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Old 07-21-2018, 06:25 PM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
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How do kids from "open" parents, rebel?

Its normal and expected for teenagers to rebel against the values of their parents. However that usually only implies the parents are "conservative" (in that I'm meaning say old fashioned, buttoned down) and the kids act out by say loud music, crazy hair, smoking, drinking, sex, etc...

BUT, what if the parents are pretty "open" themselves? Lets say the parents also get drunk, smoke weed, and do some crazy stuff and the kids want to "rebel"? What is the point of coloring your hair green if your parents also do it? What is the point of drinking or smoking weed if your parents taught you? What if a kid's parents are all about being open about sex but the kid wants to keep it private? What if the parents are into "Reject authority/constraints" but the kid wants some?
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:40 PM
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I have a big group of sibs. My Daddy was a Marine and a drinker. He was a conservative disciplinarian. We had plenty of family free-for-alls. Never any drug use that I knew of. We all coped in differing ways. I have a full-fledged Hippie brother, a sister who was a Jesus freak, a brother who was a jock. And more. It really didn't matter how my parent behaved, we all found a path, good or bad. I think some kids would be more sensitive to parental openness than others. Just like a pastor might have a rebellious kid and a goody-two-shoes. You can never tell.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 07-21-2018 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:07 PM
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All the pastor’s kids I knew were hell on wheels, by far the wildest. The kids of pot smoking hippies I know, are just like all the rest, weird about whatever strikes their fancy. One kid insisted on braces! I see no real difference with open parents, except maybe their kids are pretty open minded, compared to their peers, even if they aren’t following in the parents lifestyle choices.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:11 PM
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Yep, here in the bible belt the Baptist preachers kids were always the worst, by far.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:22 PM
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1. Balance, in general.

2. The right balance for that kid.


"Keep an open mind, but not so open that everything falls out"

and

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"


I think most parents who are open intentionally do just fine; most of the "way too open" ones are probably way too open because they're absent, drunk 24/7, etc. If you pretty consistently treat your kids in a truly loving way, I think your degree of strict/permissive is not as big an issue as it's made out to be.

In general, I think that if a parent needs "fixing" in this regard, it's going to be because they are blind to whatever it is that needs fixing. The parent who thinks they're "just strict" when in fact they're repressive and abusive, or "just open" when in fact they're grossly neglectful. Some are naturally blind, others wilfully blind or blinded by social pressure.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:55 PM
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Its normal and expected for teenagers to rebel against the values of their parents. However that usually only implies the parents are "conservative" (in that I'm meaning say old fashioned, buttoned down) and the kids act out by say loud music, crazy hair, smoking, drinking, sex, etc...

BUT, what if the parents are pretty "open" themselves? Lets say the parents also get drunk, smoke weed, and do some crazy stuff and the kids want to "rebel"? What is the point of coloring your hair green if your parents also do it? What is the point of drinking or smoking weed if your parents taught you? What if a kid's parents are all about being open about sex but the kid wants to keep it private? What if the parents are into "Reject authority/constraints" but the kid wants some?
You fundamentally misunderstand what's going on. Teenagers rebel if they think their parents are engaging in penny-ante bullshit control over their lives. The teens may be right or wrong, but that's the basic reason: they're trying to shake off the hands on their shoulders.

If those hands aren't there, why the hell do you think they would rebel? It's not something intrinsic to adolescence, it's a response to a perception of a specific parenting strategy.

This does not, of course, mean that kids with non-disciplinarian parents always make wise choices. They can be fuckups just as easily as kids of hardass parents. It's just that their fuckuppery will have motives other than rebellion.

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Old 07-21-2018, 08:14 PM
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My middle daughter was my rebel. I treated all three to the same rules and regs. But she just couldn't bring her self around to being agreeable. She was angsty and volatile. I just kept marching on, never giving in to her tantrums. I knew she could be a sweet child because she had been before.
I cringe when I hear parents who just keep changing the game and trying to come up with a better way. I never was a strict or regimented parent, but I was consistent. That's the key.

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Old 07-21-2018, 08:23 PM
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A long time ago, back in the late 60's, when "hippies" were scandalous, I saw a cartoon in a magazine that kind of addressed this issue. Two hippies, with tie-dye, head scarves, a peace necklace, and so on, were walking along the sidewalk with their child, a young boy. The kid was strutting along in a three piece suit and tie.

The caption has the dad telling the mom "Don't worry, it's just a phase he's going through."
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:57 PM
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..., but I was consistent. That's the key.
Should I be consistently wrong, or consistently right? I believe that it matters.

Consistency is certainly no key, when parents are stupid or abusive.

Consistency IS the key - IF your main fault is that you tend towards being inconsistent. And gentleness is the key if you're rough. And determination is the key if you're timid. And so on.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:10 PM
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My middle daughter was my rebel. I treated all three to the same rules and regs. But she just couldn't bring her self around...
Sometimes people really are different, in ways where treating them all the same brings vastly different results. Sometimes you need different rules & regs, to cope with that. Other times it's close enough and turns out OK.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:22 PM
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A long time ago, back in the late 60's, when "hippies" were scandalous, I saw a cartoon in a magazine that kind of addressed this issue. Two hippies, with tie-dye, head scarves, a peace necklace, and so on, were walking along the sidewalk with their child, a young boy. The kid was strutting along in a three piece suit and tie.

The caption has the dad telling the mom "Don't worry, it's just a phase he's going through."
Many years ago in California, I knew a couple with this problem.

In pre-hippie days they had embraced a communal, back to the land lifestyle. In the early 1970s, after having children they moved back to suburbia for better schooling opportunities. They still followed an unconventional lifestyle but were frustrated with a pre-teen daughter who insisted on dolls and lots of pink frilly clothing and bedroom decorations.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:33 PM
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A long time ago, back in the late 60's, when "hippies" were scandalous, I saw a cartoon in a magazine that kind of addressed this issue. Two hippies, with tie-dye, head scarves, a peace necklace, and so on, were walking along the sidewalk with their child, a young boy. The kid was strutting along in a three piece suit and tie.

The caption has the dad telling the mom "Don't worry, it's just a phase he's going through."
I think it goes something like this.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:03 PM
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You never saw the tv series "Family Ties"?
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:05 PM
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Should I be consistently wrong, or consistently right? I believe that it matters.

Consistency is certainly no key, when parents are stupid or abusive.

Consistency IS the key - IF your main fault is that you tend towards being inconsistent. And gentleness is the key if you're rough. And determination is the key if you're timid. And so on.
I didn't think the OP was talking about abusive parenting, but non-conforming parenting. Rebelling is a normal teenage behaviour. Changing the rules at that late date can only be harmful. If you have no rules in place by then you're probably gonna get bad results, I am afraid. You could get lucky, maybe.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:25 PM
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"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
I'm not sure I see the relationship between the two things here; besides I learned it different. I was impressed when the band Hatebreed was able to make it a central lyric to one of their songs, Live For This: "If you don't live for something, you'll die for nothing."
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:46 PM
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I think plenty of kids rebel, even with 'open' parents, they'll find some way to piss off their parents. Even if it's just to see how far they can push the boundaries or, for that matter, they're not rebelling, but it looks that way to the parents.
I'd wager that parents that teach their kids it's okay to have sex or smoke weed or generally be their own person as long as their being safe about it (protection and understanding of risk for sex, not driving or letting their friends drive while high, etc) probably have kids that don't go buck wild as soon as their out of the house. In fact, no cite, but I thought I've heard that kids in certain parts of Europe (ie France) don't have as much of a problem with binge drinking in college since they basically have been drinking (at least to a certain extent) for a few years already.

IOW, kids do things that their parents disapprove of for any number of reasons. If their parents don't disapprove or even if they do but they still educate them, those things aren't a big deal. Talk to kids in college that got high with their parents and see (I'm actually curious) if they're getting high multiple times a day like the rest of us were...the ones that are finally 'on our own'.


But, of course, it should be noted that some kids will always find a way to rebel. Also, just because the parents are open minded, doesn't mean that's what the kids want. Some kids want/need structure and rules and need their parents to tell them that getting high is wrong or that they shouldn't have sex in high school. Not as rebellion, but because they either need the structure to function* or because they think their parents are wrong.


*I feel like several of the kids I've known with 'cool parents' (ya know, the friends you had who's house you would go over to because you could smoke weed in the basement) ended up joining the armed forces.
Come to think of it, I also think a lot of these kids had very young parents, though I'm not sure if they had kids at a young age because they were irresponsible or having kids at a young age made them less likely to discipline their kids because they were trying to be friends with their kid.


TL;Dr Different strokes for different folks (and scooby dooby dooby).
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:55 PM
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BUT, what if the parents are pretty "open" themselves? Lets say the parents also get drunk, smoke weed, and do some crazy stuff and the kids want to "rebel"? What is the point of coloring your hair green if your parents also do it? What is the point of drinking or smoking weed if your parents taught you? What if a kid's parents are all about being open about sex but the kid wants to keep it private? What if the parents are into "Reject authority/constraints" but the kid wants some?
To rebel against their "open" parents, the kids vote for Trump. D'oh.
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:17 AM
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I once knew a single mom of a 12-year-old boy. Mom was a little strange, but nonetheless a lovely person with liberal politics and a big sense of social justice. The boy was obsessed with Nazis; he read everything he could find about them and liked to draw swastikas on himself and his possessions.
It was obvious he was trying to put his mother through agony.

I always wondered how he turned out.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:34 AM
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I have a friend just like ioioio’s - she’s very liberal and very pro social justice. Her 15 year old son is turning in to ... the opposite? Not so much neo Nazi-ism, as his little sister is half black. But he did read Mein Kamph and he is having issues with anti-Muslim rhetoric at school. And I think he’s turning into a bit of a men’s rights activist. It’s ugly.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:43 AM
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These days most of them don't, IME. But then I'm talking about kids aged around 12-23, the kids I'm most familiar with, and most of the kids from any family don't seem that interested in stereotypical rebellion at all. They don't drink much, they do drugs to a far lesser extent than we used to, and they're politically involved.

Here's a cite from a right-wing source, but there are tons of others: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mo...o-they-do.html

I always joked that I'd tell my daughter about my wild child days and turn her into a Saffy from Ab Fab. Well, I never got around to telling her much, but she is Saffy from Ab Fab, same as most of her friends.

In some areas of the country there is more drug use - I'm in London, and not by any means rich.
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Old 07-22-2018, 05:32 PM
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Some great parenting insights in this thread.
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:33 PM
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Its normal and expected for teenagers to rebel against the values of their parents.
Not necessarily.

In many cultures it's not "normal and expected," even though brain development is presumably the same everywhere. Typically, in societies where children spend time learning or apprenticing with parents or other family elders, instead of at school, this doesn't happen. These are often societies where they don't even have a word for "adolescence." This is part of what Left Hand of Dorkness' is saying above--the very first sentence of the OP is a misguided premise.
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:57 PM
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I don't know why anyone would think the only ways kids rebel is by smoking weed, drinking, doing drugs, having sex. Sometimes rebellion is simply noncompliant behavior, and even "open" parents have expectations. The kid who gets stopped for driving 100 mph on the freeway is probably going to be in trouble even if her parents smoke weed in front of her.
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:05 PM
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I'm not sure I see the relationship between the two things here; besides I learned it different. I was impressed when the band Hatebreed was able to make it a central lyric to one of their songs, Live For This: "If you don't live for something, you'll die for nothing."
I think the original was Malcolm X's "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

I like the version you quoted, too.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:16 AM
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Rebelling against decent parents is what God created the Juggalos for.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:09 AM
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These days most of them don't, IME. But then I'm talking about kids aged around 12-23, the kids I'm most familiar with, and most of the kids from any family don't seem that interested in stereotypical rebellion at all. They don't drink much, they do drugs to a far lesser extent than we used to, and they're politically involved.

Here's a cite from a right-wing source, but there are tons of others: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mo...o-they-do.html

I always joked that I'd tell my daughter about my wild child days and turn her into a Saffy from Ab Fab. Well, I never got around to telling her much, but she is Saffy from Ab Fab, same as most of her friends.

In some areas of the country there is more drug use - I'm in London, and not by any means rich.
I don't have children myself but I was going to touch on this. I've noticed my younger colleagues and nieces/nephews (aged 16-24) are much less wild than we were at their age (I'm 48). I wonder if they've grown up watching their parents drinking too much at parties and don't fancy it much themselves (note this is the UK, where regular drinking is commonplace).
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:31 PM
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My WAG: Very few parents are truly "open." Almost everyone is closed-minded or intolerant of something or certain things. So an open parent who doesn't mind teenagers smoking pot or cross-dressing might say "Don't you dare hang out with (Category of People)" and then, guess which crowd their teenager hangs out with.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:36 PM
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I once knew a single mom of a 12-year-old boy. Mom was a little strange, but nonetheless a lovely person with liberal politics and a big sense of social justice. The boy was obsessed with Nazis; he read everything he could find about them and liked to draw swastikas on himself and his possessions.
It was obvious he was trying to put his mother through agony.

I always wondered how he turned out.
At the age of 12 I'm not sure he's doing that with the specific purpose of antagonizing his mom. Age 14-17, sure.

Last edited by Velocity; 07-23-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:28 PM
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In societies where children are apprentice adults and are given adult responsibilities as soon as they can handle it, if not sooner, the kids don't often rebel. Because what would be the point?

The rebelliousness comes from a combination of expectations plus powerlessness. The parents treat the kids like children, but expect compliance about bullshit stuff.

The whole "generation gap" in the 50s and 60s happened because children were suddenly being raised differently. In earlier times, kids were put to work on the farm or in the factories. And sure, there were bullshit social conventions they were expected to follow, but they were the exact same rules that everyone had to follow, adults included.

Then along came the 50s and 60s. And with the depression over and the war over, it was a new era. Dad went to work but the kids went to school instead. And therefore an new thing was invented, adolescence. Young people were no longer treated as apprentice adults, but as children. And so the famous generation gap, where parents raised in the old style were raising children in the new style, and then wondering why their kids turned out different.

The generation gap is over because baby boomers raised in the new style raised their kids in the new style, and those kids raised their kids in the new style. Baby boomers aren't parents anymore, they're grandparents, and the generation that didn't understand the new generation are now dead or in nursing homes.

Yes, kids today. They get in trouble in ways we didn't when we were kids! Except some of the new problems that kids today get into aren't problems for kids, they're problems for everyone. Yeah, there are kids today who get exposed to toxic ideas online and become MRAs or whatever. And plenty of adults do too. It's not just kids who are spiraling out of control on social media, Fox News Grandpa is doing the exact same thing.
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:58 AM
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:10 AM
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One of my classmates dressed so preppy we didn't even have a word for it. Ironed light grey slacks, pastel-toned V-neck knits. Another classmate eventually asked him how come, what's up with all the light grey slacks and light pink knits. "You know the hippy store at the cathedral?" "Yeah...?" "My mother owns it " "HAH!" You wanna piss off a mother who's the hippiest hippy in town, go preppy.

One of my students was the son of a rich American sculptor and his also-rich, also-artsy Spanish wife; they lived in Spain, where she owned an artsy-craftsy store she opened when she felt like it. The son? When I met him he was a lieutenant in the US Army. You wanna piss off a pair of artsy types? Join that organization they hate more than they hate mismatched colors.

My grandparents from Hell didn't set foot in a church if they could help it. Gramps appeared to find it irritating that God couldn't be bothered smite him, despite having taken part in such lovely activities as burning down convents and raping female prisoners (including the occasional nun). My mother went daily-Mass and married a man who was actually devout.

Rebelling against your parents doesn't require them to be strict. It just requires you wanting to take charge of your own life.

Last edited by Nava; 07-25-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:56 AM
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I have seen such kids rebel and the parents simply accept their rebellion for who they are. Want to stay out all night, great, remember if you need help from us just call no matter how late. Sort of like the mormon religion where those of early adulthood are allowed to live a 'sinful' life in society for 1-2 years as part of their self discovery process, after which they are welcomes back. And through they can engage in sinful behavior it is not considered sinful for this purpose.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:57 AM
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My WAG: Very few parents are truly "open." Almost everyone is closed-minded or intolerant of something or certain things. So an open parent who doesn't mind teenagers smoking pot or cross-dressing might say "Don't you dare hang out with (Category of People)" and then, guess which crowd their teenager hangs out with.
Bingo. "Open" parents are usually just strict about OTHER things. I've known parents who insisted, for example, that their kids' toys did not belong to specific kids...that they were communal. And I've never seen anyone gorge on as much soda, junk food, and frozen foods as those kids whose parents insisted upon a very strict healthy, organic diet at home. I have a business associate who is currently going through very rough times because her son wants to join the Boy Scouts.
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:42 PM
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My son smokes too much weed. And doesn't have a girlfriend - he had one in middle school (he's almost 20) and it was "too much work." And managed to not make it through tech school. But he does hold two jobs and his bosses love him - if I go into the restaurants he works in, they tell me what a hard worker he is. So his rebellion is "I don't want to grow up yet."

My daughter is non-gender binary and asexual.

I'm the only mom I know with condoms in the house for the kids, whose kids apparently don't have and don't want sex lives. So apparently, they are rebelling by never giving me grandchildren.....which I sort of hope they never do.

Neither has gone conservative or religious.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:02 PM
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Sort of like the mormon religion where those of early adulthood are allowed to live a 'sinful' life in society for 1-2 years as part of their self discovery process, after which they are welcomes back.
That's amish, not mormon.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:28 PM
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A long time ago, back in the late 60's, when "hippies" were scandalous, I saw a cartoon in a magazine that kind of addressed this issue. Two hippies, with tie-dye, head scarves, a peace necklace, and so on, were walking along the sidewalk with their child, a young boy. The kid was strutting along in a three piece suit and tie.

The caption has the dad telling the mom "Don't worry, it's just a phase he's going through."
Wasn't that the premise of Michael J. Fox's sitcom Family Ties?
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:01 PM
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A long time ago, back in the late 60's, when "hippies" were scandalous, I saw a cartoon in a magazine that kind of addressed this issue. Two hippies, with tie-dye, head scarves, a peace necklace, and so on, were walking along the sidewalk with their child, a young boy. The kid was strutting along in a three piece suit and tie.

The caption has the dad telling the mom "Don't worry, it's just a phase he's going through."
I was thinking of the same cartoon - Mad Magazine probably?

Think Alex Keaton from Family Ties.

Oops - see I was not the first with the example.

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Old 07-25-2018, 02:09 PM
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Quoth Dangerosa:

My daughter is non-gender binary and asexual.
Is that statement phrased correctly? If that child is non-gender-binary, is it correct to refer to em as your "daughter"?
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:00 PM
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Is that statement phrased correctly? If that child is non-gender-binary, is it correct to refer to em as your "daughter"?
I have her (their) permission to use female terms of reference. She/they chooses to present as a woman, just doesn't identify as such.
  #40  
Old 07-25-2018, 03:06 PM
Arabella Flynn Arabella Flynn is offline
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My parents are (well, were -- they might be ossifying in their old age) socially very liberal while I was growing up, my mother especially so. We never had a curfew, they rarely if ever waited up for us to come home, and when my father once asked me if I was going to wear that skirt out (ca. age 14), my mother forbade him from commenting on my clothing choices ever again. My sister dyed her hair black cherry red twenty years before cartoon colors were fashionable. They did not care if we drank or tried pot, as long as we were not using excessively, or stupid enough to drive like that.

In my case, the 'rebellion' was against my mother's idea that we should be best buddies. She not only wanted us to feel safe coming to her with anything, she actively pestered us to tell her everything. The result was that I felt everything was just gossip to her and told her as little as I could get away with, dwindling to absolutely nothing once I moved out for college.
  #41  
Old 07-25-2018, 03:20 PM
Sunspace Sunspace is offline
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What was that movie whee the son of hippies becomes an FBI agent?
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Rigardu, kaj vi ekvidos.
Look, and you will begin to see.
  #42  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:04 PM
jasg jasg is offline
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Originally Posted by Sunspace View Post
What was that movie whee the son of hippies becomes an FBI agent?
Flashback
  #43  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:06 PM
kanicbird kanicbird is offline
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
That's amish, not mormon.
Thanks for the correction
  #44  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:28 PM
mbh mbh is offline
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John Walker Lindh converted to Islam, changed his name to Sulayman al-Faris. and joined the Taliban
  #45  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:47 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
I didn't think the OP was talking about abusive parenting, but non-conforming parenting. Rebelling is a normal teenage behaviour. Changing the rules at that late date can only be harmful. If you have no rules in place by then you're probably gonna get bad results, I am afraid. You could get lucky, maybe.
The OP was talking about parenting in general, and I stand by my point that being consistent is no good if you're doing the wrong thing.
  #46  
Old 07-25-2018, 11:01 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Many years ago in California, I knew a couple with this problem.

In pre-hippie days they had embraced a communal, back to the land lifestyle. In the early 1970s, after having children they moved back to suburbia for better schooling opportunities. They still followed an unconventional lifestyle but were frustrated with a pre-teen daughter who insisted on dolls and lots of pink frilly clothing and bedroom decorations.
That reminds me of the anecdote about the hippie parents who did something similar, and their grade-school aged daughter wanted to wear dresses, keep the house clean, and go to church - all things her parents didn't believe in. Don't know how much they allowed her to do, or what ended up happening.

Many years ago, I was at a get-together and a man there kept talking about PKs. I asked him, "Which kind?" and he replied, "What do you mean?" I told him, "Usually, a PK is a preacher's kid, but I've also heard it used in reference to policeman's kids and principal's kids." He was indeed referring to preacher's kids - and I found out later that he was a policeman. (Estranged from all his biological children, no less.)
  #47  
Old 07-26-2018, 08:29 PM
jasg jasg is offline
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Many years ago, I was at a get-together and a man there kept talking about PKs. I asked him, "Which kind?" and he replied, "What do you mean?" I told him, "Usually, a PK is a preacher's kid, but I've also heard it used in reference to policeman's kids and principal's kids." He was indeed referring to preacher's kids - and I found out later that he was a policeman. (Estranged from all his biological children, no less.)
Yeah. One of the angriest drunks I have ever encountered on FaceBook was the Methodist preacher's kid from my hometown. He got banned from the hometown group.
  #48  
Old 07-28-2018, 06:03 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Yeah. One of the angriest drunks I have ever encountered on FaceBook was the Methodist preacher's kid from my hometown. He got banned from the hometown group.
Interesting. The Methodist church is usually pretty liberal.
  #49  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:13 PM
China Guy China Guy is offline
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As a PK, in my experience, it doesn't really matter what denomination nor how "liberal" the father/church/denomination is.

I remember being in 6th or 7th grade, and a classmate asked me if I was a preacher's kid? I'm like WTF. Then the classmate said "my mother explained that whoever swore the most was a PK, and it turns out she's right!"

I used to really swear a lot. My kids basically don't, so I've succeeded there I think. In fact, I've kinda sorta maybe taught them that not swearing can be more effective and draw more attention. A really strategic "dang" usually creates much more impact than "damn."

Even my autistic child doesn't swear. Although I have to confess maybe 3 months ago she tried to "tease" her twin. To parents of kids on the spectrum, this is a huge milestone to understand there is such a thing as teasing and want to participate. EXCEPT, her attempt to tease was to grab her twin's napkin and shout "this is mine goddamnit". I don't know if I was more shocked or dumbfounded. It took a little while to work out she was trying to tease her sister in a good way. We've been working on that and she's also learned that "goddamnit" isn't a word she should use.
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