Austria was the core of the Kingdom of Germany and part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation, most of the King of Germans were Austrians, until this was dissolved in 1806 and then the after the Congress of Vienna the German Confederation was created which then seen Pan-Germanism start to arise and the Austrians were having a German dualism against the Prussians who wanted to unify Germany without Austria.
After the Revolution of 1848 in the German states the Austrians were defeated in the Austro-Prussian war of 1866 which consequently excluded the Austrians and Austria from Germany - but if Austria had beat the Prussians, Germany would have been unified under Austrian rule as a Greater Germany, anyways in 1867 the Austria-Hungary Empire was formed and the German Empire was formed in 1871, after the end of World War I the name of Austria was the Republic of German-Austria and the only reason it never became part of Germany - even though it declared itself a part of the German Republic - was because the Treaty of Versailles strictly forbid the union with Germany and the name.
In 1938 the Anschluss was voted and welcomed by the Austrians, and Hitler, himself an Austrian by birth, made the re-unification of Austria with Germany and now a Greater Germany existed.
So although between 1871 to 1938 the Austrians were Austrians not Germans by nationality/citizenship they still surely were ethnically German, the biggest ethnic group in Austria-Hungary were Germans (24%) and these considered themselves Germans first, Austrians second it seems to have only been after World War II the Austrians have developed their own distinct national identity and reject the German identity and have formed an Austrian nation (although many historians call this a “big lie”) but say back in Haydn or Hitler’s (two different eras) these both considered themselves Germans, Haydn did the Germany’s national anthem (Deutschland über alles) and Hitler was the German leader and did consider himself German despite not being born in Germany because of how it was unified which excluded Austria. Hitler’s birthplace has also swapped from Bavarian to Austrian rule four times, so a few hundred years ago he would have been considered German by citizenship as Bavaria is part of Germany (since the unification and today)… surely that must mean if Bavarians are Germans, so are the Austrians.
@ I’m not saying they are Germans by nationality as they are not born German citizens, but surely they still are ethnic Germans so can still be considered German.
I would think no more than Australians, Americans, or Canadians would be considered English.
We share a common heritage but are removed from the original source.
What’s your point exactly? Your username is a little telling here… Austria is a sovereign country and has been for 65+ years, I doubt any of them consider themselves German.
Besides, Haydn did not compose the German national anthem - he wrote a string quartet for the Austrian emperor (Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser), and many years later, Hoffmann von Fallersleben wrote “Das Lied der Deutschen”.
(Which reminds me of a joke that I heard once: What makes the Austrians the smartest people in the world? They managed to convince the world that Hitler was German and that Beethoven was Austrian. )
Do you not understand the difference between nationality and ethnicity?
Austria was part of Germany until 1866.
I don’t think you even read my post.
My username has very little to do with it, nationality and ethnicity are two different things, I was saying Austrians are ethnically German.
The song was still written by him " The music was written by Joseph Haydn in 1797 as an anthem for the birthday of the Austrian Emperor Francis II of the Holy Roman Empire." This is “song for the Germans” incase you have forgotten, so why would an Austrian write a song if he wasn’t a German for the Germans?..:eek:
"The absence of an Austrian national identity … [MODERATOR NOTE: Remainder of extensive quote from another site deleted.]
There was no “Germany” in 1866. For all effects and purposes, the Holy Roman Empire came to a end with the Peace of Westfalia in 1648, although it had barely existed for centuries before that.
Except Hoffmann von Fallersleben, who wrote the lyrics, was not born until 1798. It was not a “Song for the Germans” when Haydn wrote it. Get your facts straight.
Anyway, I’m not going to bother with that copied wall of text.
It is easy to tell when you switch from your own words, which are full of basic mistakes, to stuff that you are copying wholesale from other sources. All one has to do is Google the passages that appear uncharacteristically well-written. For example, the words “the absence of an Austrian national identity was one of the problems confronted when Austria became a country in November 1918” turn up, verbatim, on several other web pages.
This is stolen in its entirety from AUSTRIAN NATIONAL IDENTITY. Since it is sourced to the “U.S. Library of Congress” I doubt that’s original to you either.
The SDMB is just like school. You can’t ever just quote other peoples’ words and claim them as you own. You cite them and then use that information to develop your own arguments in your own words.
Your question was “Are Austrians still considered to be Germans?” The answer to that is “no.” You know who answered that question? **Your own cite. **
Did you even bother to read the words you stole?
If you want to argue for a different answer the proper etiquette around here is start a thread in one of the debating forums. But you’re not not going to get far if your cites keep disproving your claims.
For starters, there was never such a thing as a “Kingdom of Germany”.
But it’s true that until the middle of the 19th century, there was no doubt at all that Austria was a part of Germany and Austrian were Germans.
The situation was somewhat more complicated, though: Austria-Hungary, i. e. the Austrian empire, consisted of German-speaking territories as well as parts with other nationalities.
Today, after two World Wars, this is no longer an issue. There are, however, individuals on the extreme right of the political spectrum in Austria who feel that Austrians are indeed Germans.
The late Austrian far-right politician Jörg Haider ( Jörg Haider - Wikipedia ) famously called the idea of an Austrian nation an ideological miscarriage.
There is a witty saying that Austrians like to consider Adolf Hitler a German and Ludwig van Beethoven an Austrian.
@ “Austrian” is a nationality, there is no ethnic group by Austrians are ethnic Germans. You cannot separate Germany and Austria history, until 1866 Austria was part of Germany’s history.
GermanicPride, do not copy and paste material from other sites without attribution. You may quote brief passages, but otherwise should just provide links to material you wish to reference.
This. Why should anyone bother reading your half plagiarized posts when you make statements as completely wrong as the one this is in reply to? How exactly was Austria part of Germany in 1866 when Germany didn’t exist until 1871?
There is no single definition of “ethnicity”. However, it’s hard to argue against self-identity, and if Austrians don’t self identify as Germans, then they’re not.
I guess a good analogy is the relationship between Canada (the English speaking part) and the United States. Canadians for the most part do not consider themselves Americans (American meaning: USA) at all, they probably outright reject that idea.
However, Americans and Canadians share the same language and have very much in common in every aspect of life. Somebody from a totally different culture like, let’s say, in Southeast Asia, would probably say that the differences are almost negligible.
That is, at least in my mind, pretty much also the situation with Germany and Austria.
Could be worse, it could be an issue of ethnicity, race and cultural identity. And that Username is clearly someone with no axe to grind. And we haven’t mentioned Hitler yet.
Actually, I’m only trying to post before the thread is locked.
)