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  #1  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:04 AM
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
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All NYTimes letters to editor today (01-18-2018) from pro-Trumpers

You know how whenever someone asks Trump supporters here to come forward with a clear, articulate, straightforward statement of why they support him, no one ever does? Well today, at the invitation of the NYTimes, ALL the letters to the editor are clear, articulate, straightforward statements of why the writers support Donald Trump. Definitely worth reading. There are 15, unless I counted wrong.

This is the paper's preamble:
Quote:
The Times editorial board has been sharply critical of the Trump presidency, on grounds of policy and personal conduct. Not all readers have been persuaded. In the spirit of open debate, and in hopes of helping readers who agree with us better understand the views of those who donít, we wanted to let Mr. Trumpís supporters make their best case for him as the first year of his presidency approaches its close. Tomorrow weíll present some letters from readers who voted for Mr. Trump but are now disillusioned, and from those reacting to todayís letters and our decision to provide Trump voters this platform.
All the letters are signed with the person's full name and city. Obviously, I can't quote all of them, but here is the first one, and it is representative:
Quote:
To the Editor:

Donald Trump has succeeded where Barack Obama failed. The economy is up, foreign tyrants are afraid, ISIS has lost most of its territory, our embassy will be moved to Jerusalem and tax reform is accomplished. More than that, Mr. Trump is learning, adapting and getting savvier every day. Entitlement reform is next! Lastly, the entrenched interests in Washington, which have done nothing but glad-hand one another, and both political parties are angry and afraid.

Who knew that all it would take to make progress was vision, chutzpah and some testosterone?

[The author's name and city are here, but I'm going to leave them out}
Generally people are bothered by Trump's crudeness, but many like his bullying stance toward the rest of the world. They give him credit for the tax cut (do they know it's going to expire in a few years?), for defeating ISIS, for low unemployment and the booming stock market. I'm surprised they don't give him credit for gravity. They would like to see a path for the Dreamers to citizenship, but the kids shouldn't delude themselves that they deserve it.

Speaking of delusions, I see a lot of that in these letters.

If the page is paywalled, you can register and read X articles per month for free. If you're afraid of junk mail from the paper (I never get any, and I've subscribed for years), use a hotmail or yahoo address.
  #2  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:28 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Well, it is kind of hard to argue with "I think Trump is doing a great job because the DJIA just hit 26,000 for the first time ever"
  #3  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:38 AM
running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Well, it is kind of hard to argue with "I think Trump is doing a great job because the DJIA just hit 26,000 for the first time ever"
Actually it's easy to argue with it. Trump inherited an economy that was headed in that direction under the "business-hostile" Obama administration. His promises to fatten corporate wallets only accelerated the rate.
His jobs creation totals are behind Obama's totals from last year and unemployment has only dropped from 4.9 to 4.1% during his first year.
(Unemployment statement using typical Trump logic)
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:38 AM
up_the_junction up_the_junction is offline
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I don't get any sense of how the DC political class is handling 'drain the swamp' - it's clearly a strong sentiment among the electorate but you never see any comments.

Is everyone in Washington kind of hoping it goes away so they get back to good ole bribery and corruption?
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:40 AM
beagledave beagledave is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Well, it is kind of hard to argue with "I think Trump is doing a great job because the DJIA just hit 26,000 for the first time ever"

I can argue with the suggestion that Trump is responsible for the DJIA 26,000

1) Correlation is not the same thing as causation

2) http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-...-last-10-years

If we're playing this game, Obama was responsible for the post 2008 recovery bounce., Trump is riding his coat tails.
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:50 AM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Well, it is kind of hard to argue with "I think Trump is doing a great job because the DJIA just hit 26,000 for the first time ever"
The US stock market underperformed the Eurozone with Trump as president while it typically outperformed the same under Obama. Getting worse relative to the global economy. Sad.
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:54 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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Are we comparing Presidents based on their first year in office vs. previous Presidents' first year in office, previous Presidents' last year in office, or something else? And what are Presidents responsible for, specifically?

Regards,
Shodan
  #8  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:02 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Actually it's easy to argue with it. Trump inherited an economy that was headed in that direction under the "business-hostile" Obama administration. His promises to fatten corporate wallets only accelerated the rate.
His jobs creation totals are behind Obama's totals from last year and unemployment has only dropped from 4.9 to 4.1% during his first year.
(Unemployment statement using typical Trump logic)
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Originally Posted by beagledave View Post
I can argue with the suggestion that Trump is responsible for the DJIA 26,000

1) Correlation is not the same thing as causation

2) http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-...-last-10-years

If we're playing this game, Obama was responsible for the post 2008 recovery bounce., Trump is riding his coat tails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
The US stock market underperformed the Eurozone with Trump as president while it typically outperformed the same under Obama. Getting worse relative to the global economy. Sad.
Now you liberals are crying that the unemployment rate ONLY dropped by 16% in his first year? No other President had that big of a drop during their first year. And you give Obama credit for the stock market, but now that it has hit record levels, President Trump had nothing to do with it? Liberal logic for you. Look at all the companies giving bonuses and raises because of the tax cut - only liberals still butt-hurt by the election would cry about more money staying in peoples pockets.

(channeling a Trump voter)
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:05 AM
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Are we comparing Presidents based on their first year in office vs. previous Presidents' first year in office, previous Presidents' last year in office, or something else? And what are Presidents responsible for, specifically?

Regards,
Shodan
WE are not comparing anything with anything.

As for what Presidents are responsible for, apparently in the hearts and minds if thump supporters, he is responsible for the rising and setting of the sun. And gravity.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:25 AM
CurtC CurtC is offline
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I'm surprised that none mentioned that no passenger airliners crashed anywhere in the world last year.
  #11  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:31 AM
puddleglum puddleglum is offline
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A great side effect of the Trump presidency is that people are starting to realize that the President does not control the stock market or the economy. I don't expect it to last but for now it is nice.
  #12  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:34 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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President Trump cured my lupus.
  #13  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:40 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
WE are not comparing anything with anything.
Posts #3, #5, and #6 did.
Quote:
As for what Presidents are responsible for, apparently in the hearts and minds if thump supporters, he is responsible for the rising and setting of the sun. And gravity.
I didn't see any letters to the editor that said anything like that. Is this belief of yours based on anything demonstrable?

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:47 AM
running coach running coach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Posts #3, #5, and #6 did.
I didn't see any letters to the editor that said anything like that. Is this belief of yours based on anything demonstrable?

Regards,
Shodan
Sarcasm
Quote:
noun
1.
harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2.
a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark:
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:59 AM
Jophiel Jophiel is offline
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Originally Posted by beagledave View Post
If we're playing this game, Obama was responsible for the post 2008 recovery bounce., Trump is riding his coat tails.
In fact, the DJIA's progress so far has been remarkably similar to when Obama was in office. Only Obama was pulling it out of an economic collapse while Trump inherited a working economy.

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stoc...e-by-president
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:02 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
In fact, the DJIA's progress so far has been remarkably similar to when Obama was in office. Only Obama was pulling it out of an economic collapse while Trump inherited a working economy.

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stoc...e-by-president
This smacks of critical reasoning skills. That's a no-no. The answer is "Maybe, but Obummer doubled the National Debt!"
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:08 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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This smacks of critical reasoning skills. That's a no-no. The answer is "Maybe, but Obummer doubled the National Debt!"
Only doubled?... Amateur. I bet Trump will quadruple it in a quarter of the time. MAGA FTW!
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:10 AM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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This smacks of critical reasoning skills. That's a no-no. The answer is "Maybe, but Obummer doubled the National Debt!"
To which the correct reply is that the debt went up significantly because of the tax structure, economy, and obligations (wars) that he inherited from Bush rather than policies Obama put in place.
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:11 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Only doubled?... Amateur. I bet Trump will quadruple it in a quarter of the time. MAGA FTW!
When that happens, then the answer will be "So? tax rates are at all time low, and look at my 401k! Besides, who cares about debt anyway?"
  #20  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:12 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
To which the correct reply is that the debt went up significantly because of the tax structure, economy, and obligations (wars) that he inherited from Bush rather than policies Obama put in place.
"Blah, blah, blah, blah nothing bad is Obummer's fault, yet everything bad is Trump's fault. Typical liberal"
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:13 AM
DrCube DrCube is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Are we comparing Presidents based on their first year in office vs. previous Presidents' first year in office, previous Presidents' last year in office, or something else? And what are Presidents responsible for, specifically?
Good questions. The answer is whatever makes your team look better than the other team.
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:32 AM
bobot bobot is offline
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
WE are not comparing anything with anything.

As for what Presidents are responsible for, apparently in the hearts and minds if thump supporters, he is responsible for the rising and setting of the sun. And gravity.
https://politics.theonion.com/huckab...-fo-1822163179

The Onion:
"Chastising the assembled reporters for failing to cover the story, press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders repeatedly insisted Wednesday that President Trumpís footprints created the Great Lakes. "
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:34 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Good questions. The answer is whatever makes your team look better than the other team.
That leaves the Trumpeteers with golf and lying. And Trump cheats at golf. So, just lying.
  #24  
Old 01-18-2018, 12:18 PM
corkboard corkboard is offline
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The best thing about the Trump presidency is that it's creating a more informed and vocal electorate.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:38 PM
ZipperJJ ZipperJJ is offline
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Originally Posted by corkboard View Post
The best thing about the Trump presidency is that it's creating a more informed and vocal electorate.
Is it tho? For every young person who is paying more attention or skeptical person who is watching more news, there's two of my parents who used to believe everything they heard on the news who now consider everything "fake news." Even the real stuff. Except the stuff they hear from This Guy Who Called In To The Radio Show I Listen To.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:05 PM
rbroome rbroome is offline
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I get that few people here like Trump.
I am disappointed that this thread so quickly ran off the rails.
The OP pointed to a number of articulate and reasonable statements from Trump supporters and asked for comments regarding those statements. After a few initial replies, everything was an attack on Trump that ignored the OP.

We don't need to tell each other about how horrible Trump is. We get that.
If we want to change things, we need to understand what is really going on-which means understanding what is driving perceptions. Focusing on facts and ignoring perceptions is going to get us 8 years of Trump.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:25 PM
HeweyLogan HeweyLogan is offline
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
You know how whenever someone asks Trump supporters here to come forward with a clear, articulate, straightforward statement of why they support him, no one ever does?
Plenty of people have, you and a cadre of others around here just choose to dismiss it, ignore it, or handwave it all away as illegitimate because it came from a "deplorable".

In other words, it's never asked honestly, or with the idea of actually understanding where the other side is coming from.

Add into that the nine year old "thump", "der leader", and "trumpist" insults and one who leans right might think 'what's the point?'

But this guy from the article explains it to me better than the example you used...

Quote:
I voted against Hillary Clinton more than I voted for Donald Trump. That said, President Trump has exceeded my wildest expectations. Yes, he is embarrassing. Yes, he picks unnecessary fights. But he also pushed tax reform through, has largely defeated ISIS in Iraq, has named a number of solid conservative judges, has prioritized American citizens over illegal immigrants, has gotten us out of several bad international agreements, has removed a number of wasteful regulations, is putting real pressure on North Korea and Iran, has reined in a number of out-of-control agencies, and so on and so on.

I loved George W. Bush, but he failed on policy over and over again. If it takes putting up with Mr. Trumpís brash ways to see things get done, that is a deal Iím willing to accept. To be honest, Iím not sure he would have accomplished what he has so far without being an unrelenting public bully.
I'd add to that the desire to get away from phony say-what'll-get-me-elected not what I'm going to do politician, and it explains my position pretty well.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:40 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by rbroome View Post
I get that few people here like Trump.
I am disappointed that this thread so quickly ran off the rails.
The OP pointed to a number of articulate and reasonable statements from Trump supporters and asked for comments regarding those statements. After a few initial replies, everything was an attack on Trump that ignored the OP.

We don't need to tell each other about how horrible Trump is. We get that.
If we want to change things, we need to understand what is really going on-which means understanding what is driving perceptions. Focusing on facts and ignoring perceptions is going to get us 8 years of Trump.
Then I believe this thread has severely whooshed you. The OP itself mocks these people for how gullible they are. The only way to read the rest is that she is being extremely sarcastic. There's nothing remotely articulate or reasonable about anything given in these.

But, even if I'm wrong about the intent, I'll also point out that literally nothing in any of these is a surprise. None of this is stuff that hasn't been mentioned here. None of it is anything but populism and strongman worship. The good things that happen are all because of the guy you like, and the bad things that happen are all because of the guy you don't like.

I wish understanding these people was the solution, but it's not. Not in the slightest. We all understand this mindset. But if we could stop it, then the fight against ignorance would have been won long ago. There is nothing new under the sun, just more of it than we thought.

Our main goal right now is merely a war of attrition. We go after those most likely to defect, hoping to get enough that we can prevent the diehards from taking over. People who fully support Trump are not our current target.

Especially when they are using such obvious motivated reasoning, inventing things to support Trump over that Trump didn't even run on.
  #29  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:41 PM
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbroome View Post
I get that few people here like Trump.
I am disappointed that this thread so quickly ran off the rails.
The OP pointed to a number of articulate and reasonable statements from Trump supporters and asked for comments regarding those statements. After a few initial replies, everything was an attack on Trump that ignored the OP.
...
I'm so glad you brought this up. Thank you.

I'd like those Dopers who have access to the NYTimes to go and read the letters and tell us what you think. These writers are not the angry, left-behind deplorables, miners, factory workers or rural hicks from flyover country. They aren't [NOTE: Spoiler contains non-PC language. If you are easily offended, do not look. Read at your own risk. You have been warned.]
SPOILER:
Mrs. & Mrs. Joe Six-Pack, Honey Boo-Boo, aka trailer park trash.
Some of the statements coming from these educated, employed, somewhat intellectual types frankly appall me. They seem to believe most of the hype that thump puts forth about himself. They honestly believe he defeated ISIS, healed the economy, and made the stock market blow through the roof. Hence my extrapolation to assuming he makes the sun rise and set.

Please let's hear some other comments about the letters themselves.

Tomorrow they're going to publish letters from thump supporters who are now disillusioned.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:44 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeweyLogan View Post
Plenty of people have, you and a cadre of others around here just choose to dismiss it, ignore it, or handwave it all away as illegitimate because it came from a "deplorable".

In other words, it's never asked honestly, or with the idea of actually understanding where the other side is coming from.

Add into that the nine year old "thump", "der leader", and "trumpist" insults and one who leans right might think 'what's the point?'

But this guy from the article explains it to me better than the example you used...



I'd add to that the desire to get away from phony say-what'll-get-me-elected not what I'm going to do politician, and it explains my position pretty well.
Tax reforms for the very and uber rich and corporations. A very small piece of the pie for the middle class. Which are temporary.
ISIS was under 40% of it's previously held territory. Trump made no change in the way the war was persecuted rather he (or "his generals") stayed the course.
He also appointed some incredibly unqualified so-called judges.
Good or bad, the agreements are a matter of opinion. Example, the Paris Accord, we're not out of yet and won't be for a while. It's only bad if you don't believe science.
Wasteful regulations? Can you name any and explain how it's wasteful?
Childish insults are not pressure. So far, it's seems to have had the opposite effect with the Korean Dumpling.
What are those out-of-control agencies and just what did he do to bring them under control?
So far, this looks like "Trump Talking Points 101", not actual analysis.
  #31  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:47 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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The letters seem standard to me. They all mention the same things. Like I said, it's hard to argue that the economy isn't better when the Dow is a new record, unemployment is down (a record low for African Americans), taxes will be lower for most people, and businesses are giving bonuses and raises.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:56 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
... Trump made no change in the way the war was persecuted rather he (or "his generals") stayed the course. ...
This is false. Here is a short C-SPAN video of the Secretary of Defense discussing some of the changes made under Trump.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:02 PM
John Bredin John Bredin is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
The letters seem standard to me. They all mention the same things. Like I said, it's hard to argue that the economy isn't better when the Dow is a new record, unemployment is down (a record low for African Americans), taxes will be lower for most people, and businesses are giving bonuses and raises.
(Emphasis added) To whom?
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:04 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Originally Posted by rbroome View Post
I get that few people here like Trump.
I am disappointed that this thread so quickly ran off the rails.
The OP pointed to a number of articulate and reasonable statements from Trump supporters and asked for comments regarding those statements. After a few initial replies, everything was an attack on Trump that ignored the OP.

We don't need to tell each other about how horrible Trump is. We get that.
If we want to change things, we need to understand what is really going on-which means understanding what is driving perceptions. Focusing on facts and ignoring perceptions is going to get us 8 years of Trump.
What is driving the perceptions of Trump supporters are "news" sites that spout slanted propaganda and unabashed lies. When this meshes well with the perceptions of the viewer, the viewed material is taken as gospel.

That's the problem.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:08 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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(Emphasis added) To whom?
Walmart for one.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:12 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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This is false. Here is a short C-SPAN video of the Secretary of Defense discussing some of the changes made under Trump.
I only heard one change. Surrounding ISIS.
Which can only be done when the area is small enough. The video was on May 19, 2017. Five months of further shrinkage of ISIS held territory before the surround tactic.
Are you saying that Obama wouldn't have done that?
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:16 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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I only heard one change. Surrounding ISIS.
Which can only be done when the area is small enough. The video was on May 19, 2017. Five months of further shrinkage of ISIS held territory before the surround tactic.
Are you saying that Obama wouldn't have done that?
I'm saying that your earlier statement - Trump made no change in the way the war was persecuted rather he (or "his generals") stayed the course" - is false. Whether it was just one change or 17 changes isn't important. You said "no change", so any non-zero number of changes disproves your claim.
  #38  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:28 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I'm saying that your earlier statement - Trump made no change in the way the war was persecuted rather he (or "his generals") stayed the course" - is false. Whether it was just one change or 17 changes isn't important. You said "no change", so any non-zero number of changes disproves your claim.
He continued Obama's course until circumstances allowed a change. He did not make an immediate change upon taking office.
Of course, it wasn't Trump at all but "his generals" who would have made the change, possibly after advising Trump of the appropriateness of such action.
Do you really think Trump is a military mastermind of some sort?
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:31 PM
ZipperJJ ZipperJJ is offline
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Walmart for one.
Well that's one business, not businesses. And they are raising pay from $10 to $11. You still can't live on $11 an hour. And bonuses are averaging $190...17 hours of pay. For the year. Wooh.

I also question the glory of the unemployment rate going down. Even when it went down under Obama. Yeah jobs are being filled but people are still being under-paid and over-worked. Or are more people leaving the workforce and opting for retirement (being that Boomers started turning 65 in 2013), reducing the number of adults looking for work without adults getting jobs? Anyway, people aren't making living wages. It's all a mathematical ruse.

In my circle of family & friends most everyone is retired (with this thing called a pension?), on medical disability, or in a job that has increased hours but not pay. The only person I know who is doing quite well is a waitress, who happens to be a really great waitress because she's done it for over 20 years now.

Anyway, getting back to the letters, I'd like to know where and how people are actually personally feeling positive effects of a "booming" economy. Or are they just basing their assumptions on the color of the stock market arrow?
  #40  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:32 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
He continued Obama's course until circumstances allowed a change. He did not make an immediate change upon taking office.
Of course, it wasn't Trump at all but "his generals" who would have made the change, possibly after advising Trump of the appropriateness of such action.
Do you really think Trump is a military mastermind of some sort?
No offense, but this is really a cop out. You said he made no changes, and he did. It's best to just admit it, and then move on to another issue.
  #41  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:33 PM
HeweyLogan HeweyLogan is offline
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And here we go again.

Last edited by HeweyLogan; 01-18-2018 at 02:36 PM.
  #42  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:33 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
... Do you really think Trump is a military mastermind of some sort?
No. I just think your earlier statement is wrong.

And I don't think either one of us has any way to know what Obama would have done had he still been in charge through 2017. He was no military mastermind either.
  #43  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:38 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by ZipperJJ View Post
Well that's one business, not businesses. And they are raising pay from $10 to $11. You still can't live on $11 an hour. And bonuses are averaging $190...17 hours of pay. For the year. Wooh.
Well, Here are some more. Besides, it's not a position I'm arguing, just one that hard to argue against. Sure, you can say the raises weren't big, or the bonuses aren't much, but they are something. And for the most part, the businesses quote the new tax law as the reason for doing it.

Quote:
I also question the glory of the unemployment rate going down. Even when it went down under Obama. Yeah jobs are being filled but people are still being under-paid and over-worked. Or are more people leaving the workforce and opting for retirement (being that Boomers started turning 65 in 2013), reducing the number of adults looking for work without adults getting jobs? Anyway, people aren't making living wages. It's all a mathematical ruse
Sure, that's an argument that you can make. But it prevents you from ever using the unemployment rate as a statistic in favor of Obama. That's up to you.

Quote:
Anyway, getting back to the letters, I'd like to know where and how people are actually personally feeling positive effects of a "booming" economy. Or are they just basing their assumptions on the color of the stock market arrow?
The people I know are basing it on their 401k and investments as the stock market climbs. I myself got a raise and a bonus. And I don't even agree with the tax cut. But the economy seems to be chugging right along.
  #44  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:50 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
No. I just think your earlier statement is wrong.

And I don't think either one of us has any way to know what Obama would have done had he still been in charge through 2017. He was no military mastermind either.
Then stop blaming Obama and crediting Trump.
The fact is, someone thought the strategy that was followed by the Obama military was working and it was continued by the Trump military until an option that was previously unavailable became possible.
Reacting to new developments is not the same as changing a strategy.

I guess Trump's secret plan to defeat ISIS was to follow Obama's lead for a while.
  #45  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:00 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Then stop blaming Obama and crediting Trump.
The fact is, someone thought the strategy that was followed by the Obama military was working and it was continued by the Trump military until an option that was previously unavailable became possible.
Reacting to new developments is not the same as changing a strategy.

I guess Trump's secret plan to defeat ISIS was to follow Obama's lead for a while.
Please, stop digging that hole. You were wrong on a minor point. Just admit it. No one is asking you to praise Trump. Just don't post stuff about him that is factually incorrect.

Last edited by John Mace; 01-18-2018 at 03:01 PM.
  #46  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:02 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Then stop blaming Obama and crediting Trump.
The fact is, someone thought the strategy that was followed by the Obama military was working and it was continued by the Trump military until an option that was previously unavailable became possible.
Reacting to new developments is not the same as changing a strategy.

I guess Trump's secret plan to defeat ISIS was to follow Obama's lead for a while.
You were wrong, and your inability to admit it is unbecoming. Here is another link with some additional information:

Quote:
Defense Secretary James Mattis said President Donald Trump has empowered commanders to more aggressively target the Islamic State as part of a new approach to "annihilate" the militant group.

The president has "delegated authority to the right level to aggressively and in a timely manner move against enemy vulnerabilities," Mattis said during a press conference Friday at the Pentagon.

The commander in chief, who ordered a review of the conflict after taking office, has also "directed a tactical shift from shoving ISIS out of safe locations in an attrition fight to surrounding the enemy in their strongholds so we can annihilate ISIS," Mattis added. "The intent is to prevent the return home of escaped foreign fighters."

The defense secretary, a retired Marine general, appeared alongside Joint Chiefs Chairman Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford -- who also Friday was reappointed to another two-year term -- and Brett McGurk, the State Department's special presidential envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIS to present an updated plan for Operation Inherent Resolve, the military's name for the fight against ISIS.
If your takeaway from that is that "Trump made no change in the way the war was [prosecuted]", I'm flabbergasted. I don't think we're even living in the same universe anymore.
  #47  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:05 PM
bobot bobot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Walmart for one.
Immediately followed by the closings of a bunch of Sam's Clubs.
  #48  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:07 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
You were wrong, and your inability to admit it is unbecoming. Here is another link with some additional information:



If your takeaway from that is that "Trump made no change in the way the war was [prosecuted]", I'm flabbergasted. I don't think we're even living in the same universe anymore.
Again, that was May 19. What was being done for the five months before? Maybe following the previous strategy?
You'd have a point if this was dated Jan 21. Then Trump could claim he changed the course.
  #49  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:08 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Immediately followed by the closings of a bunch of Sam's Clubs.
Yes, you are correct. Doesn't negate the fact that they gave out bonuses and raised wages, which is what I said. And is what I hear from Trump supporters. When the companies in question directly quote the tax cut as the reason they are giving bonuses and raises, it's really hard to argue that they are not doing it because of the tax cut.
  #50  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:10 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Again, that was May 19. What was being done for the five months before?
Reviewing the previously strategy? Still seems weird that you are fighting this point.
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