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Old 06-08-2018, 11:24 AM
scaeva scaeva is offline
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Prevention of tick borne diseases

One of your recent questions dealt with someone's frustration over doing a tick-check after every walk in the woods. Your conclusion was that doing so was the best preventative, and I heartily agree. There is, however, a pleasant way to do this which has other health benefits:

Take a hot shower (or a dip in a really cold lake or river, followed by a sponge bath on shore.) Ticks are slow, and they tend to climb. Until firmly attached, they are relatively easy to remove—especially with soap and water, which make you slippery and hard to climb or hold on to. Shampoo has a similar effect on hair. Any unattached tick is likely to get rinsed down the drain (or into the hair screen if you have one.) In the process of washing, you will automatically do a very thorough tick-check.

Additionally, have a flea comb in the shower. Use this on lathered body hair or shampooed head hair. The lather makes it slide through the hair easily.

So you get to do two pleasant things: Walk in the woods/wild; and take a shower. Even a cold dip in a 40°F lake can make you feel very refreshed.

Sincerely,

The Old Hivernant.
  #2  
Old 06-08-2018, 12:04 PM
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Ike Witt Ike Witt is offline
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The Old Hivernant.
Are you Métis, by chance?
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:23 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Link to the article in question: "Do dogs have better protection from ticks than people do?"

I think even if ticks were disease free we'd still want to do tick checks ... they're harmful just on their own and nasty to boot ...

Of course anti-vaxxers, climate change and colliding galaxies have their part ... but if that Lyme disease vax was profitable you can bet a massive ad campaign to get everyone their shots ... and legislation requiring all school aged children get the full course or not be allowed to attend school ... but it's not profitable, so public health be damned, the company ain't gonna make it ...

How much of this increase in disease be associated with just more people living closer together? ...

Last edited by watchwolf49; 06-08-2018 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:22 PM
Melbourne Melbourne is offline
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I am glad to see a link. Yesterday and Today, using Chrome and Pale Moon, on different computers, the headline on the home page doesn't link to anything.

Further experimentation shows that the illustration is linked to the article, but that the headline is not.
  #5  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:05 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
Link to the article in question: "Do dogs have better protection from ticks than people do?"

I think even if ticks were disease free we'd still want to do tick checks ... they're harmful just on their own and nasty to boot ...

Of course anti-vaxxers, climate change and colliding galaxies have their part ... but if that Lyme disease vax was profitable you can bet a massive ad campaign to get everyone their shots ... and legislation requiring all school aged children get the full course or not be allowed to attend school ... but it's not profitable, so public health be damned, the company ain't gonna make it ...

How much of this increase in disease be associated with just more people living closer together? ...
The Lyme disease vaccine was pulled because it had unpleasant side effects and was of doubtful efficacy.

And please learn how to use periods. Most of the time, you only need one at a time.
  #6  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:37 AM
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Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
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It is a must-do to tick check in my locale. People, dogs, kids. No one gets past the mudroom until checking is done. Tick diseases are horrible. I am kinda phobic about it.
  #7  
Old 06-10-2018, 11:58 AM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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The Lyme disease vaccine was pulled because it had unpleasant side effects and was of doubtful efficacy ... [snip]
From the CDC:

Quote:
[snip] ... A Lyme disease vaccine is no longer available. The vaccine manufacturer discontinued production in 2002, citing insufficient consumer demand. Protection provided by this vaccine diminishes over time. Therefore, if you received the Lyme disease vaccine before 2002, you are probably no longer protected against Lyme disease ... [snap]
From the article in question:

Quote:
[snip] ... the Lymerix ship had long since sailed: facing lawsuits and turning relatively little profit, its manufacturer pulled it off the market in 2002 ... [snap]
Two credible citations that the vax was pulled off the market for financial reasons ... there's plenty of citations that back up your claim of "unpleasant side effects" in the many anti-vax web pages ... and the efficacy of Lymerix (≈ 80%) is comparable to the mumps vax (≈ 88%) {Cite} ...

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[snap] ... And please learn how to use periods. Most of the time, you only need one at a time.
Ah ... the ad reciprocans versus attack ... periods happen whether one learns to use them or not ...
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:56 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is offline
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
Link to the article in question: "Do dogs have better protection from ticks than people do?"

I think even if ticks were disease free we'd still want to do tick checks ... they're harmful just on their own and nasty to boot ...

Of course anti-vaxxers, climate change and colliding galaxies have their part ... but if that Lyme disease vax was profitable you can bet a massive ad campaign to get everyone their shots ... and legislation requiring all school aged children get the full course or not be allowed to attend school ... but it's not profitable, so public health be damned, the company ain't gonna make it ...

How much of this increase in disease be associated with just more people living closer together? ...
The increase in Lyme disease has to do with human-caused inadvertent shifting of the complicated relationship between mice, deer, ticks, forest vs farmland, and climate change.
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:18 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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I can't imagine a Lyme vaccine being required for anyone except maybe park rangers and First Responders in high-risk areas. It isn't transmissible person-to-person.
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:38 PM
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I would take that vaccine. There's alot ticks in Arkansas.
  #11  
Old 06-10-2018, 07:36 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is offline
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Me too. I'm only a couple hours from Lyme itself. I know many people who have gotten it.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:23 PM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I can't imagine a Lyme vaccine being required for anyone except maybe park rangers and First Responders in high-risk areas. It isn't transmissible person-to-person.
I'd get it in a shot. Ticks are all over the scottish highlands, and I routinely have to pull 4 or more off me after every camping trip.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:18 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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I'd get it in a shot. Ticks are all over the scottish highlands, and I routinely have to pull 4 or more off me after every camping trip.
But are they Lyme ticks? Does anyone know if the disease exists outside North America?

There are other tick-borne diseases; ehrlichiosis and Rocky Mountain spotted fever are the best-known.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:31 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
But are they Lyme ticks? Does anyone know if the disease exists outside North America?

There are other tick-borne diseases; ehrlichiosis and Rocky Mountain spotted fever are the best-known.
It does indeed. Here's a map of occurrence.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:51 AM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
But are they Lyme ticks? Does anyone know if the disease exists outside North America?
Do you think I'd be keen on getting vaccinated for Lyme if the disease didn't exist here?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...r-lyme-disease

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...onwide_action/
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:06 AM
Casparlatete Casparlatete is offline
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Here between the Swabian Alps and The Black forest we have the honour of being the most tick-infested region of Germany - possibly Western Europe. Our dog has tablets which are very successful, the tick climbs on her, bites into her skin and its central nervous system is zapped (so I'm told) and they drop off, kaput. I check her after every walk and remove any I find before they have the chance to bite.
I play golf and am vulnerable to contact with the little bastards, so have an injection every so often; I have and "Impfbuch" ( certificate of vaccination) and I've just checked, and the next one is due in 2022.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:00 PM
sbunny8 sbunny8 is offline
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When I lived in TN, I discovered that the number of ticks that ended up on my body was proportional to the amount of clothing I wore. When I wore lots of clothes, I got lots of ticks (often more than a dozen). When I wore no clothes at all on the exact same piece of land, I got very few ticks, sometimes none at all.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:25 PM
DinoR DinoR is offline
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I'm surprised nobody's mentioned treatment of clothing with Permethrin. It repels. It also kills ticks exposed to the clothes. Compared to people who treated just their shoes and socks, those who didn't were 73.6 times more likely to get bitten by a tick. As a side benefit, permethrin treated clothes also repel and kill mosquitos. (That cite from the Univ of Rhode Island Tick Encounter Resource Center also covers the risks associated with usage and looks at proper use to mitigate risks to things you don't want to kill.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbunny8
When I lived in TN, I discovered that the number of ticks that ended up on my body was proportional to the amount of clothing I wore. When I wore lots of clothes, I got lots of ticks (often more than a dozen).
I could see clothes both providing better grip to scramble higher along with protection from being inadvertently brushed off once they get underneath. On the other hand, I also have managed to avoid getting bitten in some pretty infested areas with lots of clothes. A lot of that was because the army made me tuck my pants into my boots and my t-shirt into my pants. Ticks had a long way to scramble to find exposed flesh. I still generally wear and blouse pants into hiking boots when I am going into high tick areas. I also generally wear a light long sleeved shirt over a t-shirt tucked into those pants if there's a high tick and/or mosquito threat. It's dressing like the Army had me dress for the woods whenever there's a lot of biting insects; I'm aware my comfort with a socially odd way of dressing is uncommon. Especially for mosquitos, IME less tasty exposed flesh makes me a harder meal. I've even managed to avoid ever getting a tick bite. Anecdotally it's working. Of course adding permethrin in more recent years probably helps keep that record going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfreida View Post
The increase in Lyme disease has to do with human-caused inadvertent shifting of the complicated relationship between mice, deer, ticks, forest vs farmland, and climate change.
I'll tack on one other inadvertent side effect that likely has an impact. In much of the the Eastern US, whitetail deer are estimated to be more plentiful than when white guys with guns showed up in North America. That's partly thanks to us shooting the habitat free of most of the predators that prey on adult deer. Higher deer populations mixed with reduced habitat can make for high deer population densities.

Even a little bit of science showing that deer population is related to the incidence of Lyme disease. That's the abstract for a 13-year study in the same area before and after a hunt to reduce population densities.
Quote:
After hunts were initiated, number and frequency of deer observations in the community were greatly reduced as were resident-reported cases of Lyme disease. Number of resident-reported cases of Lyme disease per 100 households was strongly correlated to deer density in the community. Reducing deer density to 5.1 deer per square kilometer resulted in a 76% reduction in tick abundance, 70% reduction in the entomological risk index, and 80% reduction in resident-reported cases of Lyme disease in the community from before to after a hunt was initiated.
In some areas socially and politically supporting deer hunting to reduce populations is a longer term form of prevention. Even longer term, supporting projects to increase large predator populations can eventually help reduce the tick borne disease threat.

Last edited by DinoR; 06-15-2018 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:28 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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I'm surprised nobody's mentioned treatment of clothing with Permethrin. It repels. It also kills ticks exposed to the clothes. Compared to people who treated just their shoes and socks, those who didn't were 73.6 times more likely to get bitten by a tick. As a side benefit, permethrin treated clothes also repel and kill mosquitos. (That cite from the Univ of Rhode Island Tick Encounter Resource Center also covers the risks associated with usage and looks at proper use to mitigate risks to things you don't want to kill.)
Permethrin treated clothes are never going to catch on. It's extremely, extremely toxic to pet cats. Being exposed - just contact with the clothes or to dogs who have been treated with it - to the chemical leads to about a 40% fatality rate in cats, and with over 85 million pet cats in the US alone, there aren't that many people who are going to blithely risk that.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:33 PM
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Permethrin treated clothes are never going to catch on. It's extremely, extremely toxic to pet cats. Being exposed - just contact with the clothes or to dogs who have been treated with it - to the chemical leads to about a 40% fatality rate in cats, and with over 85 million pet cats in the US alone, there aren't that many people who are going to blithely risk that.
Poisoning with permethrin leads to up to 40% fatality.

Permethrin has low absorption rate, so poisoning is difficult to achieve unless you eat it. Even then it's breakdown rate is fast enough so that it doesn't damage people or dogs.

Because cats lick their fur, you should not coat them in Permethrin. (As well as avoiding feeding it to them). As well as avoiding using permethrin treatments for dogs or children on cats, you should also avoid letting them get liquid (garden) solutions on their coats.
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