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  #151  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine View Post
Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him? ...
I'll tell you one thing, if it wasn't me in a picture like that you can believe I'd be screaming it from the first accusation. Also, I'd want to know back then what the fuck it was doing on my yearbook page.
  #152  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:45 PM
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What's amazing is that it hadn't been leaked before. Any of his old classmates must have kept on old yearbook laying around somewhere, and I'm sure some of them remembered the photo - that image is kinda hard to un-see and forget. Northam's career in politics has pretty much coincided with the social media age, so it's remarkable that he made it this far without being exposed already. I guess it's only in the past few months that his profile has been big enough for his opponents to care.
  #153  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:46 PM
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So, he put on blackface at a dance party some other time, which is why he can now clearly remember that he is not one of the guys in that photo.

Does that count as an alibi?
  #154  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:47 PM
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The 1985 Northam and 2019 Northam are two different versions of the same person (presumably.) It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions; it's the 2019 version.
Nitpick: 1984 medical schooler. Born in 1959. Aged 24 when that yearbook was released.
  #155  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:48 PM
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So, he put on blackface at a dance party some other time, which is why he can now clearly remember that he is not one of the guys in that photo.

Does that count as an alibi?
What else can he say after his admission yesterday, really?

Edit: So he had never seen or knew about this photo until now. Hmm.

Edit 2: He described the "coonman" moniker as simply two individuals who referred to him that way and he has no idea why.

Last edited by Dacien; 02-02-2019 at 01:50 PM.
  #156  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:58 PM
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Someobody is claiming he said, "I vividly don't remember..."

If that's true (I didn't hear it), that's a great line.

All this aside, his true best line was "That is not who I am." Which is true. He's obviously not a racist.

Last edited by Dacien; 02-02-2019 at 02:00 PM.
  #157  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:17 PM
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Nitpick: 1984 medical schooler. Born in 1959. Aged 24 when that yearbook was released.
Ok, my bad. I was off.
  #158  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:23 PM
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Wait a minute, let’s give this guy a chance to explain himself. Maybe he was in Maryland at the time at a party with Squee lifting weights and drinking beer!
  #159  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:26 PM
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Speaking of 'off,' I was sure wrong about him resigning today!

What a fucking nightmare for Virginia Democrats.
  #160  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine View Post
Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him? I was originally in the "having worn an outrageously offensive costume at a party 35 years ago isn't necessarily so damning that he should resign" camp, but the way he's handling this has been so bizarre and weasely that it seems to say a lot about his character today.
This is the issue I have with his response and he dodged the question several times. If he only dressed with shoe polish makeup one single time in the Michael Jackson dance contest, then why yesterday did he say it was him or did he think it could have possibly been him?

Why wouldn't after five minutes of thought say that no, it wasn't him?

However, I agree with you that even if it was him so long ago it isn't a reason to resign.

But, I have learned something today. It is offensive if a white person is dressing as a black person for Halloween or some other such informal party, to use dark makeup to get in character? Why is that? I'm not talking about a black minstrel face with the ruby red giant lipstick type of character. I understand that is offensive. But a white person now in 2019 simply cannot portray a black person at these informal gatherings?
  #161  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:28 PM
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Can someone be kicked out of a party? I don't think that is an option. Most states you list your party at voter registration and you can change it when you want.
  #162  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:31 PM
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My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh...".
There is a huge difference between resigning a job for which you were elected by the will of the people- vs simply not getting a promotion to a better job.

If those revelations about Kavanaugh had come out after he had joined the Supreme Court, I would say "Too late!".

I say he should not resign. But if he does, that's Ok too.
  #163  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:34 PM
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Can someone be kicked out of a party? I don't think that is an option. Most states you list your party at voter registration and you can change it when you want.
You aren't kicked out of the party, you are removed from any leadership roles in that party, along with any backing for campaigns for elected positions.
  #164  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:34 PM
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But, I have learned something today. It is offensive if a white person is dressing as a black person for Halloween or some other such informal party, to use dark makeup to get in character? Why is that? I'm not talking about a black minstrel face with the ruby red giant lipstick type of character. I understand that is offensive. But a white person now in 2019 simply cannot portray a black person at these informal gatherings?
That's considered offensive because of the history of blackface -- white people using white supremacist tropes to mock and denigrate the humanity of black people in performances. Without that history, you could dress as whomever you like. But in today's world, any attempt to darken a white (or light-skinned) person's face in America for a costume is likely to bring up thoughts of blackface.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 02-02-2019 at 02:34 PM.
  #165  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:53 PM
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There is a huge difference between resigning a job for which you were elected by the will of the people- vs simply not getting a promotion to a better job.

If those revelations about Kavanaugh had come out after he had joined the Supreme Court, I would say "Too late!".
I'm not following this point. If the idea is that because of action X we don't want a person to be our Governor for the next four years, why is it not equally valid if you find out six months after election to say that because of action X we don't want him there for the next three and a half?

I don't think he should resign, but he is killing himself with this poor explanation and dodging the obvious question he was asked several times.

I think that something along the lines of "I have always abhorred racism, but I grew up in a rural area of the Tidewater area of Virginia. Some of my friends who were not as progressive as me on race would sometimes get drunk and dress up in KKK hoods and blackface as a joke. At the time, I did not realize that this "joke" was not funny at all and has real harmful implications for many people. That is one of the reasons that 25 year olds are too young to become governor. I think my record for the past thirty years, blah, blah, blah" I could accept.

Now, many others might not be able to accept it, but people can change and grow. But his explanation of why he said it was him, or why he believed that it could have possibly been him when he states with certainty that the only time it happened was the Michael Jackson thing just doesn't make sense. He was given several opportunities to answer that question but he reverted to his talking points.
  #166  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:55 PM
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I'm not following this point. If the idea is that because of action X we don't want a person to be our Governor for the next four years, why is it not equally valid if you find out six months after election to say that because of action X we don't want him there for the next three and a half?
.
Do you not see the difference between getting fired and being denied a promotion?
  #167  
Old 02-02-2019, 03:14 PM
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If those revelations about Kavanaugh had come out after he had joined the Supreme Court, I would say "Too late!".
The thing with Kavanaugh is different though. Those were contested allegations that depended on the testimony of a few people. It was totally appropriate during confirmation and I wish it sank Kavanaugh, but sitting judges or governors shouldn't be burdened with that kind of stuff. Also, politically speaking, it's a heavy lift to impeach a SCOTUS judge.

But if something incontrovertible and criminal came out about Kavanaugh? Yes, impeach the man, no matter how long ago. It blows my mind that we barely touched the issue of $200,000 credit card debt he had... for baseball tickets. Who even has $200,000 in credit card debt? Who were these tickets for and what happened to them? How did he pay off $200,000 in credit card debt? I suspect there's at least 1 crime hiding in there, I think it should be investigated, and if proven, then he should be impeached.

A governor's position is also different in that it is an explicitly partisan position. Democrats have a right and duty to decide who they want to represent them and who they want to work with. If they decide a governor doesn't represent who they are, and his lieutenant is also a Democrat, then it's obvious they should ask him to step down and thwart his legislative agenda until he does so. It's a no-brainer.

I would struggle with this a little more if it meant handing the governorship to a Republican. Democrats would have to decide which is worse, the embarrassment and hypocrisy of tolerating a past racist, or giving Republicans the reins to continue gutting voter's rights in Virginia, which is a serious problem there and everywhere else. You don't cling to one principle if it means giving a position of power to someone likely to offend that principle even more severely. Would be a tough call and I'm glad it isn't necessary.
  #168  
Old 02-02-2019, 03:30 PM
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That is right at the fucking edge, Rittersport.

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  #169  
Old 02-02-2019, 03:41 PM
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Speaking of 'off,' I was sure wrong about him resigning today!

What a fucking nightmare for Virginia Democrats.
This is why I don’t make political predictions. A week ago Virginia Democrats seemed unstoppable. Now this.
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  #170  
Old 02-02-2019, 03:55 PM
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Wait a minute, let’s give this guy a chance to explain himself. Maybe he was in Maryland at the time at a party with Squee lifting weights and drinking beer!
I’m looking forward to the SNL opener that will reenact this incident.
  #171  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:50 PM
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I am surprised that we have yet to hear from anyone who was in med school with him or the editor of that year book. If we have that one page, we should, by now have the whole thing online.
  #172  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:54 PM
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It's a damn shame a solid progressive like Tom Periello lost to Northam in the primary. I lived in Charlottesville briefly and had the pleasure of voting for him in his successful run for Congress in 2008. Periello always knew which party reflected his own values. Northam voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and ran as a Demcrat forthe state senate in 2007 because he didn't stand a chance of unseating the Republican incumbent in the primary. Always beware of conversions borne by expedience. The GOP can have him back.
I will bet you a dollar that Northam (inevitably, within 48 hours, I think) resigns---and announces he is now a proud member of the Republican Party, because that is the party of integrity, not like those nasty Democrats.

And the GOP will embrace him enthusiastically.
  #173  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:55 PM
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That’s horrifying. Probably more consequential for the Democratic Party as a whole is his abortion stance, which pro-abortion rights activists pressure all Dems to adopt. A majority of Americans support the right to first trimester abortion but not so much after that. Which is where Democrats should plant themselves to best contrast themselves with “every sperm is sacred” or at least “life begins at conception” extremists.
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  #174  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:57 PM
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But a white person now in 2019 simply cannot portray a black person at these informal gatherings?
Nope, not IMO and for the reasons iiandyiiii stated. It's a bit like not being able to get away using a swastika in your wedding procession even though you are a devout Buddhist and it has nothing to do with Nazism in your eyes. You can get away with it if you're Robert Downey Junior in a major motion picture, but only if you approach it from exactly the right angle( which Tropic Thunder did IMHO ).

Last edited by Tamerlane; 02-02-2019 at 04:58 PM.
  #175  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:06 PM
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Nope, not IMO and for the reasons iiandyiiii stated. It's a bit like not being able to get away using a swastika in your wedding procession even though you are a devout Buddhist and it has nothing to do with Nazism in your eyes. You can get away with it if you're Robert Downey Junior in a major motion picture, but only if you approach it from exactly the right angle( which Tropic Thunder did IMHO ).
Yep. Immortal line chastising the black-face Downey Jr. character, given to one of the main characters who was a black guy:

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  #176  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:16 PM
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When you're getting trolled by North Korea, ya gotta go.

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  #177  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:24 PM
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His insistence he's not in the photos is bizarre.

Who's in the photos?

The idiot in blackface shouldn't be too hard to identify for some enterprising reporter. When that idiot is found, they can be gently asked to tell who the idiot in the hood is.

That photo has a story and a history and a setting and a context. Finding that out seems the next step.

And Northam needs to give a complete goddamn account of anything at all he knows about that photo--and if it comes out that he's prevaricating even the slightest, that it.

But the whole thing is so bizarre.
  #178  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:26 PM
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Not too good a week for the Dems. First Lieawatha has to apologize to the Cherokees and admit that she isn't an indian. Then it comes out that Kamala slept her way to the top (although I'm not crazy about her new campaign slogan, "I'm with Whore"). Then Northam (D-Racist) says it's OK to kill kids after birth. Now he also admits to wearing blackface.

Ouch.
  #179  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:27 PM
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That’s horrifying. Probably more consequential for the Democratic Party as a whole is his abortion stance, which pro-abortion rights activists pressure all Dems to adopt. A majority of Americans support the right to first trimester abortion but not so much after that. Which is where Democrats should plant themselves to best contrast themselves with “every sperm is sacred” or at least “life begins at conception” extremists.
The guy is on tape on WTOP saying it's OK to consider killing a baby.... after it is born. Yeesh.
  #180  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:29 PM
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That’s horrifying. Probably more consequential for the Democratic Party as a whole is his abortion stance, which pro-abortion rights activists pressure all Dems to adopt. A majority of Americans support the right to first trimester abortion but not so much after that. Which is where Democrats should plant themselves to best contrast themselves with “every sperm is sacred” or at least “life begins at conception” extremists.
How likely do you think it will be that Democrats will share that unsupported and incorrect view of his position on abortion?

I certainly see republicans pushing that line, trying to convince democrats to stop supporting him based on that sort of falsehood, but I like to think that democrats will be able to avoid falling for such lies.
  #181  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:35 PM
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Paraphrasing his new story: Oh yeah, I've done the blackface thing before, just not that particular time because I would goldurrned remember standing next to a guy dressed up as a kkk dude, and I don't, so there.
  #182  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:46 PM
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How likely do you think it will be that Democrats will share that unsupported and incorrect view of his position on abortion?

I certainly see republicans pushing that line, trying to convince democrats to stop supporting him based on that sort of falsehood, but I like to think that democrats will be able to avoid falling for such lies.

What was it in my comment that you quoted that was an “unsupported” and “incorrect” “falsehood”?
  #183  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:53 PM
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Democrats: "Yeah, I know we made the Grand Cyclops of the KKK our Senate leader, but that just doesn't seem racist enough"

Northam: "Hold my beer"
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:53 PM
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As to how this came out now, my guess is that someone said to a friend, "Hey, I went to school with the Governor. Here, let me show you my yearbook... wait, what the hell!?". This person, whoever it was, never noticed the picture before because usually, when you get your yearbook, you check all of the pages that have you on them, you maybe check the pages for your friends, and then you flip through a few other pages at random and put it on a shelf to gather dust. Some other folks might have noticed the picture before, but, well, we already know that there's at least one other person in his circle of friends who's cool with this sort of costuming. In other words, it wasn't any particular reason for it coming out now; it just happened to be now.

But as for that... The one page in the yearbook that everyone does turn to is their own. In the schools I've been at, they even give all of the buyers a little slip of paper saying what pages they're on. If that's not him in the picture, why didn't he raise holy Hell as soon as he saw it?
  #185  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:56 PM
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What was it in my comment that you quoted that was an “unsupported” and “incorrect” “falsehood”?
Nothing in your comment was a falsehood. Simply that I took it that you implied that republicans would mischaracterize his position with falsehoods.

They seem to think that he supports killing babies after birth, and that he supports a bill that would allow late term abortion on demand, and will push that lie. I am just of the opinion that democrats are not stupid enough to fall for it.
  #186  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:59 PM
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As to how this came out now, my guess is that someone said to a friend, "Hey, I went to school with the Governor. Here, let me show you my yearbook... wait, what the hell!?". This person, whoever it was, never noticed the picture before because usually, when you get your yearbook, you check all of the pages that have you on them, you maybe check the pages for your friends, and then you flip through a few other pages at random and put it on a shelf to gather dust. Some other folks might have noticed the picture before, but, well, we already know that there's at least one other person in his circle of friends who's cool with this sort of costuming. In other words, it wasn't any particular reason for it coming out now; it just happened to be now.

But as for that... The one page in the yearbook that everyone does turn to is their own. In the schools I've been at, they even give all of the buyers a little slip of paper saying what pages they're on. If that's not him in the picture, why didn't he raise holy Hell as soon as he saw it?
I have no idea, but how popular are college year books? I have friends who went to and graduated college, and none of them have a yearbook. Maybe med school is different, and the students are more interested in them.

Complete speculation, but I would not be surprised if he has never owned or even opened a copy of his 1985 medical college year book.
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:28 PM
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Nothing in your comment was a falsehood. Simply that I took it that you implied that republicans would mischaracterize his position with falsehoods.

They seem to think that he supports killing babies after birth, and that he supports a bill that would allow late term abortion on demand, and will push that lie. I am just of the opinion that democrats are not stupid enough to fall for it.
Except that IS what Northam said. His quote was:

"If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."

This was in the context of partial birth abortion. What did you think they were going to talk about, whether the Nats should re-sign Harper?
  #188  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:29 PM
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I have no idea, but how popular are college year books? I have friends who went to and graduated college, and none of them have a yearbook. Maybe med school is different, and the students are more interested in them.

Complete speculation, but I would not be surprised if he has never owned or even opened a copy of his 1985 medical college year book.
I believe he has said exactly that.

And as hajario commented a few pages back, most of us wouldn't assume that there even is such a thing as a "medical school yearbook." So the fact that neither Democrats nor opposition-researching Republicans looked for one, may be less surprising than initial reactions would indicate.
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:30 PM
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Good point. I think of yearbooks as mainly a high school thing.
  #190  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:36 PM
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Not too good a week for the Dems. First Lieawatha has to apologize to the Cherokees and admit that she isn't an indian. Then it comes out that Kamala slept her way to the top (although I'm not crazy about her new campaign slogan, "I'm with Whore"). Then Northam (D-Racist) says it's OK to kill kids after birth. Now he also admits to wearing blackface.

Ouch.
I'm not sure which is more offputting - the thinly veiled racism or the misogyny. Both are not appropriate here. While the recent story about Harris and Brown is in the news and discussion may or not be appropriate - insinuating she slept her way to the top and the whore comment are not without actual evidence. Knock it off.

[/moderating]
  #191  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:41 PM
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I have no idea, but how popular are college year books? I have friends who went to and graduated college, and none of them have a yearbook.
I'm guessing they're more popular at a small, perhaps residential college where everybody knows everybody else, than at a large university or a commuter college.
  #192  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:46 PM
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Yeah, we may have had a yearbook in college, but I sure don’t remember it. I know I had my photo taken for my college ID when I was a freshman and I think I had to get a new one for my junior year, but we certainly didn’t have the annual photo sessions like we did in high school.

Perhaps a medical school is different as you’re more likely to know most of your classmates as opposed to a large undergraduate university. But, even still, I can t imagine having much of an interest in yearbooks at 25.

Fun fact: my senior year high school yearbook has only a few signatures since they were delayed and we didn’t get them until after graduation. We had a post graduation yearbook signing party, but most people had already gone their separate ways.
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  #193  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:58 PM
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Except that IS what Northam said. His quote was:

"If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
How does that allow for the killing of said infant?
  #194  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:21 PM
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Democrats: "Yeah, I know we made the Grand Cyclops of the KKK our Senate leader, but that just doesn't seem racist enough"

Northam: "Hold my beer"
I already declared Byrd to be out of bounds.

Warning issued. Be better.
  #195  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:48 PM
RTFirefly is offline
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Sens. Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, and Rep. Bobby Scott, have made a joint statement saying Northam needs to resign.

Earlier in the day, I noticed statements to that effect from Biden, Pelosi, and Bernie Sanders.

It's getting to the point where the list of major VA and US Dem politicians who haven't said Northam should resign is shorter than the list of those that have.
  #196  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:10 PM
Northern Piper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
I believe he has said exactly that.



And as hajario commented a few pages back, most of us wouldn't assume that there even is such a thing as a "medical school yearbook." So the fact that neither Democrats nor opposition-researching Republicans looked for one, may be less surprising than initial reactions would indicate.


Then they're incompetent. They shouldn't assume anything, but actually do, you know, research!

I may be biased by the fact that I have yearbooks for all three years I was in law school. I'm not surprised that there were med school yearbooks.
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  #197  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:20 PM
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My college had a yearbook. And while it might not occur to us to look for them, well, we're not professional opposition researchers.
  #198  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
It was med school. These were adults. They didn't need a faculty advisor.

Hell, I was on the college paper during my undergraduate days in the early to mid 1970s. I don't think we even had a faculty advisor, but if we did, his role would have had to be pretty minimal, because I have no memory of such a person.
Editor, advisor, whatever - obviously a nutcase here.
  #199  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:36 PM
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I am surprised that we have yet to hear from anyone who was in med school with him or the editor of that year book. If we have that one page, we should, by now have the whole thing online.


They're too busy shredding their own copies, having looked at their own pages from 30+ years ago, and recoiledv in horror, saying "What was I thinking?!?"
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  #200  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:37 PM
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What's amazing is that it hadn't been leaked before. Any of his old classmates must have kept on old yearbook laying around somewhere, and I'm sure some of them remembered the photo - that image is kinda hard to un-see and forget. Northam's career in politics has pretty much coincided with the social media age, so it's remarkable that he made it this far without being exposed already. I guess it's only in the past few months that his profile has been big enough for his opponents to care.
Agreed.

I do understand that people generally don't look at their yearbooks much after they initially get them, BUT even if he didn't have one, SOMEONE would have had to let their kids, for instance, look at it, and the kids would say something like, "Is that the same man who's the governor?"
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