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Old 11-12-2016, 12:11 AM
Dale Sams is offline
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Clinton is a war criminal and Obama also, and a murderer to boot.


Though everything in this short post is true I'm putting this in BBQ cause I respect the SD. In short

Clinton: War criminal (voted for Iraq war, culpability for Libya debacle)
Obama : War criminal (Libya debacle)
Murderer (literally conspiricy to murder for ordering the assasination of American citizens including an innocent 16 year old. Also the authorization of bombing of funerals, weddings and first responders -double tap-drone attacks)

Maybe Trump won't have the stomach for killing people. It's not for everyone.
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:27 AM
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I'm sure other posters will be along in a little while to dig into the meat of your posts, but I thought I'd point out that war crimes are pretty much always committed against people on the other side of a conflict.
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:33 AM
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I'm sure other posters will be along in a little while to dig into the meat of your posts, but I thought I'd point out that war crimes are pretty much always committed against people on the other side of a conflict.
You mean it's impossible to commit a war crime against someone you arn't at war with? You may have a good point on the Libya thing there. I think the voting for the Iraq conflict may have more legs. Others have been convicted or at least put on trial for similar gestures.
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:36 AM
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You mean it's impossible to commit a war crime against someone you arn't at war with? You may have a good point on the Libya thing there. I think the voting for the Iraq conflict may have more legs. Others have been convicted or at least put on trial for similar gestures.
Do you intend to try every Congresscritter who voted for the resolution?
Including the VP-Elect?

Or is Clinton somehow special?
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:38 AM
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Ummm....... Double Tap!

I'd have a Sierra Nevada Torpedo on one and a Great Basin Wild Horse on the other!

[Drool]Arrrrrgh![/Drool]

Last edited by Gatopescado; 11-12-2016 at 12:39 AM. Reason: I assumed you were going to expose her cheating at Battleship with her granddaughter
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:39 AM
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Do you intend to try every Congresscritter who voted for the resolution?
Including the VP-Elect?

Or is Clinton somehow special?
I'm not trying anyone. And yes, as the presidential runner-up she's special. And you make a good point about Pence in regards to Trump. As I've said, Trump never signed a paper killing people. Maybe he won't have the stomach for it. Could you??

"Mr. President, I need authorization to blow up this village, there are high profile targets there. We estimate ONLY 10 babies will be slaughtered."
  #7  
Old 11-12-2016, 12:48 AM
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OP, maybe you should just say this:

workers of the world: UNITE!
  #8  
Old 11-12-2016, 12:56 AM
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I'm not trying anyone. And yes, as the presidential runner-up she's special. And you make a good point about Pence in regards to Trump. As I've said, Trump never signed a paper killing people. Maybe he won't have the stomach for it. Could you??

"Mr. President, I need authorization to blow up this village, there are high profile targets there. We estimate ONLY 10 babies will be slaughtered."
Of course, the other question is why you don't consider Bush and Cheney war criminals. They actually did go to war.
The resolution specified several escalating steps before war which they cheerfully ignored.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:13 AM
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Of course, the other question is why you don't consider Bush and Cheney war criminals. They actually did go to war.
The resolution specified several escalating steps before war which they cheerfully ignored.
Did i say they wern't? Is this assuming and pigeonholing ALL that goes on down here? So boring...
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:24 AM
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Did i say they wern't? Is this assuming and pigeonholing ALL that goes on down here? So boring...
It's a valid point - if you're claiming that Clinton and Obama are war criminals by the criteria you described, it's fair to mention that the same criteria could also apply to dozens if not hundreds of others.

Now, if your TRUE point is that maybe things will get more peaceful because the new president-elect may not be willing or able to use the American military in ways the current (and past?) administration has, then... I dunno. Trump has certainly talked about retaliatory bombings against the families of terrorists, and he didn't exclude babies, but we don't really know what he'll do because he's never held any kind of public office or military position before.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:39 AM
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Did i say they wern't? Is this assuming and pigeonholing ALL that goes on down here? So boring...
So everyone was guilty but you only want to arrest the Democrats.

If you don't want to be pigeonholed, stop putting yourself inside one.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:45 AM
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I bet Trump's super sekrit plan for ISIS is to shower them with kisses.

This is dumber than a derekmichaels thread.
  #13  
Old 11-12-2016, 02:13 AM
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Trump has openly advocated for war crimes, such as torture (even if it doesn't work), something worse than waterboarding (it's a surprise I guess), and killing civilian family members of terrorists. He's also implied, IIRC, that America should basically carpet bomb ISIS held cities.

Who was the last president who wasn't a war criminal? I think it was Chomsky who's known for saying every post-WWII president could be prosecuted by the Nuremberg principles, if we were consistent. Some of them might be a stretch, but I haven't gone through every one in detail. If giving large quantities of weapons or money to a regime that's massacring a population is a war crime then I could see that checking out.

Has any democratic legislature ever faced mass war crime charges? For Iraq, I could see charging Bush, Cheney, several cabinet positions (I'm to understand some avoid certain countries for fear of arrest), but Congress? I think most of them could claim ignorance of the intelligence and the nature of the threat. Or, like Hillary did, say they were only giving a tool to the Bush admin to use if Hussein didn't comply with UN resolutions. Iraq complied, but Bush went ahead anyway.
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Old 11-12-2016, 02:41 AM
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Maybe Trump could avoid potential war-criminal activity if ordered the withdrawal of American forces from everywhere.

Plus he might want them on U.S. soil if the 2020 election doesn't go his way is rigged.
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Old 11-12-2016, 03:27 AM
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It's a valid point - if you're claiming that Clinton and Obama are war criminals by the criteria you described, it's fair to mention that the same criteria could also apply to dozens if not hundreds of others.

Now, if your TRUE point is that maybe things will get more peaceful because the new president-elect may not be willing or able to use the American military in ways the current (and past?) administration has, then... I dunno. Trump has certainly talked about retaliatory bombings against the families of terrorists, and he didn't exclude babies, but we don't really know what he'll do because he's never held any kind of public office or military position before.
I bring it up cause...as others have said...Trump is a guy who one day was on a reality show and now will have generals shoving maps in his face and saying "If we send in 100 guys we can expect minimal civilian losses and casualties!"

Trump: "I just was looking for more tail..."
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Old 11-12-2016, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
I bring it up cause...as others have said...Trump is a guy who one day was on a reality show and now will have generals shoving maps in his face and saying "If we send in 100 guys we can expect minimal civilian losses and casualties!"

Trump: "I just was looking for more tail..."
Yes... something like that might happen, but the negative response would be swift and considerable the first time an American city or an American diplomatic outpost is attacked and Trump is too befuddled to militarily respond. One of those generals will reach retirement age and likely be glad to make the final chapters of his memoirs about the astonishing incompetence of the last president he served under. There must be at least one such general who was involved in the mission to get Bin Laden and who has a relatively positive view about Obama and/or Clinton, and would view Trump in sharply negative contrast.
  #17  
Old 11-12-2016, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
I bring it up cause...as others have said...Trump is a guy who one day was on a reality show and now will have generals shoving maps in his face and saying "If we send in 100 guys we can expect minimal civilian losses and casualties!"

Trump: "I just was looking for more tail..."
He's also a guy who won the nomination by saying he'd go after the families of terrorists. That wondered why the US isn't using it's atomic weapons. That says he'll expand the law so waterboarding becomes "legal" and that he'll take any general that refuses such illegal orders to court.

He's only "not a war criminal" due to lack of opportunity and he's not picking cabinet members with lily white hands and love in their hearts.

And here's a peach where he keeps going on about how the intervention in Libya would have been much better if it also included taking half their oil: Why does nobody know about Trump's vlog?
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Old 11-12-2016, 03:56 AM
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Voting to go to war cannot ever remotely be a war crime, as it would prevent democracy from functioning. Going to war is not what a war crime is. Furthermore, attacking your military adversaries who are trying to kill you has never once been considered murder.

This is just a pathetic attempt to get our goats. That's how much you "respect" the SDMB. You wanted to get your jollies watching everyone get angry. If you wanted a real discussion, you'd have posted somewhere where it could possibly happen, not trying to tempt people into attacking you.

You just so desperately need someone else to blame for what happened. Probably with your help.
  #19  
Old 11-12-2016, 04:00 AM
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Wait, we were supposed to get angry at the OP? I thought we were at most bemused.
  #20  
Old 11-12-2016, 05:42 AM
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This is dumber than a derekmichaels thread.

I did not think that was humanly possible.
  #21  
Old 11-12-2016, 06:57 AM
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Wait, we were supposed to get angry at the OP? I thought we were at most bemused.
I'm slightly bemused by the join date. He seems so much younger!

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This is dumber than a derekmichaels thread.
Ouch.
  #22  
Old 11-12-2016, 08:08 AM
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"Mr. President, I need authorization to blow up this village, there are high profile targets there. We estimate ONLY 10 babies will be slaughtered."
Sure, but one of the babies is baby Hitler!!!

Last edited by kayaker; 11-12-2016 at 08:12 AM.
  #23  
Old 11-12-2016, 08:13 AM
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Arguably every president and/or VP for the last few decades has been a criminal. I don't even need to go into what the Bush administration did, but under Clinton the rendition program started with both Clinton & Gore knowing it, and that violated both domestic and international law.

Reagan had Iran Contra and a bunch of other scandals, etc.

So the issue isn't will Trump be a criminal. Every US president breaks the law. The fear is that Trump is so emotionally unhinged, thin skinned, sociopathic and vengeful that he will be a criminal the likes of which we haven't seen in modern history.

I made a mention in another thread that when Cheney was VP, he was the head of an international death squad. Delta force and CIA SOG soldiers would travel around the world and kill terrorists. Personally, I don't mind this much because Cheney was using them to kill terrorists, either way the program may never have been truly operational on a large scale.

We just put the guy who called for '2nd amendment remedies' to deal with his domestic political opposition in charge of things like that.

The Trump presidency will be a very strong test of how reliable our checks and balances are. Congress, the judiciary, the media, the public, states and city government, overseas governments, etc.

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 11-12-2016 at 08:17 AM.
  #24  
Old 11-12-2016, 08:58 AM
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Did i say they wern't? Is this assuming and pigeonholing ALL that goes on down here? So boring...
Funny how quickly you got bored when your stupidity was pointed out to you.

Must happen to you quite often.
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Though everything in this short post is true I'm putting this in BBQ cause I respect the SD. In short

Clinton: War criminal (voted for Iraq war, culpability for Libya debacle)
Obama : War criminal (Libya debacle)
Murderer (literally conspiricy to murder for ordering the assasination of American citizens including an innocent 16 year old. Also the authorization of bombing of funerals, weddings and first responders -double tap-drone attacks)

Maybe Trump won't have the stomach for killing people. It's not for everyone.
I suspect Clinton jaywalked at one time too and I have it on the highest authority that Obama still has an unreturned library book from the 70s.

Seriously, you need to exercise your brain a little more (if you can find it, that is).
  #26  
Old 11-12-2016, 10:12 AM
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I'm not trying anyone. And yes, as the presidential runner-up she's special. And you make a good point about Pence in regards to Trump. As I've said, Trump never signed a paper killing people. Maybe he won't have the stomach for it. Could you??

"Mr. President, I need authorization to blow up this village, there are high profile targets there. We estimate ONLY 10 babies will be slaughtered."
I remember during one of the debates, he mentioned how stupid it was to give advance notice of bombings. It was explained that notice was given so that innocents could get out of the way. He was adamant that no notice should be given before bombing.

So, I guess your guy has no problem killing innocent people.

Troll.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:33 AM
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I remember during one of the debates, he mentioned how stupid it was to give advance notice of bombings. It was explained that notice was given so that innocents could get out of the way. He was adamant that no notice should be given before bombing.

So, I guess your guy has no problem killing innocent people.

Troll.
Who is your guy? Jackass. Stupid jackass at that for ASSuming.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:34 AM
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I suspect Clinton jaywalked at one time too and I have it on the highest authority that Obama still has an unreturned library book from the 70s.

Seriously, you need to exercise your brain a little more (if you can find it, that is).
Yeah...murdering 16 year olds...jaywalking...same thing. Hell, I'd settle for you getting ANY type of exercise Jabba.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:38 AM
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Yeah...murdering 16 year olds...jaywalking...same thing. Hell, I'd settle for you getting ANY type of exercise Jabba.
First brain exercise, gratis. Learning to recognize sarcasm from fact.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:47 AM
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First brain exercise, gratis. Learning to recognize sarcasm from fact.
:<...i sowwy. My bad,
  #31  
Old 11-12-2016, 10:53 AM
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Voting to go to war cannot ever remotely be a war crime, as it would prevent democracy from functioning. Going to war is not what a war crime is. Furthermore, attacking your military adversaries who are trying to kill you has never once been considered murder.

This is just a pathetic attempt to get our goats. That's how much you "respect" the SDMB. You wanted to get your jollies watching everyone get angry. If you wanted a real discussion, you'd have posted somewhere where it could possibly happen, not trying to tempt people into attacking you.

You just so desperately need someone else to blame for what happened. Probably with your help.
So one of you is accusing me of supporting Clinton and another is accusing me of supporting Trump. Man, "Straight Dope" indeed.

As for your assertions, yes...droning a 16 year old American citizen is a crime. It is murder. Bombing funerals and rescue workers is a crime. And did you just say going to war is not a war crime??


Oh son...get thee to a library. Look up Nuremberg.
  #32  
Old 11-12-2016, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Who is your guy? Jackass. Stupid jackass at that for ASSuming.

Oh dunno, maybe I assumed because of this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams
As I've said, Trump never signed a paper killing people. Maybe he won't have the stomach for it
I guess he would have the stomach for it.

If he's not your guy, then I apologize, but it certainly sounded like it.
  #33  
Old 11-12-2016, 01:35 PM
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Oh dunno, maybe I assumed because of this:



I guess he would have the stomach for it.

If he's not your guy, then I apologize, but it certainly sounded like it.
No prob...the "Maybe he doesn't have the stomach for it" was more of a hopeful thing. I mean there's a big difference between firing people and killing them. But as others have pointed out his rhetoric sure makes it seem like he's capable of doing it.

And my apologies for the name calling.
  #34  
Old 11-12-2016, 01:51 PM
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No prob...the "Maybe he doesn't have the stomach for it" was more of a hopeful thing. I mean there's a big difference between firing people and killing them. But as others have pointed out his rhetoric sure makes it seem like he's capable of doing it.
Were you.... unaware of Trump's campaign style?
  #35  
Old 11-12-2016, 03:10 PM
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...

Maybe Trump won't have the stomach for killing people. It's not for everyone.
Trump will be too busy grabbing all the interns by their pussy.
  #36  
Old 11-12-2016, 06:15 PM
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So boring...
It really is. You should stop.
  #37  
Old 11-12-2016, 11:20 PM
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Do you intend to try every Congresscritter who voted for the resolution?
Including the VP-Elect?

Or is Clinton somehow special?
Only the Democrats I bet. The Repubs who bought in, AND the Repub Neocons who lied us into war will get a pass. I guarandamntee it.

Interesting switch, from "support our war or get the fuck out".

Last edited by SteveG1; 11-12-2016 at 11:20 PM.
  #38  
Old 11-14-2016, 11:46 AM
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Trump will be too busy grabbing all the interns by their pussy.
Do White House interns all share one or something?
  #39  
Old 11-14-2016, 12:10 PM
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Historically, mostly only the losers of a conflict are found guilty of war crimes. The winners are generally considered to be heroes. There are exceptions, of course, such as the infamous Lt. Calley of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam. The OP is a pointless exercise.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:50 PM
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Sure, but one of the babies is baby Hitler!!!
Vermin Supreme was the only candidate who had a plan to go back in time and kill baby Hitler.
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