.
Old 05-02-2001, 06:53 PM
Persephone Persephone is offline
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Flint, MI
Posts: 7,001
Wow. Didn't know this one had been resurrected.

A couple of months of reflection have made me realize that watching his execution would not be good. Not for me, anyway.

I sometimes find myself wishing they'd do it some other way than lethal injection, though. Seems more like euthanasia than execution, in this case.

Didn't someone facing the death penalty opt for hanging, not all that long ago?
Old 05-03-2001, 07:22 PM
sturmhauke sturmhauke is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Capitol Wasteland
Posts: 5,531
I wouldn't go out of my way to watch, but if I was flipping around and caught it I might watch out of morbid curiosity. I am for the death penalty, with reservations. I know that sometimes innocent people have been given the death sentence, and that it is not applied fairly. But I feel that it is appropriate for people like McVeigh, who commit heinous crimes without remorse. I don't agree with the deterrence argument, except that an executed criminal will not be around to commit more crimes. However, it is a horrible thing to take a human life, even the life of a murderer. I feel no joy in thinking about McVeigh's death sentence.


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