Help with an unruly 11 year old

For the most part, my son is a quiet kid who is rather well behaved and generally liked by most adults.

The problem comes in at school. He is currently in 6th grade (U.S.) but the problems began last year. We thought we had the problem in hand until school started again this year.

Last year he started lying to my wife and I as well has his teachers. He would come home and tell us that he had no homework. Then he would go into school the next day and tell his teachers that he left his work at home. At the end of the week we would get a paper in his “Friday Folder” that told us of any assignments missing that week, so it didn’t take us long to figure out what was going on.

So we made him start using his assignment notebook to record all assigned work from each class. Then he started “forgetting” to write it down in the notebook. And when he did write assignments in the book, he would do them at home but “forget” to turn them in. That’s right, he would complete the assignment but not turn it in for credit.

Barely 2 weeks into the new school year, he’s at it again. Refusing to write down his assignments in his assignment notebook. Lying to us and the teachers. He’s started skipping classes this year.

We’ve grounded him from everything, yet he still tries to get out of doing the work. He is in every advanced or accelerated class the district offers and when he does the work, he gets good grades without much help from me or my wife. In fact, his test grades are very good. So, I don’t think the classes are too hard for him.

We’ve gotten most of his teachers on board to check over and initial his assignment notebook everyday after each class. But he’s gone back to telling them he left his assignment notebook at home.

I have a feeling that there is something going on here that is only manifesting itself as this behavior. I’ve talked with him many times, but it usually comes down to “I forgot.”

I’m at a complete loss. I don’t know what else to do.

Anyone have any suggestions? I’ve considered therapy or family counseling, but I’m not sure we could afford it.

He’s got the smarts, obviously. But the one point that stuck out for me in your description is writing stuff down.

Has he been tested for dyslexia?

Brilliant people with dyslexia have managed to survive school years by depending on LISTENING, and they fake writing skills. A kid would rather lie, and be caught lying, than admit he or she can’t write, or even read adequately.

I’d also ask for testing for ADHD.

Learning disorders are more prevalent in males than females.

Other than that, LOL…kids DO lie, and the stories are incredibly imaginative and detailed! It gets much worse when the hormones hit!
~VOW

Oh crap, tell me there’s a good answer out there. Sixth grade is where I started going downhill assignments and work-wise. Aced every test that came my way regardless of effort put in on studying/homework, but also used my so-called smarts to find new and exciting ways to not do the work. Punishments? They did teach me valuable lessons in remaining happy despite the loss of material or intangible things, which while actually a good thing meant that threats or punishments were relatively useless with regards to motivating me to get things done. Pattern kept repeating (especially skipping classes), to the point where I eventually dropped out of high school. I eventually got some of my shit together (night school; then on to Columbia U/Georgetown Law), but if something could have smoothed out the work habits earlier, I could have avoided a few bumps and bruises along the way.

Our Dudeling is only two, but I’d love to know if there’s anything I can do along the way to avoid the same pattern–even if it’s too early to say he’ll follow in those particular footsteps.

There is a limit to how much you can do on this one. From what I hear from the people I know with underachievers, it won’t end until they seriously fail at something.

However, I would implement a strategy that my primary kids are using. Each day, they are required to copy down the homework (or write ‘no homework’) and the teacher initials it. We have to initial it in the evening to say that we have read it (or leave a note for the teacher, etc).

It gives daily feedback with little effort.

It sounds like you are trying to do a similar thing but that some teachers won’t do it? I would call in the principal. Grade 6 is a little too early for the kids to be completely on their own with this kind of thing.

I don’t think dyslexia is a problem. He does very well on spelling tests and one of the things we had to ground him from was books. When skipping class, he would lock himself in one of the bathroom stalls and read until the class was over. The kid reads all the time even when not grounded from everything else.

Most of the teachers will. His math teacher is the only one that is pushing back. I only met her once for 5 minutes before the school year began at the school open house. It only took me half that time to figure out that she was a curmudgeonly old bat.

She is doing it, but she isn’t happy about it. I suspect that she’s not really looking it over, but just initialing it to get him out of her face.

But the problem still remains, how do I punish him when he lies to his teachers and says he forgot his assignment notebook at home? I’ve already grounded him from everything.

I was a classic underachiever. Your son sounds much like I was at his age.

I’m not sure it applies to your son, but I finally figured out that my issue what that I was stressed out by assignments. Homework gave me panic attacks. I couldn’t deal with what I felt was a huge amount of pressure so I just blew it off. I used to cry all the way home if I had a bad grade because I knew I was in trouble.

It wasn’t until I talked it over with my dad and he agreed not to yell but to be cool about it and try to help if I got a bad score on an assignment, if I agreed to do the work. That took the pressure off me and I was free to just give it a good shot and not hide bad grades.

Is it possible for you or your spouse to pick him up from school until he’s responsible enough to bring his work home? The embarrassment of having mom or dad waiting at the building like he’s in first grade may motivate him to do the right thing. If he’s skipping classes, threaten that the next time you hear of such a thing, you’re taking a vacation day to walk him from class to class.

Please take your son to a medical doctor first. Get him checked out AND tested for dyslexia etc. You might find your answer there. If not, please get him into counseling (private, not family.) There’s something going on here and it’s happening for a reason. You (and he) just don’t know what it is yet. I totally understand the punishing but it might turn out that it does about as much good as trying to make a lion look and act like a swan. Best of luck to your family.

Count me in as another underachiever like zoid. I started this same crap around 6th grade too. I really pushed back against my “accelerated” classes. Not because they were too hard, or even that I was too lazy. I was just sick of it.

Unfortunately the only thing I can say that got me out of the funk was when I told my 8th grade guidance counselor that I didn’t want to do any advanced classes in 9th grade, then was bored out of my SKULL in 9th grade and missing all my friends from the advanced classes.

In 10th grade I went back to the normal advanced track and all was well. But yeah I did fight it for like 4 years.

It’s not really possible for us to take him to and from school. We both work and our parents pitch in to pick them up from school.

Though when the principal found out that he was skipping classes, he threatened to have one of the lunch ladies follow him around all day. :smiley:

What kind of books does he read? What does he want to be when he grows up (a writer, a professional reader a/k/a editor, or something else)? Is he aware that simply liking to read and being really smart doesn’t land anyone a job these days?

I second getting some basic learning disability and psychological testing done. Talk to his teachers to see how well he’s socializing with classmates. Even if he’s not dyslexic or ADD or OCD or oppositionally defiant (etc), he would still be a pathological liar (although I wouldn’t think that’s likely to be the case, but who knows?). If he’s telling the truth that he “just forgot” dozens of times, then he must have the shortest attention span in the known universe. So obviously he’s not telling the truth, or something is seriously wrong.

Most importantly, if you can’t afford the testing he needs to get diagnosed, are you going to be able to afford to send him to college? If not, have you discussed with him that he will need good grades to get scholarships if he wants to go to college? And that just being smart without motivation doesn’t get you anything in life? I don’t know how effective a motivator this kind of conversation would necessarily be for a kid that young, but you should still talk about it. He needs to know ASAP if he will have to step up the schoolwork to get into college, preferably before high school (which is when college recruiters start paying attention). Maybe this talk could guilt him into telling you the real reason he doesn’t do his homework.

I was a voracious reader when I was a kid, but my mom didn’t believe in being grounded from reading. I don’t believe in it, either. Any amount of risk is too big a risk that you’ll turn him off books forever. Talking to a psychologist would help you find better ways to address his behavior.

Why not try the opposite. Sit down with him to explain that you guys have tried everything, have been unable to produce results, and since he clearly doesn’t want or need your help, he’s on his own. Let me know that at any time, with no questions asked, he could ask you guys for help and you would be willing to step in, but until then, you’re done-zo.

And then do it, at least to his face. Most schools and teachers are willing to correspond directly with you, so you can keep track and make sure he really doesn’t go off the rails.

Give him some time on his own and see how he handles it.

I’m only 25 and am in no position to give parenting advice from that perspective, but I did teach high school physics for 2 years, and student taught 6th grade science for half a year (it was a blast).

If I were your son’s teacher, I would make him call you during class in the middle of collecting their homework assignments. You have no idea how embarassing this is for students. If you or your wife can accept a call at work or on your cell phone during the school day, try to suggest this solution to your son’s teachers. If he “forgets” to bring his homework, the teacher can make him call you to remind him to bring it tomorrow. Every single time. In my experience, at least high school students, they don’t have to call home more than once or twice before they suddenly begin to remember bringing it.

It sounds like you are doing everything in your power to make sure your son is doing his homework and turning it in. Now the teachers need to step up and put the kid on the spot in a way that will encourage good behavior.

My husband was like this when he was in middle school and was eventually diagnosed with ADD. Once he had a diagnosis and was given the skills to deal with it he got a little better but he still had a lot of this kind of issue and started talking about not going to college, etc. When he was a junior in high school his parents arranged for a family friend who owned a construction company to take him on as a summer employee to give him a better idea of what life is like for adults who haven’t gone to college. One summer of intense labor and a good, hard look at the adults around him who had to do this for the rest of their lives sent him back to school with an appreciation for his education and off to college in hopes that he would never have to do that kind of thing to support himself again.

6th grade is too young to send to work on a construction site but it isn’t too young to volunteer with an organization that helps the homeless or injured war veterans and expose him to some of the things that can happen to grown-ups who might not have ended up in that situation had they been more aware of the long term effect their choices might have when they were young.

He will pretty much read anything. Harry Potter, Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, The Hobbit, or the Garfield compilation that his younger brother brought home from school library. ETA - He will literally read anything if it means he can put off doing homework. We caught him, pencil in hand with homework page in front of him, reading a mutual fund prospectus that I had gotten in the mail that day.

The reason we grounded him from reading is because the teachers would give time in class to work on homework and he’d put the homework away and read instead. It was affecting his school work the same way a cellphone or Nintendo DS would.

We did ask him what he wants to be when he grows up. His answers used to be scientist or teacher or something like that. Now they are Video Game Tester or Stay at Home Dad.

Therapy would really put a strain on our budget. We have a separate savings plan for college with a penalty for borrowing against it or some such.

I like the idea of getting him tested for ADD, OCD, dyslexia, etc… Would that be done at a physician’s office? Or somewhere else? Our primary care physician is only a $20 copay.

I say let him face the consequences. Really, he’s old enough to know cause and effect. If he gets bad grades, will the school assign him to less advanced classes next year? If not, then they should. I don’t care what a test says; if a kid isn’t even trying, then he needs to know what happens to you. You end up in a mediocre circumstances and lots of regrets.

(I was immature in middle school. I made great grades, but socially I was in outer space. I think this is one reason why I ended up not being placed in certain advanced classes in high school. Teachers thought I wouldn’t be able to handle the challenge emotionally. Fair? Probably not. But it sure learned me to “act right”.)

If he whines about it, ask him to reflect on his past behavior and then ask him if he thinks it’s fair to have him in a class designed for high-achievers.

If he improves his behavior and his grades, then get the registrar to bump him up.

If he doesn’t care and he still underachieves, then you’ve either got a late-bloomer who will one day turn into an Albert Einstein or a Thomas Edison, or you just have a kid who likes to slack off and will always be this way. But chances are he’s the former. You can’t force flowers to bloom until they are ready. I think people work the same way. It might bite him in the ass later in life, but it’s not your job to protect him from every bad decision he makes.

(I would worry about sending him to therapy. Not every slacker kid needs to be pathologized. Sometimes a phase is just a phase. He might be smart enough to use whatever diagnosis a doctor comes up with as an excuse. Unless he says that he’s worried about his own behavior, I just don’t see it doing any good.)

I was exactly like this at that age, even down to the reading. I was just bored, and I was in a magnet school.

My parents finally gave up and let me face the consequences.

Of which there were none. I failed 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th grades, but was passed on because I kept scoring 99th+ percentile on the annual statewide achievement tests. IN the 10th grade, I finally decided to do (some of) the work, because I was interested in it. Science, math, history. Slacked off in the other classes but had figured out that a smart kid could do almost nothing and still pass.

Went to community college, did well, transferred to a state school, did well, and got a PhD.

Of course this was 25 years ago. I’m not sure what would happen to me today. But I don’t think you can force your son to do the work. As my mother said to the Principal. “What do you want me to do, hold the pencil for him??!”. He has to decide for himself to do it.

Go get a copy of the book ‘Ending the Homework Hassle’ by John Rosemond.

It is a book that addresses directly and succinctly all the problems you are encountering, and shifts your thinking and your strategy to put the burden and consequences squarely on the shoulders of the kid. None of this time-consuming check-the-assignment-notebook / progress-reports-from-the-teachers every ten minutes etc. that puts all the effort on the part of parents and teachers.

We’ve used it to great success in our home twice. I highly, highly recommend it.

You can’t force an underachiever to achieve. I’m sorry you’re going through this, it must be very hard for a parent.

Your son sounds exactly like me at that age, even down to being grounded from books. I was smart, and a good kid at heart, I just didn’t care about school or grades. Nothing my parents or teachers did made me care. I flunked for years and dropped out of high school as soon as I could - I don’t regret it. I chose not to pursue higher education but am a basically happy person who has had no trouble holding jobs and supporting herself financially since I left my parent’s house at 18.

I got a diagnosis of (Inattentive) ADD when I was 11, and we tried medication, but it didn’t solve the school problem for me. However I think medication is worth a try for any kid with an ADD diagnosis. For some kids, it totally turns things around school-wise.

My long-term advice would be that if he’s still like this at 15-16, by all means encourage him to get his GED, drop out of high school, get a job so you don’t have to pay for his stuff, and pursue college/trade school/etc at his own pace and according to his own desires. There’s nothing wrong with starting out in community college because your grades in high school were poor. I know a lot of friends who ultimately got degrees from good universities by going that route - including my dad, who was also a massive failure at high school but ended up with his Masters from Cornell.

In contrast to pbbh’s story, I look at all my co-workers at my rather menial jobs and am glad I am not struggling to pay off my student loans for 4-year degrees like they are. :wink: Such is the economy at the moment.