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  #51  
Old 05-05-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
OK, so here's the experiment: Out of my free will, I am GIVING GOD PERMISSION TO DO THIS. Go for it! I'll no doubt let you know if "He" does.
So now I'm wondering if, legally, you can give consent to Someone you don't believe in.
  #52  
Old 05-05-2019, 05:34 PM
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How?...

Provide me with sufficient evidence.
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  #53  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:12 PM
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So much for free will.
This has always struck me as odd. Did Adam and Eve have free will? They certainly were in touch with God. What about Moses and his people? He was doing miracles left and right for them -- were all those Israelites robbed of their free will? Same for the Egyptians -- I imagine they woke up to the existence of God when all their first borns were killed, including their cattle. Plus all the plagues.

Moving onto the New Testament, Jesus's disciples saw him perform all kinds of miracles, plus the people who he performed them on. Robbed of free will? All the consumers of loaves and fishes? The wine drinkers? Even after all that, Thomas continued to doubt that Jesus came back from the dead, but then Jesus showed him the holes -- did He rob Thomas of his free will?

It's a trade I would gladly take -- if God exists and happens to be the Christian one, I'd happily lose my free will for the chance of an eternity in heaven. After he reconfigured my brain to be a believer, I'd accept him as my savior and be a shoo-in. Who wouldn't make that trade? An eternity in heaven vs. eternal torture?

Anyway, to the OP, I think that's really the only way to convince me -- reconfigure my brain to be a believer. That still wouldn't prove it's God, but it would "prove" to me that He exists, since I can't just stop believing (just like I can't just start believing now). Anything else could just be a very advanced intelligence, but not the alpha and omega, uncaused cause, or whatever those things are.

Q in Star Trek, for example, could certainly do some amazing parlor tricks but he wasn't God, you know?

ETA: On review, I know you, running coach wasn't making the argument I argued against, but I've seen that as an argument against God showing himself -- only through faith, etc., and robbing of free will if we see evidence. Sorry for imputing that on you.

Last edited by RitterSport; 05-05-2019 at 06:14 PM.
  #54  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:17 PM
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The traditional Christian God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent. So I throw the ball to him and ask him to figure out what evidence would irrefutably convince me he is God and then provide that evidence to me.
Definitely. God would know what it would take...or she/he/it just isn't the God a lot of people make her/him/it out to be.
  #55  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:18 PM
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I'm actually a really gullible person. It wouldn't take that much for someone to convince me they were a supernatural deity. A parlor trick probably wouldn't be enough, but an instant deposit of millions of dollars into my bank account would.
I work closely with God. I just checked and he's willing to send you $5 million dollars to
prove that he's real. But since God doesn't usually handle money personally, in order to release the funds I will need you to send me a $2,500 administration fee to cover the bank charges.
  #56  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:19 PM
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So now I'm wondering if, legally, you can give consent to Someone you don't believe in.
IANAL. However, I am sincere in my consent, anyway, and I'm guessing God wouldn't need to follow human laws.

Despite those dumb "Christian" movies about atheists (we're all secret believers, but we're just mad at him or something, and we'll come around the first time something remotely bad happens to us), I'm an atheist because I don't believe supernatural beings of any kind exist. I didn't choose not to believe, I just don't. There's far, far more support out there for the position that God doesn't exist than that he does: particularly that "everybody knows" their local God(s) are the true ones, and everybody else's are just myths.

But truth is important to me -- far more so than my current belief sets. If such a being did exist; I would far rather believe in it (maybe not worship-- the God described in the Bible is clearly evil--but believe in) than not. Building worldviews based on falsehoods is how we get into a lot of our human messes.

Last edited by TimeWinder; 05-05-2019 at 06:19 PM.
  #57  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:52 PM
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To me that would prove this person is God. What about you?
We're talking the Judeo-Christian God, not all those other fakes the misguided rubes have fallen for?

I'm open-minded about the existence of God(s). I don't believe, but I could be convinced, unlikely as it strikes me.

However, I'm pretty close-minded on the idea of worship and the bureaucracy around it that we call religion.
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  #58  
Old 05-05-2019, 07:03 PM
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A rational perspective is: I have no credible evidence that isn't distorted by 2000+ years of retellings and editing that any "supernatural" effects are possible. Or that any intelligent being within many light years of my position exists who isn't just another fellow human or AI written by humans.

So my "belief" is that the probability that such a being exists and is able to take actions that I can observe is very, very small. Perhaps 0.00001 of 1. This is called my "prior".

But if some dupes bread and fish, or walks on water, or makes a crippled person spontaneously regrow their spine, or resurrects the dead - each miracle I observe, or have credible, contemperous, repeated observations from others - greatly shifts my belief towards "is some sort of supernatural being, and the being has powers similar to it's claims". But no one should be 100% in any belief, "faith" is irrational...
  #59  
Old 05-05-2019, 07:41 PM
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Some magician shows up at my door, demonstrates impressive skill and claims to be the all-powerful deity,

“Hold on a sec, I'll be right back”
<short interval>
What's the vegetable knife for?
“Here, let me show you”
<I proceed to heartily stab the claimant 4 dimensionally – long, wide, deep and repeatedly>

I mean, the presumptive deity should be ok with that. Then we can engage in further discussion, in which the deity can explain why I should vote for it.

Last edited by eschereal; 05-05-2019 at 07:41 PM.
  #60  
Old 05-05-2019, 07:50 PM
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The traditional Christian God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent. So I throw the ball to him and ask him to figure out what evidence would irrefutably convince me he is God and then provide that evidence to me.
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
OK, so here's the experiment: Out of my free will, I am GIVING GOD PERMISSION TO DO THIS. Go for it! I'll no doubt let you know if "He" does.
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
IANAL. However, I am sincere in my consent, anyway, and I'm guessing God wouldn't need to follow human laws.
I approve of all of these.

In general, if someone is making a remarkable claim, it's not up to me to tell them what evidence they should provide. It's up to them to make their most persuasive case. And God only knows what that would be.

One I read about awhile back I really liked. To describe the relationship between the diameter and circumference of a circle with a diameter equal to the universe, comprised of hydrogen atoms, pi only needs to extend out to something like 32 digits.

If you're God, round pi off to 32 digits such that any future calculation of pi is a rational number.

Do that, and I'm your huckleberry.
  #61  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:04 PM
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I work closely with God. I just checked and he's willing to send you $5 million dollars to
prove that he's real. But since God doesn't usually handle money personally, in order to release the funds I will need you to send me a $2,500 administration fee to cover the bank charges.
Get thee behind me, Satan.
  #62  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:08 PM
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If you're God, round pi off to 32 digits such that any future calculation of pi is a rational number.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Pi is not a property of the physical universe. It has been mathematically proven to be irrational. What about the proof would change?

I may just be misunderstanding what you're saying, but to me "make pi rational" sounds like the same kind of thing as "make triangles have four sides."

Last edited by Thudlow Boink; 05-05-2019 at 08:09 PM.
  #63  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:21 PM
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So much for free will.
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Originally Posted by RitterSport View Post
This has always struck me as odd. Did Adam and Eve have free will? They certainly were in touch with God. What about Moses and his people? He was doing miracles left and right for them -- were all those Israelites robbed of their free will? Same for the Egyptians -- I imagine they woke up to the existence of God when all their first borns were killed, including their cattle. Plus all the plagues.
It strikes you as odd because it's a ridiculous argument.

From my two-year-old niece's vantage point, her parents can do everything. They know everything. And they do all kinds of inexplicable things that might as well be supernatural, since they defy her reasoning ability.

And yet she disobeys her parents quite frequently. Despite being damn-near magical, their powers are not enough to keep her from exercising her will.

Yes, if people were confronted with the face of God, they would cower in fear and be like sheeple. For a couple of freakin' days. Eventually the novelty would wear off, they would be desensitized to the whole experience, and they would go back to doing whatever they want to do, because why the fuck not? Just like how rebellious teenagers do what they want to do, knowing there's a good chance their parents will find out and be upset with them. Just like jackasses speed on the highway despite all the survelliance technology that exists to capture them. As long as God allows some transgression to occur without apparent repercussion, you can expect God's children to transgress. Whether they "see" God or not.
  #64  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:44 PM
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to start I am pretty much an agnostic.

Let's say someone shows up at your door and says he's God and wants to prove it.

Then he says "I can snap my fingers and any car you want will appear right here. In fact I can bring any 5 cars of any cost - Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Lambo, Ferrari , etc. , or if you prefer I will give you $1 million in cash." and then does which one you pick.

Would you think this person is God or would you think there is some kind of trick going on? To me that would prove this person is God. What about you?
No. That's the sort of cosmic trickery I DON'T expect from an actual god. This is what I'd expect from someone trying to trick me or who wants me to think they are a god. No, for an actual god to demonstrate they are a god (or some sort of very advanced being) would take more. What exactly? Not sure to be honest. But some sort of advanced technology or magic that is beyond my own ability to dream up. Perhaps a demonstration of time travel, or incredible healing or biological manipulation far beyond my own imagination. Sure, it could still be an advanced alien, but at a certainly point, what difference to me, personally. There is a level that some being of advanced and powerful technology or magic that could convince me they were a god, though not sure what the point of convincing me would be.
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  #65  
Old 05-05-2019, 08:49 PM
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While I like the idea of God knowing what it would take, I'd go with writing some message - to be defined by me - in the stars, to be confirmed by the entire population of the world and the Hubble.

Now if we lived in a simulation, this could happen also, but if God wrote or controls the simulation, that would be just as good as him being a real God.

Then we could discuss the problem of natural evil. And he could tell the fundamentalists that they are full of shit.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:12 PM
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What are 'supernatural powers' anyway? AFAICT there is no such thing as 'supernatural'. Only the natural exists but we understand very little of nature. What people mistakenly call 'supernatural' are merely natural phenomena that we can not yet understand or explain.

For example, ghosts. If ghosts exist then they are surely an unexplained natural phenomenon. What purpose does the idea of supernatural serve?
Emphasis mine. I disagree with that sentence. That was true hundreds and thousands of years ago, but increasingly, since the development of the scientific method, phenomena described as "supernatural" are actually non-existent; that is, they are beliefs without evidence, or they are delusions. There are certainly things that science cannot definitively explain, and probably always will be, or things for which there are only tentative hypotheses, but none of those things are what we typically call "supernatural".

Supernatural phenomena are things that are not only unexplained by science, but refuted by science, or at least, rendered so astronomically unlikely that they can effectively be dismissed because they are essentially extraordinary beliefs supported by exactly zero credible evidence. Things like ghosts, or the anthropomorphized gods of traditional religions both old and modern, and the magic these gods are supposed to be able to work. And those things are, in fact, non-existent. The only kind of "god" that can reasonably be hypothesized is one so abstract that it's ontologically meaningless, like saying that "god" is the wave function of the universe. One finds that when atheists like Richard Dawkins attack the idea of God, what they are really attacking is the beliefs of institutionalized religions.
  #67  
Old 05-05-2019, 09:22 PM
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I don't understand what you mean by this. Pi is not a property of the physical universe. It has been mathematically proven to be irrational. What about the proof would change?

I may just be misunderstanding what you're saying, but to me "make pi rational" sounds like the same kind of thing as "make triangles have four sides."
Not the same thing. If every process for calculating pi started returning infinite zeroes after 32 digits, and if this only happened after some entity told me they were gonna make it happen, I'm just saying, I'd be impressed.

Pi is more than a definition, and is therefore not the same thing as "every triangle has four sides." If, however, I started adding up the internal angles of triangles, and found that suddenly they equaled 100 degrees, I'd also be pretty impressed with whoever told me they were gonna do that. That just seems like it'd have more deleterious effects on the universe, though; the pi thing would be a harmless demonstration of power.

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  #68  
Old 05-05-2019, 09:36 PM
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IF there is a god then it must be omniscient and omnipotent, therefore is would already know what evidence it would take to prove it's existence
An omniscient god, moreover, would spell the possessive form of "its" correctly.
  #69  
Old 05-05-2019, 09:37 PM
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An omniscient god, moreover, would spell the possessive form of "its" correctly.
An omnipotent omnibenevolent god would rid the world of orthographic nitpickery.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:49 PM
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If the spelling's being done by an omnipotent god, my guess is that however God spells anything is going to be the way that it's spelled.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:56 PM
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An omnipotent omnibenevolent god would rid the world of orthographic nitpickery.
This of course raises the essentially subjective values-based question of what constitutes "nitpickery", and more fundamentally, the phenomenological question of what kind of world we want to live in, orthographically speaking. Some might enjoy the lawlessness of the Wild West; others might prefer a more refined experience based on the rule of law, and might even respectfully carry around their copy of Fowler's, and the linguistic commentary of William Safire, both of which they consult with biblical reverence.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:59 PM
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IF there is a god then it must be omniscient and omnipotent, therefore is would already know what evidence it would take to prove it's existence

Signed - agnostic atheist
This actually inspires a very interesting thought.

Growing up in the church, it was instilled in me that God is both all-knowing and all-powerful. It was almost seen as blasphemy to wonder if he has any limitations.

If a Christian and an agnostic met someone who claimed to be God, but her or his powers--while impressive--were clearly limited, who would be more likely to be skeptical? I'm thinking the Christian would be.

"What do you mean, you can't turn water into wine? Wouldn't a real god be able to do that?"

"No, I can't do that. But I can make the stars spell out your name in every alphabet that has ever existed. Isn't that something?"

"Call me when you can turn those stars into wine, Lucifer. Cuz that's something my Jesus can do. My Jesus can do everything."

I don't think every Christian would be like this. But a lot would be.
  #73  
Old 05-05-2019, 10:02 PM
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This of course raises the essentially subjective values-based question of what constitutes "nitpickery", and more fundamentally, the phenomenological question of what kind of world we want to live in, orthographically speaking. Some might enjoy the lawlessness of the Wild West; others might prefer a more refined experience based on the rule of law, and might even respectfully carry around their copy of Fowler's, and the linguistic commentary of William Safire, both of which they consult with biblical reverence.
A real god would smite all that shit.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:07 PM
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"What do you mean, you can't turn water into wine? Wouldn't a real god be able to do that?"
Turning water into wine would be the first and most important task I would require of any putative god, and I would judge the authenticity of his godness based on what he produced. I would expect nothing less than a first-class Premier Cru Bordeaux, the kind that even the vintage section of the wine store keeps in a locked climate-controlled cabinet and sells for well into the three figures.
  #75  
Old 05-05-2019, 10:34 PM
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Make world peace happen, bring us all joy and happiness and the richness of a meaningful life. End systemic suffering, eliminate cruelty and hatred and oppression and exploitation. Solve hunger and fix the energy crisis and show us how to leave in equilibrium with the natural world.

If you can't do that, I don't much care whether or not you can make dead people alive again or fly or walk on water or prove you can be omniscient or whatever. Those stunts might make you a good Marvel Comics character or something but they don't make you God.

Last edited by AHunter3; 05-05-2019 at 10:34 PM.
  #76  
Old 05-05-2019, 11:11 PM
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If he/she/it existed - there would already be ample proof of its existence that would stand up to scrutiny and objective reasoning/process.

Parlor tricks don't concern me - no matter the scale. Water to wine? piffle - my dad does that in his basement as a hobby.

It amazes me to this day that people accept without question a 2000 year old text as 'THE WORD OF GOD" when they would dismiss, summarily, anyone that ran around today making the same absurd claims as those written down.... "that burning bush talked to me" would be met pretty quickly with derision and a healthy dose of medications and therapy.

Last edited by simster; 05-05-2019 at 11:12 PM.
  #77  
Old 05-05-2019, 11:33 PM
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"that burning bush talked to me" would be met pretty quickly with derision and a healthy dose of medications and therapy.
If one burning bush appeared with the voice of Samuel Jackson, I would reconsider.

Samuel l Jackson as principal Firebush in The 10 Commandments: "What happened here was a miracle, and I want you to fu***** acknowledge it!"

  #78  
Old 05-06-2019, 03:52 AM
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About the only thing that would prove to me that 'god' was omniscient and omnipotent is if he bestowed ALL his powers upon me, so I can actually experience them and confirm for myself that, with all his powers, I am omniscient and omnipotent.

That said, it would be comparatively simple to prove to me that one is a god, in the sense of being a tremendously powerful being, possibly in charge of a particular aspect of reality. They'd just have to do something suitably impressive within their sphere of influence. If they're trying to prove they're, say, the God of War, then, I dunno, have World War III break out and me somehow be the hero of the war, like a video game protagonist mowing down all opposition before me. Or if they're trying to prove they're the God of the Sea, then create a massive waterspout encompassing 2/3 of the pacific ocean and yet have all sea travel through that region miraculously come through unharmed.

And all things considered, I don't really care about the details of how they achieved this power; if they have sufficient power, to me, they are effectively a god. If the physics of what they're doing and how they're doing it are so far beyond me that it wouldn't be possible to explain it to me, even if I spent the rest of my life being taught to understand, then they are definitely a god as far as I am concerned.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:28 AM
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The thing is, this whole question is something of a misdirection.

If you were to ask me: "How could God provide evidence to support his existence?" there are a million ways from writing in the sky to a fountain of youth. Heck, just showing up.

But proof is a different matter: I try to leave room for doubt about essentially everything. And if God wanted to prove he can pee over an infinite wall...yeah I don't know how he could prove infinite abilities to little old me.

Last edited by Mijin; 05-06-2019 at 04:30 AM.
  #80  
Old 05-06-2019, 05:20 AM
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A real god would smite all that shit.
Meh... smiters gonna smite.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:42 AM
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To me ,if you say the person with supernatural powers could be an alien to me that's just giving a different name for God.
Then what does "God" mean to you?

And if it doesn't inherently include things like "created the universe", "all-knowing", etc., why call it "God"? That's a term with some baggage.

It really comes down to how you define "God". What you're looking for is a set of claims. How could this god prove to me that they "created the universe"? That seems exceedingly difficult to prove. I might be charitable and assume it to be true if they demonstrated some similar miracle, but proving it seems a bit... impossible?

In reality, if someone says, "I'm god, and you should bow down to me", if they then decide to prove it by, say, writing a message in the stars that anyone can see, well, I'm probably bowing down, because whether or not they actually created the universe seems secondary - clearly they're in a position to fuck my shit up in all kinds of interesting ways, has a bit of an ego, and I'd better do whatever they want and whatever I can to get on their good side.

Given the utter paucity of evidence for any supernatural events (or indeed, any events that are hard to explain given the framework of science and purely naturalistic events), this is all purely hypothetical. In fact, it feels like kind of a waste of time to even consider. All available evidence seems to indicate that this kind of thing just doesn't happen. God doesn't heal amputees.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:20 AM
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Let's go back to basics:

Make a rock so big He Himself can't lift it.
  #83  
Old 05-06-2019, 08:31 AM
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If I were to wake up in the morning a polyglot - able to speak, read, and write all the world's languages (hell, I'll settle for the top 50) - then I would be hard-pressed to offer a non-God explanation.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:26 AM
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I'm not picky. Manifesting something out of the aether, writing something in the stars, predict the behaviour of random passerbys, grant me a superpower, stop time, create life... Any of that goes, as long as it's directed by my whims of that specific moment and performed instantly of course.



This wouldn't necessarily prove the being is "the" God, as in the YHWH of the Bible, or the Allah of the Quran, or Amaterasu etc etc ; but at least a being powerful enough for me not to try and fuck with. For a time.


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I’ve just typed a list of 20 completely random words into the notepad app on my phone. If I get a DM in the next 24 hours listing all those words I will immediately convert to the sender’s religion.
You just typed "penis" 20 times, right ?
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  #85  
Old 05-06-2019, 09:43 AM
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You just typed "penis" 20 times, right ?
Only a real god would know that he capitalized the word every time.
Which he did.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:47 AM
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My parents took me to church (Christian, Protestant, Congregationalist*.)
When I was 16 I asked my Sunday School teacher if there was any evidence for God. He replied there wasn't and that you needed faith.
I didn't have any faith and had found contradictions in studying the Bible.
So I became an atheist.

As far as proof goes, to me it's simple.
There are many different religions, usually divided into different 'factions'*.
This is what you would expect if there was no God, just people hoping there was.
Meanwhile every single person on Earth believes in gravity.

So if God exists, all he has to do is prove it every time anyone asks him to.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:53 AM
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If it was really God at my door, they would know how to convince me.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:30 AM
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You just typed "penis" 20 times, right ?
ISTR a rock band in the sixties called Random Penis. Their sound originated from delta blues.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:31 AM
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(1) Have Scarlett Johansson fall in love with me.

(2) Give me $100 billion dollars.

I wouldn’t care if somehow something else can pull that off, I’ll happily call whoever does that “God.”
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:34 AM
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Meanwhile every single person on Earth believes in gravity.
You have not been keeping up with the flat-earthers, some of whom believe that our bubble is accelerating upward, so gravity is just an illusion. So, almost every single person, but not quite.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:50 AM
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You have not been keeping up with the flat-earthers, some of whom believe that our bubble is accelerating upward, so gravity is just an illusion. So, almost every single person, but not quite.
Flat Earthers, huh!

Even they believe there is a constant force pulling them to the planet....
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:51 AM
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Which God?


My atheism is less that no universe-creating-supernatural-being exists, but that no earthly religion has anything useful to say about it if it did exist.

Some dude comes up and wants to convince me that he created the universe... so what if you did? I mean, I'll take the money and toys and shit, but if you want everyone to worship you, you have to convince them, not me. I'll even follow whatever stupid rules you have on shellfish and mixed textiles, but let's not pretend that you need me to be your prophet.
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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1. Claim you're God
2. ?????
3. Prophet!
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:23 AM
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(1) Have Scarlett Johansson fall in love with me.

(2) Give me $100 billion dollars.

I wouldn’t care if somehow something else can pull that off, I’ll happily call whoever does that “God.”

See, that's just petty and shortsighted. You completely forgot (3) Make it so that Scarlett Johansson is really into anal. Shame on you.
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:24 AM
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If it was really God at my door, they would know how to convince me.
Bring pizza (extra pepperoni) and Belgian beer ?
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:29 AM
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You have not been keeping up with the flat-earthers, some of whom believe that our bubble is accelerating upward, so gravity is just an illusion. So, almost every single person, but not quite.
Wait, that is a disk not a bubble or sphere, unless you are confusing two pseudo-sciences there.

Expanding Earth

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Expanding_Earth
Quote:
The hypothesis posits that the Earth is growing as a result of the expansion of the seafloor. According to its proponents, an "expanding Earth" model explains why the outlines of continents that were separated by continental drift do not quite match up (most people cite erosion as the major cause of this). If the Earth were, say, 20% smaller, it is claimed that South America and Africa would fit together like pieces in a jigsaw puzzle.[1].

There are several versions of the hypothesis, from one that claims that the Earth's mass has remained constant (and surface gravity has therefore decreased), to another that holds that the Earth's mass has increased (where the extra mass came from is completely unaccounted for), to yet another that holds that the gravitational constant of the Universe has changed.

Problems with the hypothesis

As mentioned above, the idea of an expanding Earth has several problems and very little evidence to back it up. For instance, in continental drift theory, we have measurements of the rate of plate movement (done by fancy satellites and lasers) that show the speed of movement. This movement, projected back, gives us the last time the continents were together. That these figures match up with geological strata and the fossil record is another big hint that we have this right.
And "good" old Flat Earth.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Flat_earth
Quote:
Flat Earth (also known as the Flat Earth myth, the Flat Earth theory flat-Earthism, less commonly platygeism, and intelligent geography for parodists of intelligent design) is the pseudoscientific belief that the earth — which the vast, vast majority of the population imagine in their heads as this big spherical thing (or oblate spheroidal thing, pedants) is actually a flat disk shape (Or, at least, cylindrical.). Believers in this almost always claim that the Earth is geocentric as well. Yes, people do believe this, although this belief usually involves some form of religious fundamentalism.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 05-06-2019 at 11:30 AM.
  #97  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:31 AM
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I'm as atheist as they come, but it would be pretty easy for a being to persuade me that they were either God, a god, or something sufficiently powerful that I wasn't interested in disputing whatever they wanted me to call them. Make me fly. Instantly transport me to a foreign country. Rearrange the stars. Cure cancer. That sorta thing.

Hell, I'll even go the magic trick route. Make whatever I ask for appear in my living room and then change it at my direction a couple of times. After the yellow 72 Cutlass pops up, changes color to blue, and then is replaced by a talking elephant, I'm a believer.

I guess I'm pretty easy. But hell, I haven't even seen a persuasive image in a burnt piece of toast!
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:38 AM
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Wait, that is a disk not a bubble or sphere, unless you are confusing two pseudo-sciences there.
The surface of the earth is a big pizza, with the Antarctic ice wall as its crust. The sky is a big dome enclosing the pizza. Somewhere beyond the foggy, unexplored boundary of the ice wall, the dome of the firmament meets the surface.

Hence, the shape is bubble-like. And this describes the entirety of the universe. There is no turtle, or stack of turtles, because “underneath” has no meaning.

It is depressing to imagine.
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:40 AM
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Where do the sauce and cheese come in? And what about the Big Pizza Cutter In the Sky?? That could be worse than the coming of the handkerchief....
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:46 AM
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Well, it would have to be something a human can't do. IMO once we're talking about aliens, the Matrix, etc., it all becomes equally ridiculous so I'd have no problem accepting that entity was essentially god.

Let's say he did everything the Lord of Light does in Game of Thrones, especially with the bringing people back from the dead stuff. I'd probably believe it.
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