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Old 11-21-2018, 12:44 PM
steronz steronz is online now
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Why is conservative media obsessed with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Especially since the election, the conservative media has been obsessed with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, running stories about her almost daily. Even, humorously, a story on Breitbart about Ocasio-Cortez pointing out how the GOP is obsessed with her.

I get that she's a scary Democratic Socialist, and she's young, a woman, a minority, an east coast "big city" liberal and all that, but there seems to be something else, some sort of an X factor that has caused my conservative FB friends to share waaay more stories about her than her meager influence would suggest is reasonable.

Why?
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Old 11-21-2018, 12:52 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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I think she represents what conservatives fear most, being overrun by demographic changes.

The gop is a party of elderly white conservative with patriarchal views.

Young people prefer the democrats by big margins, are multicultural, multiracial, feminist and do not fear socialism.

I think Cortez is the embodiment of the first wave of what the gop fears, a future where multiracial, multicultural young people vote in such huge numbers that they overwhelm elderly white conservative voters.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:00 PM
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Ocasio-Cortez is probably the closest thing to a budding superstar that the Democrats have had since Barack Obama.

No offense to Ocasio-Cortez, but I don't think she's got Barack Obama level of intellect.

Last edited by asahi; 11-21-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:02 PM
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Conservative media thrives on keeping its viewers outraged or afraid. She is just the latest embodiment of the scary threat that is coming to change your country and disparage everything good and decent. This is entirely a manufactured persona, one also borne by Nancy Pelosi.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:02 PM
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On the one hand, she is a budding rising star, and the GOP fears that.

But she's also said a lot of nonsensical things that are just begging to be memed: Like, "In capitalism, man oppresses man. In socialism, it's the other way around." Wait, so........in socialism, man oppresses man?
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:03 PM
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Especially since the election, the conservative media has been obsessed with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, running stories about her almost daily. Even, humorously, a story on Breitbart about Ocasio-Cortez pointing out how the GOP is obsessed with her.

I get that she's a scary Democratic Socialist, and she's young, a woman, a minority, an east coast "big city" liberal and all that, but there seems to be something else, some sort of an X factor that has caused my conservative FB friends to share waaay more stories about her than her meager influence would suggest is reasonable.

Why?
I think the answer to your question would depend on who initially brought up the topic of whatshername. Some people may simply be responding to any new topic of conversation. Others may want to know what their conservative FB friends opinions are on this particular subject. Once a topic is opened, people join in.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:05 PM
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Conservative media thrives on keeping its viewers outraged or afraid. She is just the latest embodiment of the scary threat that is coming to change your country and disparage everything good and decent. This is entirely a manufactured persona, one also borne by Nancy Pelosi.
And she's feeeeeeeemaaaaaaaaale.

They do love to hate uppity wimmen.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:06 PM
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Conservative media thrives on keeping its viewers outraged or afraid. She is just the latest embodiment of the scary threat that is coming to change your country and disparage everything good and decent. This is entirely a manufactured persona, one also borne by Nancy Pelosi.
Agree with this. They are getting started on their long-term playbook to smear. Hey, it worked on Hilary Clinton!
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:06 PM
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On the one hand, she is a budding rising star, and the GOP fears that.

But she's also said a lot of nonsensical things that are just begging to be memed: Like, "In capitalism, man oppresses man. In socialism, it's the other way around." Wait, so........in socialism, man oppresses man?
Dude, you've never heard that one before?

Practically a fighter squadron of whooshes going over your head.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:10 PM
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Yeah, that is the oldest occurrence I can think of of the "Russian Reversal" joke.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
On the one hand, she is a budding rising star, and the GOP fears that.

But she's also said a lot of nonsensical things that are just begging to be memed: Like, "In capitalism, man oppresses man. In socialism, it's the other way around." Wait, so........in socialism, man oppresses man?
Yeah, I can't find where she said that but if she did, she didn't come up with it. It's a very old expression, intended to be humorous.

I guess this sorta proves the point... the right is already making stuff up about her.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:12 PM
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I think the answer to your question would depend on who initially brought up the topic of whatshername. Some people may simply be responding to any new topic of conversation. Others may want to know what their conservative FB friends opinions are on this particular subject. Once a topic is opened, people join in.
100% of the time it's one of my conservative friends, completely unprompted, posting some link to the Daily Wire or some other garbage website saying, "Look how dumb this person is! Liberals are so dumb."

They are obsessed. Nobody else is bringing her up, and they are not looking for a discussion. They just want people to point and laugh along with them (but it's never funny).

Last edited by steronz; 11-21-2018 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:16 PM
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Yeah, I can't find where she said that but if she did, she didn't come up with it. It's a very old expression, intended to be humorous.

I guess this sorta proves the point... the right is already making stuff up about her.
The original ("Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite") has been attributed to J.K. Galbraith. Not clear if he actually said it, but it's been around since at least the 1970s, if not longer.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:23 PM
FlikTheBlue FlikTheBlue is offline
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On the one hand, she is a budding rising star, and the GOP fears that.

But she's also said a lot of nonsensical things that are just begging to be memed: Like, "In capitalism, man oppresses man. In socialism, it's the other way around." Wait, so........in socialism, man oppresses man?
Are you sure she wasn’t quoting Yogi Bera?

Last edited by FlikTheBlue; 11-21-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:24 PM
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I think this set of maps will tell you why they hate and fear a woman of color in a position of power
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:26 PM
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Ocasio-Cortez is probably the closest thing to a budding superstar that the Democrats have had since Barack Obama.
She isn't close to having widespread appeal within the Democrat party yet. For the foreseeable future, conservatives focusing on her is a way of focusing on schisms and perceived party in-fighting.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:39 PM
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100% of the time it's one of my conservative friends, completely unprompted, posting some link to the Daily Wire or some other garbage website saying, "Look how dumb this person is! Liberals are so dumb."

They are obsessed. Nobody else is bringing her up, and they are not looking for a discussion. They just want people to point and laugh along with them (but it's never funny).
Reminds me of George Soros. I have never heard a liberal say something like "As George Soros always says..." or some version of "thank god Soros is on that". But he's a point of obsession on the right.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:44 PM
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I think the Democrats started this one. She was on the Colbert show, she got a lot of attention, obviously she's young, photogenic, idealistic and conveniently located near the major media outlets in New York. That set her up as a target for the other side, who are always happy to leap at any bait offered. So now she's a divisive figure. Her supporters like that she is like them and can't afford to live in DC. Fox freak out and mock her and seem to think she's a poseur.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:46 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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She can run for president in 2024.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:55 PM
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1) She has essentially been Congresswoman-elect for several months in advance as her district is a large Democrat district. Therefore she was invited on all the big talk shows and appearing on political shows outlining her ideas - these ideas are very progressive, spoken with tremendous enthusiasm and conviction. She believes in what she says unlike others who shift to the left in the primaries only to shift back over to the middle in the general election.

2) She is young and with more and more young people being engaged with politics it is a problem for them because it shifts the future landscape towards democrats. Young people for a long while didn't show up to vote and generally had apathy towards their public officials. Now the public officials are reflecting themselves more. Complacency is no longer an option and that will hurt Republicans long term.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:56 PM
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The only reason she's a "rising Democratic superstar" is that she's getting so much media coverage. The conservative media is creating their own boogiewoman.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:32 PM
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Let's see, Bernie Sanders is a self identified socialist and has been in office for decades. Until the last presidential election, I doubt that FOX et. al. had said 10 words about him.

But conservative media has spent decades vilifying Hillary and Nancy Pelosi. Now they move on to Ocasio-Cortez. There has to be some common factor. But I just can't put my finger on it (without consent, of course).
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:18 PM
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Reminds me of George Soros. I have never heard a liberal say something like "As George Soros always says..." or some version of "thank god Soros is on that". But he's a point of obsession on the right.
I might get people screeching at me for noticing this, but poking at Soros is a coded way to poke at the Jews, the Eternal Boogeymen of, well, extremists of all stripes, if you go through history, but in our cultural context usually the far right.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:22 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Reminds me of George Soros. I have never heard a liberal say something like "As George Soros always says..." or some version of "thank god Soros is on that". But he's a point of obsession on the right.
Soros is an international globalist, Jewish and got rich in finance. What's not to hate for right wingers?
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:26 PM
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...
But conservative media has spent decades vilifying Hillary and Nancy Pelosi. Now they move on to Ocasio-Cortez. There has to be some common factor....
Well the GOP is scared shitless of Pelosi, they hate and fear her. She is a bogeyman to them. She was too damn effective.

Hillary, they saw would be running for President, and went to work early. Of course the GOp hated Bill, so....

AOC is about the most liberal/radical Dem in Congress and does shoot her mouth off on occasion, not thinking thru what she is saying. Makes her a easy target.

And of course, look at the GOP incoming freshmen vs the Dem- the GOP doesn't like powerful women.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:49 PM
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But conservative media has spent decades vilifying Hillary and Nancy Pelosi. Now they move on to Ocasio-Cortez. There has to be some common factor. But I just can't put my finger on it (without consent, of course).
Pssst, see post #7.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:52 PM
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Let's see, Bernie Sanders is a self identified socialist and has been in office for decades. Until the last presidential election, I doubt that FOX et. al. had said 10 words about him.

But conservative media has spent decades vilifying Hillary and Nancy Pelosi. Now they move on to Ocasio-Cortez. There has to be some common factor. But I just can't put my finger on it (without consent, of course).
Unlike Sanders, they're all Democrats?
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:54 PM
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She isn't close to having widespread appeal within the Democrat party yet. For the foreseeable future, conservatives focusing on her is a way of focusing on schisms and perceived party in-fighting.
I agree that she hasn't achieved that level of stardom yet, but she's clearly a rising star within the party. There are more people who know who AOC is in 2018 than there were people who knew Bernie Sanders in early 2015. She's already done the late night TV thing.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:55 PM
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Well the GOP is scared shitless of Pelosi, they hate and fear her. She is a bogeyman to them. She was too damn effective.

Hillary, they saw would be running for President, and went to work early. Of course the GOp hated Bill, so....

AOC is about the most liberal/radical Dem in Congress and does shoot her mouth off on occasion, not thinking thru what she is saying. Makes her a easy target.

And of course, look at the GOP incoming freshmen vs the Dem- the GOP doesn't like powerful women.
This is a good post, especially with re: Pelosi. Wanna know who keeps the right wing up at night? Look at who's getting memed and talked about on Breitbart.
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Old 11-21-2018, 03:58 PM
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She's not clearly a rising star, she's just getting a lot of coverage atm. I would think we should wait til she actually does anything before we calculate her trajectory, but that's just crazy cautious me.
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:42 PM
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Two things, she's a rising star, so they want to get ahead of her. They also want to give her power within the Democrstic Party because she's so flawed. They want Dem primary voters to back her because she's beatable. They want her to be the face of the Democratic Party because of her flaws. Their path to win is fear and having deeply flawed out of mainstream candidates representing Dems is their ideal. What they don't want is a relatively boring, moderate being the face of the Dems.
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:55 PM
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Two things, she's a rising star, so they want to get ahead of her. They also want to give her power within the Democrstic Party because she's so flawed. They want Dem primary voters to back her because she's beatable. They want her to be the face of the Democratic Party because of her flaws. Their path to win is fear and having deeply flawed out of mainstream candidates representing Dems is their ideal. What they don't want is a relatively boring, moderate being the face of the Dems.
I partially agree with this. She's a good face to stick on the party because she's a little extreme and makes some mistakes. But please tell me that "They want Dem primary voters to back her because she's beatable." doesn't refer to a Presidential run. I guess it has too because in her House district she's not remotely beatable. You realize she's not legally eligible to run for President in 2020 and would only be old enough by less than a month before the 2024 election?

Eta: also we don't know if she's a rising star or a one hit wonder yet.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-21-2018 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 11-21-2018, 04:59 PM
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What they don't want is a relatively boring, moderate being the face of the Dems.
I'd have said that the Democrats don't want a relatively boring moderate being the face of the Dems, too.
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Old 11-21-2018, 06:41 PM
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If we believe what posters say, a lot of Democrats on this board are just convinced that a conventional boring white guy is the answer to their electoral woes.

As for AOC, I think a big part of it is that she's so young and so pretty. She is physically super-attractive for a politician. And the GOP, the party of young blondes with guns, have to know that female sex appeal sells. And here comes Alexandria, making even the right-wing media Barbies look like troll dolls by comparison. AOC is cute enough and fashionable enough to have already become a giant crush object for a wide array potential voters, particularly straight male voters. That is something the conservatives know they have to constantly inoculate against, by repeatedly insisting she's stupid.

AOC is also the beneficiary of timing. She had her seat locked up early, and due to New York's weird primary schedule, a week when she became the big media story. So she got in people's heads. She's a meme now. And that makes her a target.
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:29 AM
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No offense to Ocasio-Cortez, but I don't think she's got Barack Obama level of intellect.
Not many do. Other than Steve Bannon, can you name a single right-winger with IQ likely to be a match for Obama's?
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:59 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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The original ("Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite") has been attributed to J.K. Galbraith. Not clear if he actually said it, but it's been around since at least the 1970s, if not longer.
Christ, I recall Dave Berg having someone make that joke in Mad Magazine in maybe the 60s.
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:37 AM
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Christ, I recall Dave Berg having someone make that joke in Mad Magazine in maybe the 60s.
Now that you mention it, that resonates. That may be where I first heard that line!
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:39 AM
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Not many do. Other than Steve Bannon, can you name a single right-winger with IQ likely to be a match for Obama's?
I'd have my doubts about Steve Bannon. The rap on him is that he's read just enough of the classics to have pulled out a few good quotes, which these days anyone can do with a bit of Googling.
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:40 AM
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And she's feeeeeeeemaaaaaaaaale.

They do love to hate uppity wimmen.
Women and minorities. Clinton, Obama, Pelosi...and Maxine Waters seems to draw particular ire amongst conservatives I know, presumably for having the temerity to be a black female Democrat in Congress.

As for Ocasio-Cortez, she gets a lot of media coverage just by virtue of being a pretty young woman with strong views, but amongst a certain left-wing population she has become the avatar of the Young Progressive wing of the Democrats in a post-Sanders political world (and I know Bernie is still around and active but he's Old Guard Progressive and may be a spent force after 2016), along with the Parkland students. And that's another reason the conservative media are demonizing her; she's seen as a threat to everything they hold dear.

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The original ("Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite") has been attributed to J.K. Galbraith. Not clear if he actually said it, but it's been around since at least the 1970s, if not longer.
I've seen it attributed to John Maynard Keynes as well, although Galbraith seems more likely.
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:55 AM
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And that's another reason the conservative media are demonizing her; she's seen as a threat to everything they hold dear.
Are you arguing that she's perceived as a tipping point? Because demographic trends have been pretty clear for a while, now. The GOP has to pull out all the stops on voter suppression and gerrymandering to maintain its position. But that's not something that can last forever. As the country gets more diverse, the power of entrenched white males will crumble.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:07 AM
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Are you arguing that she's perceived as a tipping point?
By conservative media? Maybe...but mostly she's useful as a representation of all they believe to be wrong with demographic change and progressive views. "Vote GOP or young minority women will take your jobs and force you to become gay, renounce Jesus and eat tofu! See - here's one RIGHT NOW!"

Strawman, boogeyman and scapegoat all rolled into one.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:10 AM
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She's young, she's pretty, she's a socialist and therefore an idiot on economic issues, and she can be relied upon to play the race/gender card whenever she says something stupid, which she does a lot. She's entertaining, unlike Bernie who is old and ugly and has been cranking around Congress for decades without ever saying or doing anything of interest.

The idea that the right wing is building her up is kind of ridiculous. The progressive wing of the Dems would dearly love her to build momentum, but she won't. Socialism doesn't play in Peoria, especially not victim socialism.

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Old 11-22-2018, 10:17 AM
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She's young, she's pretty, she's a socialist and therefore an idiot on economic issues, and she can be relied upon to play the race/gender card whenever she says something stupid, which she does a lot. She's entertaining, unlike Bernie who is old and ugly and has been cranking around Congress for decades without ever saying or doing anything of interest.

The idea that the right wing is building her up is kind of ridiculous. The progressive wing of the Dems would dearly love her to build momentum, but she won't. Socialism doesn't play in Peoria, especially not victim socialism.

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Strawman, boogeyman and scapegoat all rolled into one.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:23 AM
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Not many do. Other than Steve Bannon, can you name a single right-winger with IQ likely to be a match for Obama's?
Richard Nixon?

John Sununu supposedly had an IQ of 180 based on a test created to test high IQ individuals.

However I don't think Nixon or Sununu were right wingers the way the modern GOP is (full of racist authoritarians). They were more moderate. Sununu did endorse Trump though.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:31 AM
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Ocasio-Cortez became much more famous than your usual newbie representative before the right wing jumped on her. There are other young, leftist congresspeople, but she was the one who is famous enough to be invited onto on major talk shows. That's why they picked her as the new Emmanuel Goldstein.

As to why they need an Emmanuel Goldstein, it's because they're fascists, and fascists need enemies. The creation of enemies is a central part of fascism. Note Shodan's post - he's already talking abbout her being an idiot, stupid, etc. etc. Of course, she is neither, certainly no more so than hundreds of other representatives on either side of the aisle. But the right wing needs enemies, she was famous, so they chose her.

The notion that the right win is "scared" of Ocasio-Cortez specifically, or Nancy Pelosi, is, if I may be really honest, just ridiculous. Nancy Pelosi has contested eight House elections as speaker and lost five of them, including, in 2010, the biggest ass kicking in the House in my lifetime. What's to be scared of? I have trouble believing anyone is "scared" of Nancy Pelosi. However, they need boogeymen. Fascism is identity politics in its purest form; it's all Us versus Them, and getting the base angry at Them is much more easily done if you can put a face or three on Them.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:33 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
She's young, she's pretty, she's a socialist and therefore an idiot on economic issues,
Whoa whoa whoa there, good buddy. That's assuming facts not in evidence.

Whether or not a socialist understands economics or not is really a matter of postulates, not knowledge. A socialist - and AOC is a democratic socialist and not a regular one - disagrees with the goals of economic policy. But that doesn't mean that he or she doesn't understand it. So labeling anyone who self-identifies that was 'an idiot on economic issues' is overselling the product.
  #47  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
Ocasio-Cortez became much more famous than your usual newbie representative before the right wing jumped on her. There are other young, leftist congresspeople, but she was the one who is famous enough to be invited onto on major talk shows. That's why they picked her as the new Emmanuel Goldstein.

As to why they need an Emmanuel Goldstein, it's because they're fascists, and fascists need enemies. The creation of enemies is a central part of fascism. Note Shodan's post - he's already talking abbout her being an idiot, stupid, etc. etc. Of course, she is neither, certainly no more so than hundreds of other representatives on either side of the aisle. But the right wing needs enemies, she was famous, so they chose her.

The notion that the right win is "scared" of Ocasio-Cortez specifically, or Nancy Pelosi, is, if I may be really honest, just ridiculous. Nancy Pelosi has contested eight House elections as speaker and lost five of them, including, in 2010, the biggest ass kicking in the House in my lifetime. What's to be scared of? I have trouble believing anyone is "scared" of Nancy Pelosi. However, they need boogeymen. Fascism is identity politics in its purest form; it's all Us versus Them, and getting the base angry at Them is much more easily done if you can put a face or three on Them.
Fascists? Címon now. Thatís ridiculous.
  #48  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Not many do. Other than Steve Bannon, can you name a single right-winger with IQ likely to be a match for Obama's?
On the Stanford-Binet scale what you think Obamaís IQ is?
  #49  
Old 11-22-2018, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
Ocasio-Cortez became much more famous than your usual newbie representative before the right wing jumped on her. There are other young, leftist congresspeople, but she was the one who is famous enough to be invited onto on major talk shows. That's why they picked her as the new Emmanuel Goldstein.

As to why they need an Emmanuel Goldstein, it's because they're fascists, and fascists need enemies. ...
Yeah, I've been torn but this seems to be it more than anything else. But add into it that the target of this Two Minutes Hate is fairly specific: the base and those who might lean to it, those who would still be impacted by trying to insult Obama by calling him a socialist. Holding up a socialist (democratic or otherwise) as a/the face of the opposition is trying to paint the Democratic party as somehow "extreme".

Another thought could be that some of them realize that "socialist" is losing its oomph as invective. The idea there is as Shodan illustrates: to use an unseasoned newb who will stumble some as a way to try to paint all socialists as idiots on economic issues, and try to revive the value of the word as invective.

That said she painted the target on her own back, or at least gladly put on the jacket that had the target on it. Yeah, the media jumped on her as a darling and she embraced the attention. I really do think she has potential to be a real leader and force in the future if she gives herself a chance to learn a bit from House progressives who have been at it a while and doesn't overly embrace the spokesperson for the movement that the media (of all sides) is eager to impose upon her. Accept that jacket being placed upon you and you unavoidably accept that you will be the target to attack.
  #50  
Old 11-22-2018, 11:10 AM
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I should point out that I don't think she's a "rising star" except to the extent that she ran a campaign that was moderately unconventional by current standards and won against a more "establishment" Democrat and then again in the general election. She'll go to DC, get some junior committee position and start working towards her re-election in 2020, making a few television appearances along the way, but she's not going to suddenly jump onto the shortlist of presidential candidates.
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