Sovereign citizen tests his theories in practice; is shocked by the results

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

(Was considering the Pit, but this doesn’t rise to pitworthy…).

A young man named Robert Peterson has learned that the various legal theories he’s heard on the Internet may not be entirely accurate.

A brief synopsis of the event is shown here (3.5 minute YouTube video).
The whole unedited sequence is given in four videos starting with this one, but it only provides additional background asshattery to explain the end result. The unedited version seems to be posted by his parents, in the baffling belief that they exonerate their son.

In court to contest a ticket for riding a bicycle without a headlight, a young man decides he’s going to video the proceedings. This is apparently a no-no in the Idaho courthouse where he is. He tries a line of Sovereign Citizen, Freeman on the Land mumbo-jumbo (“I don’t wish to create joinder with you.”), to the restrained bemusement of courthouse workers.
Eventually, he tries to force his way into the courtroom to tape the proceedings, and is tasered, arrested, and is charged with battery and criminal contempt.

Now, I’m generally pretty non-violent, but I have to admit I grinned with satisfaction when he went down. Trying to barge past courthouse security seems a spectacularly ill-advised thing to do, but then ill-advised seems to be this fellow’s modus operandi.

Kudos to the security guys - they showed a lot of cool in the face of aggressively persistent ignorance.

2

I saw what you did there…

I’d expect that out there in Potatostan there may be quite a few of these Sovereign Freemen Whatchamacallit folk and the court staff’s patience must get tested with some frequency.

3

Rational Wiki on Freeman. The section on “Freeman Successes” is quite droll. :smiley:

4

Don’t fool yourself, they are everywhere. The magic word defense is getting quite popular.

5

“Potatostan”…I like it!

6

I have to admit, I kinda felt like they got taser-happy a little quickly, but I can’t exactly blame them, as they exercised more restraint than I would. Thanks for the laugh.

7

I loved it. And I was born in DC, so I’m a real citizen!

8

I’m absolutely shocked that I’ve never gotten a reference question about this. Everybody wants to know all about the secrets of the Freemasons (pro tip - they eat a lot of charity breakfasts) and the Zionist Conspiracy, and in true retro spirit the Tri-Lateral Commission. But I’ve never had one of these sovereignty people!

9

Here’s the formula:

[ul]
[li]A little bit of Common Law[/li][li]A little bit of Contract Law and Uniform Commercial Code, which they believe has relevance far beyond what mere mortals consider ‘commerce’ or ‘contracts’[/li][li]A tiny sliver of something they think comprises Admiralty Law[/li][li]A whole lotta crazy[/li][/ul]

Put in a blender and add more crazy. Blend for a few minutes. Remove most of the non-crazy, which will be adhering to the sides trying to get away from the crazy. More crazy will jump in of its own accord at this point; let it. Dirty some (legal) briefs with the results. Lose, if you actually attempt to use those briefs in court.

10

Watch all four videos, if you’ve got a half-hour or so to spare. It starts at the door of the courthouse, with the security checkpoint. He claims he will send them (guards? the courthouse? the state?) a bill for having to put his belongings, including the video camera, through the x-ray and for stepping through the metal detector. He’s trying to take names and asking if the guards accept “full commercial liability.”

Then he makes his way into the courtroom. Soon, he attracts the attention of a security guard, who tells him, politely, to stop taping. He refuses, the guard tells him to stop again, he again refuses; and things go on like this for a while. Finally, more guards are called, while one stands in front of him to make sure he’s not taping the proceedings. All the while, he’s stating various bits of freeman woo “for the record.”

Eventually, because he won’t quit taping, court proceedings are stopped and the courtroom is cleared. He leaves with all the others, whom he claims are witnesses of this violation of his rights. Then, in the hallway, he produces what he calls a “legal document” allowing him to video courtroom proceedings. (It looks like no legal document I’ve ever seen issued by a court.) Nobody in authority will pay any attention to it, but they’re not stopping him from filming and talking out in the hallway.

Then we get to the “I’m not a person but I am a man,” and “born in America in one of the several states” and “not willing to create joinder” stuff, followed by him trying to push his way back into the courtroom, just before the tasering.

After all that, I’m unsure if they got taser-happy a little quickly. They gave him every chance to comply, they were polite and restrained at all times, and they did not prevent him from being in the courthouse or the courtroom (it was just filming in the courtroom that bothered them). He could have stood in the hallway all he liked, and filmed everything out there. But he chose not to. Ultimately, the impression I got was that this guy was going out of his way to be a PITA to everybody who worked at the courthouse.

I did look at some of the other recommendations on YouTube, and they were hilarious! The fact that these people honestly believe this stuff–funny, but scary in a way also.

11

The guy thought he was Bugs Bunny. He found out he was Yosemite Sam.

12

Ah, thanks for the recap, Spoons and for saving me the trouble of watching it. I’m surprised the exercised as much patience as they did and allowed him to go along his business.

So, what was with the “not willing to create joinder” thing? Does that mean anything out in wooland or is it just his own crazy ramblings?

13

Glad to help. Hey, every now and then, we’ve gotta take one for the team. :slight_smile:

The impression I get from the RationalWiki link posted upthread is that a so-called freeman sees each individual as two entities: a legal person, and a human being. While all freemen admit to being human, it is the “legal person” status that bothers them, as by admitting to being a legal person, they feel that they will then be subject to the laws and other rules that are laid down by governments. In the video, Robert is reluctant to admit to being a person to the courthouse employee, as in his mind, that would create “joinder” between Robert the person and Robert the man, making them one and the same and thus subject to laws and governments.

It wouldn’t. In reality, and just as the RationalWiki link points out, “In real law, joinder means joining related cases together, not establishing identity.” (Quote from the RationalWiki link.)

14

Yes; trying to look up “create joinder” I came across the Wikipedia page on joinder.

I also got a lot of wacky “freemen on the land” stuff. It’s clearly not just unique to this guy.

15

What happens when you think a lively and stimulating conversation is talking with yourself in the mirror.

16

You can see at the end of the first video that he’s wearing toe shoes. I think that justifies the tazering tight there. Even Vinny didn’t try showing up in court wearing toe shoes.

ETA: Holy shit, I think his mother’s wearing toe shoes too! Someone with him is. Are toe shoes a Sovereign Citizen thing?

17

See, that’s how you create joinder.

18

Apart from everything, it looks as if they hold to a fascinating interpretation of the establishment of the “legal person” concept vis-a-vis corporate entities, where some elements in the wack community conclude then it must mean that therefore THAT is the only meaning of “person” to whom the laws apply, entirely divorcing legal from natural individual personhood. So this is where all this about corporations being persons leads… to people not wanting to be persons??? Huh?

19

No, that’s not where corporate personhood leads. The sovereign citizen movement would be quite contentedly and ignorantly spewing their idiocy without the concept of corporate personhood.

20

Yeah, I noticed that, too. But it was the younger kid (brother?) with him that was the other person wearing toe shoes, not his mother.

Which leads me to how (even though I admit to some schadenfreude watching him get tazed) I can’t help but try to feel some sympathy for the poor deluded kid. To be that indoctrinated into the freeman stupidity so young, I imagine that he had to have been raised that way, or else why would his mother be going along with it? If he was also home-schooled, it’s not that surprising he has no idea how the real world works.