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  #1  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:40 PM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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Is it fair to dislike someone for holding conservative/questionable views

So there was this musician I used to admire. However, on social media, I noticed they tend to favour questionable tweets criticizing feminism and labelling criticism of Trumps travel ban as 'Political correctness. They also follow something known as conservative canucks, which has islamophobic underlines by criticizing Canada's anti islamophobia law and slogan' freedom to offend' and millenial republicans, which is a trump supporting post that has uses MAGA and wrongfully criticize Black Lives Matter. Due to this, I can't help but foster a dislike for this person. At the same time, I have not personally met this person, who people claim is friendly in real life, but I cannot overlook their views. So I ask, is it fair to dislike someone for holding views like this?
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:43 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Do you admire him for his music, or for his political views?
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:51 PM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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I have relatives with political views I find appalling and who believe things that are blatantly false, but otherwise I like quite a lot. The answer is to avoid discussing politics as much as possible. It doesn't have to be all or nothing as long as the other person is also willing to avoid controversial topics. If they're determined to argue, however, you have to decide where your line of tolerance lies.

And for artists, it's certainly possible to like and enjoy their work and completely disagree with their other views. Again, it's entirely up to you to what extent you feel that consuming or purchasing their work constitutes an endorsement of their wider worldview. I mean, I like Carmina Burana despite Orff's dalliance with the Nazis.

And I have no objective metric for "fair" beyond you applying the same level of tolerance to everyone.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:58 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Like Gyrate said "fair" is rather subjective. I certainly wouldn't call it a good thing, but I'm also certain that I dislike some people for their political views too, and I think it's quite common. In one hand, it's getting quite insane, to where people feel like going to a concert or movie or eating a chicken sandwich or making a cup of coffee is a political statement and they must boycott those who disagree with them.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:59 PM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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Honestly, I don't think I could ever be ok with being friendly or tolerating someone who holds views that are detrimental to the rights of others.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:00 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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I think the only fair thing to judge other people on is actions, as opposed to beliefs. Speaking (or typing) can be an action, so that can be fair to judge someone on, IMO, but not just believing something different.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:18 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is online now
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I know it is considered bad taste to let someone's political views change your view of them.

But at root, a lot of the conservative views are based on the idea that conservatives deserve rights that people who do not look or act like them do not deserve. The belief that native born christian hetero white men deserve rights that shouldn't be offered to people who fall outside of that description.

Imagine if the rest of society treated the base of the GOP the way they try to treat other people (both in the present and the past).

Took away their right to own guns
Had the police brutally suppress and watch them (which wouldn't even be unfounded, white men, especially conservative white men, are among the biggest source of terrorism, lone shootings and pro-fascist political views)
Took away their right to vote (either via massive suppression or laws designed to make it hard for them to vote).
Screamed endlessly when they engaged in peaceful protest
Tried to shut down their media outlets
Every time one of them committed a crime, the entire media latched onto it to talk about how dangerous and criminal conservatives in general are.

Or imagine a muslim refusing to bake a cake for a christian couple.
Or imagine women wanting to take away a man's right to buy condoms.
Or imagine gays trying to take away straight people's right to marry.
Or imagine an atheist saying christians shouldn't be allowed to be president

I know its not polite, but it is hard to look at people who think this way and think they are decent people. America isn't 'theirs' and never was.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 01-17-2018 at 01:18 PM.
  #8  
Old 01-17-2018, 01:18 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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There are very few artists that I can say that I like personally. After all, most of the artists whose work I consume, I've never met, or at most a brief handshake after a concert or something. I don't know them well enough to be able to like them personally.

I can, however, judge their art. If you like this musician's music, then why not continue to like their music?
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:30 PM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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Wesley, you hit it spot on.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:43 PM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
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What should you judge people on, if not how they treat (or want to treat, or advocate treating) you and your friends? If someone doesn't think my friends are deserving of basic human rights and respect, then why should I think well of them? They clearly don't think well of me or my friends, even if they observe some token forms of politeness while wanting to hurt them. The idea that you can just call bad behavior 'political' and then no one is allowed to criticize you for it is bizarre.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:47 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Sure, it's fair. But you have to be even-handed. That means you need to start buying Backstreet Boys records based on Lance Bass' long term advocacy for liberal causes.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:54 PM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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If an artist I like starts blathering on about hating people and pushing injurious positions, then sure, I'm not going to like him anymore. But I've never tossed anyone's CD or deleted it from my iTunes for that. Hell, I think Morrissey is a raving jackass, but I'm not deleting my The Smiths tunes because of it. I don't think I'd go out and buy any of his new music to support him, though.

My issues with people I know in real life become one of respect and trolling. I'm pretty clear that I'm a liberal. If you have to keep spouting your trollish opinions and hatemongering in my presence, for a while I'm just going to call you out on it when you do, but ultimately I will decide that since you clearly don't respect me and keep spouting crap you know is insulting to me, then bye bye!
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:56 PM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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Not liking people who have different political opinions then you makes you a bad person. It makes you intolerant and arrogant. The intolerance is obvious and it is arrogant to believe that your own political beliefs are so obviously right that only a bad person could disagree with them. For mainstream views it is so hard to know what the correct answer is. Given that most political opinions are based on very little actual evidence disliking someone for having different opinions than you is just another form of prejudice toward the outgroup. It is just like racism except toward a different group.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:59 PM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Not liking people who have different political opinions then you makes you a bad person. It makes you intolerant and arrogant. The intolerance is obvious and it is arrogant to believe that your own political beliefs are so obviously right that only a bad person could disagree with them. For mainstream views it is so hard to know what the correct answer is. Given that most political opinions are based on very little actual evidence disliking someone for having different opinions than you is just another form of prejudice toward the outgroup. It is just like racism except toward a different group.
Oh stop it.

Being a Nazi is a different political opinion. It is also one that condones genocide and mass murder. Not liking Nazis doesn't make me a bad person.
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Last edited by Chimera; 01-17-2018 at 02:03 PM.
  #15  
Old 01-17-2018, 02:20 PM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Like Gyrate said "fair" is rather subjective. I certainly wouldn't call it a good thing, but I'm also certain that I dislike some people for their political views too, and I think it's quite common. In one hand, it's getting quite insane, to where people feel like going to a concert or movie or eating a chicken sandwich or making a cup of coffee is a political statement and they must boycott those who disagree with them.
I have no problem boycotting companies who support causes I disagree with to a significant degree. As I said, you have to decide the extent to which you feel your patronage constitutes endorsement. I just don't demand other people also boycott the same companies just because I am - there's taking a stand and then there's being smug about it.

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Oh stop it.

Being a Nazi is a different political opinion. It is also one that condones genocide and mass murder. Not liking Nazis doesn't make me a bad person.
Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:38 PM
asahi asahi is offline
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I think Wesley's post pretty much nailed it.

It also seems like the nature of conservatism has changed these days, and I blame much of that on mainstream right wing media. I grew up in red state country and around conservatives. I might be polishing the past a bit, but it seems to me that while I occasionally felt that some conservatives had views I didn't care for, I seem to remember a time when conservatives would at least try to be well-behaved in public forums. Going back to the rise of AM talk radio in the 1990s, it just seems like conservatism has gone from having a little edge to just being outright prickish. Particularly after 9/11, the right wing tried to monopolize patriotism, and it seems to have gone downhill from there.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:50 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
I have no problem boycotting companies who support causes I disagree with to a significant degree. As I said, you have to decide the extent to which you feel your patronage constitutes endorsement. I just don't demand other people also boycott the same companies just because I am - there's taking a stand and then there's being smug about it. ...
Sounds like a reasonable position to me.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:51 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is online now
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Originally Posted by BloodStalk View Post
Honestly, I don't think I could ever be ok with being friendly or tolerating someone who holds views that are detrimental to the rights of others.
If you can't imagine ever doing otherwise, why ask whether we, or anyone else, think it's fair?
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:32 PM
wonky wonky is offline
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A person's politics reflect their ethics. What better point of judgment is there than a person's ethics?
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:35 PM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
I know it is considered bad taste to let someone's political views change your view of them.

But at root, a lot of the conservative views are based on the idea that conservatives deserve rights that people who do not look or act like them do not deserve. The belief that native born christian hetero white men deserve rights that shouldn't be offered to people who fall outside of that description.

Imagine if the rest of society treated the base of the GOP the way they try to treat other people (both in the present and the past).

Took away their right to own guns
Had the police brutally suppress and watch them (which wouldn't even be unfounded, white men, especially conservative white men, are among the biggest source of terrorism, lone shootings and pro-fascist political views)
Took away their right to vote (either via massive suppression or laws designed to make it hard for them to vote).
Screamed endlessly when they engaged in peaceful protest
Tried to shut down their media outlets
Every time one of them committed a crime, the entire media latched onto it to talk about how dangerous and criminal conservatives in general are.

Or imagine a muslim refusing to bake a cake for a christian couple.
Or imagine women wanting to take away a man's right to buy condoms.
Or imagine gays trying to take away straight people's right to marry.
Or imagine an atheist saying christians shouldn't be allowed to be president

I know its not polite, but it is hard to look at people who think this way and think they are decent people. America isn't 'theirs' and never was.
We don't have to imagine that world because we already live in that world.

Took away their right to own guns - NY Governor "Confiscation could be an option"
Had the police brutally suppress and watch them (which wouldn't even be unfounded, white men, especially conservative white men, are among the biggest source of terrorism, lone shootings and pro-fascist political views) - The IRS targeted conservative groups. 10,000 people have signed a petition to designate the NRA as a terrorist group.
Took away their right to vote (either via massive suppression or laws designed to make it hard for them to vote). United States vs Brown. Democrat found guilty of voter suppression.
Screamed endlessly when they engaged in peaceful protest - A parade in Portland had to be cancelled because of threats to attack the Republicans who were marching.
Tried to shut down their media outlets -Top Obama white house staffer on Fox News - We are going to treat them like the opposition. Democrats had to cancel a debate on Fox News after a petition on MoveOn.org urged them to boycott it.
Every time one of them committed a crime, the entire media latched onto it to talk about how dangerous and criminal conservatives in general are. Clinton blamed Oklahoma city bombing on Rush Limbaugh, The NY Times and Newsweek tried to blame the Gabby Giffords shooting on Sarah Palin.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:36 PM
drad dog drad dog is online now
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2018, 03:37 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Not liking people who have different political opinions then you makes you a bad person. It makes you intolerant and arrogant. The intolerance is obvious and it is arrogant to believe that your own political beliefs are so obviously right that only a bad person could disagree with them. For mainstream views it is so hard to know what the correct answer is. Given that most political opinions are based on very little actual evidence disliking someone for having different opinions than you is just another form of prejudice toward the outgroup. It is just like racism except toward a different group.
Seriously?

If you support ISIS, I don't like you. Does that make me a bad person?

Believing, supporting, espousing, and acting on shitty beliefs makes you a shitty person. Everyone has shitty beliefs to one extent or another. I can overlook a couple dozen minor shitty beliefs and actions, but the more shittiness you accumulate the less I like you. At a certain point you become someone I can't hang out with. Political beliefs aren't some walled garden where nothing matters, it's all just a debating society where we shake hands afterwards and go have a beer together.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:43 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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I see there as three situations here:

1) Can you decide that a person sucks because of their political opinions? Of course you can! You have to judge people on something. And their political opinions speak to their moral character, or lack thereof.

2) Can you decide that a sucky person still makes great art? Of course you can! And of course they can! There's nothing about being a scumbag that doesn't mean you can't have skills in other places, Trump notwithstanding. Objectively good art is objectively good art, and that remains true even if its creator is a pedophile.

3) Can you decide to avoid the good art made by a sucky person to avoid supporting, paying, or helping that sucky person? Of course you can! And should, if it makes you feel better. A person should always try to avoid feeling guilty about things, and if buying hamburgers from homophobes or voting for pussy grabbers makes you uncomfortable, then you should definitely boycott them. The best way to live without regrets is to avoid doing something you'll regret.

But don't go around boasting about your boycotts unless you know you're talking to an echo chamber. Nobody likes a braggart unless they can brag along too.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:43 PM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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A person's politics reflect their ethics. What better point of judgment is there than a person's ethics?
Because most politics is about the means to an end and not about the end. Everybody wants a good economy, conservatives think it can be achieved via low taxes and liberals by high taxes. Everybody wants better schools, conservatives think it can be achieved via competition, liberals by more money. This is the same for almost every issue.
Politicians are always trying to demonize their opponents. If you reduce your political opponents to bad people who want bad things then voters never question their own side or hold politicians accountable. It is the responsibility of everyone to be a citizen and not a mark.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:46 PM
D_Odds D_Odds is offline
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I don't know what is meant by "fair", but I've no qualms about writing off people, including artists I've enjoyed, if and when I find out their views. I'm not talking just "conservative" or "liberal". It has to be the off-the-deep-end type. In the past, it would be the Limbaugh/Drudge quoting fanatics, now it's Breitbart et al. And I'm equally willing to dislike those on the far left (I'm fairly centrist) - I just don't know of equivalent media outlets (I'm sure they exist, they just don't permeate media and conversation to the same extent). As for artists, I don't go searching for their views, but if and when I find out they are what I consider odious, they are as good as dead to me. I probably won't go through and throw stuff out, but their work won't find its way onto any of my playlists/watchlists/other.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:47 PM
wonky wonky is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Because most politics is about the means to an end and not about the end. Everybody wants a good economy, conservatives think it can be achieved via low taxes and liberals by high taxes. Everybody wants better schools, conservatives think it can be achieved via competition, liberals by more money. This is the same for almost every issue.
I disagree. Politics is about how we understand the world. It isn't about goals; it's about philosophy.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:47 PM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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Seriously?

If you support ISIS, I don't like you. Does that make me a bad person?

Believing, supporting, espousing, and acting on shitty beliefs makes you a shitty person. Everyone has shitty beliefs to one extent or another. I can overlook a couple dozen minor shitty beliefs and actions, but the more shittiness you accumulate the less I like you. At a certain point you become someone I can't hang out with. Political beliefs aren't some walled garden where nothing matters, it's all just a debating society where we shake hands afterwards and go have a beer together.
It is a caricature of the world to believe that everyone who believes differently than you is either ISIS, a Nazi, or a Communist. It is an excuse not to think.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:51 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Because most politics is about the means to an end and not about the end. Everybody wants a good economy, conservatives think it can be achieved via low taxes and liberals by high taxes. Everybody wants better schools, conservatives think it can be achieved via competition, liberals by more money. This is the same for almost every issue.
Politicians are always trying to demonize their opponents. If you reduce your political opponents to bad people who want bad things then voters never question their own side or hold politicians accountable. It is the responsibility of everyone to be a citizen and not a mark.
The means matter. It's one thing to merely want low taxes or "competition". It's another to want to deny aid to the poor or to expel, enslave, or murder black/gay/Mexican/Swedish people. There are objectively reprehensible opinions and it is absolutely appropriate to judge people for having them.

I don't like demonization, but I also don't like whitewashing. If someone's a Nazi then they're human garbage who desperately need major changes to their beliefs before being tolerated by decent people. Simple fact.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:51 PM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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It is a caricature of the world to believe that everyone who believes differently than you is either ISIS, a Nazi, or a Communist. It is an excuse not to think.
...says the person whose representation of what "liberals" want is a caricature of reality.
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Last edited by Gyrate; 01-17-2018 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Too snarky.
  #30  
Old 01-17-2018, 03:53 PM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
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It's not just politics.

For example, you might like films by Woody Allen but consider him to a be personally a sicko. Or look at Lewis Carrol and enjoy his "Alice in wonderland" books but despise him for being a pedophile.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:54 PM
wonky wonky is offline
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The means matter.
Indeed. Means always matter. Ends also matter. Determining what means and what ends we support is the very foundation of ethics.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:11 PM
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asahi:

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Particularly after 9/11, the right wing tried to monopolize patriotism,
It started at least as early as Vietnam, actually. You might include the whole Cold War, but (IMHO) until Vietnam, the left was mostly on-board with opposing the spread of communism and those who opposed military action on that matter were fringe, and after that point, it seemed that the pacifists became the face of the mainstream left.
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2018, 04:12 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
It is a caricature of the world to believe that everyone who believes differently than you is either ISIS, a Nazi, or a Communist. It is an excuse not to think.
And it's a caricature of me that I think everyone who believes differently than me is an CommuNazIslamist.

I'm saying that your political beliefs aren't morally neutral opinions, like whether to paint the living room blue or taupe. Your political beliefs have real world consequences, and the shittier your political beliefs are, the shittier you are. We all agree that full-on Communists, Nazis, Klansmen, and Jihadis are bad people, yes? Full on Nazism is bad. Lukewarm Nazism isn't as bad as full on Nazism, but it's still bad. Klansmen are bad, everyday racism isn't as bad as the Klan, but it's still bad. You don't get a pass just because you're not as horrible as Joseph Stalin.

There's no dividing line where you're an OK person I can have a beer with on one side, and a monster on the other. Instead your shittier and shittier beliefs and actions make you a shittier and shittier person. And it's perfectly possible for people to be decent in one sphere and shitty in another sphere. I know people I would literally trust with my life, but I would never lend them $50 or ask them to pick me up at the airport.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:19 PM
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Conservatives believe and support some extremely harmful and evil policies, it is perfectly reasonable to dislike them for no other reason than that.
  #35  
Old 01-17-2018, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BloodStalk View Post
Is it fair to dislike someone for holding conservative/questionable views

So there was this musician I used to admire. However, on social media, I noticed they tend to favour questionable tweets.....
(post shortened)

Why would you like someone when you had absolutely no idea who, or what, they were?

You liked someone's music, or maybe they look pretty to you, or you envy their lifestyle. That seems like a rather shallow reason for liking someone in the first place. just sayin'

When you actually get to know them, you no longer like them. It's not a big deal. Neither of your lives have changed (hopefully), and now you're free to "like" someone else that you know absolutely nothing about. Life goes on.

OTOH, someday, you may find yourself in a situation where you need the help of strangers/others. Tornado, car wreck, mudslide, hurricane, stuck in an elevator, violently attacked by a mugger, etc.. Will you tell them to stop helping you if you don't approve of their lifestyle, or MAGA hat, or Christmas greeting, or "Hillary for Prison" button? Or will you let them save you, and then hate them later when you no longer need them?

Haters gotta hate. Life goes on. Some people can work with others. Some can't. The sun will still rise tomorrow.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:34 PM
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If an artist's views so trouble you that they effectively break the fourth wall, prevent suspended disbelief, or keep you from enjoying their music, "fairness" is not an issue. No amount of telling yourself you "should" be able to do so is going to change that.
  #37  
Old 01-17-2018, 04:38 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
It is a caricature of the world to believe that everyone who believes differently than you is either ISIS, a Nazi, or a Communist. It is an excuse not to think.
No, it's more, "we've established what you are, now we're just dickering over the price."

We agree that, at the extreme, it's not just reasonable but necessary to reject someone due to their politics. Therefore, the claim that "[n]ot liking people who have different political opinions then you makes you a bad person" is false.

The question now is, how far does that necessity or reasonableness extend in from the extremes to where political parties and movements are in America right now?
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:39 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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OTOH, someday, you may find yourself in a situation where you need the help of strangers/others. Tornado, car wreck, mudslide, hurricane, stuck in an elevator, violently attacked by a mugger, etc.. Will you tell them to stop helping you if you don't approve of their lifestyle, or MAGA hat, or Christmas greeting, or "Hillary for Prison" button? Or will you let them save you, and then hate them later when you no longer need them?
Depends. Do I have to shoot a black person to secure their help?
  #39  
Old 01-17-2018, 04:43 PM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
Depends. Do I have to shoot a black person to secure their help?
He should be asking the same question about disapproving of gay people's lifestyles, or blank people, or hispanics, instead of just right wing stuff.
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:22 PM
Fretful Porpentine Fretful Porpentine is offline
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I don't think there's anything wrong with disliking anyone for any reason, or no reason. Liking or disliking someone is pretty much involuntary, anyway. It would be unfair to ACT on that dislike in a way that hurts the person, but I'm not sure it's even possible to do that with a celebrity you've never met. In this case, the worst you can do to them is not buy their music any more, but they're not entitled to have you buy their music, and presumably, they've also made a conscious choice to share their political views, in full knowledge that this might cause some of their fans to dislike them.
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  #41  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:29 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Not liking people who have different political opinions then you makes you a bad person. It makes you intolerant and arrogant.
Do you like bad people? Do you like intolerant, arrogant people?
  #42  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:37 PM
Martini Enfield Martini Enfield is offline
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
My issues with people I know in real life become one of respect and trolling. I'm pretty clear that I'm a liberal. If you have to keep spouting your trollish opinions and hatemongering in my presence, for a while I'm just going to call you out on it when you do, but ultimately I will decide that since you clearly don't respect me and keep spouting crap you know is insulting to me, then bye bye!
Serious question: Do you extend this same courtesy to them by not "spouting crap you know is insulting to them" (ie, not carrying on about 'liberal' stuff) in their presence?
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  #43  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:41 PM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
Serious question: Do you extend this same courtesy to them by not "spouting crap you know is insulting to them" (ie, not carrying on about 'liberal' stuff) in their presence?
Absolutely.

The simple fact is that I'm neither a troll nor an angry person who blathers on angrily about political matters in front of my friends, co-workers or random people. I find it absolutely astonishing that people find it entertaining to be jackasses to the people around them.
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  #44  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:47 PM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is online now
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
Being a Nazi is a different political opinion. It is also one that condones genocide and mass murder. Not liking Nazis doesn't make me a bad person.
No, it doesn't, but I hope you have a better reason than just "It's a different political opinion."

It's not fair to dislike someone for holding different views from yours just because they're different. You need a better reason than that.
  #45  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:49 PM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
No, it doesn't, but I hope you have a better reason than just "It's a different political opinion."

It's not fair to dislike someone for holding different views from yours just because they're different. You need a better reason than that.
Why are you asking me this? Did I give you the impression that I dislike people merely for holding different political opinions?
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  #46  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:57 PM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is online now
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
Why are you asking me this? Did I give you the impression that I dislike people merely for holding different political opinions?
I wasn't specifically addressing you. I was replying to something you said to kick off my general response to the OP's question.
  #47  
Old 01-17-2018, 06:11 PM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
I wasn't specifically addressing you. I was replying to something you said to kick off my general response to the OP's question.
Ah, then you should be more clear about that, since you quoted me and then appeared to address it to me.

I recommend "You (generic you)" or "I hope people have a better reason than..."
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  #48  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:08 PM
Weedy Weedy is offline
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I think for a lot of people (but definitely not everyone) there is a disconnect between their political views, or what they think they believe, and how they behave. This often shows up in a negative way, as in hypocrisy but I think you can also sometimes have people who are good, kind people in their daily lives but have politically reprehensible views. They don't really see the connection between their political views and people's everyday lives. You can write them off for their stupidity or arrogance if you like, but for me that is writing off too many people, and ignoring a lot of good.
  #49  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:33 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
No, it doesn't, but I hope you have a better reason than just "It's a different political opinion."

It's not fair to dislike someone for holding different views from yours just because they're different. You need a better reason than that.
Yes, of course. I don't dislike people who hold different political views than I do, unless those views are horrible. If you're a Klansman or a Nazi or a Communist I don't dislike you just because I'm not a Klansman, I dislike you because the Klan murders people.

I'm not a monarchist. I think monarchy is a outdated anachronism for play-acting silly people. But I don't dislike monarchists just because they're different from me. I'd only dislike you for being a monarchist if you advocated for absolute monarchy, with the absolute monarch as the defender of "traditional values". If you think America needs a King so he can imprison the homosexuals and atheists, then guess what, we can't hang out together.

Advocating for dictatorship is a political stance that puts you firmly in the "you're an asshole" camp. If that makes me an asshole in your view, well, there you go.
  #50  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:55 PM
Hari Seldon Hari Seldon is offline
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Case in point. Charles Dutoit was a great conductor who built orchestra here in Montreal. Now he is accused of sexual impropriety towards some of the female musicians. But it goes beyond that. He was a horrible tyrant over all the musicians and quit quite suddenly when they revolted en masse. The CBC now plays his recordings, but credits it to the orchestra, leaving his name off entirely. I think this is taking PC too far, but that's only my opinion.

I once witnessed Pete Seeger go along with black antisemitism. Do I think less of Seeger for that? Yes, of course. Do I stop listening to his music? Of course not.

One of the problems with this discussion is that "conservative" has changed meaning. Once upon a time, conservatives had certain views, but we agreed on the facts of the matter and we could have a useful discussion. Now they have their own "facts" and discussion is useless.
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