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Old 09-06-2019, 12:07 PM
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Sexuality is False


http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435

The link is saying that sexual desire is false and an illusion of sorts because it's based on the false construct of a "self".
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435

The link is saying that sexual desire is false and an illusion of sorts because it's based on the false construct of a "self".
I don't see where you're getting that from.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:14 PM
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http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435

The link is saying that sexual desire is false and an illusion of sorts because it's based on the false construct of a "self".
Didn't we already do this? That's the website that starts out sounding like you can eradicate both your desires for sex and SLEEP by sheer force of will, but as you read it you realize that they're just talking about staying awake and on task while meditating.


In any case, if they actually are arguing that their philosophy shows that there's no such thing as sexual desire, I have a Modus tollens argument on hand and I'm not afraid to use it.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:19 PM
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If one earnestly takes up the hwadu in this way when the sexual desire arises, the sexual desire disappears without a trace.
And why the Hell would I want that to happen?
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:34 PM
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I prefer Multiple choice.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:44 PM
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Maybe you should forget all this bullshit, and start working on your career.
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435

The link is saying that sexual desire is false and an illusion of sorts because it's based on the false construct of a "self".
What are you trying to accomplish? Does this idea meet your goals? Why did you share this?
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:02 PM
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Careers are false and an illusion of sorts because they are based on the false construct of a "self".
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:02 PM
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Maybe you should forget all this bullshit, and start working on your career.
Those dirty bowls won't wash themselves.
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2019, 02:06 PM
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Those dirty bowls won't wash themselves.
The desire for fries is an illusion.
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:11 PM
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No, Telemark: Frei Will does exist.

Last edited by JohnT; 09-06-2019 at 02:12 PM.
  #12  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:01 PM
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Dear Machinaforce:

Here is a link where someone says that everything stated at a link is false.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:03 PM
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What's next - "hunger for food and thirst for water are illusions?"
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:46 PM
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Jeez, dude. Go get a stack of comic books and just read for fun. This 'study' you're doing is a very, very deep rabbit hole. Down at the bottom is rabbit shit. No fun in that.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:25 PM
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Jeez, dude. Go get a stack of comic books and just read for fun. This 'study' you're doing is a very, very deep rabbit hole. Down at the bottom is rabbit shit. No fun in that.
Seconded.

Seriously, bro. Your study of Buddhism through the lens of the internet is, and Imma type this slowly for ya...not doing you any good. Maybe it's not the right fit for you, and something else is. Maybe it's all b.s. Maybe it's something that takes years of study in the Tibetan Mountains to understand. Maybe it's a lot of things. But I'll tell you what it definitely is: not working for you, no matter how hard you try.

I respect your search for answers, I really do. But as the wise man Meatloaf once said, "There ain't no Coupe de Ville hidin' at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box." That's not a koan. That just says that if you can't find what you're looking for somewhere, look somewhere else.

Peace
  #16  
Old 09-06-2019, 06:44 PM
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Am I the only person who sees a blank screen where the OP should be? Eerie man. It's like, it's like, oh man, it's like the OP *doesn't exist*! 😮😮
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:29 PM
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Didn't we already do this? That's the website that starts out sounding like you can eradicate both your desires for sex and SLEEP by sheer force of will
Getting married and having two kids did all that for me.
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:19 PM
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I was gonna say you really need a girlfriend, but apparently, you don't.
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:25 PM
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I was gonna say you really need a girlfriend, but apparently, you don't.
Boyfriend. He's falsely gay. (And he truly hates it.)
  #20  
Old 09-07-2019, 12:40 AM
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So, what is the sound of one hand fapping?
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:53 AM
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Itís true from a certain perspective and context, but that perspective and context has its own issues to consider, and itís very easy to misinterpret the meaning.

I think you might be making the mistake of striving towards your idea of what some of these concepts mean despite being resistant to your own misinterpretations rather than simply getting in touch with your true nature with the help of exercises and a supportive community.

Whatís your real goal here? Buddhism is at least partly about non attachment and state of mind. Youíre not going to understand it through obsessing thinking and research. Thatís like killing for harmony.

Itís not really about conquering desire in the prohibitive way a lay person thinks of. Itís more like, achieving a integrated state of mind in which desire and non desire are in a super, undifferentiated state. Think of it like an element at the temperature and pressure of its triple point, at which it is liquid, solid, and gas simultaneously.
  #22  
Old 09-07-2019, 08:06 AM
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a very, very deep rabbit hole. Down at the bottom is rabbit shit. No fun in that.
Now this is wisdom. I'm so stealing it!
  #23  
Old 09-07-2019, 08:06 AM
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Actually, the self is the only reality.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:56 AM
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Actually, the self is the only reality.
Given that reality, "Go fuck yourself", takes on a fresh new meaning.
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:27 PM
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That's been my attitude toward reality for a long time now.
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:01 PM
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It's like, it's like, oh man, it's like the OP *doesn't exist*!
The OP does exist.

It's just that the OP is false.
  #27  
Old 09-07-2019, 01:08 PM
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But is he just a collection of our memories of him or is he "real"?
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:11 PM
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But is he just a collection of our memories of him or is he "real"?
Will we miss him when he's gone?
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:16 PM
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Existentially, I'd say 'No'.

(Or Yes)

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  #30  
Old 09-07-2019, 03:18 PM
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Itís true from a certain perspective and context, but that perspective and context has its own issues to consider, and itís very easy to misinterpret the meaning.

I think you might be making the mistake of striving towards your idea of what some of these concepts mean despite being resistant to your own misinterpretations rather than simply getting in touch with your true nature with the help of exercises and a supportive community.

Whatís your real goal here? Buddhism is at least partly about non attachment and state of mind. Youíre not going to understand it through obsessing thinking and research. Thatís like killing for harmony.

Itís not really about conquering desire in the prohibitive way a lay person thinks of. Itís more like, achieving a integrated state of mind in which desire and non desire are in a super, undifferentiated state. Think of it like an element at the temperature and pressure of its triple point, at which it is liquid, solid, and gas simultaneously.


Except that's not what this is, it's not about integration but obliteration which in this case means that what you think to be real is not. In this case it's that sexuality is based on the attraction to a false creation of our minds that doesn't exist "out there". There is no integration it's elimination through revealing what never was.
  #31  
Old 09-07-2019, 03:26 PM
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Seconded.

Seriously, bro. Your study of Buddhism through the lens of the internet is, and Imma type this slowly for ya...not doing you any good. Maybe it's not the right fit for you, and something else is. Maybe it's all b.s. Maybe it's something that takes years of study in the Tibetan Mountains to understand. Maybe it's a lot of things. But I'll tell you what it definitely is: not working for you, no matter how hard you try.

I respect your search for answers, I really do. But as the wise man Meatloaf once said, "There ain't no Coupe de Ville hidin' at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box." That's not a koan. That just says that if you can't find what you're looking for somewhere, look somewhere else.

Peace
It's not about what's the right fit but what is true, and in this sense I can't really argue with what they say because on some level I know it to be true even though I don't like it or want it to be. Comics don't work because I can see right through them, not much does really because it's based on an illusion or rooted in a lie. Buddhism in a sense ruined a lot of things for me and I can't see them the same again.
  #32  
Old 09-07-2019, 03:27 PM
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Philosophy is inherently subjective. Any one philosophy is a way to look at the world. It's like a game theory strategy "tit-for-tat" versus "optimistic" versus X, some work better for more people in more situations but other strategies will continue to thrive in other spaces and will generally survive and propagate through from generation to generation. There isn't a one true answer.

So putting the philosophy aside, it is demonstrably true that some people have figured out how to do things like consciously control the speed of their heart or raise their body temperature to resist cold. It is probably true that there is some person in the world who could successfully develop his mind to be able to resist sleep for an insane amount of time and resist sexual desires forever. Given that the cases I know of, of people achieving impressive feats of self-control, did practice meditation I would say that it's probably the right path to take if that's where you want to get.

But, it should be clearly pointed out that nearly all people fail to accomplish tasks like controlling their body temperature and heart rate. It is likely that the ones who succeed are bringing something to the table genetically or otherwise that allows them to succeed while everyone else fails. That could be something as simple as innate supreme patience or that the instinctual part of their brain is less easily triggered to take over operations from the front part of the brain due to a sightly different brain structure. I could not say.

Ultimately, we know that a whole lot of people who have sought to maintain chastity failed and that it drove a number of them into a sufficient craziness to do horrible and inexcusable things. Plausibly, that didn't happen on the Buddhist side of things in chastity land, but I would not bank on it.

If you have a concern about your sexual desires, I would suggest that there are probably better strategies for dealing with it than hoping that you'll prove to be the Win Hof of sexual appetite control.
  #33  
Old 09-07-2019, 03:38 PM
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On the topic of Buddhism itself, I would call it a philosophy of learning to tough it out and suck it up. If you can train yourself to believe that everything is illusory, then you're extra resistant to starvation and ill-abuse by the ruling classes and so on. You might make a good soldier because you can more easily be trained to accept the possibility of death, and so charge in to battle without hesitation.

Buddhism is a great philosophy for a repressive nation to popularize among the lay people.

Whether it is useful to teach yourself as a world view, outside of that context, possibly. But I would personally want to throw some anarchism and selfishness into the mix.

I think it's the Lacota who believe that the ideal way to live life is that if you can see like an Eagle then you need to learn to see like a Mole, but make sure that you don't lose your ability to also see like an Eagle. Different things are needed for different times and situations and it's having access to all of the tools and approaches that there are in the world that you get to where you want to go.

But, my strategy is to be a generalist. As with everything, that has its pros and cons.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 09-07-2019 at 03:39 PM.
  #34  
Old 09-07-2019, 03:57 PM
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Maybe you should forget all this bullshit, and start working on your career.
Or chop wood, carry water.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:07 PM
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So my attraction to a womans body is fake and made up?
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:13 PM
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So my attraction to a womans body is fake and made up?
Women are a false construct.
Men are a false construct.
Sleep and hunger are false constructs.
Reality is a false construct.
Self is a false construct.
Buddhism is a false construct.
It's false constructs all the way down.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 09-07-2019 at 04:15 PM.
  #37  
Old 09-07-2019, 04:15 PM
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So my attraction to a womans body is fake and made up?
There are men in the world who will say that they couldn't possibly refrain from spitting, because of the build-up of saliva in their mouth. Universally, these men are in lower-wage jobs. It's unlikely that mass saliva production would somehow lead a person to be unable to find a higher paying job. More likely, it's simply a cultural thing.

Similarly, we see in history people saying that it would be impossible for their soldiers to not rape the women of the locations they conquer; it's an innate aspect of manhood that cannot be turned off. Modern soldiers, somehow, do refrain from raping women. The people in history were, objectively, wrong.

There is a lot to be said for culture and self-control.

There are almost certainly limits. But if you start drooling and humping the table when a woman with big boobs walks by and the other men don't, that's probably a problem with you and your view of the world, it's not something completely uncontrollable.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 09-07-2019 at 04:16 PM.
  #38  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:32 PM
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Comics don't work because I can see right through them, not much does really because it's based on an illusion or rooted in a lie.
I'm wondering--do you have a sense of humor? This is a serious question, and not meant as an insult--there are people, especially ones "on the spectrum" who honestly do not get jokes. I ask because I have noticed multiple times in your threads where someone has made a jokey statment and you answer it very seriously, as if you didn't even notice that it was supposed to be humorous.
It would explain a lot about your attitude about life, the universe, and everything. Do you derive pleasure from any form of fiction or from anything at all? Have you ever?
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:35 PM
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Women are a false construct.
Men are a false construct.
Sleep and hunger are false constructs.
Reality is a false construct.
Self is a false construct.
Buddhism is a false construct.
It's false constructs all the way down.
But cushy office jobs are real.
  #40  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:41 PM
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I remember when I was a squid.

My sexual needs were about the same.
  #41  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:51 PM
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Apes don't quote philosophy.

Yes they do, Otto; they just don't understand it.
  #42  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:44 PM
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I remember when I was a squid.

My sexual needs were about the same.
Always have to have the lights on, do ya? Well the light is a false construct as well, so HA! And once again, HA!
  #43  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:56 PM
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Machinaforce, you should tell the many millions of people who surf porn, and/or contribute vast income to the porn/sex industry, that their libido is an illusion.
  #44  
Old 09-07-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post

The link is saying that sexual desire is false and an illusion of sorts because it's based on the false construct of a "self".
Maybe this sort of outlook is useful if you're a second son living out in certain Asian countries where a good portion of the fetuses that are revealed to be female by way of sonogram are aborted in hopes for male children, and your hopes of a wife are slim to none.

But if you aren't in that situation, what's the point?
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:48 PM
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It's not about what's the right fit but what is true, and in this sense I can't really argue with what they say because on some level I know it to be true even though I don't like it or want it to be. Comics don't work because I can see right through them, not much does really because it's based on an illusion or rooted in a lie. Buddhism in a sense ruined a lot of things for me and I can't see them the same again.
I can relate to this, because I had similar experiences when I was practising meditation. But you need to think about compassion. Where does that fit in? Buddhism doesn't exist without compassion, so you need to factor that in somewhere. It's not just about the mental gymnastics. Focus on compassion (metta, loving kindness) will help you to gain a broader perspective.
  #46  
Old 09-08-2019, 12:12 AM
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I'm wondering--do you have a sense of humor? This is a serious question, and not meant as an insult--there are people, especially ones "on the spectrum" who honestly do not get jokes. I ask because I have noticed multiple times in your threads where someone has made a jokey statment and you answer it very seriously, as if you didn't even notice that it was supposed to be humorous.
It would explain a lot about your attitude about life, the universe, and everything. Do you derive pleasure from any form of fiction or from anything at all? Have you ever?
Fiction doesn't really do anything for me anymore, not since my exposure to Buddhism.
  #47  
Old 09-08-2019, 12:18 AM
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I can relate to this, because I had similar experiences when I was practising meditation. But you need to think about compassion. Where does that fit in? Buddhism doesn't exist without compassion, so you need to factor that in somewhere. It's not just about the mental gymnastics. Focus on compassion (metta, loving kindness) will help you to gain a broader perspective.
Compassion doesn't do a lick to replace everything that I lost due to Buddhism,so much so that I can honestly say I would be better off forgetting all of it.

Plus when I look at Buddhism compassion doesn't fit with the rest of the teachings, it just feels horned in there. In fact I would wager that if they didn't put that in then no one would follow it. It just doesn't fit within the whole of Buddhism. IT would explain why some say that Buddhism gets close to truth but compassion holds it back.

But this isn't about controlling sexual impulses but the idea that sexuality is false because it's rooted in the false construct of a self. I mean it hurts to think that I've been lying to myself this whole time.
  #48  
Old 09-08-2019, 12:32 AM
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IT would explain why some say that Buddhism gets close to truth but compassion holds it back.
If Buddhism lead one to truth, then China would have been an idealic, peaceful land free of crime, everyone would be living in a state of bliss, and the teachings would have spread across the planet and been taken up by everyone.

It appeals to you. That's not truth. Believing that something which appeals to you is truth is narcissism.

As said, if Buddhism were true, you would be able to see it affect the world in a positive way. To my knowledge, China was just as full of murder, rape, and tyranny as everywhere else on the planet. Your feeling on the matter be as it may, you can just look at history and it tells you that you're not correct.
  #49  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:12 AM
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Fiction doesn't really do anything for me anymore, not since my exposure to Buddhism.
Much of Buddhism is fiction.
  #50  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:20 AM
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Machinaforce, you should tell the many millions of people who surf porn, and/or contribute vast income to the porn/sex industry, that their libido is an illusion.
Maybe he can be an apostle to the incels. They might feel better if convinced that libido is an illusion.
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