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Old 04-28-2019, 09:29 AM
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Assuming Biden gets the Democratic nomination, who would be the VP nominee?


Assuming Biden gets the nomination (and I admit that is no small assumption), who would his VP nominee be? Or maybe it's better to ask who should the nominee be?

One school of thought might be to have the person appeal to voters in key swing states or regions. Amy Klobuchar comes to mind.

Another could be, 'we need someone to appeal to the young, to our more progressive friends and partners', so maybe Kamala Harris? But not Cory Booker since the VP nominee must a woman if Biden (or any other man) is the presidential candidate. Bernie would not do for this and several other reasons (see below).

Nominating Elizabeth Warren (in my opinion a fine person and leader) would serve only to satisfy the already convinced but inflame and solidify the Republican* opposition. So, politically speaking she must be avoided despite all the good she might bring. We live in the real world where slavish adherence to a principle can lead you to become a slave not just to the principle but to others' practice.

(*Republican, Trumpist, a rose by another name).

Stacey Abrams would be interesting but, again, like Warren, would be a net negative politically (IMO).

I guess at the end of the day, it will be a replay of what's happening with the Presidential candidate: go for the future with someone young and 'left'? Or go for the real world win?
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:17 AM
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When I heard that Buttigieg called out Pence I imagined his role as the VP candidate. One of those you-take-Trump, I-got-Pence kind of deals.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:02 AM
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If the nominee is Biden, Sanders, or Warren, they absolutely need a young VP, given that the VP's primary job is to literally not die, and those three are all old enough that death or other serious health issues are a significant chance.

The other main thing you want in a VP is a fighter: Someone who will take the gloves off, while you yourself remain statesmanlike.

I don't necessarily think that the VP needs to balance the President demographically, other than age. It's critically important that both of them need to be able to relate to people of all demographics, but you don't need to be a member of a demographic yourself to do so. Take, for instance, O'Rourke vs. Cruz: The Irish O'Rourke was able to relate to Hispanics, while the Hispanic Cruz wasn't.

Personally, I'd still like to see Tammy Duckworth as a VP candidate. She's young, tough, energetic, a veteran, and doesn't pull punches.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:20 AM
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IIRC, Booker has promised to pick a female V.P. if he's the nominee, but I don't think this need apply to Biden.

How about Biden-Booker? (Would this be too geographically close, Delaware and New Jersey?) We'll know more when we've seen some debates, but if Booker is stronger than Harris it would be silly to give the nod to Harris just because she's female, IMHO.

Fortunately, Biden has several weeks left before he needs to make that decision. Do pick a youngish charismatic person who appeals to the progressive base, not a bland Tim Kaine-type.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:26 AM
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As of today, Buttigieg. Biden doesn’t need someone with Capital Hill experience since he has plenty. Also, Buttogieg is young and enthusiastic enough to go to those more remote areas where the VP candidate often goes. Also, a statewide office in blood red Indiana isn’t likely so he finds his pathway blocked unless he gets a cabinet slot.

Perhaps Beto if he recovers. His star seems to be fading fast and I’m not sure if Beto wants another Senate race where he will probably lose.
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Old 04-28-2019, 12:35 PM
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Kirsten Gillibrand may be moderate enough to run with Biden. She was a Blue Dog Democrat during her time in the House. I can easily see her working well with Biden.

She's a strong advocate for women and that would help Biden in that demographic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsten_Gillibrand

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-28-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 04-28-2019, 12:48 PM
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Personally, I'd still like to see Tammy Duckworth as a VP candidate. She's young, tough, energetic, a veteran, and doesn't pull punches.
No she doesn't. She is the originator of the term "Cadet Bone Spurs".
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:04 PM
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Tammy won't like Biden either. High school athlete and played one year in college on the Blue Hens freshman football team. He still got a health deferment.

I don't think Biden's campaign will say much about Trump ducking the draft.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

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Biden attended the Archmere Academy in Claymont[19] where he was a standout halfback/wide receiver on the high school football team; he helped lead a perennially losing team to an undefeated season in his senior year.
Quote:
Biden received student draft deferments during this period, at the peak of the Vietnam War,[and in 1968, he was reclassified by the Selective Service System as not available for service due to having had asthma as a teenager.

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Old 04-28-2019, 01:25 PM
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:36 PM
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I was starting to root for a Booker-Buttigieg ticket, but then Booker boxed himself in by committing to a woman running mate. Nothing wrong with having a woman as a running mate, and I've been saying there needs to be a woman on the ticket for months. But the more I've watched Pete, I like him as a #2. Cory and Pete would've been formidable, imo.

I don't think Pete would be a good pairing with Biden, though. I think a ticket with two white guys would be very deflating to a lot of Dem voters.

For Biden, a candidate with more inside-Washington experience than anyone else, I think he has a lot of room to look outside the box for his running mate. He doesn't necessarily have to look to the current crop of candidates to run with.

I like Tammy Duckworth too. I like her for pretty much any and all of the current front-runners. (Incidentally, Duckworth currently occupies Obama's old Senate seat, which doesn't mean anything, but would make for an interesting bit of trivia should the two team up.)

I'd also like to see a sun-belter or Latina paired up with Biden. I think he'll already do well with white industrial midwesterners and African Americans, but I'd like to see someone that will really, really inspire Latinos to turn up.

Maybe Hilda Solis? (Former rep from CA, Obama's Labor Secretary, currently Los Angeles County Supervisor)
Maybe Rep. Nanette Barragan?
Maybe former Asst. AG and resistance hero Sally Yates? (Ran the day-to-day operations of the DoJ while she was asst. AG, and was fired by Trump for refusing to enforce the Muslim ban)
Or maybe he could go the route of a young AA like Stacy Abrams or Anthony Foxx.
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:39 PM
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There have been stories that Biden would choose Stacey Abrams, but she has said she hasn't spoken to him about it.
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:44 PM
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IIRC, Booker has promised to pick a female V.P. if he's the nominee, but I don't think this need apply to Biden.

How about Biden-Booker? (Would this be too geographically close, Delaware and New Jersey?) We'll know more when we've seen some debates, but if Booker is stronger than Harris it would be silly to give the nod to Harris just because she's female, IMHO.

Fortunately, Biden has several weeks left before he needs to make that decision. Do pick a youngish charismatic person who appeals to the progressive base, not a bland Tim Kaine-type.
Biden/Booker would be my choice for now. Donna Brazile said around the time she was chairperson of the DNC that she nearly threw her weight behind a Biden/Booker ticket. I'm loving Buttigieg, but two white men?
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:47 PM
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There have been stories that Biden would choose Stacey Abrams, but she has said she hasn't spoken to him about it.
Maybe Andrew Gillum, too.
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:47 PM
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I would vote for Sally Yates in a heartbeat.
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:51 PM
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Tammy Duckworth was born in Thailand. Could she be VP, considering that she might be thrust into the #1 spot?
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Old 04-28-2019, 01:58 PM
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Tammy Duckworth was born in Thailand. Could she be VP, considering that she might be thrust into the #1 spot?
Yes, she's a natural born citizen by virtue of an American father.
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Old 04-28-2019, 03:16 PM
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How many times do I have to post this (before the orders for lawn signs start rolling in)?

BIDEN & BETO

N E V E R _ F O R G E T T O
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Old 04-28-2019, 04:32 PM
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I'd like to see Julian Castro. About time a Latino got on a ticket, he's a very likeable guy and a good speaker. He's more charismatic than Pence (of course, so is a steaming pile of dog shit) and would do well in the traditional but useless vice-presidential debate. He's young and I think would be attractive to progressives. Plus, Biden has one twice on national tickets running with someone whose last name is or resembles that of one of the US' adversaries, why stop a good thing?
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Old 04-28-2019, 04:42 PM
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I'm all for Biden/Buttigieg. Biden (wish he was just a few years younger) with his 40+ years at politics will need some young, progressive blood along side of him. Pete is all civil rights, gun control, environmental, etc. The young vote will love it.

One thing about the age difference though, would Buttigieg be able to do a good job as president if something unfortunate happens to Joe? I think he can, mainly because he would be the guy to mend fences with our on-the-fence allies.

I'd settle for Warren, though. Liz is... well, she's a political cannon. Civil rights, environmental, education, much like Buttigieg, and I think young voting women will jump on that ticket. It may also mend some mistrust for Biden among women. And I wouldn't mind Warren taking over for Biden if needed.
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:15 PM
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Buttigieg is amazing: Rhodes Scholar (so is Booker), veteran (like Duckworth), speaks about 8 languages (like nobody else that I know of), regular churchgoer (Episcopalian), non-pussy-grabber. He is riveting to listen to.
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:16 PM
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This is a great run-down on issues:

https://www.politico.com/interactive...stands-issues/
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:25 PM
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Buttigieg would make a much better VP choice than he would President, but I think I'd still rather see some more experience on him before propelling him to such lofty heights. I wouldn't be surprised to see him as President someday, but he's got a lot of time ahead of him. Before then, he really ought to go for a Senate seat or the governorship (which, yes, would be an uphill climb, but that's how you prove yourself, and it's not impossible), or at the very least a House seat.
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:55 PM
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Biden appeals to the Obama-Trump voters and even the Romney-Clinton ones well enough. He polls better than others with Black voters too.

I’d first go with someone able to step in and who is also a peace offering to the younger and more progressive side of the party trying to keep their enthusiasm up. Not Warren or Sanders. Need a bit younger.

That said damn I like Duckworth. I’d bet on Harris though.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:24 PM
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What's an Obama-Trump voter?
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:28 PM
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What's an Obama-Trump voter?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama-Trump_voters
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:29 PM
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Oh shit, can't you just tell me?
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:31 PM
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The answer is in the name. A voter who voted for both Obama and Trump.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:32 PM
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Thanks.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:04 PM
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Stacy Abrams would be ticket-balancing Niirvana; a young, progressive minority woman from the South. Or if you want to go with a bit more experience, consider Tammy Baldwin. Duckworth is another possibility, but probably too moderate to go with Biden; she'd be an ideal running mate for Bernie.

Of course, it probably doesn't really matter much, as very few people will actually vote for or against the VICE Presidential candidate. Just don't pick the Democratic equivalent of Sarah Palin, and all will be well.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:24 PM
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The answer is in the name. A voter who voted for both Obama and Trump.
I see. I see. And is this character from a Kafka or maybe a Prachett novel?
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:28 PM
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I see. I see. And is this character from a Kafka or maybe a Prachett novel?
This is exactly why I posted a Wikipedia link rather than just giving the definition.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:26 AM
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Stacy Abrams would be ticket-balancing Niirvana; a young, progressive minority woman from the South. Or if you want to go with a bit more experience, consider Tammy Baldwin. Duckworth is another possibility, but probably too moderate to go with Biden; she'd be an ideal running mate for Bernie.

Of course, it probably doesn't really matter much, as very few people will actually vote for or against the VICE Presidential candidate. Just don't pick the Democratic equivalent of Sarah Palin, and all will be well.
As a longtime fan of McCain, one reason I love Biden is because they have similar thought processes, with Biden being somewhat less impulsive, but still a lot more impulsive than your average politician. So a Sarah Palin-type candidate, one that brings more excitement than competence and causes voters to worry about if the old guy kicks it, is a very real possibility. And you suggested Stacy Abrams, which proves the point. Like Palin a good candidate on paper, but with no national profile, even less experience than Palin, and one who is already being a little thick in interviews. Plus, why would you bother with Abrams when you can just pick Kamala Harris?

There are two routes Biden can go: his heart, in which case he goes for the excitement factor: Harris, Duckworth, maybe even Charlie Crist(former Republican on a quasi-unity ticket that really isn't since Crist is a fairly liberal Dem these days?)

The other route is what Democrats always do, with the exception of John Kerry picking Edwards: go with the safe choice that does the ticket no harm and gives voters confidence that everything will be fine if the President dies. Given that Biden will be 77, he has to go this route. Tim Kaine, Mark Warner, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar.

Probably the best combination of exciting and competent is Cory Booker or Deval Patrick.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:05 AM
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Given that both Trump and Obama won their elections, it should come as no great surprise that there are some folks who voted for both. And while it might be a small group, it's an important one, because such people could be convinced to switch back for the right Democratic candidate, and thus be instrumental in defeating Trump. It might be difficult to understand the mindset of such a voter, but we have to understand them anyway.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:55 AM
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Adaher, if you think that Abrams’ performance in interviews is comparable to Palin’s, well...our milage is varying.

I’m assuming that Harris would consider the VP slot a step down at this point in her career. But if she would take the job, sure, she’s a good option.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:07 PM
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A lot of people will pick due to the vice president. A lot of Trump's support in the Evangelical sector was due to Pence, who could fill in the gaps religious gaps.

The safe choices adaher gives are all centrists, I believe. That gives the progressives no one to support. And we know better this time than to think they'll all just hold their nose and vote for the closest to their goals. Bringing on a progressive VP is more useful for any centrist candidate. Similarly, any establishment candidate should bring in an "outsider" type.

It also would be good for Biden to bring in a woman, due to that being a weak area for him.

Part of what lost last time was choosing the "safe bet," with Tim Kaine, who no one cared about. Pulling in a fiery progressive would have very much helped Clinton among the Democratic base and undermined a lot of attacks from the progressive side.

Last edited by BigT; 04-29-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:06 PM
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Given that both Trump and Obama won their elections, it should come as no great surprise that there are some folks who voted for both. And while it might be a small group, it's an important one, because such people could be convinced to switch back for the right Democratic candidate, and thus be instrumental in defeating Trump. It might be difficult to understand the mindset of such a voter, but we have to understand them anyway.
I can't see that. I'm pretty sure that none of the pickup truck drivers here you voted for Trump didn't vote for Obama. Nor can I see the local soccer moms who voted for Obama voting for the misogynist Trump.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:18 PM
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Buttigieg is amazing: Rhodes Scholar (so is Booker), veteran (like Duckworth), speaks about 8 languages (like nobody else that I know of), regular churchgoer (Episcopalian), non-pussy-grabber. He is riveting to listen to.
I saw him doing a message in sign language the other day.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:21 PM
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Seems like people are forgetting Biden's age.

That was a big concern with the McCain/Palin ticket. The possibility of President Palin scared a lot of voters.

A politically inexperienced VP is not desirable imho. Buttigieg and Beto wouldn't work as VP candidates on the ticket.

Last edited by aceplace57; 04-29-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:27 PM
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Palin's drawbacks included lots more than political experience. If the political experience concern is regarding Pete, he's not a good comparison to Palin. As has been mentioned, he's multilingual. Palin could barely form a coherent sentence in one language.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:35 PM
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So, carnivorousplant, just how do you think the White House changed parties? It wasn't all turnout.
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Old 04-30-2019, 12:32 AM
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Given that both Trump and Obama won their elections, it should come as no great surprise that there are some folks who voted for both. And while it might be a small group, it's an important one, because such people could be convinced to switch back for the right Democratic candidate, and thus be instrumental in defeating Trump. It might be difficult to understand the mindset of such a voter, but we have to understand them anyway.
There are more Americans who will refuse to vote for a black man than who would refuse to vote for a woman. HOWEVER, anti-blacks are mostly going to vote for the GOP no matter what, while the anti-women voters are more evenly split between parties.

Much of the anti-Hillary propaganda just provided excuses for anti-woman votes the voter would want to make anyway.

Now that the Kremlin-GOP alliance has found its winning formula, be prepared for non-stop bullshit if the nominee is a woman. (For example, Kamala's gun and Elizabeth's Indian heritage would get no traction if they weren't perceived as connecting to female foibles.)

Normally the VP slot is much less important than the Big Job, but if the (nearly-octogenarian) Biden is the nominee and picks a woman, expect the liars to drone on and on and on with the message "Old Joe is practically on his death bed already. Look at who were stuck with when he croaks."

(ETA: Female VP is much less of a concern if the Pres. nominee is a younger man.)

Last edited by septimus; 04-30-2019 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:32 AM
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I'd put forth a Latina politician who is lesser known on a national stage but who has decent progressive credentials, Representative Linda SŠnchez (D-CA). She's a current member of the House Ways and Means Committee (a committee pushing for release of Trump tax records), former Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus, previous ranking member on the House Ethics Committee, and daughter of Mexican immigrants. She is a lawyer by training and a former editor of the Chicano-Latino Law Review at UCLA.

She has solid Democratic positions on the issues with some progressive tilt, a solid 0% rating from the National Right to Life Committee, a 100% rating from the NAACP, favors expunging first time drug convictions after probation is served, supported same sex marriage before Obama including calling out the injustice that immigration law did not then allow immigration sponsorship of same sex partners, and supports gun control.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:01 AM
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Adaher, if you think that Abramsí performance in interviews is comparable to Palinís, well...our milage is varying.
That's because Democrats don't get quizzed. Although she misses on the most basic question of all: whether she won the election or not. She could get away with saying, "I don't know what the result would be without voter suppression", but to say she won is nearly disqualifying, IMO, akin to Trump's millions of illegals comment.

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Iím assuming that Harris would consider the VP slot a step down at this point in her career. But if she would take the job, sure, sheís a good option.
Anyone running now will take the job. It clearly places them next in line for the next election, win or lose, barring the entry of a more exciting candidate, and such a candidate does not exist right now.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:28 AM
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I can't see that. I'm pretty sure that none of the pickup truck drivers here you voted for Trump didn't vote for Obama. Nor can I see the local soccer moms who voted for Obama voting for the misogynist Trump.
Numbers from another thread.

These are not insignificant numbers. See them now?
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:28 AM
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I like Mayor Pete, but in terms of strategy, I don't think he would add much to the ticket that Biden doesn't already have. Biden's an aging white male moderate from rust belt territory. Biden would probably immediately tilt PA in the Democrats' direction just with his presence, and I think Trump won Michigan mainly because of very poor Dem turnout, which would probably not be the case this time around. According to my math, winning PA and MI would put Biden at or around 269. He would need to break Trump in WI, FL, or OH, which won't be easy, but it'll be easier if he can expand his base a little, which is why I think he'd probably do well either with a woman or a person of color -- possibly a woman of color to check both boxes. But a woman of color who is perceived as having enough electability and political know-how to be respected on the national stage, which leads me to Kamala Harris. I'm sure there is a case to be made for others, but even with some of her baggage, I think she'd be a strong asset in terms of energizing voters that Hillary overlooked.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:36 AM
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Missed the edit window:

Others Biden could possibly consider are Corey Booker, Elizabeth Warren, and Julian Castro. Yes, I know I have written off Warren as a presidential candidate, but nobody can deny that she has a committed fan base and she can light a fire under some asses. I also think that as a veep she'd be in a different position. Trump would no doubt mock "Pocahontas" but it would look a little bit 'off' going after a vice presidential candidate rather than the guy standing in front of him. And I don't see Mike Pence having any sort of charisma or personality that would enable him to take down Warren in a debate. I think Warren would straight up own his ass. Biden and Warren wouldn't be my first choice but it could work because it would be asymmetrical warfare.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:46 AM
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Iím curious: say you wanted Trump to win, and say you got to tap anyone from the current Top Ten among the Democrats. Who, in that case, would you figure is the one most likely to torpedo anti-Trump hopes?
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:58 AM
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Probably Peter Buttigieg. IDR who exactly, but either Harris or Warren hate Sanders.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I like Mayor Pete, but in terms of strategy, I don't think he would add much to the ticket that Biden doesn't already have. Biden's an aging white male moderate from rust belt territory. Biden would probably immediately tilt PA in the Democrats' direction just with his presence, and I think Trump won Michigan mainly because of very poor Dem turnout, which would probably not be the case this time around. According to my math, winning PA and MI would put Biden at or around 269. He would need to break Trump in WI, FL, or OH, which won't be easy ...
Yes to that Northern Path with WI much more likely than OH.

Which maybe elevates Tammy Baldwin?
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:44 AM
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If Biden or another Dem wins, I don't want it to be with a handful of electors; I want a comfortable multi-state victory with an EV count well into the 300s. I don't want Trump to scream "rigged!" and then try to whip up his base into frenzy, believing that they truly won the election and got robbed.
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