#1  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:38 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Love is overrated

Some things I came across when I was wondering about love:

There is love, and it is a deep thing
but there are deeper things than love.
First and last, man is alone.
He is born alone, and alone he dies
and alone he is while he lives, in his deepest self.
Love, like the flowers, is life, growing.
But underneath are the deep rocks, the living rock that lives
alone
and deeper still the unknown fire, unknown and heavy, heavy
and alone.
Love is a thing of twoness.
But underneath any twoness, man is alone.
And underneath the great turbulent emotions of love, the
violent herbage,
lies the living rock of a single creature’s pride,
the dark, naif pride.
And deeper even than the bedrock of pride
lies the ponderous fire of naked life
with its strange primordial consciousness of justice
and its primordial consciousness of connection,
connection with still deeper, still more terrible life-fire
and the old, old final life-truth.
Love is of twoness, and is lovely
like the living life on the earth
but below all roots of love lies the bedrock of naked pride,
subterranean,
and deeper than the bedrock of pride is the primordial fire of
the middle
which rests in connection with the further forever unknowable
fire of all things
and which rocks with a sense of connection, religion
and trembles with a sense of truth, primordial consciousness
and is silent with a sense of justice, the fiery primordial
imperative.
All this is deeper than love.



Followed by this remark I heard in regards to whether or not love is an illusion:

Very much so, you know.

Everything around you is an illusion in fact. For example, if you are one light year away from the earth and you see the earth, you see events from one year ago. So what does that mean? Every event is so unreal that our perception of stuff mattering is almost comical.

One more thing is what love are we talking about here? Is it love towards the immortal stuff like music, science and art? or are we talking boy-girl love here?

First, let me come to the latter part

Human beings are fickle.

It is said in Bhagavad Gita


“canchalam hi manah Krishna
pramathi balavad drdham
tasyaham nigraham manye
vayor iva su-duskaram”

(Translation - Oh Krishna, the mind is fickle, turbulent , obstinate and restless. To control it seems more difficult than controlling a full blown storm)

Arjun mentions a problem that we have all faced at some point in our lives. We just cannot control our mind. One minute, I’m thinking of focussing on work and the next minute, here I am on Quora answering random questions. How many days have you procrastinated stuff? As Arjun mentioned, its easier to control a storm than to control the human brain.

This is the fickle mind that we are dealing with. It is just impossible to create a “real” bond between one such human mind and another….especially when one has choices in choosing another mind - that is, your love towards your mother can be true because , one can have only one mother…thus in fact your love is towards maternity than towards the mind of the mother itself…no one would love their mother if the mother wasn’t kind and loving….would you love your mother if she had harassed you verbally and physically as a kid? No…because, you love the concept of maternity..which is care…and not the human being, that is the mother itself.

Now coming to lovers, a person has more than one choice for another human being as a “lover”. Now he/she categorizes a lot before choosing one ....and that narrows it down to around a million rather than a billion choices. Now can we trust our fickle mind to bond “really” with another such fickle mind? The answer is no, the bond is not real. It is an illusion.

This illusion is created because we want it to be created. As things stand, no “normal” human being will like to admit that deep inside they are lonely. How much ever you claim to love a person, all the person can do is stand by and watch during some of your sufferings. Sure you’ll claim that him/her “being there for you” is a great sign….but no, its not a great sign…its a sign of weakness…if your mind is strong enough, you won’t need anyone to “be there for you”

Popularisation of idiotic things like mocking the guy who eats alone or mocking a guy who is single and forty years old in our sex-minded society is what has led to the popularisation of the concept of love. People want to believe that they have found their true lover….so that they aren’t “forty, single and eating alone”...

To sum it up - Love towards abstract things is ironically real…mainly because abstract things are a perception of one’s own mind…and hence your mind is totally attached to it.

Love towards “real” things is ironically an illusion…mainly because both of your minds are fickle


The second one makes me think about what we say when we love someone and contributes to me seeing it as more of an illusion than anything else. Because we don't really love some ONE but rather the traits they exhibit. Like what is said in regards to mothers, it is doubtful one would love a mother if she treated them cruelly. The traits that we exhibit aren't us either since if they were we would be that way all the time. It kind of blows a hole in my hopeful conception of what love is and makes it seem like more of an illusion than what science says about it.

The poem also raises a few concerns for me as well.
  #2  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:43 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Love isn't the most important thing, true - that would be air.

But love is fun, so there's that.
  #3  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:12 PM
jtur88 jtur88 is offline
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The two things you need in life are money, health and love -- any two will do, and make up for a shortfall in the third one. If you have money and health, you can get by fine without love. But if your health or your money are deficient, love will make up for it. If you have neither money nor health, it won't help much to have love.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-28-2018 at 06:13 PM.
  #4  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:21 PM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is offline
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Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Misspelled
  #5  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:24 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Love is a pro-social emotion we use to glue ourselves together so our interests overlap with others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-_Q8znGMRg

FWIW I'm 40, single and eating alone. It isn't bad.
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  #6  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:40 PM
WordMan WordMan is offline
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Love Stinks.
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:56 PM
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Love Stinks.
Love Hurts
  #8  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:01 PM
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Love Kills.
  #9  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:20 PM
Biotop Biotop is offline
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Love is only loneliness divided by another.
  #10  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:46 PM
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Love is the hardest thing.
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Look, and you will begin to see.
  #11  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:52 PM
blue infinity blue infinity is offline
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Love is a battlefield.
  #12  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:59 PM
snfaulkner snfaulkner is online now
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Friday I'm in love.
  #13  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:14 PM
Telemark Telemark is online now
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Love Shack
  #14  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:28 PM
naita naita is offline
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Me personally, I thought it was only true in fairy tales. Meant for someone else, but not for me.
  #15  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:32 PM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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It is a crazy little thing
  #16  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:05 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
Love isn't the most important thing, true - that would be air.

But love is fun, so there's that.
Love is like oxygen.
  #17  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:25 PM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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Love is like oxygen.
Obviously you have never been in love. Love makes you feel giddy, dizzy, euphoric, horny, irritable, morose and sometimes suicidal. Oxygen more or less makes you feel normal.
  #18  
Old 03-29-2018, 12:35 AM
Leaffan Leaffan is offline
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Love is a rose
but you better not pick it
It only grows when it's on the vine.
  #19  
Old 03-29-2018, 12:52 AM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Love is all you need.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 03-29-2018 at 12:53 AM.
  #20  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:51 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
Followed by this remark I heard in regards to whether or not love is an illusion:

Very much so, you know.

Everything around you is an illusion in fact. For example, if you are one light year away from the earth and you see the earth, you see events from one year ago. So what does that mean? Every event is so unreal that our perception of stuff mattering is almost comical.
Yes, but no.

Perception is the only reality we have - that doesn't make it unimportant or ridiculous. it's what we have.
  #21  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:55 AM
Isamu Isamu is offline
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Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
He is born alone, and alone he dies.
I'm taking some of you with me.

Love is higher then a mountain
Love is thicker than water
You are this dreamers only dream
Heaven's angel , devil's daughter
  #22  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:59 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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True love is the greatest thing, in the world-except for a nice MLT
  #23  
Old 03-29-2018, 02:10 AM
dba Fred dba Fred is offline
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(Sometimes) Love Is Only Sleeping
  #24  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
To sum it up - Love towards abstract things is ironically real…mainly because abstract things are a perception of one’s own mind…and hence your mind is totally attached to it.

Love towards “real” things is ironically an illusion…mainly because both of your minds are fickle
Taking a pause here for a sec - Machinaforce:

- Yes, within the context of Life is Suffering (Buddha, yes?) - Humans are frail, and Love is certainly with the scope of that.

- Folks are having fun in this thread because we all see how this is another version of your cyclical suffering threads. Because we all know we can't break your cycle, why not discuss how Love Bites?

- What's your point with this cycle of angst? "Love is Overrated"? Nah, "Love is an Illusion" is more cynically realistic - we all want to chase the butterfly - but the way Love carbonates our brains is not overrated, just too-frequently misguided.
  #25  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:14 AM
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“Love is a beautiful cycle of song, a medley of extemporanea.
Love is a thing that can never go wrong...
And I am the queen of Romania!” Dorothy Parker

If Love was labeled ‘Poison’, we’d drink it anyway, I think.
  #26  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:19 AM
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1) The biggest thing I learned when I took philosophy is that, mostly, it is a marathon of nonsense disguised as a word game.

2) There is nothing deeper than love. It brings out the greatest attributes in human kind; not being alone, not being angry, not hating, not anything but love.
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:32 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Regards,
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:08 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate.
  #29  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:18 AM
Dung Beetle Dung Beetle is offline
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Obviously you have never been in love. Love makes you feel giddy, dizzy, euphoric, horny, irritable, morose and sometimes suicidal. Oxygen more or less makes you feel normal.
You get too much, you get too high.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:21 AM
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Love is a pretty flower, that smells bad.
  #31  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:30 AM
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What is this thing called love?
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  #32  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:34 AM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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I thought love was Blue.
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:56 AM
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I've heard love is generally regarded in the following order: It is a river, a razor, a hunger, and then a flower. Your mileage may vary.

I was actually discussing women's status as according to the viewpoint endorsed by Jehovah's Witnesses with a person who is still active in that faith, whereas I, myself, left the fold many years ago. I told her that I left because fundamentalist faiths tends to treat women as inferior, i.e: "Be in subjection to your husband." I told her that, as a woman, I could not stand for that.

She told me that this was because men want respect from women, while women want love from men. She told me that if a woman gives respect to a man, he will give love to her. Since a woman wants and needs love more than respect, she is much happier in a subordinate position in marriage.

I thought about it, and replied, "You know, if I had to choose, I think I would much more want a man's respect, than his love."

And that is very true about me. Unfortunately, in my experience, I've had very little of either one.
  #34  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:31 AM
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Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate.
Yes, but, love is the sweetest thing, what else on earth could ever bring, such happiness to everything, as love's old story?
  #35  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:42 AM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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… She told me that this was because men want respect from women, while women want love from men. She told me that if a woman gives respect to a man, he will give love to her. Since a woman wants and needs love more than respect, she is much happier in a subordinate position in marriage.

I thought about it, and replied, "You know, if I had to choose, I think I would much more want a man's respect, than his love." … Unfortunately, in my experience, I've had very little of either one.
It is not unheard of to get both from one guy.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:17 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Love is never having to say you're sorry.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:24 PM
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Love is never having to say you're sorry.
Marriage, OTOH...
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Old 03-29-2018, 02:19 PM
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Love means praying for the end of time ...
  #39  
Old 03-29-2018, 02:58 PM
Kimballkid Kimballkid is offline
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Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate.
I love chocolate.
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:13 PM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is online now
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It is not unheard of to get both from one guy.
Well, if you'll tell me that one guy's name, I'll check him out. With my luck, he's already taken.
  #41  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:23 PM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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Love Bites (and so do I)
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:25 PM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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Well, if you'll tell me that one guy's name, I'll check him out. With my luck, he's already taken.
Oh, uh, his boyfriend asked me not to.
  #43  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:02 PM
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Love in Vain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVJrc51jdco

Love is NOT all you need. That is hipster BS. I wouldn't even call love "essential." Good health and a sense of justice are essential.

Love can be very nice. But it is always temporary.
  #44  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:09 PM
Maggie the Ocelot Maggie the Ocelot is offline
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Love is love is love is love is love is love is love is love cannot be killed or swept aside.
  #45  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:03 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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It is nonsensical to assert that love isn't real on the grounds that nothing is real. If nothing is real, why are you trying to convince other people that nothing is real?

If you really thought nothing mattered, why would you bother to do anything? You would care if you lived or died. So why do you care about convincing people that nothing matters?

If everything is meaningless, then meaninglessness itself is meaningless. We look around at the meaningless sky, earth, and human beings, and then shrug our shoulders and keep on keeping on, because why shouldn't we?

Last edited by Lemur866; 03-29-2018 at 07:05 PM.
  #46  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:17 PM
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If everything is meaningless, then meaninglessness itself is meaningless. We look around at the meaningless sky, earth, and human beings, and then shrug our shoulders and keep on keeping on, because why shouldn't we?
Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know.

-- Groucho Marx
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:33 PM
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I believe there oughta be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve. And I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

[/CDBD]
  #48  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:42 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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I doubt I have experienced true love, closest thing I have found is providing security in exchange for sex. You can get by fine on this. I think after a while they do kind of grow to love you but by that time you are kind of fed up with them and no longer interested in something deeper. My happiest days were spent alone.
  #49  
Old 03-29-2018, 09:02 PM
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You get too much, you get too high.
Not enough and you’re gonna die.
  #50  
Old 03-29-2018, 10:27 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Regards,
Shodan
I'm kind of expecting something serious here.

It's hard to view love as a powerful force for good when you see how many mistakes people make for it or because of it. I don't even think the unconditional nature of it even exists the way people want it too. There is always a string attached, because we love traits that a person exhibits not really the person. That's why the last bit about being in love with a concept seems to ring true.

I used to believe it was some ultimate good and positive force to strive for, but that seems more based on wishful thinking and less on it's actual reality.
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