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Old 08-24-2016, 11:56 AM
wristwatch wristwatch is offline
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Yes - virgins were sacrified to volcanos.

This is a short response in regard to SD's response on the subject of human sacrifices by means of an active volcano, particularly of virgins.

"My query concerns the common conception of primitive cultures sacrificing virgins by throwing them into the maw of an active volcano. Many people seem to think this actually happened, but I can’t find even one reliable report of human sacrifice this way."

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...pease-the-gods


I'm readdressing this response from SD on the grounds that they did not respond adequately. Furthermore, it seems Cecil's response is contradictory:

"As with so many popular beliefs, the answer boils down to: (1) this story is mostly Hollywood BS, but (2) not 100 percent."

followed later by,

"Virgins have been sacrificed on, if not in, volcanoes. I’ll go out on a limb and say this is 100 percent true. "

So what is it - mostly Hollywood BS, or 100% true?
Because that is a fine contradiction if I ever read one.


After looking around, it seems there is plenty of noteworthy sources that would insist young children and particularly females were sacrificed to volcanoes.

"In the days before the arrival of Columbus, the Masaya Volcano was worshiped by the local people as they viewed any activity of the volcano as signs of displeasure from their gods. They would then head up the volcano with sacrifices, which often included young maidens and small children, to try and please the gods."

http://www.nicaragua.com/museums/masaya-volcano/


Another popular example is Mummy Juanita of Mt. Ampato.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy_Juanita

Although there is nothing to indicate having been a virgin, its a well known example of a preserved female sacrifice to a volcanic site.


Honestly, this has to be the first time I was disappointed in the response from Straight Dope.

I'm also slightly embarrassed for the individual that asked this question.
Of course people have been sacrificed to volcanoes.

  #2  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:13 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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After titling your post "Yes - virgins were sacrified to volcanos., you proceed to give links that seem to indicate that it is still unknown whether your statement is true.
right back atcha.
  #3  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:26 PM
wristwatch wristwatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
After titling your post "Yes - virgins were sacrified to volcanos., you proceed to give links that seem to indicate that it is still unknown whether your statement is true.
right back atcha.

For arguments sake, lets just say all of the children found in the history of volcanic sacrifices were already de-virginized.
These ages of course range roughly anywhere from six years old and above, with an emphasis on female children.

Well, you're right! I don't have citation for conclusive proof - but then again, the worship of purity regarding ones sexuality (and lack of experience in) is a global phenomenon that has been documented in every corner of the world.

Regardless, I believe I've addressed the issue more appropriately then the original reply.

I also have yet to see a response on the contradictory statements.
  #4  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:26 PM
Velocity Velocity is online now
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As if people need more of an incentive to lose their virginity!
  #5  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:30 PM
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It should also be noted that "virgin blood" is considered sacred by many cultures.

Hell, even Bathory was bathing in it - and this was before AIDS!
  #6  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:32 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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And you expect us to simply take their word that they were virgins?
  #7  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:34 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Originally Posted by wristwatch View Post
For arguments sake, lets just say all of the children found in the history of volcanic sacrifices were already de-virginized.
For silly nitpickings sake, lets just say that when people usually refer to virgins being sacrificed they aren't talking about virgin children.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 08-24-2016 at 12:35 PM.
  #8  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
For silly nitpickings sake, lets just say that when people usually refer to virgins being sacrificed they aren't talking about virgin children.
For Czarcasms stubborn sake, lets just say that children having sex is not a restricted past time, and depending on region and timeline - yes, a child may very well be fair game to label a virgin.
Men were taking 10 year old wives not more then a few hundred years ago, and this was to ensure they were virgins.

Or, are 10 year olds not "child" enough for you?
  #9  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:38 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Originally Posted by wristwatch View Post
It should also be noted that "virgin blood" is considered sacred by many cultures.

Hell, even Bathory was bathing in it - and this was before AIDS!
The tale of Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed bathing in the blood of virgins was first told long after her death, and is pretty unreliable.
  #10  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:39 PM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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Why the OP should feel embarrassment for the original questioner is a mystery to me. It seems like a perfectly reasonable question.
  #11  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
Why the OP should feel embarrassment for the original questioner is a mystery to me. It seems like a perfectly reasonable question.
Because they asked this question in 2013, not 1985.

10 minutes of Google will provide safe sources noting volcanic sacrifices.
  #12  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:53 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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So, in other words, Cecil was completely right? Why start a thread to just repeat what he already said?

In case it's not clear, what he said was that humans were definitely sacrificed to volcano gods, but that the idea of performing the sacrifice by tossing them in was a Hollywood invention.
  #13  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:55 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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And it is still unknown as to whether their being virgins was ever a requirement.
  #14  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:00 PM
Walken After Midnight Walken After Midnight is offline
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I don't see what the contradiction is. The question was: "have any virgins anywhere ever been tossed into a live volcano to appease an irate god?".

Incan sacrificial mummies that have been found, such as the children of Llullaillaco or Plomo mummy, were not tossed into the volcano. The method of death for such sacrificial children, as part of the qhapaq hucha rite, was, according to Wikipedia, "strangulation, a blow to the head, suffocation, or being buried alive while unconscious". They were also not tossed in the volcano post mortem, since the corpses survive to this day.
  #15  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:04 PM
wristwatch wristwatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
So, in other words, Cecil was completely right? Why start a thread to just repeat what he already said?

I'm sure if you can speak English so well, you can also do a better job at reading it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
In case it's not clear, what he said was that humans were definitely sacrificed to volcano gods, but that the idea of performing the sacrifice by tossing them in was a Hollywood invention.
Actually, thats just what you picked up from your own interpretation.

There is nothing in that response to sound that he was implying just that.
Please show me what I am missing. Feel free to quote.

Last edited by wristwatch; 08-24-2016 at 01:07 PM.
  #16  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
I don't see what the contradiction is. The question was: "have any virgins anywhere ever been tossed into a live volcano to appease an irate god?".

Incan sacrificial mummies that have been found, such as the children of Llullaillaco or Plomo mummy, were not tossed into the volcano. The method of death for such sacrificial children, as part of the qhapaq hucha rite, was, according to Wikipedia, "strangulation, a blow to the head, suffocation, or being buried alive while unconscious". They were also not tossed in the volcano post mortem, since the corpses survive to this day.

The contradiction was not regarding the question at hand - please read my first post again.

You're citing irrelevant cases that do not pertain to volcanic sacrifices.

Last edited by wristwatch; 08-24-2016 at 01:07 PM.
  #17  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:10 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wristwatch View Post
The contradiction was not regarding the question at hand - please read my first post again.

You're citing irrelevant cases that does not pertain to volcanic sacrifices.
You cited a tall tale about Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed, and something vague about virgin blood being sacred in "many cultures", and neither of those have anything to do with virgin sacrifices to volcanoes.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 08-24-2016 at 01:11 PM.
  #18  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:17 PM
Walken After Midnight Walken After Midnight is offline
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Originally Posted by wristwatch View Post
You're citing irrelevant cases that do not pertain to volcanic sacrifices.
Llullaillaco is a potentially active stratovolcano, with reports of eruptions in 1854, 1868, and 1877, although it's true that qhapaq hucha sacrifices were also made at religiously significant high-elevation locations that were non-volcanic.
  #19  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:19 PM
wristwatch wristwatch is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
You cited a tall tale about Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed, and something vague about virgin blood being sacred in "many cultures", and neither of those have anything to do with virgin sacrifices to volcanoes.
Virginity is considered sacred by many groups from all over Earth.
If I spent an hour or two I could compile a fine list of its documentation from all over, but really - I do not want to do that.

Bathory was a tongue-in-cheek defense, if you could not tell.
However, on a serious note, why would, of all things, virgins blood.. become the root of that tale, rather then just regular blood?

Because, whether it is true or not - many outdated cultures placed great sacred meaning to virginity, as it remains an undeniable form of purity/being untouched.
  #20  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:23 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Originally Posted by wristwatch View Post
Virginity is considered sacred by many groups from all over Earth.
If I spent an hour or two I could compile a fine list of its documentation from all over, but really - I do not want to do that.

Bathory was a tongue-in-cheek defense, if you could not tell.
However, on a serious note, why would, of all things, virgins blood.. become the root of that tale, rather then just regular blood?

Because, whether it is true or not - many outdated cultures placed great sacred meaning to virginity, as it remains an undeniable form of purity/being untouched.
That's nice. Now can you provide any cites that back up the statement of fact you made at the beginning of this thread...something more than "Well, women and children were sacrificed, and there's a good chance some of them were virgins, right?"
  #21  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:26 PM
Skammer Skammer is online now
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There's a difference between being sacrificed to a volcano, and being sacrificed into a volcano. Sure, people (especially possibly-virgin women and children) were sacrificed to volcanoes. However, the practice of tossing a virgin into the bubbling lava pit of an active volcano is a Hollywood invention.
  #22  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:37 PM
wristwatch wristwatch is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
That's nice. Now can you provide any cites that back up the statement of fact you made at the beginning of this thread...something more than "Well, women and children were sacrificed, and there's a good chance some of them were virgins, right?"

You're clearly debasing my argument by lazily (and quite shittily) rewording my opening statement.


As I stated above - you're right! I cannot find a source were science has done tests on the weathered ancient vaginas of poorly sacrificed remains, nor have I found a source that cites only virgins were targeted.

There are other fair implications that factor in, and you're spitefully ignoring that.

What we can prove:

Women were the main choice of sacrifice.

Tribal/aboriginal cultures tend to place a higher importance on virginity in contrast to more progressive nations, historically speaking.

Tribal cultures wished to appease their gods with the most pure forms of sacrifice, which is why children were second after women.
  #23  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:43 PM
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That's not the only possible reason to pick children. They could be picked because it was easier for society to absorb the loss for instance. In other cultures sacrificing a child would be considered a low value sacrifice. Children were a dime a dozen, whereas sacrificing a trained adult warrior showed real commitment.
  #24  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:46 PM
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That's not the only possible reason to pick children. They could be picked because it was easier for society to absorb the loss for instance. In other cultures sacrificing a child would be considered a low value sacrifice. Children were a dime a dozen, whereas sacrificing a trained adult warrior showed real commitment.
I agree, thats certainly possible.

It would make additional sense if they were able to justify it further by acknowledging that child for its purity and innocence - a greater sacrifice to the gods, with less problems on the workload or long-term relations.
  #25  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:20 PM
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I agree, thats certainly possible.

It would make additional sense if they were able to justify it further by acknowledging that child for its purity and innocence - a greater sacrifice to the gods, with less problems on the workload or long-term relations.
Do you have any evidence that these specific cultures valued purity and innocence other than vague cultural comparisons and circular reasoning?
  #26  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:41 PM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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On a side note, the philosopher Empedocles threw himself into Mount Etna so people would believe his body had vanished and he'd become one of the immortal gods. The volcano however threw back one of his bronze sandals and the deceit was revealed. (Info from Wikipedia).

You don't mess with the volcano god!
  #27  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
On a side note, the philosopher Empedocles threw himself into Mount Etna so people would believe his body had vanished and he'd become one of the immortal gods. The volcano however threw back one of his bronze sandals and the deceit was revealed. (Info from Wikipedia).
I feel like bronze sandals are rather uncomfortable for day-to-day wear. And one would definitely want to choose something else on a day when you're doing a lot of mountain climbing.
  #28  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:55 PM
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I think the OP misread the article. To the question of being tossed into the maw of an active volcano, The Master says this is mostly Hollywood BS, say 99.999%. So it's not exactly 100%. It's a hedge and a fair one, if just one virgin was tossed into an active volcano in the past 2.5 million years, then the trop would not be 100% Hollywood BS. Unity of probability works like that.

The OP then confuses a second question, were any virgins sacrificed on a volcano, but not tossed in. Of course the answer is 100% yes, we have the dead bodies to prove it.

Although please continue, I'm completely shocked that Czarcasm should be acting so sarcastically ... shocked I say ...
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