John Irving

Cafe Society
1

My resolution this year was to read all of John Irving’s books. I had read A Prayer For Owen Meany a few years ago, and though I found it dense and somewhat…unsettling, I still liked it.

So far this year, I’ve read:

The Hotel New Hampshire
The Cider House Rules
Son of the Circus
A Widow For One Year
The World According to Garp
The 158-Pund Marriage
Trying to Save Piggy Sneed
The Water Method Man,
and A Prayer For Owen Meany again.

Overall, I enjoy Irving’s work. Garp was my favorite, although The Cider House Rules appealed to me for sentimental reasons (“I love nothing and no one as much as I love Homer Wells.”) But at the same time, I find his work deeply disturbing. The scene in Garp in the driveway, for instance, when the family is injured. And the incest in The Hotel New Hampshire. On one hand, I think Irving creates beautiful, incredibly realistic and dynamic characters who become human with each passing page. But at the same time, he presents situations that are so perverse, so outlandish, in such a regular tone. Incest? No more important than Lilly becoming a writer. I am often touched, even changed, after reading his works - in the same way that I felt new after I read Sophie’s Choice by William Styron or Look Homeward, Angel by Thomas Wolfe. But I am unsettled as well. Is it because his characters are so real, it’s shocking to be exposed to their innermost thoughts and perversions? Or is it his language?

I’ve tried to analyze why I love him; mostly, it’s his writing style. His language is straightforward, to the point. He writes about Frannie and John having sex or Walt dying or Jenny’s conception of Garp as if it’s normal, expected. But when it matters, he can form a phrase that takes my breath away. I love that command of language, which is rare, I think: the ability to shock, to give the unexpected, and do it beautifully. Irving never wastes words to goes off on tangents, which I appreciate; his concise writings allows his plots to move and gain momentum freely. His plots are certainly heavy, and yet so realistic. Deeply loved characters dying, suicide, the idea fleeting fame and wealth, fate - I can relate to these topics.

His books are long, which has led some of my friends to find him daunting, but I’ve read four of the above books two or more times. I keep coming back to them; I keep wanting to dive back into the plots and become lost in them. I still want to understand Jenny Fields better; I firmly believe there is more for me to know about
Ruth and Garp and Irving himself.

This brings me to another point: I always feel Irving in the work, though he never intrudes on the narrative. He isn’t preachy and he doesn’t give lessons (unless “We are all terminal cases” counts as one), but I sense him nonetheless. I can’t explain this to well, I guess. I’m just very aware of what he is trying to say, what he wants to convey to me as a reader, what he is struggling with on the page. This is somewhat disturbing as well. Anyone else feel this way?

Mostly, I’m curious as to what other Dopers think of Irving. Is he passe? Do you love him, hate him, and why, why why? What’s your favorite Irving book? Why? Where do you rank him among other contemporary authors?

2

I’m really really mixed on Irving. I think that Owen Meany is one of the greatest novels of the 20th century. I also think Garp could’ve been, but it was just a little too … much.

I hated A Widow for One Year. It was going well until halfway through, when the main character witnesses the murder in Amsterdam. That came from nowhere, and the rest of the novel suffered from it.

Of the Irving novels I’ve read, only New Hampshire doesn’t affect me one way or another. I liked it, and that was it.

Owen Meany’s the one for me.

3

I agree that A Prayer for Owen Meany will likely be remembered as one of the great novels of the 20th Century. I adore that book, and was very disappointed by the pseudo-adaptation done for the movie version. None of his other books affected me as much as this one did.

That said, I liked The World According to Garp, but was baffled by A Son of the Circus. I’m not sure what Irving was writing about in that one.

Thumbs up for The Cider House Rules.

The Hotel New Hampshire didn’t really click with me. I didn’t dislike it, but I didn’t love it either.

I haven’t read A Widow for One Year, but will as soon as it comes out in mass-market paperback.

I think part of his success is that his books read almost like biographies. Oftentimes you are taken through a character’s entire lifespan, as was the case with Garp and Owen Meany, and you can see how the adult version of that character was shaped by incidents in childhood. The characters are so fully realized that I felt like I knew them as well as I could know anybody. Few authors accomplish that with a character for me.

4

For me, the top three are Hotel New Hampshire, A Prayer for Owen Meany, and then Garp. I’ve never been able to get through the others I’ve tried to read.

I recently read My Movie Business: A Memoir. The book is mostly the story of getting The Cider House Rules made into a movie. Lots of interesting stuff, but what really surprised me was that he said he always knows the entire story when he starts writing so that he can focus on the sentences.

This surprised me because I find that most authors that focus on writing pretty sentences tend to forget they’re telling a story; and Irving tells stories. The characters develop, grow, and go places you would never expect.

The reason I put Hotel New Hampshire at the top of the list is because I am amazed at how farcical it becomes at times without ever seeming fake or betraying the characters. Owen Meany will always be one of the most moving books I’ve ever read (as an atheist, it made me look at faith in new lights). Garp will always be remembered for the events that surrounded my reading it.

So far, nothing else has connected with me, but I keep hoping.

5

John Irving’s got this bag of themes, and he shakes the bag up and scatters the themes on the floor and writes a book. Then he puts them back in the bag and does it again. How many books can you read about wrestlers, orphans, circus bears, and shooting victims?

He’s a really enjoyable read, but I’m not sure if he really has anything to say.

6

Kyomara: I agree with you up until the last half of your last sentence :slight_smile: . He DOES seem to repeat himself a lot, as in fact most moderately prolific writers have a tendency to do. For example most of Irving’s more successful books are essentially “coming of age” stories that terminate in early middle-age. But I do believe he has things to say. It just may be that at this point he’s said them all :wink: . Actually, one of the reasons I’m fond of Cider House Rules in particular, compared to some of his other books, is because I thought it was a little more coherent and focused. It had perhaps a little more to say than usual.

I’ve largely lost my taste for his stuff these days, but I still think he’s a fine writer and deserving of the praise he has received. I suppose for me, Garp and Owen Meany are still his best, with Cider House trailing right behind. The Hotel New Hampshire was a chaotic mess, with some redeeming weirdness :slight_smile: .

  • Tamerlane
7

Now that we have all the Irving fans lined up; Anyone read The fourth hand??
I’ve been on the verge of buying it a few times at Amazon, but the reviews aren’t very positive, so I’d like some more opinions.
I really Irvings narative style, something that’s not very common nowadays. An other author with a similiar style is Robertson Davies, who sadly died about five years ago, but wrote wonderful stories, such as The Debtford trilogy and The Cornish trilogy, the latter of which reminded me a lot of Owen Meany.

8

I’m so thrilled this thread has been started - I was planning to the exact same thing in the next few days. John Irving is possibly my favourite author and I’m currently re-re-reading A Prayer For Owen Meany again. I don’t have time for a long post right now, but I’ll be back later. Woo!

9

I’m a big fan of Irving. Like most, I started with “Owen Meany” (loved it), and moved on to “The Cider House Rules” (hated the movie, loved the book). I’ve read “Garp” and “Hotel New Hampshire” (how similar are these two?), and listened to “The Water-Method Man” on tape.

“The Water-Method Man” turned me off. It was a bit too woeful, and hit me from the wrong angle. However, one of my alltime favorite words came from that book - “Boobloop”.

I did read “Widow For a Year” and got back into Irving, and am waiting to read “Fourth Hand”.

Sorry if this is disconjuncted, I’m at work, and just wanted to chime in.

10

The two Irving books I enjoy the most are Owen Meany and Son of the Circus.

I should start out by saying that I am a little perplexed by critics who put Irving in the “very best authors of the century” category. I agree that Owen Meany is a contender for “one of the very best books of the century” but that novel stands out head and shoulders above the overall body of Irving’s work.

One of the things I like about Irving is what obfusciatrist said about Hotel New Hampshire, that his characters are so over the top and yet they still seem real and believable. I think Irving (or what I’m getting from his work, at any rate) is very successful at focusing a magnifying glass on a seemingly average character and revealing that person’s life as being made up of any number of strange and coincidental events. I am intrigued by the idea that one could do that to almost anyone – that we can look at our own lives and families and come up with some “truth is stranger than fiction” themes.

At the same time, after reading a number of his books, I want to say “OK, now what?” I think this is going beyond repetition, which I don’t have a problem with. At this point, Irving is still milking the quirky cow, and I’d be more interested to read an Irving novel that was about people without so much surreal baggage attached. I’ve noticed that when I read an Irving novel, I’m so used to all the strange and bizarre tidbits and happenings that nothing really surprises me. I rarely feel emotional or satisfied about any of the resolutions in the books, because they usually feel like just one more oddball occurance in a never-ending chain. (I don’t think this is true of Owen Meany, which is why I feel it is so much better than the rest of his work).

11

Owen Meany is really in my top three favorite books of all time. It was HEARTWRENCHING, and I felt it DID have a lot to say. John was a disciple of a “christ” figure and became sort of bitter and angry that no one could see the greatness of Owen like he did. I cried like an f-ing baby at the end of that book.
I have not made it through Hotel New Hampshire, simply because I can’t take it! I can’t take John Irving ripping my heart out and stomping it to death (Egg and Mom). I don’t have the emotional energy right now! :slight_smile:

But a note on A Widow For One Year. I think you MUST be a writer to enjoy this book. I was engrossed in the thought processes of creating a story and developing it (going to Amsterdam, visiting Delores), and to me that was more exciting than the rest of the book.

I haven’t read Cider House Rules, because my husband has warned me that the ‘abortion scenes’ are pretty frighteningly graphic, and I know if it’s john irving, I’ll be tremndously moved.

That said, I can’t wait to read The Fourth Hand. I love John Irving.

12

I didn’t expect so many responses, but it’s wonderful to know how many of you read Irving as well.

Owen Meany will always be a book I return to, I think, because every time I read it, I find something new. It’s enjoyment is strangely connected to events in my life, unlike any other book I’ve read. Whatever is going on in my life when I read it takes on new meaning, new significance. And it always, always affects my feelings toward faith, fate, and destiny. Whenever I read some sort of God plateau, wherein I’m not really thinking about religion or faith at all, I read Owen Meany and start analyzing my faith again. This is extremely unusual for me as a reader; most books are entertaining, or thought-provoking, but not on a long-term level.

Garp was a revelation for me. The parts that were biographical (maybe two-thirds) were finely written and entertaining, but certain parts led me to new ideas, new beliefs, new knowledge about being an adult and having peace, success, and happiness. After the driveway incident, after Walt dies and the family would seemingly fall apart, that Garp and Helen still love each other and remain married was a big shocker, certainly different from my personal experiance. The line (somewhat paraphrased, as I don’t have the book handy) “I don’t blame you, and I don’t blame me - in this we can be whole again” was extremely moving for me. When Garp mourns Walt and says “I mish him!” - for me, this was honest, bare emotion. It made me think about fatherhood (what it means to be a father, how it differs from motherhood) and parenting in general - how parents are connected and seperate from their children, and for what reasons.

Hotel New Hampshire was shocking. The incest, Mother and Egg dying, Lilly’s suicide, Franny’s rape and later revenge - shock after shock. I didn’t find much beauty in it, either, for the presentation of this plotlines was unexceptional, as I said in the OP: “Franny and I made love all afternoon; Lilly just wasn’t big enough.” I somehow expected more passion from the characters. Nonetheless, they were all startingly real. I don’t love the book, but I love the characters; I love how they all go on and keep fighting; and I love the end, the part about how we imagine our lives as quickly as the dreams dissipate.

Son of the Circus was interesting - I really think I need to read it again before I can offer analysis, though. I’m not as fluent in it s I am the others.

The top three I wrote of are my favorites, the ones I keep reading again and again. Overall, I think this is because irving has an entirely unique voice. Dickens is the only author I can compare to him, although there are a lot fo writers left for me to read. In this century, though, no one comes close to Irving, IMHO. He may rehash old plot lines, but his voice and his plots themselves, as compared to other novelists, are unbelievably original.

I have to run to my 1:00 class now (Literary Analysis, go figure) but am excited to read what else you all have to say.

BTW, on an unofficial Irving fan page, Owen Meany was voted best book by a landslide, so it’s certainly widely thought of as his best work.

13

Yup. Let me be the first to say it. I have read it. Enjoyed it, as it is a pretty quick read (for Irving, anyway). Only 318 pages, about 200 - 250 less than Owen Meany and Son of the Circus. Once again, a case of realistic characters in unrealistic circumstances.

Let there be no doubt. Irving is my favorite author, and has been since Garp. I have a goal of owning everything that he has written in hardcover. I still need the first three novels (Setting Free the Bears, The Water-Method Man and The 158-Pound Marriage) and Owen Meany and the collection will be complete. (I think it’s time for a trip to Seattle to hit a used bookstore!)

My favorites are probably Owen Meany, Cider House Rules and Son of the Circus. I originally had a hard time getting into Circus, but it grew on me, especially the second time around.

The hardest for me to get into was Setting Free the Bears.

14

Wow, thanks guys.

I haven’t read Irving in years. I remember reading Garp and Hotel New Hampshire back in high school, and I’ve seen those movies, but I guess I kinda lost track of the man.

Owen Meaney is on order, can’t wait for the experience.

15

That’s the reason I quit reading Irving - I can’t forgive him for killing Egg. He killed him and then let me know he did it largely because he could. He was the all-powerful author and could manipulate my feelings as easily as he could manipulate his characters.

Yeah, great, I admire the art but I’m not going to put myself in that position again, thank you very much. Bastard. Talented bastard, it’s true, but still - bastard.

16

Nacho4Sara, my opinions about Irving books are pretty much like yours. I pick up the book, I read a little, he shocks the pants off me, I put down the book, I come back to it again, and can’t seem to stop reading, in spite of how uncomfortable he makes me some times. I only have one test for a good author; does he make me keep on reading? By my standards, John Irving is a good author. I’m never sure when I finish one of his books whether I liked it or not, but he keeps me hooked until the last page.

Son of the Circus is the last JI book I read (finished it last year), and it still bounces around in my head a little. The way he puts his characters in odd situations where they have odd reactions and like/dislike odd things is always so…odd. He can’t seem to write cliched characters or situations. Maybe that’s why his books are so fascinating.

17

I loved A Widow for One Year.

I’ve given away my copy of Owen Meany so many times it’s probably in China by now. Jarbaby, I like what you said about the “embittered disciple of a Christ figure” - his messiah leaves him and NOW what is he supposed to do? I’ve always seen it as a portrait of America’s loss of innocence. Owen Meany’s refusal to believe that JFK could be diddling Marilyn Monroe and his idealism comes across as “cute” to us because we’re so past the point where we believe in our leaders as men of principles. And he shows how the Vietnam war was part of stripping that innocence away, ending up in the Reagan years where no one can even pay attention to the lies of the president and morally shady interventions overseas.

18

Add my name to the list of folks who adored Owen Meany. I have given it to quite a few people as a present. Of course, no one seems to love it as much as I do, except for you fine folks, of course. :smiley:

I’ve also read a few other of his novels and while I’ve enjoyed them tremendously, Owen Meany is definitely in a league of its own.

19

Actually, they really aren’t graphic at all. Now that I have more time (sorry for all the typos in the last post!) I can write about Cider House Rules.

For me, the most moving aspect of the book is the father-son relationship between Larch and Homer. Nothing I’ve ever read seems as honest, moving, touching, and true as the dynamic between them. I love that Larch shoves Homer out the door with Candy and Wally (unlike the movie, wherein he wants Homer to stay.) I love that despite Larch’s love for Homer, he still wants him to live and experiance life outside the orphanage. There are several moments that I will never, ever forget: the first fatherly kiss, the “I love nothing and no one as much as I love Homer Wells” line, when Angel and Rose Rose have their little romance, and the last three or four pages. “There is nothing wrong with Homer Wells’s heart.” I adore that line.

I also appreciate how Larch’s History narrates the whole novel and adds another dimension to the story. The character of St. Larch is so wonderful: he is as real as my mom, or my brother, to me. Despite his generosity and devotion, though, he never descends into cheesiness - he never becomes the old silly grandfather figure. Because of his ether addiction and the whole “rhymes with Eames” debacle, we know that he is not perfect, but his good qualities far outweigh the bad. He is the sort of man I would like to have had for a father.

Finally, the ending kicks absolute ass. All of Irving’s endings do: they never rehash old plot, they never simply catalogue where each character is in life. Irving seems to let loose a theme on the last page of every book that has been weaved somewhat throughout, and thus ties the book up in a big bow without ever sounding trite.

I too liked Widow because of the insight into Ruth’s life as a writer. Although I agree that the plot twists off halfway through. And that Ruth’s mom returns is just a little too neat for me.

I cannot wait to buy The Fourth Hand, as soon as I get my loan refund check in a few weeks.

20

I, too, have spent a lot of time analyzing just what it is about Irving that appeals to me so. First of all, it’s the impact The World According to Garp had on me when I first came to it. As I think someone mentioned, about Widow for One Year, this is a book to be savored by writers and reading it convinced me that I, too, could join these simmering and seething ranks. Reading about Garp instantly made me see that writing could be an interesting profession.

Not that I have enough imagination to sustain even a short story. (Which is why I became a reporter/now educational television writer, I suppose). But anyway, Irving’s love of language lept off the page for me. Even today, I can rarely use a semicolon without thinking of him.

Garp led me to Irving’s other works, all of which I’ve read except Son of the Circus (tried once and it left me cold; I was depressed for a week) and The Fourth Hand. I’ve been licking my chops in anticipation for a while now.

Which is why I’d like to suggest, in response to a thread started by someone suggesting on online reading club of CAMUS for heaven’s sake, that** we Irving devotees join hands and read his latest together.**

I’ve read books with people online before, with mixed results. Usually it’s difficult to get everyone to buy it and actually read it at the same time. But it’s wonderful to be reading someone you love with others who feel the same, so I’m interesting in seeing if the rest of you would like to give it a go.