Should the government grant money or tax credits to parents who wish to send their children to private school or homeschool them?
Much as with food stamps, I support such vouchers for private schools or homeschooling who have reasonable curriculums especially for inner city kids whose local public schools are in extremely bad condition. Of course this should not be the only approach to improving education in the United States.
To note I go to a public school.
Yes.
Now how long until this thread devolves into a rich bashing thread? I’ll say 17 posts.
No, it would just result in a lot of government money getting sucked up by scam artists creating useless “instant schools” to suck up the voucher money, a lot of money going to schools that amount to Christan indoctrination centers, and existing private schools to raise their fees by the amount of the voucher. It’s just another right wing scheme to destroy the Evil Public Schools, divert government money to the corrupt, and swell their ranks by forcing students into religious & political indoctrination centers.
What do you think vouchers will accomplish?
I vote no unless and until public schooling is no longer available.
Here’s my thought - public education is just that, education by and for the public. All children have the right to attend, and in return, the public at large … via taxes … pays the bills.
If a family decides that a private education would work best for them, they have the right to send their kids to a private school. They do not, however, have the right to “opt out” of paying for the public system. All taxpayers pay into the public school system, whether or not they have schoolchildren - heck, whether or not they have children at all. It’s part of what we pay as a society to educate our youngsters, and we all share in that cost. It’s just the same as citizens not having the right to “opt out” of paying for military expenditures, or greenhouse gas studies, or any other taxpayer-funded exercise. It’s part of our social contract here in America. You pays your taxes, and if you don’t like how the money is spent, you makes your feelings known at the ballot box. And the majority vote rules.
So, families have the right to choose a private school. But in my opinion, they do not have the right to pull funds out of the public system to pay for that choice.
Are there a lot of bad public schools? Certainly. Do we have a long way to go as a society to improve our educational system? Of course. Are vouchers the answer? No way - not in my view, anyway.
Just for reference, both of my kids went to private (Catholic) schools all the way from elementary to high school. We found some scholarship money to pay for some of it. We got a little break on our Iowa income tax (for some school expenses). We found a way to pay for the rest. All the while, I never begrudged the tax money I sent to the public education system. After all, our children are going to have to work/live/get along with products of the public school system, too. There’s a reason all citizens should financially support public education. Letting some people “opt out” is a step onto a dangerous slope.
That is why I said for private schools to qualify they’d have to meet some basic standards equivalent to public schools. And its you who seems to think that all private schools are evil or religious indoctrination centres and rather ironic as prominent atheists like Hitchens send their children to religious private schools.
And if the public school education available in their area was extraordinarily poor in quality?
Then the first thing you should do is take its funding and give it to nearby private religious schools.
No, wait, that’s actually the last thing you should do. 
Vouchers are an attempt to destroy schools. The only way I’d support them is if:
[ol]
[li]The money can’t go to religious schools.[/li][li]Schools that accept the money can’t turn away students.[/li][li]Schools must allow students to go for just the price of the voucher.[/li][li]Schools must obey all normal standards for sciences.[/li][li]Free abortion on demand for all students.[/li][li]That last one was just to check if you were reading.[/li][/ol]
Why do you think schools are bad? More importantly, why do you think someone would open a school in a terrible area given all the uncertainties and problems inherent to doing so? The free market doesn’t typically bring good supermarkets or good doctors to poor areas, so what makes you think the schools will come just because there is a profit motive?
I fully support the rights of parents to send their children to private schools, or to home-school them if they wish - provided the curriculum meets some reasonable standard. But I’m not terribly enthusiastic about the tax credit or voucher system, simply because it tends to draw away scarce funding from the public schools. I suppose I would support some kind of grant (like Pell grants for college) for families that wished to privately school their kids but could not afford it.
FWIW, I graduated from a private high school - a very good one, run by the Quakers. There was some focus on religion, but not to excess. Bible studies were offered as an elective but not required. My parents (who were not particularly well off) paid for it out of pocket while continuing to pay full taxes to the local school district. This was long before vouchers or tax credits were thought of. The school itself (or maybe the church) offered reduced tuitions for low-income students and were proud of the fact that they never turned anyone away for lack of money. This, in my mind is how private schools ought to be run.
SS
Then maybe, I don’t know, address that problem instead of in effect trying to make it worse by reducing their funding some more ?
Improve the school system; shut down substandard schools and fire substandard teachers. Bus the displaced children to good schools if necessary but don’t spend money intended for public education on private schools. That’s it in a nut shell: Don’t spend money intended for public education on private schools.
A contentious topic. In theory, I wouldn’t mind school vouchers (or even more broadly, education vouchers that parents are free to use for educational purposes, not just schools), but the actual implementation can be a problem. Many countries in the world already provide subsidized education by running public schools. I don’t see why private schools shouldn’t be subsidized for families who need the extra funds.
However, the implementation is tricky. Economists specializing in education have studied several school vouchers programs but do not agree on the effects of the programs (an overview can be found here – note: PDF file). Key problems I can think of are:
Given these obstacles in implementation, I can see why the more cautious would advocate against school vouchers.
Four of my political ideals:
[ul][li] I believe in market-based solutions.[/li][li] I believe in equal opportunity.[/li][li] I believe diversity is good, but should be a source of strength for society, not a source of strife.[/li][li] I believe in pragmatics.[/li][/ul]
The idea that the consumers of education should have freedom of choice where their education dollar is spent sounds like a very good idea: it’s a market-based solution. There are approaches other than vouchers toward this goal, e.g. charter schools. I would tend to support such ideas. But the key question is not one of idealogy, or what the Dead White Men would of thought; the question is Will the idea work?
Many (but not all) proponents of vouchers are people with money tired of supporting the poor. They’re already sending their kids to private schools but want a taxpayer subsidy for that. Those who think income inequality is a good thing are happy to jump on bandwagons like vouchers, or “Social Security reform.” But I do not think income inequality is a good thing. And I do not think lowering the quality of already poor schools is a good idea.
And yes, let’s be very clear. Bad as some American public schools are, vouchers will only make them worse. The pro-voucher people will answer that parents who care can send their children to private schools instead. But will they? And what kind of private schools will we see if a huge new demand for schools causes entrepreneurs to jump on this bandwagon? Our prisons are now run by private companies; much of our military has been privatised; do you approve of these steps? Privatised prisons led to judges being bribed to incarcerate innocent juveniles. I hate to imagine what kind of schools the right-wing will give us.
And many ignore a fundamental difference between public and private schools. The former must serve all citizens (leading to higher costs). The latter can pick and choose. Here’s a simple test of one’s mathematical aptitude: What will happen to the average level of public-school students in a voucher-based system?
Fifty years after the Civil Rights Movement, the Black-White gap in America is still a big problem. Will vouchers improve Black’s education overall, or make it worse? I’m no expert on education, so I’m not sure. But the people selling vouchers and claiming that they will improve ghetto schools are the same people selling snake oil. A major problem for ghetto schools is that they have less funding than suburban schools. Republican solutions generally approach this problem with the kindness of starvation.
Vouchers will exacerbate the Rich-poor gap in America. Good idea? If you think so, you’ll love vouchers.
Perhaps it will seem simple-minded, but a logical approach when public schools are extraordinarily poor in quality would be to devote extraordinary effort to improving them.
bolding mine
This is where the argument is either dishonest or fantasy. The inner-city kids will not benefit.
These private schools, will they be *in *the inner cities? Will they be inexpense enough to where the voucher covers the full cost? Will they be able to pick and choose students? Those with greatest need will be left out. And with money being drained from public education, they will left with next to nothing.
So, I will publicly support a voucher program that meets that criteria. That the children of those without means can benefit as much as the children of those with means. Meaning there has to be:
Private, decent schools in the inner cities
Voucher covers the complete cost
Poor kids cannot be kept out.
Public Schools still have to be funded to where they are a valid alternative.
But none of these will happen.
This. The thing about public schools is that they MUST accept just about all students. Even the ones who are disruptive, or who have very expensive requirements. Private schools, on the other hand, can and do expel students who cause any problems. And if Johnny or Suzie need an aide to sign for them because they have hearing difficulties, for instance, the public school system has to pay for that aide.
Some private and charter schools are very good, and some homeschooling parents are also very good. In my area, though, most of the homeschoolers go that path because they don’t want their kids to encounter any opposing viewpoints…and the parents are not all that highly educated themselves. And these parents don’t necessarily have any skill in teaching, either.
How do public schools get funded? My vague understanding is that the local government (city, county, independent school district in Texas) funds most of it with state and federal money allocated on a per student basis.
IF that understanding is correct, I would support vouchers for the per student portion.
I self describe as agnostic but I would have no problem with a parent making a choice to send his/her child to a religious based school and using that voucher. I would not see that as a conflict unless there was a limited list of denominations who were allowed to run schools.
Actually, much of it is paid for by local property taxes, although that doesn’t ultimately change the end calculus.
I don’t think that schools that cherry pick students should be allowed to accept vouchers. If they want vouchers, they should have to accept the same pool of students that the public schools do, and they should not be allowed to charge any additional fees.