Straight Dope Message Board

[Diamonds02]

It seems that many black people are sensitive to cool temperatures. I have many many examples. The latest is at work. My black co-wokers get angry whenever people turn on the AC and it is below 85 degrees. It's "too cold". I also hear them say that a natural consequence of getting too cold is catching pneumonia. They admit that their sensitivity to cold is biological.

Well, is there any truth to this? That African-Americans are significantly sensitive to cold temps, compared to other races? And are they more likely to get sick from getting cold? Futhermore, I thought the belief that one can get sick from cold temps is just a myth, especially something as serious as pneumonia.

If it isn't something biological, it must be cultural, I guess. If so, when and why did this start? 1

[Mr. Slant]

If it was cultural, bear in mind that they were imported to pick cotton in the southern United States.
That was where most of them stayed for centuries after the event.
If the slave trade had been importing African slaves to Canada for the Moose Farming industry, these same associates you mention might get ticked off any time the weather got above 74 degrees.. 2

[bump]

You could just as easily say "Italians" as "african americans".

When in Rome last December, people were wearing thick insulated jackets and scarves when the weather was in the 50s and 60s. My wife and I were pretty amused by the spectacle. 3

[MLS]

I think it's a matter of what you're used to. Is this true about African Americans who have lived in northern climes their whole life?

The summer before last I was in French Polynesia (to see a total eclipse of the sun), on a boat. Of course, since that is in the southern hemisphere, this was what passes for winter in those parts. It was amusing to all concerned that the northerners were enjoying the refreshing nighttime temperatures of about 65 or 70, but the locals were bundled up in jackets, shivering. 4

[Gagundathar]

In answer to your other question, it appears that cold weather does not directly cause colds.
However, coldness can cause vasoconstriction in the nasal passages that can lead to dryness which in turn compromises our ability to filter infectious agents.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/cold-a...e-weather.aspx

I have heard that dry air can cause microscopic fissures in our mucus membranes which can allow viruses and bacteria easier access to our bodies. This seems to match the data found in the above link. 5

[RickJay]

African Americans are disproportionately represented in southern climes. There's hardly any other explanation needed.

People become accustomed to the climate they grew up in. What I would consider a fairly normal summer day, say 28c/80F with lots of humidity, would be an appalling scorcher to someone from Edinburgh. Conversely, 38c is absurdly hot to me but not a big deal if you're from Riyadh. 6

[Atomic Alex]

Originally Posted by MLS

The summer before last I was in French Polynesia (to see a total eclipse of the sun), on a boat. Of course, since that is in the southern hemisphere, this was what passes for winter in those parts. It was amusing to all concerned that the northerners were enjoying the refreshing nighttime temperatures of about 65 or 70, but the locals were bundled up in jackets, shivering.

I'm European and a few years ago I was studying at a university in Manchester. It was a mild winter morning and I was walking to class wearing jeans and T-shirt, when crossing a footbridge I met an Arab looking man coming the other way bundled up with a woolen hat, scarf and bulky jacket...I imagine we were both thinking the same thing, "Look at that crazy bastard..." 7

[Hermitian]

Before all the haters come in (I may be too late). I have to say that I grew up in a majority black community and this idea was not scoffed at. I knew people that worked in the electric/gas company's customer service. When people called up and complained about the heating bill, one of the first question they asked was what temperature is it inside your house (hearing values in the 80s was not uncommon). It was just accepted that black people kept their houses warmer. Everyone there was local so it had nothing to do with them being from somewhere even more south. 8

[dracoi]

Originally Posted by MLS

I think it's a matter of what you're used to. Is this true about African Americans who have lived in northern climes their whole life?

Even if they have lived in northern climates for a long time, artificial heating can make temperature preference a cultural thing.

When I used to manage apartments, I once responded to a complaint about condensation on the windows. The woman living there had the thermostat cranked to 85. (Which is the highest number the thermostat had on it. I could believe it was even warmer than that.) Given that this is near Seattle, she must have had her heat going every day of the year.

I'm not going to make any comparisons to race, but I will say that, if one's parents grew up in the South and then moved North, they might keep the heat at home much higher than "normal." Their kid born and raised in New York might be acclimated to a very different set of temperatures than the neighbor's kids 9

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by dracoi

I'm not going to make any comparisons to race, but I will say that, if one's parents grew up in the South and then moved North, they might keep the heat at home much higher than "normal." Their kid born and raised in New York might be acclimated to a very different set of temperatures than the neighbor's kids

This is similar to where I was thinking.

My wild idea:
Think back a few decades, blacks were obviously more poor, and they would have been the last to get A/C to cool their houses in the summer. If they lived the whole summer in the heat, they are going to be more acclimated to the heat by the time winter comes around,so they kept their place warmer in the winter.

Because of the lack of A/C for the summer months, their temperatures preferences was just shifted up 10 degrees or so from the (richer) white folks.

Almost everyone in the south has A/C, but habits and climate preferences change slowly. 10

[Sampiro]

It's a southern thing. Personally I'm a lifelong southerner and I love cool weather, but I have many friends and relatives who when the temp gets down to 60 degrees you'd think an Arctic blast was setting in. Just like the comment above about Rome, we had a mild cool spell last week with temps in the 50s and many (not all but many) people- black and white, younger and older- were wearing heavy sweaters, hooded jackets, gloves, etc.. When the weather really does get cold or freezing the same people bundle to twice their normal size and act like they're walking through a zombie filled mall when they go outside (i.e. get outside, get to where you're going fast as can be, don't look around and don't look back).

No idea if it's genetic. True, my own ancestors (and while I like cold weather my sister and cousins hate it) spent centuries in the heat of what's now the southern U.S., but before that most of them came from Northern Ireland, Scotland, England, Switzerland, Germany, etc., where they'd lived for thousands of years so you'd think the pre-set would tolerate cold. OTOH, black people's black ancestors came to a hot climate from a hot climate so perhaps they are genetically more sensitive, but otoh ancestries are very mixed down here...

I'm going with cultural.

And the false connection between cool=cold/flu/pneumonia is universal. 11

[Sampiro]

My parents and grandparents grew up in Alabama without air conditioning. They were not used to it in any way, and my grandparents worked outside in the heat.

When these people got AC they hit the road running. My father and grandfather especially would keep the house nearly freezing in mid summer. The "we weren't used to it" thing didn't apply to AC (or to television); they got used to it quick and permanently. 12

[wonky]

Would that this were a given. Then Asimovian and I wouldn't always struggle to find a mutually acceptable thermostat setting. 13

[Asimovian]

Well, most of the folks in my family (who, as it happens, are black) definitely get cold easily. I am the freakish exception in the family, as anything above 70 degrees is uncomfortably warm. I had the thermostat in our apartment set to 68 degrees until we got our first electric bill recently.

On the occasions I've had to be in colder weather, particularly below freezing, I am in heaven. I know it makes no sense. And yes, I get asked all the time how and why the hell I've lived in Los Angeles all my life. 14

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally Posted by bump

You could just as easily say "Italians" as "african americans".

Don't use this particular phrase in Italian-American neighborhoods.

There are certain old views about Italian-Americans that can create ...difficulties. 15

[md2000]

Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor

Don't use this particular phrase in Italian-American neighborhoods.

There are certain old views about Italian-Americans that can create ...difficulties.

I'm thinking of "Do The Right Thing"...

One item I recall, discussed why there are fewer black swimming champions, despite their obvious success as runners. One suggestion was that generally black people have less body fat than similarly athletic whites or asians; this due to their evolutionary need for less insulation.

Of course, if the people complaining about this look more like Momma from Momma's family, then obviously this is not relevant. 16

[Uber_the_Goober]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

This is similar to where I was thinking.

My wild idea:
Think back a few decades, blacks were obviously more poor, and they would have been the last to get A/C to cool their houses in the summer. If they lived the whole summer in the heat, they are going to be more acclimated to the heat by the time winter comes around,so they kept their place warmer in the winter.

Because of the lack of A/C for the summer months, their temperatures preferences was just shifted up 10 degrees or so from the (richer) white folks.

Almost everyone in the south has A/C, but habits and climate preferences change slowly.

So...did they suddenly gain the ability to pay higher utility bills in the wintertime??? 17

[Fleetwood]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

This is similar to where I was thinking.

My wild idea:
Think back a few decades, blacks were obviously more poor, and they would have been the last to get A/C to cool their houses in the summer. If they lived the whole summer in the heat, they are going to be more acclimated to the heat by the time winter comes around,so they kept their place warmer in the winter.

Because of the lack of A/C for the summer months, their temperatures preferences was just shifted up 10 degrees or so from the (richer) white folks.

Almost everyone in the south has A/C, but habits and climate preferences change slowly.

???? What do you smoke?
In the summer months, my (richer) white folks family had no A/C. By your example, our preferences should have shifted up, as well. Didn't happen. 18

[monstro]

Oh good. Another "Black people do this" thread. How I love these.

I'm black. And I get cold easily. But I never thought it had anything to do with my race. And although I get cold easily, I would not say I have an "aversion" to it. I just put on a sweater.

It's funny because I loved living in NJ, where the winters would often serve up some nice snow days. But I wilted under the Florida sun. Grew up in Hotlanta and always hated the summertime hell. Give me the northeast and the mid-Atlantic over the Deep South any day!

There are plenty of black people who live in "cold" places. Detroit, Chicago, NYC, DC...these places aren't exactly tropical. 19

[Wesley Clark]

Yay, I get to expound on my theories on the genetic differences between the races.

I read a book several years ago, I believe 'survival of the sickest'.

http://www.amazon.com/Survival-Sicke...cm_rdp_product

But the argument was that since blacks stayed in Africa while other races left for other climates (including people who left for Europe during the last ice age 10,000+ years ago) that blacks do not respond as well to the temperature variations. The author talked about other ideas in the book too, how diseases of today helped us survive the black plague and ideas like that.

I have no idea how much they controlled for racism in this study on soldiers during the Korean war (because despite them saying all the soldiers had equal access to warm clothing, realistically you can assume the black soldiers would be short changed back in the 1950s) but in 1951-1952 in Korea white soldiers had 5.8 cold weather injuries per 1,000 while black soldiers had 35.68.

http://books.google.com/books?id=s5s...page&q&f=false


Here is another fun fact from that book. Black people make far less vitamin D than white people (about 10x less per amount of sunlight) due to more melanin. But they have more folic acid since UV light breaks that down. It has to do, in part, with the nutritional deficiencies seen in different historical environments (but I don't know how big a factor that was). The relative lack of vitamin d may explain some (but not all I'm sure) of the higher rates of CVD and type II diabetes among blacks seen today.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_4.htm

Also white people have names like Lenny while black people have names like Carl. Celebrate diversity. 20

[GameHat]

My guess is that the strongest factor is natural acclimatization (at least in the US, more black people live in southern areas) with maybe a very weak race-based physiological factor going on as well (increased heat radiation from dark skin vs light? Body morphology? Fat distribution? Body/head hair type? Who knows.)

Speaking re: acclimatization: My Aunt (white, mother's sister) grew up in the same weather climate (Madison, WI) as I did. She moved south a while back. After living there for about a decade, she visited us in Madison. This was early March some years back.

With temps in the 50s, I was loving it outside in a t-shirt and jeans. She was bundled up in full winter gear (heavy coat, hat, scarf, mittens) and was absolutely miserably freezing cold.

And of course the counter examples. There *are* black people in colder climes (shock!) and at least the ones I know and work with deal with and dress for the cold about the same as everybody else. And I've heard no complaints about the office being kept in the low 70s in winter. 21

[carnut]

I have a friend who came from South India; she hates the cold MN winters.
Her husband is American black with some Pacific Islander and White blood; he hates the cold.
Their son, born in Calif., loves the cold and suffers in the heat. Of all the countries and climates he's been in, he wants to settle on the Iron Range of MN. Go figure.

We either adjust to the temps or we don't. I doubt race plays into it very much. 22

[Surreal]

Originally Posted by Wesley Clark

Black people make far less vitamin D than white people (about 10x less per amount of sunlight) due to more melanin.

Not entirely true.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1848745

The varying epidermal melanin content that produces racial pigmentation determines the number of photons that reach the lower (malpighian) cellular layers, where vitamin D3 synthesis takes place. We investigated the effect of racial pigmentation on vitamin D3 formation, stimulating the process with a fixed dose of UVB radiation (wavelengths, 290 to 320 nm). Vitamin D nutritional status was further assessed measuring serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D and the most active serum metabolite, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. Experimental subjects were young (third decade of life) and healthy, representing the white, Oriental (East Asian), Indian (South Asian), and black races. Basal serum vitamin D3 levels were similar among groups, ranging from 2.3 +/- 0.6 nmol/L (mean +/- SEM) for blacks to 3.4 +/- 1.0 nmol/L for Indians. Following whole-body exposure to 27 mJ/cm2 of UVB, there was a significant racial group effect on serum vitamin D3 levels. Post-UVB levels were significantly higher in whites (31.4 +/- 4.4 nmol/L) than in Indians or blacks (12.8 +/- 2.9 and 9.1 +/- 2.1 nmol/L, respectively), while the levels in Orientals (27.8 +/- 4.4 nmol/L) differed significantly from those in blacks and Indians but not in whites. Race had only a marginal effect on serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D, with higher levels in whites than in blacks (69.9 +/- 12.7 vs 29.7 +/- 6.2 nmol/L). Serum 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D and vitamin D binding protein levels were similar in all groups. We conclude that while racial pigmentation has a photoprotective effect, it does not prevent the generation of normal levels of active vitamin D metabolites.

23

[mac_bolan00]

how fat are those afro-americans you're talking about? 24

[Koxinga]

This being the Dope, I'm surprised no one has chimed in on this discussion of temperature with the perennial "Isn't that due to black body radiation?" 25

[Hennessy]

Is all human skin the same thickness? 26

[Onomatopoeia]

Nothing scientific to add here. I do find the topic interesting because of my family's make-up.

My mom's extended family, who are black, reside solely in the mid-Atlantic / Northeast, i.e., Maryland, NJ, NY, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. My dad's extended family in the US, however, who are white, reside primarily in the South, Southwest and Midwest, e.g., Georgia, Texas, New Mexico, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Florida, Arizona, etc...

I have absolutely no idea if members of my mom's extended family in, say, Providence, crank up the heat higher in their homes than non black local residents, just as I have no idea if my dad's extended family in, say, Wichita, crank up the AC higher than black local residents. It'd be an interesting experiment though.

I can tell you that my mom visited my brother in Austin a few years ago and doesn't relish the thought of doing so again solely because the heat was too much for her.

Make of that what you will. 27

[Walther Ego]

Interestingly, in this thread, everybody assumes that people who are used to cold outside, want cold inside.

As someone from Northern Europe, I'm used to warm inside and cold outside. Whenever I go south, I notice the effects of this. Once in a London hotel, the cleaning staff left the window open for hours, in October. When I came back, the temperature inside and outside was the same. Whether in Italy ot Scotland, a winter outside temperature is warm and inside temperature cold. 28

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Walther Ego

Interestingly, in this thread, everybody assumes that people who are used to cold outside, want cold inside.

As an unfortunately long-time Floridian, ideally it would be cold outside and medium temperature inside (medium = would feel comfortable either in t-shirt and pants or t-shirt and shorts.)

Except in shops. There I'd prefer cold inside as well so I don't have to unbutton or take off my winter clothes 29

[Bridget Burke]

I read about a white guy in Chicago, during a very cold spell, who asked a black guy on the street: "Why don't you go back to Africa--& take me with you?" I'm descended from the folks who decided to head North from Africa just in time to enjoy a couple of Ice Ages. And hook up with those hot Neanderthals. Does that make us smarter?

Houston surely gets hotter than hell--turn up that AC! But I wouldn't care to live in the Frozen North.

I share an office with a diverse group. The one who usually complains when the AC gets cool is a lady from Mexico--of pure Spanish blood, as she gladly informs everybody.... 30

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

On the occasions I've had to be in colder weather, particularly below freezing, I am in heaven. I know it makes no sense. And yes, I get asked all the time how and why the hell I've lived in Los Angeles all my life.

Heh. I was born in L.A. and lived in San Diego as a child before moving to the Antelope Valley. I remember sweltering when I was a kid. (San Diego has 'perfect' weather? Pfui!) I guess I was about five, visiting a grandmother in Anaheim. It was hot and muggy, and I was sweating. I found a can of Right Guard and sprayed it on me, since my five-year-old mind thought it would stop me from sweating and I'd be cool. Eleven years in the Mojave Desert wasn't that bad. 'It's a dry heat!' And the swamp cooler did a decent job. Seventeen years in an un-air conditioned apartment just about drove me mad. (OK, there was the noise and traffic, too.) Now I live in Rainland.

I've noticed that driving on a beautiful 60ºF day I'll have the window down and my arm out the window. I'll run down to the store in shorts, T-shirt, and zoriis when it's 50º and a light rain. If it gets more than 80º up here, I'm likely to have a fan on. Winter? Yeah, it does get a bit chilly. My SoCal roots begin to show when it gets into the 30s. Last year I wore a woolen pullover. It still hasn't gotten quite cold enough for me to wear my sheepskin flying jacket for any length of time, though.

I love New Orleans, but I always seem to go there in Summer. It's hot. It's like Africa-hot. Tarzan couldn't take that kind of hot. But I go anyway. 31

[taffygirl]

OK, I can't stand it any more, so I'll chime in.

1) Millions of African-Americans live in northern cities. If you're going to assume that because you've heard a few of this group arguing that it's too cold inside is an indication that this is something true of the entire demographic, you're succumbing to the logical fallacy of hasty generalization. This is true even if the people in this subset buy into the stereotype.

2) Of the millions of black Americans, many have some white ancestry. According to wikipedia, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule#Racial_mixtures_of_blacks_and_whites_in_modern_America"[/URL] the figure is around 78%, but this percentage varies from site to site. You could just as logically say that certain European groups have an aversion to cold weather, as evidenced by the fact that so many African-Americans have some European ancestry and they, along with the non-African descendants, have an aversion to cold.

3) Can we please not get our information on American subcultures from fictional films and generalize from there? It's just not true that there is some sort of cultural bigotry towards blacks among Italian-Americans.That's not to say that there aren't neighborhoods like Jones Beach where there's historically been prejudice against blacks, but for every bigoted Italian who lives there, there's one there or elsewhere who does not discriminate, so let's watch all the ethnic stereotypes, OK? As is usually the case, reality is more complicated than filmdom would have us believe.

Whew. OK, I feel better now. 32

[BigT]

Originally Posted by taffygirl

OK, I can't stand it any more, so I'll chime in.

1) Millions of African-Americans live in northern cities. If you're going to assume that because you've heard a few of this group arguing that it's too cold inside is an indication that this is something true of the entire demographic, you're succumbing to the logical fallacy of hasty generalization. This is true even if the people in this subset buy into the stereotype.

2) Of the millions of black Americans, many have some white ancestry. According to wikipedia, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule#Racial_mixtures_of_blacks_and_whites_in_modern_America"[/URL] the figure is around 78%, but this percentage varies from site to site. You could just as logically say that certain European groups have an aversion to cold weather, as evidenced by the fact that so many African-Americans have some European ancestry and they, along with the non-African descendants, have an aversion to cold.

3) Can we please not get our information on American subcultures from fictional films and generalize from there? It's just not true that there is some sort of cultural bigotry towards blacks among Italian-Americans.That's not to say that there aren't neighborhoods like Jones Beach where there's historically been prejudice against blacks, but for every bigoted Italian who lives there, there's one there or elsewhere who does not discriminate, so let's watch all the ethnic stereotypes, OK? As is usually the case, reality is more complicated than filmdom would have us believe.

Whew. OK, I feel better now.

Glad you feel better. 33

[Cartoonacy]

Originally Posted by taffygirl

That's not to say that there aren't neighborhoods like Jones Beach where there's historically been prejudice against blacks,

You're talking about Jones Beach on Long Island, NY? It's less than ten miles from me. It would never occur to me to refer to it as a "neighborhood." It's a state park. Non-residential. 34

[dracoi]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

As an unfortunately long-time Floridian, ideally it would be cold outside and medium temperature inside (medium = would feel comfortable either in t-shirt and pants or t-shirt and shorts.)

So... 65 F, then? That's great weather for shorts in my book... but I do get odd looks from everyone around me so you might have been thinking of something different.

If this thread should be teaching you anything, it's that terms like "medium temperature" and "comfortable" have very little common ground between different people. 35

[Ludovic]

I'd feel comfortable at 65F in shorts if I were outside, not necessarily even doing a lot, but moving around just a tad. To sit indoors in shorts at 65 would be a couple degrees too cool. 36

[Broomstick]

whoops, wrong thread - NM. 37

[Diceman]

Originally Posted by bump

When in Rome last December, people were wearing thick insulated jackets and scarves when the weather was in the 50s and 60s. My wife and I were pretty amused by the spectacle.

I got the same amusement when I was in college, watching people from places like Southeast Asia walk around bundled up like eskimoes, while us "natives" were wearing light windbreakers, or sometimes no jacket at all. 38

[Gyrate]

Yay! Accidental zombie!

Originally Posted by bump

You could just as easily say "Italians" as "african americans".

When in Rome last December, people were wearing thick insulated jackets and scarves when the weather was in the 50s and 60s. My wife and I were pretty amused by the spectacle.

That's nothing - some years ago I was in Palermo. It was sunny and in the high 80s and people were wearing long leather coats.

Which, you know, was absolutely fine because when in Palermo do not look at the men standing around in expensive coats wearing sunglasses and certainly don't make comments about their fashion choices. 39

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

whoops, wrong thread - NM.

"whoops, wrong thread" she says, as she resurrects a zombie.

That's how Dr. Frankenstein ended up putting the brain of a maniac into his creation, you know.

Still, "whoops, wrong brain", "whoops, wrong thread"; I guess it's all good, as long as you know HOW the catastrophe started.

40

[Asimovian]

I am pleased to have this zombie-led opportunity to report that, after two-and-a-half years of further research, this African-American is still not even remotely averse to cold temps.

I anxiously await peer review. 41

[Really Not All That Bright]

Here, put this coat on. 42

[Colibri]

Since this zombie was raised by accident, I'm going to close it.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator 43