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  #351  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:58 PM
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538 did a story very closely related to this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...maries-so-far/

They found that progressive candidates endorsed by the likes of Bernie Sanders are doing okay, but what's much more notable is how much the rhetoric and policy positions of "mainstream" Democrats has moved towards the platform of Sanders. Universal health care, $15 min wage, and much more, are now mainstream Democratic policy positions. That's a big, big win for progressives in the mold of AOC. The progressives may be being beat in primaries quite often, but just as often, if not more so, they're being joined, even when they lose. Most of these progressives who have lost have lost to other progressive candidates.

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  #352  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
538 did a story very closely related to this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...maries-so-far/

They found that progressive candidates endorsed by the likes of Bernie Sanders are doing okay, but what's much more notable is how much the rhetoric and policy positions of "mainstream" Democrats has moved towards the platform of Sanders. Universal health care, $15 min wage, and much more, are now mainstream Democratic policy positions. That's a big, big win for progressives in the mold of AOC. The progressives may be being beat in primaries quite often, but just as often, if not more so, they're being joined, even when they lose. Most of these progressives who have lost have lost to other progressive candidates.
And will those newly minted progressives keep those progressive positions in the general election?
  #353  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:19 PM
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And will those newly minted progressives keep those progressive positions in the general election?
We'll see. Probably depends on how successful they are (how many seats they win, and whether they gain the speakership).
  #354  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:23 PM
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Why Venezuelan socialism and not just plain ol socialism? Venezuela is just the latest place it doesn’t work because it wasn’t implemented right or something. Why not try it here though? Who isn’t looking forward to raiding the zoo for dinner?
The one time the USA butchered zoo animals for dinner was after the 1929 crash, caused by extreme capitalism.

Khrushchev's Soviet Union, while not perfect, did OK economically.

Maybe the difference in economic fortunes is due to something else.

Last edited by foolsguinea; 08-14-2018 at 07:24 PM.
  #355  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:47 PM
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The one time the USA butchered zoo animals for dinner was after the 1929 crash, caused by extreme capitalism.

Khrushchev's Soviet Union, while not perfect, did OK economically.

Maybe the difference in economic fortunes is due to something else.
Yeah capitalism at its lowest barely beats socialism at its best? That’s a great endorsement for failed leftist economics.

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  #356  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:11 PM
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That's not what I said. The "capitalist" economy you grew up in was shaped by social liberalism and central planning. Pure capitalism will lead to famine and war.

Khrushchev's Soviet Union was an economic success. Cuba seems economically stable. Less extreme "socialism," like social democracy, has a good record in the Benelux and the Nordic countries. Picking on Venezuela is cherry-picking.

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  #357  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:26 PM
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Khrushchev's Soviet Union was an economic success. Cuba seems economically stable.
When you're an economic success, you don't have to forcibly prevent your citizens from emigrating. Please don't tell me you're a Cuban apologist. Folks risk their lives to escape from that totalitarian, one-party state.
  #358  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:05 AM
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You're really afraid of her, aren't you?
The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes. What if she really is the future of the Democratic party?

A socialist nutbag with delusions of adequacy, who responds with accusations of sexism every time someone calls her out on a whopper. Come to think of it, maybe she is the present of the Democratic party.

Regards,
Shodan
  #359  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:08 AM
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That's not what I said. The "capitalist" economy you grew up in was shaped by social liberalism and central planning. Pure capitalism will lead to famine and war.

Khrushchev's Soviet Union was an economic success. Cuba seems economically stable. Less extreme "socialism," like social democracy, has a good record in the Benelux and the Nordic countries. Picking on Venezuela is cherry-picking.
Sorry, but I just don't see it - and I never agree with octopus on anything.

But economies that rely on centralized planning almost invariably turn out to be disasters. The market always outperform the 'superman' or 'supermen' who try to outperform it. You can redistribute the wealth that capitalism and free markets generate -- that is absolutely the place for economists. But not in creating and sustaining wealth. Hospitals? Schools? Institutions? I see a role for government control there, but not in the market itself.

That being said, I suspect a lot of "socialists" are mislabeling themselves or being mislabeled. I doubt most American "socialists" want to control the market; they just want to redistribute wealth through taxation and investment, which has been economic orthodoxy of many center-left democratic, capitalist societies for the last 70 years.
  #360  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:13 AM
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The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes. What if she really is the future of the Democratic party?

A socialist nutbag with delusions of adequacy, who responds with accusations of sexism every time someone calls her out on a whopper. Come to think of it, maybe she is the present of the Democratic party.

Regards,
Shodan
Since we're talking about socialists, and by virtue of that, human intervention in markets, what are your thoughts on the current president? How do you feel about his intervention in free trade? What are your thoughts on his repeated efforts to injure American brands with his twitter rage? These aren't the tactics of Obama, but rather Hugo Chavez or even Vladimir Putin. Where's your outrage?
  #361  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:16 AM
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When you're an economic success, you don't have to forcibly prevent your citizens from emigrating. Please don't tell me you're a Cuban apologist. Folks risk their lives to escape from that totalitarian, one-party state.
Just so we're clear, Cuba was (has been) hit with crippling economic sanctions from what would have been its largest trading partner.

I don't disagree with you that central planning is not a recipe for economic success, but I'm not sure Cuba's the best example. Venezuela might be a better one. The former Soviet Union, China, and Southeast Asian economies of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos being even better ones still.
  #362  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:19 AM
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Personally, I'm a free-market socialist. The government should be allowed to own companies that compete in any given industry. If the government company outcompetes the private ones, that's a sign that that's a function that government should be doing. If the private companies outcompete the governmental one, that's a sign that it's something that should be left to the private sector. If a company gets "too big to fail" and then needs a bailout, the bailout is in the form of a buyout, and now it's a government company (or merged into the existing government company, if there already is one). It's the same sort of situation we see now with the USPS successfully competing with UPS and FedEx, except without the government companies being deliberately crippled the way the USPS is.
  #363  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:35 AM
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Too much conflict of interest with the regulators competing with the regulated. Also the government is able to raise virtually unlimited amounts of capital, much of which is involuntarily sourced, which automatically puts it in an ant-competitive position.

So, you left out a few options: If a government owned company outcompetes a privately owned company it could very well mean that regulations were made favoring the government or that the government was able to coerce investors into investing in a company when they would have otherwise invested in a different company. The winner is determined not by who can attract the most investors, but by who can use the force of law to block investors from investing in the competition.
  #364  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:35 AM
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The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes.
No offense man, but you DO know who the President of the United States is right now, right?

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Come to think of it, maybe she is the present of the Democratic party
And that is worse than the present of the Republican party?
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:46 AM
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Too much conflict of interest with the regulators competing with the regulated. Also the government is able to raise virtually unlimited amounts of capital, much of which is involuntarily sourced, which automatically puts it in an ant-competitive position.

So, you left out a few options: If a government owned company outcompetes a privately owned company it could very well mean that regulations were made favoring the government or that the government was able to coerce investors into investing in a company when they would have otherwise invested in a different company. The winner is determined not by who can attract the most investors, but by who can use the force of law to block investors from investing in the competition.
I generally agree, though I would consider exceptions when it comes to public-use infrastructure and the production and distribution of essential services like utilities. Where I differ from republicans is that I would consider healthcare an essential service or somewhat like a utility, in need of strong regulation and perhaps some degree of central authority. Controlled monopolies or duopolies might be another viable alternative that strikes the right balance between public need and market-based economics.

But other than that, I'd be in agreement that we don't need a government option cutting across all sectors of the economy. The opportunities for corruption exist enough as it is now just from giving government the power to regulate industry.

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  #366  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:12 AM
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No offense man, but you DO know who the President of the United States is right now?
Yeah, a Peepublican criticizing AOC for being less than truthful is like a big leaky 55 gallon barrel of crude oil calling the kettle black.

The typo in the above was originally unintentional, but I like it and I’m going to keep it. And I’ll use it again. It seems like a good moniker for a Trump supporter.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 08-15-2018 at 10:13 AM.
  #367  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:21 AM
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Funny how whataboutism oscillates into and out of favor as a debate tactic.

If no one can debate the topic of the OP, we can let it rest until the next time she sticks her foot in her mouth. So, twenty minutes, at least.

Regards,
Shodan
  #368  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:46 AM
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So you make the government companies follow the same regulations as the private companies. And inequalities would be just as likely to go the other way, like the regulations that the USPS has to work under which would strangle most companies. Yes, there would be opportunity for corruption, but there's opportunity for corruption in every system. Address the corruption, not the system.
  #369  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:01 PM
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The entire structure of our government is designed around checks and balances built into the system because governments have a unique ability to abuse power. And even then we get Trump. I like the idea of constraining governments proactively rather trusting that the government will police itself if we give it unprecedented powers. YMMV, and it obviously does.

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  #370  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:05 PM
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Funny how whataboutism oscillates into and out of favor as a debate tactic.

If no one can debate the topic of the OP, we can let it rest until the next time she sticks her foot in her mouth. So, twenty minutes, at least.

Regards,
Shodan
I don't think referring to the current President is whataboutism. Referring to past Presidents, I would agree with you.
  #371  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:58 PM
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I think you are wrong, and that it is a nearly laboratory-grade example of whataboutism.

We kind of rang the changes on how these kinds of threads run.
  • She is an exciting new face, inspiring the progressives, which is far more important than nitpicking details. After all, this is a wedding election! Let's not spoil it with a lot of petty bickering about who killed who!
  • She wasn't wrong
  • Okay, she was wrong, but she wasn't WRONG wrong. If you tilt your head and squint your eyes just right, some of what she said was actually right
  • Okay, it wasn't right, but she was just using hyperbole to inspire, just like FDR. Haven't you ever hear of hyperbole?
And, when those didn't pan out and she said some more bone-headed things, the inexorable
  • What about Trump? How can you possibly support a politician who lies to stir up her his base?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez preempted one of the steps by playing the sexism card, but apart from that, it went pretty much by the book.

Regards,
Shodan
  #372  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:12 PM
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I think you are wrong, and that it is a nearly laboratory-grade example of whataboutism.

We kind of rang the changes on how these kinds of threads run.
  • She is an exciting new face, inspiring the progressives, which is far more important than nitpicking details. After all, this is a wedding election! Let's not spoil it with a lot of petty bickering about who killed who!
  • She wasn't wrong
  • Okay, she was wrong, but she wasn't WRONG wrong. If you tilt your head and squint your eyes just right, some of what she said was actually right
  • Okay, it wasn't right, but she was just using hyperbole to inspire, just like FDR. Haven't you ever hear of hyperbole?
And, when those didn't pan out and she said some more bone-headed things, the inexorable
  • What about Trump? How can you possibly support a politician who lies to stir up her his base?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez preempted one of the steps by playing the sexism card, but apart from that, it went pretty much by the book.

Regards,
Shodan
That may be true, but that's not why I was asking. I don't think she is an exciting new face of anything. I think it's funny that she beat what's his name in the primary, that's all. I doubt she knows much of anything but I don't expect her to know everything about everything, even in subjects she has a degree in.

However, when someone says "The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes." it makes me wonder how they feel about the current President, since I don't remember reading you stating this about the current President. If you have, then my bad. If you haven't, then my next question would be "If you don't care about how badly misinformed the current President is, why in the world would you care how misinformed a Democratic Primary winner in a Congressional Race is"?

Don't lump me in with others on this board. I actually want to know what you think, not set up gotchas or whatever.
  #373  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:08 PM
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I don't think she is an exciting new face of anything. I think it's funny that she beat what's his name in the primary, that's all.
Yeah, it was so funny that she beat what's his name. You know, that really famous guy!
  #374  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:41 PM
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When you're an economic success, you don't have to forcibly prevent your citizens from emigrating. Please don't tell me you're a Cuban apologist. Folks risk their lives to escape from that totalitarian, one-party state.
I was talking about economics, not party control. The USA actively suppressed left parties at the same time Stalin actively suppressed dissent in the USSR. Pinochet had a dictatorship that stood for liberal economics without liberal democracy. Capitalism is not necessarily freedom, so don't sell me freedom and switch in capitalism.

A very, very small fraction of Cubans leave Cuba. Fidel was never overthrown. Maybe the ones who want to leave are just outliers! Has that occurred to you?

Last edited by foolsguinea; 08-15-2018 at 05:41 PM.
  #375  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:25 PM
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Yeah, it was so funny that she beat what's his name. You know, that really famous guy!
He was the OLD new face of the Democratic party!
  #376  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:09 PM
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I was talking about economics, not party control. The USA actively suppressed left parties at the same time Stalin actively suppressed dissent in the USSR. Pinochet had a dictatorship that stood for liberal economics without liberal democracy. Capitalism is not necessarily freedom, so don't sell me freedom and switch in capitalism.

A very, very small fraction of Cubans leave Cuba. Fidel was never overthrown. Maybe the ones who want to leave are just outliers! Has that occurred to you?
Capitalism cannot occur without freedom to engage in voluntary exchange. You seem to conflate freedom with democracy.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:00 AM
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That may be true, but that's not why I was asking. I don't think she is an exciting new face of anything. I think it's funny that she beat what's his name in the primary, that's all. I doubt she knows much of anything but I don't expect her to know everything about everything, even in subjects she has a degree in.

However, when someone says "The idea of someone as badly misinformed as this with her finger in national politics does concern me a bit, yes." it makes me wonder how they feel about the current President, since I don't remember reading you stating this about the current President. If you have, then my bad. If you haven't, then my next question would be "If you don't care about how badly misinformed the current President is, why in the world would you care how misinformed a Democratic Primary winner in a Congressional Race is"?

Don't lump me in with others on this board. I actually want to know what you think, not set up gotchas or whatever.
I don’t speak for Shodan but I am more concerned about democratic socialism than Trump because he is a personality while demsoc is an ideology that has some staying power even amongst a large swath of Trump supporters.

Trump is attacked for being evil all the time, it is assumed that he is bad. Demsocs are assumed to be good, if too idealistic or wet behind the ears.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 08-16-2018 at 08:02 AM.
  #378  
Old 08-16-2018, 08:04 AM
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538 did a story very closely related to this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...maries-so-far/

They found that progressive candidates endorsed by the likes of Bernie Sanders are doing okay, but what's much more notable is how much the rhetoric and policy positions of "mainstream" Democrats has moved towards the platform of Sanders. Universal health care, $15 min wage, and much more, are now mainstream Democratic policy positions. That's a big, big win for progressives in the mold of AOC. The progressives may be being beat in primaries quite often, but just as often, if not more so, they're being joined, even when they lose. Most of these progressives who have lost have lost to other progressive candidates.
They are moving the Overton window within the party, but it's not clear at all whether they are doing it with the general electorate. 2018 and 2020 will tell us a lot about this. Although it won't be as simple as wins and losses. Trump could very well lose to a hardcore progressive, but given that current polling shows Joe Biden beating him by 15 points without taking any of these hard left positions, you'd have to think a 5 point win by a Liz Warren type would be a warning sign even while Democrats celebrated.
  #379  
Old 08-24-2018, 08:52 AM
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In other news...

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez has taken a firm stance against accepting campaign contributions from the fossil fuel industry. Sort of - she did accept campaign contributions from JP Morgan Chase, but that doesn't count, because mumble mumble, and if we don't allow the local press at our rallies, maybe no one will notice. And has taken an equally principled stand against Uber, which causes suicide and depresses wages. For various values of "principled".

If she is the face of the progressive socialist movement, she seems to have at least two of them.

Regards,
Shodan
  #380  
Old 08-24-2018, 10:49 AM
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I don't think you can declare Ms. Ocasio-Cortez to be the face of the party based on one victory in one primary in one district. Sure, maybe she doesn't seem all that bright, but a smart person never would have run in that contest in the first place. She's 28, maybe she's got what it takes to get up to speed, maybe she doesn't. If she does, she'll do OK, if not then someone smarter will run against her next time. A ditz for a congressperson is readily survivable, more so, at any rate, than one for a President.

As I've said elsewhere I don't regards myself as a democratic socialist. Others might, but then you're talking about people who use progress liberal communist fascist socialist Democrat as if it were a single noun. I would not, however, mind seeing a few of them in office to balance some of the loons that the Republicans have elected and drag the center back to, well, the center.
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:44 AM
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But she's new! She's exciting! She's passionate! She's also stupid, misinformed, and hypocritical. But if I had to choose between her face, and Bernie Sanders' face, I know which way I'd go.

Regards,
Shodan
  #382  
Old 08-24-2018, 11:51 AM
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But she's new! She's exciting! She's passionate!
...she makes Fox News and its viewers go insane!
  #383  
Old 08-24-2018, 12:00 PM
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Thankfully she’s no longer the flavor of the month with most of her endorsed candidates flaming out spectacularly.

I noticed a lot of law firm donations to her campaign. I wonder if any of them are working on anti ride share litigation or legislation? Seems like you can always find taxi union money behind every anti-Uber candidate.
  #384  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:37 PM
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Progressive Ayanna Pressley has defeated 10-time Congressman Michael Capuano to win the Democratic primary in the Massachusetts district once represented by John F. Kennedy. She could be the first African American woman to represent Massachusetts in Congress.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/u...gtype=Homepage
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:39 AM
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I am more concerned about democratic socialism than Trump because he is a personality while demsoc is an ideology that has some staying power even amongst a large swath of Trump supporters.

Trump is attacked for being evil all the time, it is assumed that he is bad. Demsocs are assumed to be good
This is a good description of my fears for the long term changes(say,20-30 years).
Trump is an idiot, and will be gone in a couple years. But the Sanderista agenda in the Democratic party will eventually rule -and for a long time.

Some of which is good, of course--(medicare for all, just like every other country in the world, a higher minumum wage.)
But other changes are deeply worrying to me: identity politics will reign supreme, political correctness will be enforced by law, dissent will be squashed(possibly by being defined as hate speech),and a new McCarthyism will sweep the land.

Right now, there have been only minor incidents, usually confined to college campuses. (and Foxnews sure loves to exaggerate them).
But eventually, one of those kids crying for safe spaces and trigger warnings and protection from cultural appropriation will get elected to the White House.
She may be black or hispanic, and everywhere you look, there will be diversity: diversity of skin color--but no diversity of thought.

Shodan's link (about a professional politician banning the press from her meetings), and the episode of the professor at Missouri U calling for "muscle" to evict the press from her protest --are minor examples--so far. But they will eventually become acceptable and normal.


Trump is one individual, who will soon be is gone. But the Democratic party is an institution. After Trump is forgotten, the pendulum will swing back in the opposite direction, and stay there for a long, long time.
McCarthyism only lasted about 4 years. The new McCarthyism will be worse.
  #386  
Old 09-05-2018, 02:56 AM
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The people of Massachusetts district 7 may have done a very stupid thing. Capuano certainly hasn’t gone distant from his district and his voting record reflects a representative from a D+34 district. He is, of course, guilty of being older, white, and male.


Perhaps Pressley will be an effective representative. But there’s always a risk with a newcomer with no seniority nor knowledge of how to get things done in Congress. Let’s hope she’s interested in doing the hard work rather than whining about moving the widow or furthering the revolution.

Thankfully for her, there’s a lot of news out there sucking the oxygen out so she’s not likely to become a media darling overnight like AOC.
  #387  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:34 AM
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The people of Massachusetts district 7 may have done a very stupid thing. Capuano certainly hasn’t gone distant from his district and his voting record reflects a representative from a D+34 district. He is, of course, guilty of being older, white, and male.

Perhaps Pressley will be an effective representative. But there’s always a risk with a newcomer with no seniority nor knowledge of how to get things done in Congress. Let’s hope she’s interested in doing the hard work rather than whining about moving the widow or furthering the revolution.

Thankfully for her, there’s a lot of news out there sucking the oxygen out so she’s not likely to become a media darling overnight like AOC.
God you're predictable. Capuano says Pressley will be a great rep. And it's a great thing when young-ish folks of color run for high office -- great for the party and for the country.
  #388  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:09 AM
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She may be black or hispanic, and everywhere you look, there will be diversity: diversity of skin color--but no diversity of thought.

Shodan's link (about a professional politician banning the press from her meetings), and the episode of the professor at Missouri U calling for "muscle" to evict the press from her protest --are minor examples--so far. But they will eventually become acceptable and normal.


Trump is one individual, who will soon be is gone. But the Democratic party is an institution. After Trump is forgotten, the pendulum will swing back in the opposite direction, and stay there for a long, long time.
McCarthyism only lasted about 4 years. The new McCarthyism will be worse.
So Trump banning specific reporters and calling for people to get beat up at his rallies isn't a big deal because he's just one guy who'll be gone eventually but a couple of unelected people you highlight are an ominous sign of the Democratic party's direction?

Last edited by CarnalK; 09-05-2018 at 11:10 AM.
  #389  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:31 AM
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Perhaps Pressley will be an effective representative. But there’s always a risk with a newcomer with no seniority nor knowledge of how to get things done in Congress. Let’s hope she’s interested in doing the hard work rather than whining about moving the widow or furthering the revolution.
She isn't just some rando who fell onto the ballot, she's been serving on the Boston city council since 2009 and previously served as a Congressional aide for Joseph Kennedy II and on John Kerry's presidential campaign.

Last edited by Jophiel; 09-05-2018 at 11:34 AM.
  #390  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:38 AM
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She could be the first African American woman to represent Massachusetts in Congress.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/u...gtype=Homepage
I believe I heard/read that the Republicans didn't have anyone on the ballot so it's virtually a certainty that she'll get that role.
  #391  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:39 AM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
I believe I heard/read that the Republicans didn't have anyone on the ballot so it's virtually a certainty that she'll get that role.


There is no Republican and it’s D +34 so she will be elected.
  #392  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:42 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Capuano says Pressley will be a great rep.
He's probably right, but you do know he has to say that no matter what he thinks, don't you?

Meanwhile, the point about a freshman having to take the time to learn who to talk to and where to get something done is simply true.
  #393  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:46 AM
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Thankfully she’s no longer the flavor of the month with most of her endorsed candidates flaming out spectacularly.

I noticed a lot of law firm donations to her campaign. I wonder if any of them are working on anti ride share litigation or legislation? Seems like you can always find taxi union money behind every anti-Uber candidate.
There's no such thing as "ride sharing" just like there's no such thing as "food sharing" or "house sharing": Uber is a taxi/livery service.
  #394  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:52 PM
ShadowFacts ShadowFacts is offline
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Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
The people of Massachusetts district 7 may have done a very stupid thing. Capuano certainly hasn’t gone distant from his district and his voting record reflects a representative from a D+34 district. He is, of course, guilty of being older, white, and male.


Perhaps Pressley will be an effective representative. But there’s always a risk with a newcomer with no seniority nor knowledge of how to get things done in Congress. Let’s hope she’s interested in doing the hard work rather than whining about moving the widow or furthering the revolution.

Thankfully for her, there’s a lot of news out there sucking the oxygen out so she’s not likely to become a media darling overnight like AOC.
I'm one of the maybe-stupid people who voted for Pressley and I am here to tell you that you are...uninformed. There was nothing in Pressley's campaign that was remotely "whining" or talking about "revolution." That's BS that you made up in your mind and projected onto her.

Pressley has an effective record as a City Councilor, a role with little power in Boston. But despite the lack of power, she managed to clearly lay out goals and accomplish (many of) them. And as others already said, she served as a staffer in the House before she ran for office herself, so she knows a little about how to navigate that world.

Capuano is a legit guy. I've voted for him many times, but I don't OWE him my vote. And I was more impressed with Pressley's priorities and the way she said she would tackle important issues. His experience is valuable, for sure, but that's not the only consideration.
  #395  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:54 PM
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Meanwhile, the point about a freshman having to take the time to learn who to talk to and where to get something done is simply true.
Of course it is, but that's no reason to classify the election of a new Representative as a "very stupid thing". The freshman learning curve is hardly unique to lefties, or black women, or anyone else.
  #396  
Old 09-05-2018, 01:49 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Oh, surely, but it's a relevant factor to consider. Even a vet has to contend with a constantly changing cast of characters around him.
  #397  
Old 09-06-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ShadowFacts View Post
Capuano is a legit guy. I've voted for him many times, but I don't OWE him my vote. And I was more impressed with Pressley's priorities and the way she said she would tackle important issues. His experience is valuable, for sure, but that's not the only consideration.
Too bad Pressley couldn't have been running against and defeating Steve Lynch, leaving Capuano in place, eh?
  #398  
Old 09-06-2018, 12:57 PM
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I'm one of the maybe-stupid people who voted for Pressley and I am here to tell you that you are...uninformed. There was nothing in Pressley's campaign that was remotely "whining" or talking about "revolution." That's BS that you made up in your mind and projected onto her.

Pressley has an effective record as a City Councilor, a role with little power in Boston. But despite the lack of power, she managed to clearly lay out goals and accomplish (many of) them. And as others already said, she served as a staffer in the House before she ran for office herself, so she knows a little about how to navigate that world.

Capuano is a legit guy. I've voted for him many times, but I don't OWE him my vote. And I was more impressed with Pressley's priorities and the way she said she would tackle important issues. His experience is valuable, for sure, but that's not the only consideration.
This sums up my thoughts exactly. I didn't decide until very late to vote for Pressley, but I'm happy with my choice and the results.
  #399  
Old 09-06-2018, 04:30 PM
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They are moving the Overton window within the party, but it's not clear at all whether they are doing it with the general electorate. 2018 and 2020 will tell us a lot about this. Although it won't be as simple as wins and losses. Trump could very well lose to a hardcore progressive, but given that current polling shows Joe Biden beating him by 15 points without taking any of these hard left positions, you'd have to think a 5 point win by a Liz Warren type would be a warning sign even while Democrats celebrated.

And Bernie Sanders is beating him by the same margin
(actually 13% in this poll). Reading down the list of Democrats in order of their margins over Trump, it sure looks to me like it has a lot more to do with name recognition than ideology at this point.

Amusingly, this recent poll shows Biden with a 7 point lead over Trump, which ain't bad; but an unnamed Generic Democrat has a 13 point lead. That ain't good (for Biden, that is; it's great for the country). Unfortunately they didn't ask about any other potential candidates.
  #400  
Old 09-06-2018, 09:14 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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The ‘progressive’ revolution has been halted in Rhode Island as incumbent Senator Thomas Carper crushes Kerri Evelyn Harris.
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