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Old 05-29-2019, 10:46 PM
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This parenting style has pros & cons, but it's the most effective IMO


Being 21 years old, I came to realize that discipline comes in all different forms. However, I recently thought of the perfect way to teach your kids or teens how to act more appropriate for their age:

Let them learn through the mistakes that they make. Now, this all depends on the situation. In fact, this is something that only affects them temporarily. I'd also show them videos of public, social experiments on YouTube: JoeySalads, Coby Persin, etc. Even though some of these videos have mixed reviews, just telling them to watch out may or may not work for some children/teenagers. Going further, you can also tell them that their mistakes can negatively affect you as well.

Examples include:

- Telling them to go to bed, but not enforcing it. So, if they stay up, sleep in, and miss the bus or work, then it'll be on the both of you (especially missing school).

- Telling them to do homework or study for a test. If they refuse, then their grades will be negatively affected.

Basically: telling them to do almost anything that doesn't put them in harm's way. But, if they refuse to do so, then it'll be on the both of you.

Now, if they continue to struggle, then adjusting your discipline towards them would be an option if it starts become a bigger problem for you.

On an extra note, I'd also sit down with them & explain this form of discipline: How it negatively affects the both of you.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:51 AM
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If you are 21, you've grown up with a YouTube video for everything.
Parenting does not being at the point where kids can understand videos, it begins at the very beginning. Building good habits in elementary school is going to do a lot more than showing videos in high school.
Setting expectations, being available, and giving some freedom worked pretty well for me. Letting kids fail is fine - maybe once - but you need to distinguish that from washing your hands of the kid. Some kids may grow used to failure and not know how to get out of it even if they want to.
My credentials - two very successful kids in their 30s. Kids are different also. My older kid was sure I was pressing her to succeed, where she was really pressing herself to succeed. (I didn't press her because I knew it was unnecessary.) My second was a lot more rational about things.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:34 AM
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It depends on the kid. The lil'wrekker did more to strive than I ever would have pushed.
It wasn't necessary. If fact I had to pull her back some. She over filled her plate. Still does.
Oldest was happy-go-lucky class clown. Now I sat on him. He would have never cracked a book otherwise. Mid girl was my rebel. If I said 'in' she said 'out', she just could not cooperate. They are all 3 successful. Well, lil'wrekker is still in college, but she's a very good student. I don't think any YouTube video would be able to speak to all 3. They're so different. There is no formula to raise children. Consistency is the key.

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Old 05-30-2019, 06:55 AM
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I agree that letting the kid make mistakes, and suffer (some) of the consequences, is important — I wish my mother had let me do more of this. Not so much about not doing homework or whatever (I was a nerd), but as a way to learn practical life skills.
One realm this doesn’t work so well in is teaching how to interact with people — being social and attentive with someone you just met, etc. For that sort of thing, the penalties for failing to do it don’t happen right away — it’s too easy to just withdraw or be aloof. That needs to be actively taught and reminded about in near-real-time.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:59 AM
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Who gets to define what is "appropriate for their age"?
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:02 AM
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On occasion, each of my 3 kids, after having attained adulthood, took the opportunity to tell their mother and me how we had fucked up as parents. (Yeah - we were far from perfect - but all 3 kids graduated from college, are financially independent, and are in longterm relationships - so we COULD have done worse!)

As I told my oldest when she had her kid, "Congratulations! Now you have the opportunity to fuck your kid up however you wish!"

So if that is how the OP or anyone else wishes to raise their kid - more power to them.

One observation, tho - the kid isn't the only member of the family who has to deal with their mistakes. As a parent, you have plenty of demands on your time. In at least some instances, I would choose to insist that a kid do something one way or another, rather than having to deal down the line with expected and easily avoidable hassles related to an immature person's questionable decision-making.

In some situations, I'm not sure the lesson learned is sufficient to outweigh the consequences. One example would be bad grades which negatively impact future eligibility for placement, extracurriculars, admission... How quickly can you expect each person to learn the valuable lesson - and how significant would the negative impact be before that lesson is learned?

Also, in many situations, I think a valuable lesson to teach kids is, "Do it THIS WAY NOW, because I am the person with the authority to make the decision, and my decision is based on my having greater experience than you, and greater responsibility should anything go wrong."

Like I said, no parent is perfect, and each parent has considerable freedom to fuck up their kids however they wish. Go forth and multiply!
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:51 AM
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Let's try this...

When you become a parent, you experiment as you suggested, and when you fail, you can learn from your mistakes. You will course correct, etc. etc.

Since there is no parenting manual from the hospital, that you get when your baby is born, it is all trial and error.

Good luck!
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:25 AM
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Since there is no parenting manual from the hospital, that you get when your baby is born, it is all trial and error.
When my adult kids told me of some horrible mistake I made while raising them, I decided that so long as I was confident that whatever choice/action I decided upon was well-intended, based on my best information and my resources at the time, and was not the result of laziness, selfishness, etc, I could live with it.

Yeah, I fucked up all the time. But it wasn't for lack of effort. Sure, I coulda done better. (Ya know what? So could the kids!) But they sure coulda done worse, and they ended up all right.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:20 PM
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There is no one way to parent. Between my fiancee and I, we have 4 kids and three of them are very young.

My oldest is as sweet as can be and very smart but a relatively bad student with ADHD.

Her oldest is brilliant by any measure for a 10 year old but rude as hell - she has to be constantly corrected on her poor behavior.

My youngest is a great athlete and student but treats her friends like crap in a rotating circle. She has to be corrected in that.

Her youngest is the real challenge. He is adopted and has Special Needs. He was born drug addicted to everything and has defiant personality disorder. The local schools are debating whether to even let him into Kindergarten full time. He kicked me down backwards on a large staircase a few weeks ago and then ran a garden hose into the house and turned it on out of spite last week.

If you have a Youtube video that can neatly tell you how to handle very different needs, I am all for it. Then again, you are 21 and I have only been doing this for close to two decades so I am all ears.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sta3535 View Post
Being 21 years old, I came to realize that discipline comes in all different forms. However, I recently thought of the perfect way to teach your kids or teens how to act more appropriate for their age:
Being 21, I think you're missing an important detail: for a lot of teens and kids, "acting like an imbecile" is completely appropriate for their age.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:56 PM
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First some requisite snark: the only perfect parent is the one who has not yet had children. As soon as they are born we start to make mistakes. Fortunately most of them have enough intrinsic strengths that they come out okay despite us. As a parent most of my goal has been not to screw them up too much, not to get too much in the way of them becoming the best versions of themselves they can be. Not as easy as it sounds, but I think they've each had enough strengths that they are turning out okay.

That said there is lots to be said for letting kids learn from natural consequences and from example. We need to provide the safety rails so that those mistakes are ones that they can recover from but we do them a disservice if we protect them from failures and from learning from those failures. And for the failures that have longer term consequences, ones too delayed for them to think of as meaningful for where they are, we need to provide more immediate consequential feedback.

The op might however be interested in reading about the differences between "authoritative", "authoritarian" and "permissive" parenting styles.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:53 PM
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The op might however be interested in reading about the differences between "authoritative", "authoritarian" and "permissive" parenting styles.
I'm quite familiar with those styles since I took a psychology course in college. My mother is more of an authoritative parent, while my father is quite the opposite.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:59 PM
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One difficulty is that sometimes, it takes a while for the natural consequences to manifest. So your kid doesn't study, and as a result gets a bad grade on a test: But what if the kid doesn't care about bad grades? The consequence of that is that, years down the line, they'll have a harder time getting into college and into the job they want, but by the time that consequence has manifested, it's much harder to fix the problem. It's parents' job to steer their kids onto the right course before it becomes too late to fix. How do you do that? I dunno.
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:44 PM
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One difficulty is that sometimes, it takes a while for the natural consequences to manifest. So your kid doesn't study, and as a result gets a bad grade on a test: But what if the kid doesn't care about bad grades? The consequence of that is that, years down the line, they'll have a harder time getting into college and into the job they want, but by the time that consequence has manifested, it's much harder to fix the problem. It's parents' job to steer their kids onto the right course before it becomes too late to fix. How do you do that? I dunno.
Exactly.

My wife and I have always been very involved with our son. Many people would probably consider us to be helicopter parents (but hopefully not snowplow parents). But we managed to give him some good habits, like doing his homework immediately when he got home. He went off to college, and just graduated with a B.S. in Civil Engineering.

I have a friend who took a very different approach to parenting -- one that I jokingly call "benign neglect." His kids were never made to do their homework, or anything else. The middle son is also friends with my son, so I know him pretty well. He is a very smart kid, but was pretty aimless in school. I encouraged him to apply to the local state university, and he got in, later telling me that he probably wouldn't have applied if I hadn't encouraged him to do so. Unfortunately, he had no discipline to do his schoolwork at the university, and so he dropped out after a couple of semesters. He's now working for his father (who also never went to college, but who is very smart in a self-taught sort of way), so hopefully he can pull it together. As I told my son, though, he'll have a harder path without that degree.
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:02 PM
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. . .
Let them learn through the mistakes that they make. Now, this all depends on the situation. In fact, this is something that only affects them temporarily. I'd also show them videos of public, social experiments on YouTube: JoeySalads, Coby Persin, etc.
. . .
Didn't know who these people were so I went and had a look. You are absolutely not ready to be a parent, my friend. Just say "no." I saw nothing of value to teaching a child how to be a good person in those videos.

I will say though, that to a certain extent letting a child suffer their natural consequences is useful.
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:24 PM
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... I took a psychology course in college...

I got my degree in psychology. (And while I don't have children, I've had 35 years post-degree to see how this has worked relative to how I was brought up) What you are talking about is essentially operant conditioning.

The issue when attempting to use operant conditioning in the form you are describing, is that rewards or punishments that occur closer to the behavior are stronger than rewards that are more removed in time. The other issue is that people place different values on different rewards and punishments.

Note: I have ADHD-PI, and I've attempted to use operant conditioning on myself for years to improve habits, with mixed results.


Let's take brushing your teeth. The consequence of not brushing your teeth is cavities and bad breath.

But, no one really experiences their own bad breath. Cavities don't impact a person until you go to a dentist (getting a filling) or the tooth is so far gone that you are getting a toothache. Thus, at best, cavities will not negatively impact a person until at least a couple of months of not brushing teeth occur.

Meanwhile, brushing your teeth has immediate negative consequence - at best it's boring. Toothpaste can have an unpleasant taste and texture. It's keeping a person from doing more pleasant things like gaming or sleeping.

To establish a good tooth-brushing habit in your child, you're going to have to fix the immediate negative consequences - make sure they like the flavor of the toothpaste, or at least don't actively hate it, and engage with them while they brush their teeth, or make it a game while they are young. Tell them their post-brushing breath smells good (positive reinforcement).

Adults have a hard time responding to delayed gratification when there is available immediate gratification.

Children, for whom a couple of months is a much bigger chunk of their life in comparison to your life, are going to be abysmal at delayed gratification.

If you rely on rewards/negative consequences that only occur after extended periods of time, what you will find is that those rewards are not very effective.


The second issue - placing different values on different rewards.

When I was having problems in school, my parents took me to a place in Fort Worth that specialized in childhood problems. The therapist I saw did not diagnose me with ADHD, but instead "the worst case of passive-aggression he had ever seen" (I hope he had worse problems with his own children.)

One thing he recommended to my parents (which I don't even remember this happening) was to reward me with money when I did something right.

Didn't work. Money didn't mean anything to me.

What did work was a couple of years later my parents decided to let us choose places to eat when we did well on our report cards. Best grades I got for my entire school career was the year they did that. What they were rewarding us with was control - which was probably the thing that, as the youngest, I had the least of otherwise.

Another big possible reward that a lot of parents don't realize is the reward of attention. Take a kid that is always acting up, and there's a good possibility that they need attention, and that is the only way they will get it, or possibly the only way they know how to get it.
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:27 PM
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Who gets to define what is "appropriate for their age"?
The parents and the child. It isn't necessary for the parents to make this decision in a vacuum, as they can rely on the advice and experience of others.

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First some requisite snark: the only perfect parent is the one who has not yet had children.
I believe the original quote is from a Prussian general, and is frequently paraphrased as, "No plan survives contact with the enemy."
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Basically: telling them to do almost anything that doesn't put them in harm's way. But, if they refuse to do so, then it'll be on the both of you.
Allowing kids to learn from their mistakes is a central tenant of books such as Parenting with Love & Logic. The idea is to let kids experience the natural consequence of their decisions. One of the ideas is that it is important that the kid figure out the consequence on their own---explaining the consequence is counterproductive. Letting the child know that the parent is disappointed, sad, angry, inconvenienced, etc. as one of the consequences is perfectly rational.

My main problem with this, and perhaps it is just my lack of understanding of the method, is that it can fall apart when the kids just don't care about the consequences. They may understand them perfectly well, but just don't care.

Also, consequences are not punishments. Punishment: if you pull the cat's tail, I'll take away your tablet. Consequence: if you don't plug in your tablet, it's battery will die and you can't watch it.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:02 PM
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Chronos made a good point about the long lag between action and consequence.

A lot of kids are able to skate by on the bare minimum. Maybe they have a golden halo because they are smart. Or maybe they have one because they fit the profile of a smart kid. So they goof off in class and the teacher cuts them a break because "aw, he's just bored". Or they get away with petty crimes because ,"oh, he didn't mean no harm."

But then that kid stops being a kid and he's out in the real world. And suddenly all the slack that he was given as a kid is gone. No one cares that he comes from a good family and he's got a charming smile. No one cares that he has an IQ score in the 95th percentile. All they care about is performance. By the time he figures out that he needs up to up his game, doors to certain opportunities have closed up and it's gonna be real hard for him to re-open them.

So a parent who doesn't want to financially support a 30-something adult has a vested interest in making sure their kids get pushed and prodded a little. I think the art of good parenting is knowing when to back off and when to push and prod. Not just going with the extremes. The extremes are actually easier than finding the happy medium.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:55 PM
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I'm quite familiar with those styles since I took a psychology course in college. My mother is more of an authoritative parent, while my father is quite the opposite.
Which is quite the opposite of authoritative? Permissive or authoritarian? Or just neglectful? Seriously I can't figure that out. In any case having parents on very different parenting philosophy pages is almost always going to be a problem, and not just for the child.

Mind you parents are often on different paragraphs ...

And since you have taken that psychology class in college, where in that spectrum of parenting approaches would you place just letting them learn through the mistakes that they make, and showing some YouTube clips?

I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is in the permissive or the neglectful camps. Pretty sure though it is one of those. It seems to be a reaction against authoritarian parenting more than anything else.

Yes, our kids often do best when they experience meaningful (to them at that age) and fairly immediate natural consequences for their decisions, decisions they "own", and have the chance to learn from their mistakes, safely. The tricky part is implementing that in consistent and developmentally appropriate ways. Often very tricky.

FWIW I was raised more by benign neglect just because a the youngest of five they had pretty much given up by me. Given the option of that or authoritarian I'd choose benign neglect. They are not the only two choices though.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:56 PM
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Didn't know who these people were so I went and had a look. You are absolutely not ready to be a parent, my friend. Just say "no." I saw nothing of value to teaching a child how to be a good person in those videos.

I will say though, that to a certain extent letting a child suffer their natural consequences is useful.
Some of their social experiments are useful for all ages:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ial+experiment

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ial+experiment
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:55 PM
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When my adult kids told me of some horrible mistake I made while raising them, I decided that so long as I was confident that whatever choice/action I decided upon was well-intended, based on my best information and my resources at the time, and was not the result of laziness, selfishness, etc, I could live with it.

Yeah, I fucked up all the time. But it wasn't for lack of effort. Sure, I coulda done better. (Ya know what? So could the kids!) But they sure coulda done worse, and they ended up all right.
Have your kids had kids yet? When they do, their respect for your parenting skills will increase exponentially (and I do know what that term really needs.)
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:58 PM
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I'm quite familiar with those styles since I took a psychology course in college. My mother is more of an authoritative parent, while my father is quite the opposite.
My daughter not only has taken a psychology course in college, she had a PhD in psychology. If you think this helps in parenting, you are extremely naive - which is your right at your age.
Every kid is different, and the kids we have are also different. You may hear people who are parents laughing at you. It is for a good reason.
You'll get a lot smarter when you have a kid, I promise you.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:09 AM
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Have your kids had kids yet? When they do, their respect for your parenting skills will increase exponentially (and I do know what that term really needs.)
One grandkid - nearly 4.

Was funny when she was first born, and my kid would tell us things like, "Parenting has changed so much since you were parents." Yeah - right!

When the grandkid was young, my kid said she didn't want to ever tell her kid, "No." And she and her husband would give the kid endless choices about all manner of little things - like which sink she wanted to wash her hands in. Causing all manner of complications, rather than just picking her up, taking her to the nearest sink, and washing her hands. Sure, it is important to teach the kid agency and how to choose, but some things also just need to get done...

So much that they did seemed to involve an incredible amount of effort and equipment. They were strictly constrained by nap schedules and the kid's preferences. Of course, they only have 1 kid, and my clearest memories are from when I had 3, and efficiency was more imperative.

Now, I sense that , "No" and "Because I said so" have become tools in their parenting toolbox. As a general rule, as my adult kids progress in their jobs, relationships, and see what is going on with their friends and those friends' families, I sense that they are elevating their opinions of the effort and intentions my wife and I expended.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:22 AM
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I'm always surprised at how well behaved the hypothetical children of non-parents are.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:35 AM
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So a parent who doesn't want to financially support a 30-something adult has a vested interest in making sure their kids get pushed and prodded a little. I think the art of good parenting is knowing when to back off and when to push and prod. Not just going with the extremes. The extremes are actually easier than finding the happy medium.
So true!
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:38 AM
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I'm always surprised at how well behaved the hypothetical children of non-parents are.
And how rational. If we'd tried the "Stay up as late as you want" with my son, he'd have loved it. Stay up, watch videos, instant gratification. Sleep in, also good. Miss bus to school, YAY, skipping school! Get bad grades, who cares?

We all make the mistake of thinking kids will be tiny versions of ourselves. In the case of the OP, maybe even tiny versions of his adult self. Dennis Leary says it's like trying a raise a tribe of drunken monkeys.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:08 AM
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OP, more on this delayed gratification. You went to college and are 21. When did you have time to earn the money to pay for it? Or did you earn a full ride? Otherwise you grabbed instant gratification by influencing your parents to pay for it or borrowed against future earnings.
As parents, wife and I allowed children to make inconsequential decisions. Blue top with pink shorts to play in the yard? go for it. Play hide 'n seek in a department store? not a snowballs chance.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:42 AM
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Like it or not, Parents are THE role models for their kids. Emphasis on ďmodelĒ. You want good behaviors instilled in your kids? Then you have to DO them yourselves, not just preach them.
You can tell your kid not to swear but if you talk like a drunken sailor around the house youíre probably going to end up in a school office explaining why your kid called a teacher a dumb bitch.
You donít want your kid smoking and binge drinking every weekend? Then you probably shouldnít do it yourself.
Are you a loud person that talks over others to be heard? Donít be surprised when they tell you Suzy canít seem to keep quiet during class.
Raise your voice or get physical to settle arguments between you and your spouse? Thatís how Timmy is going to deal with his classmates.
I can see so many behaviors in myself, good and bad, that are direct reflections of how my parents behaved their whole lives. And I can see my and my wifeís behaviors reflected in our 13 year-old. Good and bad. I can preach till Iím blue in the face to try to change his bad behaviors (short temper, procrastination, too quiet) but until I can model those behaviors for him, he wonít pick up on it.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:52 AM
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Have your kids had kids yet? When they do, their respect for your parenting skills will increase exponentially (and I do know what that term really needs.)
For Middlebro that happened as soon as the Eldest Nephew was known to be on the way (we didn't even know that it would be a Nephew); it's amazing how much impending fatherhood focuses the mind. Somehow Littlebro has always had a very clear concept of "taking care of little kids is a lot of work", which went hand in hand with "I'm very glad that as one of the youngest cousins I never had to do that" (his own kid will be in first grade next year).
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:54 PM
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Have your kids had kids yet? When they do, their respect for your parenting skills will increase exponentially (and I do know what that term really needs.)
I dunno. My wife and I stayed committed to not making the same mistakes our parents did. We were going to make our OWN mistakes dangdabbit!

Honestly I think we parents overestimate our importance. Within fairly broad ranges they are going to turn out the same more or less in any case. Lots is just wired in and lots is more the impacts of peers than us. If they know they are loved thatís the bulk of our impact right there. IMHO.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:57 PM
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Like it or not, Parents are THE role models for their kids. Emphasis on ďmodelĒ. You want good behaviors instilled in your kids? Then you have to DO them yourselves, not just preach them.
You can tell your kid not to swear but if you talk like a drunken sailor around the house youíre probably going to end up in a school office explaining why your kid called a teacher a dumb bitch.
You donít want your kid smoking and binge drinking every weekend? Then you probably shouldnít do it yourself.
Are you a loud person that talks over others to be heard? Donít be surprised when they tell you Suzy canít seem to keep quiet during class.
Raise your voice or get physical to settle arguments between you and your spouse? Thatís how Timmy is going to deal with his classmates.
I can see so many behaviors in myself, good and bad, that are direct reflections of how my parents behaved their whole lives. And I can see my and my wifeís behaviors reflected in our 13 year-old. Good and bad. I can preach till Iím blue in the face to try to change his bad behaviors (short temper, procrastination, too quiet) but until I can model those behaviors for him, he wonít pick up on it.
This x 1000!
  #32  
Old 05-31-2019, 05:51 PM
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My daughter not only has taken a psychology course in college, she had a PhD in psychology. If you think this helps in parenting, you are extremely naive - which is your right at your age.
Every kid is different, and the kids we have are also different. You may hear people who are parents laughing at you. It is for a good reason.
You'll get a lot smarter when you have a kid, I promise you.
So this. Until you've had kids of your own you don't know Jack about parenting. Once you have kids you might know a bit about your kids, but you still know Jack about other people's.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:20 PM
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I dunno. My wife and I stayed committed to not making the same mistakes our parents did. We were going to make our OWN mistakes dangdabbit!

Honestly I think we parents overestimate our importance. Within fairly broad ranges they are going to turn out the same more or less in any case. Lots is just wired in and lots is more the impacts of peers than us. If they know they are loved thatís the bulk of our impact right there. IMHO.
Oh sure, but that's not my point. When your kids make their own mistakes, which they will, they will discover that parenting isn't as easy as they thought it was, and that you did a better job than they thought you did.
Same goes for friends without kids, who think they are experts.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:22 PM
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:

When the grandkid was young, my kid said she didn't want to ever tell her kid, "No." And she and her husband would give the kid endless choices about all manner of little things - like which sink she wanted to wash her hands in. Causing all manner of complications, rather than just picking her up, taking her to the nearest sink, and washing her hands. Sure, it is important to teach the kid agency and how to choose, but some things also just need to get done...
On the other hand, my daughter read that you were supposed to give your kid two and only two choices, which would force him to pick one.
"So, you want to do A or B?"
"No." (or "C"). So you can't win, either way. But we parents know that, don't we?
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:54 PM
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Same goes for friends without kids, who think they are experts.
As are in-laws (or so I've heard).
  #36  
Old 06-01-2019, 01:41 AM
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As are in-laws (or so I've heard).
But at least they have experience. My in-laws were fine, actually.
  #37  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:46 AM
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When my adult kids told me of some horrible mistake I made while raising them, I decided that so long as I was confident that whatever choice/action I decided upon was well-intended, based on my best information and my resources at the time, and was not the result of laziness, selfishness, etc, I could live with it.



Yeah, I fucked up all the time. But it wasn't for lack of effort. Sure, I coulda done better. (Ya know what? So could the kids!) But they sure coulda done worse, and they ended up all right.
Im glad you have a healthy attitude about it.

There is a theory in child development called the “good enough parents.” As long as the parents are proving the basics of security and love and trying, the parents are doing good enough. The kids will be resilient and can learn on their own. (I suppose there are other issues which complicate this but it’s the basic idea.)

I grew up in an extremely abusive family; a couple of siblings could never recover from it. I’ve struggled with anxiety and depression as well.

My therapist always talks about the differences between what “normal” parents do and what abusive or neglectful parents do, and how that impacts the development of the child.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:49 PM
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When my adult kids told me of some horrible mistake I made while raising them, I decided that so long as I was confident that whatever choice/action I decided upon was well-intended, based on my best information and my resources at the time, and was not the result of laziness, selfishness, etc, I could live with it.
That reminds me: Did you ever find out who was braiding the blanket fringe?
  #39  
Old 06-02-2019, 02:34 AM
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I'm a bit confused about what you are advocating here. I just watched the video where he persuades kids to come with him by showing them a puppy, or candy. In spite of the repeated warnings they have heard from their parents, the kids seem to happily go off with him. I guess that's on them? Assuming they survive their first abduction, they'll know better next time, I'm sure.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:14 AM
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In sensing a trend here. You want absolute rules on every human relation. If I say this tho a woman at a bar, this will be the result. If I tell a child this particular thing, t they will turn out this way.

In child rearing and everything else, there are no guarantees. None. You roll the dice and you takes your chances.
  #41  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:21 AM
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It depends on the kid. The lil'wrekker did more to strive than I ever would have pushed.
It wasn't necessary. If fact I had to pull her back some. She over filled her plate. Still does.
Oldest was happy-go-lucky class clown. Now I sat on him. He would have never cracked a book otherwise. Mid girl was my rebel. If I said 'in' she said 'out', she just could not cooperate. They are all 3 successful. Well, lil'wrekker is still in college, but she's a very good student. I don't think any YouTube video would be able to speak to all 3. They're so different. There is no formula to raise children. Consistency is the key.
Yep. My biggest regret in parenting is trying to be consistent in discipline across two children. They were (and are) very different people, I should have had very different approaches.
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:56 AM
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I'm a bit confused about what you are advocating here. I just watched the video where he persuades kids to come with him by showing them a puppy, or candy. In spite of the repeated warnings they have heard from their parents, the kids seem to happily go off with him. I guess that's on them? Assuming they survive their first abduction, they'll know better next time, I'm sure.
Yeah, this approach seems silly, no disrespect to the OP. Kids simply do not understand or see direct consequences of their actions. They want to eat pizza and chocolate for dinner every night? Boy, that'll show them when they die of a heart attack at age 47!

I agree with other posters that every child is different. I have a daughter who I couldn't be prouder of. She seems to have a very level head on her shoulder, makes good grades, engages in sports and other extra curriculars. I'm always there to discuss bigger issues like sex, booze, and drugs and we talk a little about it, but she seems to have open dialogue with her mother about that stuff.

I guess I'm the authoritative type of parent. When I give a directive, I expect it to be followed without argument or discussion. But, especially as she gets older and even before, I try not to make many such directives. Having that power in your back pocket, IMHO, though, is crucial.

As monstro said above, sometimes you need to push, sometimes you need to give way, and it is a delicate balancing act to know when sometimes, and you will make mistakes. I think I've done pretty good so far.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:36 AM
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On an extra note, I'd also sit down with them & explain this form of discipline: How it negatively affects the both of you.
Children are narcissistic by nature, but fortunately simply having a chat about it instantly changes their behavior.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

(Gets back up on my chair.)

Well, yes. One explains this many, many times. The difficult part is getting them to absorb the lesson. Some will, some won’t.
  #44  
Old 06-03-2019, 02:51 AM
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Yeah, some people are still peeing on fences that say "electrified" after having been shocked multiple times...
  #45  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:23 AM
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This method of parenting through YouTube strikes me about as well thought out as training receptionists by having them listen to Jerky Boys tapes.
  #46  
Old 06-03-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Hampshire View Post
Like it or not, Parents are THE role models for their kids. Emphasis on ďmodelĒ. You want good behaviors instilled in your kids? Then you have to DO them yourselves, not just preach them.
You can tell your kid not to swear but if you talk like a drunken sailor around the house youíre probably going to end up in a school office explaining why your kid called a teacher a dumb bitch.
You donít want your kid smoking and binge drinking every weekend? Then you probably shouldnít do it yourself.
Are you a loud person that talks over others to be heard? Donít be surprised when they tell you Suzy canít seem to keep quiet during class.
Raise your voice or get physical to settle arguments between you and your spouse? Thatís how Timmy is going to deal with his classmates.
I can see so many behaviors in myself, good and bad, that are direct reflections of how my parents behaved their whole lives. And I can see my and my wifeís behaviors reflected in our 13 year-old. Good and bad. I can preach till Iím blue in the face to try to change his bad behaviors (short temper, procrastination, too quiet) but until I can model those behaviors for him, he wonít pick up on it.
It is hard to know how much of the resemblance of parents to kids is being a role model and how much is genetic. My guess is that there is some interplay but you are right that the best way to raise a good kid is to be a good person.

From what I can tell a part from extremes, parenting has little to no long term effect. Because of that the rules should be set to make everyone in the house happy while remembering that childhood does not prepare you for life, childhood is life.
  #47  
Old 06-03-2019, 01:40 PM
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Kids are who they are going to be shortly after they are born, I think. By the time the kid is about 3 years old the parents, if they are observant and not prone to denial, will figure out who their kid is. THAT'S when parenting becomes a challenge. Because you have to look at the path you think the kid will go down and do your best to prepare them for it, possibly never having gone down it yourself. I think only an exceptionally good or bad parent can have a significant impact on the child's basic character.

We wanted to make people who were decent to others, and who were independent & in control of their own lives. To get there, there was a lot of, "You ought not do that..." followed by damage control. Seems to have worked.
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Y'all are just too damned serious. Lighten up.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 06-03-2019 at 01:41 PM.
  #48  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:59 AM
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If a teenager sleeps late and missies their schoolbus the right solution is to check what is their wake up cycle and adjust the schooling to that. That's the only way to get them get better schooling. A tired teenager cannot learn and gets frustrated and then the parents get frustrated and a vicious circle has started. Try to avoid that.

There have been good results in UK to recognize that not all teenagers are morning persons and adjust school hours to those who aren't. Try to get your local school do to that if you have late sleeping teenager.

Topi
  #49  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:49 AM
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Being 21 years old, I came to realize that discipline comes in all different forms. However, I recently thought of the perfect way to teach your kids or teens how to act more appropriate for their age:

Let them learn through the mistakes that they make. Now, this all depends on the situation. In fact, this is something that only affects them temporarily. I'd also show them videos of public, social experiments on YouTube: JoeySalads, Coby Persin, etc. Even though some of these videos have mixed reviews, just telling them to watch out may or may not work for some children/teenagers. Going further, you can also tell them that their mistakes can negatively affect you as well.

Examples include:

- Telling them to go to bed, but not enforcing it. So, if they stay up, sleep in, and miss the bus or work, then it'll be on the both of you (especially missing school).

- Telling them to do homework or study for a test. If they refuse, then their grades will be negatively affected.

Basically: telling them to do almost anything that doesn't put them in harm's way. But, if they refuse to do so, then it'll be on the both of you.

Now, if they continue to struggle, then adjusting your discipline towards them would be an option if it starts become a bigger problem for you.

On an extra note, I'd also sit down with them & explain this form of discipline: How it negatively affects the both of you.
Do you plan to homeschool your children? Because permissive parenting, or in your case parenting by YouTube, could easily cause children to have poor social skills. Children with poor social skills are often at the center of much difficulty at school, not only by themselves, but pulling classmates and adults into the situation.

When a kid does poorly at school, the kid is not the only person to suffer the consequences. The kid's teacher will have to explain what he or she should have done to bring the child's grade up. What resources were used? What should have been done? No administrator or government will accept "I did what I could, but the kid is a screw-up whose parents don't value our educational system."
A kid who hasn't been taught how to behave will often get into conflicts with other students or adults, and natural consequences (for example, a well-deserved slap) will cause trouble for the deliverer while rarely communicating the true message (stop being a jerk) to the recipient.
  #50  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:43 AM
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When a kid does poorly at school, the kid is not the only person to suffer the consequences. The kid's teacher will have to explain what he or she should have done to bring the child's grade up. What resources were used? What should have been done? No administrator or government will accept "I did what I could, but the kid is a screw-up whose parents don't value our educational system."
Incorporating YouTube videos constitutes "parenting by YouTube" and leads to unsocialized kids? Huh. I thought sta3535 was just talking about using real life consequences, sometimes a video to serve as a surrogate to reality in some situations, to reinforce empowering the kid to think through decisions.

And it's ok for a kid to use physical violence to resolve a conflict when there is a doting school administration stuffed with procedures and childhood development professionals at his disposal? Really?
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