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Old 04-14-2019, 01:41 PM
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Game of Thrones "Winterfell" 8.01 4/14/19


I usually put the episode title in the thread title, but apparently HBO isn't even releasing the title to the next episode. Which seems a bit silly. But for now, we just have episode numbers.

Traditionally we've had a TV show only discussion thread, and a TV show/books/anything thread. The show is so far past the books that it's not likely to matter very much, but that method has worked for us for years now. Both threads see a lot of discussion. One talks a lot about where the books might go, and how they might differ from the show, other things that show watchers may not be interested in or may be trying to avoid (if they want to read the books after the series ends) and it just seems like we might as well just close it out using our tried and true method. Which means that this thread will be for show discussion only. I'll create another open/books thread after this.

There's no need for spoiler boxes in these threads. If the show has aired, you're free to discuss it openly. And if you're watching the west coast feed, ffs, just wait a few hours before you come back in the thread instead of acting like people are doing something wrong by posting during and after the show ends.

Here are last year's threads.

7.01 "Dragonstone"
7.02 "Stormborn"
7.03 "The Queen's Justice"
7.04 "The Spoils of War"
7.05 "Eastwatch"
7.06 Beyond The Wall
7.07 The Dragon and the Wolf

To see previous season threads, go to the episode 1 thread, where the OP will have links. And then the season 1 thread from that season will have links to the previous season. Etc.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:46 PM
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Here is the season 8 open book / show discussion thread.
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:05 PM
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What are the rules about the "next time" revelations?
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:14 PM
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Good question. I know some people think this is stupid, but a lot of people try to avoid the "next week on..." segments. Just like movie trailers, they're not made by the writers or creators of a show. They're not carefully crafted to enhance the experience, they're just doing what they can to get you to tune in. Including misleading out of context scenes and semi-spoilers.

I don't recall if we had a mod ruling on these sorts of things, but I would ask people to set least warn people when discussing future scenes that come from those clips. In that case a spoiler box would be fine, but if you don't want to do that at least let people know that's what you're talking about so people can skip over it.

Not trying to start an argument over it. Just asking people to be considerate of those of us who hate those things.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:00 PM
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So, I liked it. Lots of setup, which I was expecting, but given the truncated season I was also thinking there would probably be a bigger set piece.

Come on Torumund, you've been dealing with this shit your whole life, you're really almost going to get offed by a freshly killed corpse?
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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Glad to see Tormund's baby blue eyes . . .

The rest was pretty much setting up the board, or reminding folks of what went before.

ETA: looks like I'm just a SnarkyKong clone tonight.

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Old 04-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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"What is dead may never die" are some really discouraging parting words when you are off to fight the zombie horde.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:04 PM
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"What is dead may never die" are some really discouraging parting words when you are off to fight the zombie horde.
Especially given the response is supposed "but rises again again, harder and stronger."
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:04 PM
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It was kind like a school reunion, seeing all of these familiar characters and settings again. It was nice even seeing someone like the Hound again. And we're seeing the cracks between various clans and groups.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:05 PM
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What the hell happened to Jamie's blonde hair, where is Brienne, and can Arya just kiss Gendry already?

I liked the new open where we got to see interiors. Very nice.

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Old 04-14-2019, 09:05 PM
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Gah...I could hear the complaints in my head of the internet hordes as certain things happened. Mostly "we're wasting time on this??"

MY biggest complaint is the BSG one i had. Manufactured drama and fracturing in the face of utter annihilation. Jon should have immediatly confronted Sam and Bran and told them that no one can know about this for now. Also reiterated WHO GIVES A FUCK about the damn crown.

Overall i greatly enjoyed it. I see next week we're wasting more time on fracturing. I get Brans beef with Jaime...otherwise put a sock in it Dany.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:06 PM
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This show has really squandered reunion scenes. Last year the Jaime/Tyrion reunion could've been a really powerful scene and it was just kind of blown off. Arya/The Hound reunion was almost nothing. Sansa/Tyrion blew by with almost nothing. Jon/Arya was the bare minimum.

You can say theyre pressed for time but it was their choice to have short seasons. These scenes would've cost nothing to film. Just good writing and good acting but they pretty much just punted them.

Multiple scenes that could be some of the most powerful character scenes in the whole story basically just glossed over.

Super disappointing.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:07 PM
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What the hell happened to Jamie's blonde hair, where is Brienne, and can Arya just kiss Gendry already?

I liked the new open where we got to see interiors. Very nice.
I assume Jaimes blonde hair is hanging out with Tyrions blonde hair
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:11 PM
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Gah...I could hear the complaints in my head of the internet hordes as certain things happened. Mostly "we're wasting time on this??"

MY biggest complaint is the BSG one i had. Manufactured drama and fracturing in the face of utter annihilation. Jon should have immediatly confronted Sam and Bran and told them that no one can know about this for now. Also reiterated WHO GIVES A FUCK about the damn crown.

Overall i greatly enjoyed it. I see next week we're wasting more time on fracturing. I get Brans beef with Jaime...otherwise put a sock in it Dany.
The fracturing.. yeah. Same shit as last season really. "Hey idiots, it doesn't matter who gets called ruler, army of the dead! We'll figure that out after if any of us live."

About the reunion scenes: I liked Arya/Jon, choked up a little. Arya/Hound didn't bother me given their stoic personalities, plus it's not like they were friends or anything. I mean the last time they saw each other was Arya hoping that the Hound has a long and painful death. Arya/Gendy was a bit weak, but again Arya is stoic and probably a lot more so given her year long suppression of all emotion.

Manufactured fracturing will bother me more if it's a recurring thing especially if it's handled as poorly as it was in season 7.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:14 PM
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Oh i havent seen mentioned anywhere yet...I really like the TERavens assertiveness this season
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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It was kind like a school reunion, seeing all of these familiar characters and settings again.
After being scattered across two continents for so many seasons, it was interesting seeing almost the entire cast finally assembled in just one place. I kept waiting for one after the other to pop up.

But considering they're fighting a zombie army, I was half expecting Rick Grimes and company to show up too.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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Awful. The first episode of the final season should have been titled “Soap Opera”. Bad dialogue, overacting, trendy hair, etc. Solid contender for a daytime Emmy.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:16 PM
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What did Arya want Gendry to build for her? I couldn't make it out.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:17 PM
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I liked it and I liked that Sam just told Jon the truth the first time they met up.

In LOST, he would have looked at him with a knowing look for two more episodes before it came out. I was glad to see him just tell him the truth.

Snow had to believe it. I just wanted Sam to say, "Search your heart....you know it to be true!"
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:19 PM
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Oh, and I thought the slapstick humor of Jon's first ride on the dragon was way out tone for GoT. Plus some stupid dialog. "What do I hold onto" indeed.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:20 PM
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The fracturing.. yeah. Same shit as last season really. "Hey idiots, it doesn't matter who gets called ruler, army of the dead! We'll figure that out after if any of us live."
Five episodes left, they must need Jon to be King badly to advance the story line. Otherwise, the conversation should have had Jon asking for proof before confronting Dany. As it stands, all he really has is Bran having visions and Sam Tarley who just had his brother and father smoked by Dany. So far there is no proof beyond reasonable doubt, that would give Jon legitamacy enough to order up reinforcements from the south.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:23 PM
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What did Arya want Gendry to build for her? I couldn't make it out.
Some kind of spear? With a detachable head? I speculate she takes a poke at the Night King down the line maybe? I dunno.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:24 PM
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Oh, and I thought the slapstick humor of Jon's first ride on the dragon was way out tone for GoT. Plus some stupid dialog. "What do I hold onto" indeed.
I wanted the "Harry rides Buckbeak" music playing.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:26 PM
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Five episodes left, they must need Jon to be King badly to advance the story line. Otherwise, the conversation should have had Jon asking for proof before confronting Dany. As it stands, all he really has is Bran having visions and Sam Tarley who just had his brother and father smoked by Dany. So far there is no proof beyond reasonable doubt, that would give Jon legitamacy enough to order up reinforcements from the south.
There are no reinforcements to order up. They're all already on his side or with Cersei.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:26 PM
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I liked it. The best thing about the show is putting new characters together, and this had a ton of that. Plus some of the best former pairings. The rest of the season will probably be tragic battle scenes, and I'll miss these kinds of episodes.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:27 PM
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My not-relevant-to-the-plot-prediction: Arya and Gendry get it on before the end of the season/show. You know they want to.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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I liked it...sorta.

Seems to me the show has a lot to put to bed in seven episodes and we had precious little resolved/moved forward in this episode.

It was fun and would be fine if we knew season nine and ten were out there but they aren't. We have six more episodes left. This one did little to start wrapping things up.

Season six and seven seemed to move at a brisk pace knowing they needed to start tying up various plot strings but S8E1 seemed a little aimless and meandering.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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I thought Arya's line that Sansa is the smartest person she knows is completely unearned. In fact, I think Sansa as a smart, developed player of the game is unearned. Yes, I understand the story has progressed in such a way that that's *supposed* to be what we think, but it's just weak writing.

Consider: Sansa's moment where she's supposed to have a triumphant scene in which she has grown into being a player in the game is when she showed up at the last minute with the Knights of the Vale and wins the battle of Winterfell. Oh, everyone discounted poor Sansa, but she's actually super smart and saved the day.

Bullshit.

We had a specific scene in which Jon is arguing/planning out the Battle of Winterfell, and Sansa is a major player in that scene. She complains that no one asks her advice, that she's never given proper respect as a powerful person and a player of the game. So Jon said "okay, so what's your advice then?" and she says something like "I don't know. I don't know battles or war. I just know that Ramsay is tricky... so be prepared for something tricky." - Yeah, thanks. You whine that no one asks you your advice, then when finally someone does, you have nothing. Not only that, but you were sitting on the information that could've totally swung the battle - that Littlefinger's Knights of the Vale were in play. And you decided not to tell Jon. Because you're an idiot and you were basically trying to lose the battle on purpose with your stupidity.

The army Jon scraped up together was personally loyal to him. If Jon had fell, that army would've immediately disintegrated. And the only thing that saved Jon was plot armor. He should've died. The battle of Winterfell should've been lost. Sansa should've rolled up with her super smart for hiding it secret weapon to find them too late.

And yet the scene is played off as triumphant. Oh, look at Sansa, she's so smart, she saved the day! She really has grown up into a player in the Game of Thrones!

Fuck that noise, that's a massive "show don't tell" violation. You're telling us Sansa has grown up, become super smart, and become a powerful force. But what you've shown does not indicate that. Just bad writing.

In other news, Jon should do one of two things: Either tell everyone "it doesn't matter who the rightful king is, we can't waste time squabbling over that shit" or he should usurp/depose/kill Dany. Dany is a very flawed queen, and I honestly don't know if the writers understand this. Maybe it'll become a plot point, and maybe they'll just gloss over it. I don't expect them to handle this one well.

She's arrogant. She's more concerned with being shown the proper respect and playing bullshit political games and have people treat her with reverance than she is about doing everything she can to fight for the living. We've seen that Jon is truly the leader they need - he has no ego, he doesn't give a shit about his own position or power or glory, he is completely dedicated to fulfilling the role thrust upon him to defeat the Night King. Jon is the king the world needs, and Danerys is way too attached to southern games and meaningless political bullshit and having everyone show the proper deference for her royalty. Jon deposing/killing/whatever Danerys would be fully justified, in both a practical way, and in terms of the rules of royalty, if anyone even gives a shit about that anymore. I don't think this is going to happen, but that's the direction they should be going.

Instead, I suspect that Dany's flaws will not cost her and that she'll end up being triumphant and right and wise, just because the writers have decided that she is right and wise, and not because she's earned it. Just like Sansa.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:32 PM
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I am glad that they didn't drag it out with JonAegon/
I am also curious what Arya wanted Gendry to make
And yay for heroic Theon

Sansa has a point about supplies, but I'm not expecting a long war. (If they defeat the WW, will spring return?)
It does make sense that hey didn't bring supplies -- the Dothraki probably count on pillaging and the Unsullied are used to starving (though that has likely changed)

Brian
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:33 PM
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I hope they have the time to close out all those minor characters. I would like to know the fates Robin, the Sand Snakes and Edmure since we now know Jamie didn’t rally the Riverlords. I can’t tell if they should have put more work into this episode or not since the all the reunions and setting up new minor plot points had to be extremely unwieldy. The lineage reveal scene with John and Sam in the crypts was satisfying but the other reunion scenes ending too quickly or were generally mediocre. At least I have five more Sundays to look forward to though and I’m hoping the season ages well.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:34 PM
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My not-relevant-to-the-plot-prediction: Arya and Gendry get it on before the end of the season/show. You know they want to.
I think it would be weird. Arya has never evinced an interest in being girly and getting with a boy (womanly/man). Yeah they are flirting and it hearkens back to a very early episode but really...Arya till now seems to have had zero interest in sex. It just isn't on her radar.

Sansa I could buy it. Not that she is a floozy (far from it) but she is far more feminine than Arya's Tom Boy (and I know Tom Boy's are still women and still interested in sex but Arya hasn't been till now).
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:36 PM
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I was just joking with my wife that Jaime Lannister should show up and see Bran.

Then he did. We both laughed and cheered.

We could work for this show.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:37 PM
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I thought Arya's line that Sansa is the smartest person she knows is completely unearned. In fact, I think Sansa as a smart, developed player of the game is unearned. Yes, I understand the story has progressed in such a way that that's *supposed* to be what we think, but it's just weak writing.

Consider: Sansa's moment where she's supposed to have a triumphant scene in which she has grown into being a player in the game is when she showed up at the last minute with the Knights of the Vale and wins the battle of Winterfell. Oh, everyone discounted poor Sansa, but she's actually super smart and saved the day.

Bullshit.

We had a specific scene in which Jon is arguing/planning out the Battle of Winterfell, and Sansa is a major player in that scene. She complains that no one asks her advice, that she's never given proper respect as a powerful person and a player of the game. So Jon said "okay, so what's your advice then?" and she says something like "I don't know. I don't know battles or war. I just know that Ramsay is tricky... so be prepared for something tricky." - Yeah, thanks. You whine that no one asks you your advice, then when finally someone does, you have nothing. Not only that, but you were sitting on the information that could've totally swung the battle - that Littlefinger's Knights of the Vale were in play. And you decided not to tell Jon. Because you're an idiot and you were basically trying to lose the battle on purpose with your stupidity.

The army Jon scraped up together was personally loyal to him. If Jon had fell, that army would've immediately disintegrated. And the only thing that saved Jon was plot armor. He should've died. The battle of Winterfell should've been lost. Sansa should've rolled up with her super smart for hiding it secret weapon to find them too late.

And yet the scene is played off as triumphant. Oh, look at Sansa, she's so smart, she saved the day! She really has grown up into a player in the Game of Thrones!

Fuck that noise, that's a massive "show don't tell" violation. You're telling us Sansa has grown up, become super smart, and become a powerful force. But what you've shown does not indicate that. Just bad writing.

In other news, Jon should do one of two things: Either tell everyone "it doesn't matter who the rightful king is, we can't waste time squabbling over that shit" or he should usurp/depose/kill Dany. Dany is a very flawed queen, and I honestly don't know if the writers understand this. Maybe it'll become a plot point, and maybe they'll just gloss over it. I don't expect them to handle this one well.

She's arrogant. She's more concerned with being shown the proper respect and playing bullshit political games and have people treat her with reverance than she is about doing everything she can to fight for the living. We've seen that Jon is truly the leader they need - he has no ego, he doesn't give a shit about his own position or power or glory, he is completely dedicated to fulfilling the role thrust upon him to defeat the Night King. Jon is the king the world needs, and Danerys is way too attached to southern games and meaningless political bullshit and having everyone show the proper deference for her royalty. Jon deposing/killing/whatever Danerys would be fully justified, in both a practical way, and in terms of the rules of royalty, if anyone even gives a shit about that anymore. I don't think this is going to happen, but that's the direction they should be going.

Instead, I suspect that Dany's flaws will not cost her and that she'll end up being triumphant and right and wise, just because the writers have decided that she is right and wise, and not because she's earned it. Just like Sansa.
I agree with all of this. Although I'm not sure when's the last time we've seen good strategy out of anyone. Littlefinger engineering a Bolton/Barratheon (Lannister) split in season 5? Most victories since then have been deus ex dragon or magical armada.

In comparison to Tyrion believing Cersei or him hatching the absolutely ludicrous "capture a wight" plot, Sansa knowing where Northern loyalty lies and not to trust Cersei is pretty smart.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:39 PM
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I thought Arya's line that Sansa is the smartest person she knows is completely unearned. In fact, I think Sansa as a smart, developed player of the game is unearned. Yes, I understand the story has progressed in such a way that that's *supposed* to be what we think, but it's just weak writing.

Consider: Sansa's moment where she's supposed to have a triumphant scene in which she has grown into being a player in the game is when she showed up at the last minute with the Knights of the Vale and wins the battle of Winterfell. Oh, everyone discounted poor Sansa, but she's actually super smart and saved the day.

Bullshit.

We had a specific scene in which Jon is arguing/planning out the Battle of Winterfell, and Sansa is a major player in that scene. She complains that no one asks her advice, that she's never given proper respect as a powerful person and a player of the game. So Jon said "okay, so what's your advice then?" and she says something like "I don't know. I don't know battles or war. I just know that Ramsay is tricky... so be prepared for something tricky." - Yeah, thanks. You whine that no one asks you your advice, then when finally someone does, you have nothing. Not only that, but you were sitting on the information that could've totally swung the battle - that Littlefinger's Knights of the Vale were in play. And you decided not to tell Jon. Because you're an idiot and you were basically trying to lose the battle on purpose with your stupidity.

The army Jon scraped up together was personally loyal to him. If Jon had fell, that army would've immediately disintegrated. And the only thing that saved Jon was plot armor. He should've died. The battle of Winterfell should've been lost. Sansa should've rolled up with her super smart for hiding it secret weapon to find them too late.

And yet the scene is played off as triumphant. Oh, look at Sansa, she's so smart, she saved the day! She really has grown up into a player in the Game of Thrones!

Fuck that noise, that's a massive "show don't tell" violation. You're telling us Sansa has grown up, become super smart, and become a powerful force. But what you've shown does not indicate that. Just bad writing.

In other news, Jon should do one of two things: Either tell everyone "it doesn't matter who the rightful king is, we can't waste time squabbling over that shit" or he should usurp/depose/kill Dany. Dany is a very flawed queen, and I honestly don't know if the writers understand this. Maybe it'll become a plot point, and maybe they'll just gloss over it. I don't expect them to handle this one well.

She's arrogant. She's more concerned with being shown the proper respect and playing bullshit political games and have people treat her with reverance than she is about doing everything she can to fight for the living. We've seen that Jon is truly the leader they need - he has no ego, he doesn't give a shit about his own position or power or glory, he is completely dedicated to fulfilling the role thrust upon him to defeat the Night King. Jon is the king the world needs, and Danerys is way too attached to southern games and meaningless political bullshit and having everyone show the proper deference for her royalty. Jon deposing/killing/whatever Danerys would be fully justified, in both a practical way, and in terms of the rules of royalty, if anyone even gives a shit about that anymore. I don't think this is going to happen, but that's the direction they should be going.

Instead, I suspect that Dany's flaws will not cost her and that she'll end up being triumphant and right and wise, just because the writers have decided that she is right and wise, and not because she's earned it. Just like Sansa.
Nah. Dany aint making it. And i suspect she'll go out a boss.

I agree that Dany is flawed and we did see a change after she rescued Jon...but that seems to have backpedeled a little.

I HOPE we don't see anymore 'rightful king/queen' bullshit. Im guessing battle of Winterfell takes up ep 3 and the good guys get their asses kicked. I hope they do cause if not we get 3 more eps of Gaming of Thrones and Im really done with Gaming of Thrones.

I just want to see Ragnarok and roll here on out after they wrap up what to do with a guy who pushes a little boy out of a window.
  #35  
Old 04-14-2019, 09:40 PM
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I thought Arya's line that Sansa is the smartest person she knows is completely unearned. In fact, I think Sansa as a smart, developed player of the game is unearned. Yes, I understand the story has progressed in such a way that that's *supposed* to be what we think, but it's just weak writing.

Consider: Sansa's moment where she's supposed to have a triumphant scene in which she has grown into being a player in the game is when she showed up at the last minute with the Knights of the Vale and wins the battle of Winterfell. Oh, everyone discounted poor Sansa, but she's actually super smart and saved the day.

Bullshit.
I think we are to get it from Sansa out-playing Little Finger (Lord Baelish) at his own game in season 7. Sansa says she is a "slow learner but she does learn" (right before Baelish gets his throat slit by Arya).

As an aside the fan theory I am going with is that Baelish is still alive. What we saw was a Faceless Man get it.
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  #36  
Old 04-14-2019, 09:40 PM
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I do think that the one specific observation - that Sansa scoffed at the idea that Cersei would send help, was earned. If there is one thing Sansa does know, it's Cersei. I just think almost every other instance of having us expect us to treat her as an intellectual/game playing equal as the great players is unearned.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:44 PM
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When Arya said that about Sansa, I was......totally stunned. I'm thinking, wait...who has she met?

Ned Stark was certainly smarter. And Tyrion. And John. And almost everyone she knows or met. The faceless people were probably smarter on some level. Bran knows almost everything now. Certainly Brienne is smarter.

Who has she met dumber than Sansa? That chubby guy who cooks really well? Cooking is a skill, no need to count him out. Gendry is clearly at least Sansa's equal.

She met Littlefinger, too. Yep, smarter than Sansa.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
I think we are to get it from Sansa out-playing Little Finger (Lord Baelish) at his own game in season 7. Sansa says she is a "slow learner but she does learn" (right before Baelish gets his throat slit by Arya).

As an aside my personal fan theory I am going with is that Baelish is still alive. What we saw was a Faceless Man get it.
I think this is true, but it doesn't feel earned because it's obvious on its face that Arya isn't trying to usurp Sansa to be Lady of Winterfell. Sure, she figured it out, but that never made sense in the show, just manufactured drama because the writing last season was very poor.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:48 PM
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I was just joking with my wife that Jaime Lannister should show up and see Bran.

Then he did. We both laughed and cheered.

We could work for this show.
While I can see it is uncomfortable for Jamie I seriously doubt Bran gives a shit at this point.

He would not be the three-eyed raven at this point if it hadn't happened and Bran is pretty much past petty revenge stuff. He'll probably thank Jamie while noting Jamie was a shit for pushing him out a window.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:49 PM
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I would like to know the fates Robin, the Sand Snakes and Edmure since we now know Jamie didn’t rally the Riverlords.
Considering the number of other more important characters who have to be accounted for in this season, I don't think Robin or Edmure are interesting enough to merit any screen time, especially since they are entirely irrelevant to the plot at this point. The Sand Snakes are all now dead. Ellaria Sand is still alive in Cersei's dungeon. I wouldn't be too surprised to see her surface, either to escape and try to take revenge, or for Cersei to finally kill her in some especially grotesque manner - maybe Qyburn trying out some new poison.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:50 PM
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I think this is true, but it doesn't feel earned because it's obvious on its face that Arya isn't trying to usurp Sansa to be Lady of Winterfell. Sure, she figured it out, but that never made sense in the show, just manufactured drama because the writing last season was very poor.
I think Sansa and Arya were playing at being at odds with each other to throw Baelish off. All the while Sansa and Arya were in cahoots and perfectly fine with each other. Sansa is not worried about Arya trying to become the Lady of Winterfell. Arya doesn't want it at all anyway.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:55 PM
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When Arya said that about Sansa, I was......totally stunned. I'm thinking, wait...who has she met?

Ned Stark was certainly smarter. And Tyrion. And John. And almost everyone she knows or met. The faceless people were probably smarter on some level. Bran knows almost everything now. Certainly Brienne is smarter.

Who has she met dumber than Sansa? That chubby guy who cooks really well? Cooking is a skill, no need to count him out. Gendry is clearly at least Sansa's equal.

She met Littlefinger, too. Yep, smarter than Sansa.
LOL. What? Ned Stark was dumb as a post. Jon is too. Tyrions plans have all gone to shit the last two years.

Littlefinger was a pyschopathic moron who should have quit when he held sway over about 35% of the seven kingdoms. Instead he thought he could just keep rebooting and eventually sit on the Iron Throne. And now he's dead too.

Was Aryas statement about Sansa true? I can see it from her POV. She survived. Also Arya is going to stick up for her sister after years of underestimating her big sister.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:55 PM
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I think Sansa and Arya were playing at being at odds with each other to throw Baelish off. All the while Sansa and Arya were in cahoots and perfectly fine with each other. Sansa is not worried about Arya trying to become the Lady of Winterfell. Arya doesn't want it at all anyway.
They did it in private several times. It was bs for the camera.

Bruce Wayne, Euron killed two of the three sandsnakes in episode 1 of season 7. The third was murdered by Cersei in a dungeon beneath the Red Keep.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:56 PM
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Jamie and Bran were the last scene of the first episode of the first season so it makes a nice symmetry.

What possible good could Jamie imagine would come from showing up at Winterfell without an army to support the fight? He knows that most important people there have a reason to mistrust and hate him.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:58 PM
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Jamie and Bran were the last scene of the first episode of the first season so it makes a nice symmetry.

What possible good could Jamie imagine would come from showing up at Winterfell without an army to support the fight? He knows that most important people there have a reason to mistrust and hate him.
His 'honor' demands he show up and at least give the bad news and to 'die fighting for the living'.
  #46  
Old 04-14-2019, 09:59 PM
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While I can see it is uncomfortable for Jamie I seriously doubt Bran gives a shit at this point.
And I think that is how it will play out. It's kind of a fake tension moment for us because Bran hardly identifies as the same Bran that got thrown out of the tower anymore.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:02 PM
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I thought the boy climbing the tree to see the approaching Queen was a nice callback to Bran and Arya climbing things to watch Robert approach Winterfell in the pilot.
  #48  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:03 PM
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LOL. What? Ned Stark was dumb as a post. Jon is too.
There are a few times in the show where it is noted these were good men but dumb men.

Indeed we get it at the end of season 7 where Cersei asks Jon to sit things out in Winterfell after the White Walkers are dealt with and Jon says he has pledged his allegiance to Danni so no can do.

After that pretty much everyone, including Danni, tells him he is noble to adhere to his ideals but he is an idiot who really needs to learn when to lie.

Jon ignores them all and insists his way is the right way.
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Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 04-14-2019 at 10:04 PM.
  #49  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:04 PM
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And I think that is how it will play out. It's kind of a fake tension moment for us because Bran hardly identifies as the same Bran that got thrown out of the tower anymore.
I dunnoooo. Like i said earlier. He's more assertive this season. You might be right that he doesn't even bother to let anyone know and all the tension comes from Dany being pissed about the Lannisters no-showing. Tyrion sure looks genuinely worried for Jaime next ep.
  #50  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:06 PM
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There are a few times in the show where it is noted these were good men but dumb men.

Indeed we get it at the end of season 7 where Cersei asks Jon to sit things out in Winterfell after the White Walkers are dealt with and Jon says he has pledged his allegiance to Danni so no can do.

After that pretty much everyone, including Danni, tells him he is noble to adhere to his ideals but he is an idiot who really needs to learn when to lie.

Jon ignores them all and insists his way is the right way.
Got Jon killed too.

But i do love me some Jon Snow. He's my pool choice for winning GoT.
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