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Old 02-14-2018, 02:22 PM
Biotop Biotop is offline
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Another School Shooting [Stoneman Douglas]

It appears to be happening again. This time in Florida. Reports of many injuries. Again.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:39 PM
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Here is a link to the developing story on CNN.

"Numerous fatalities", exact number unknown. It appears the gunman is in custody.

Last edited by Sunny Daze; 02-14-2018 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:50 PM
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#18 for the year. But, yeah, no need for background checks and all that silly stuff. Let's just send our thoughts and prayers...
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:54 PM
Leo Krupe Leo Krupe is offline
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#18 for the year. But, yeah, no need for background checks and all that silly stuff. Let's just send our thoughts and prayers...
Are the politicians even doing that anymore?
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:03 PM
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Are the politicians even doing that anymore?
Did they ever, or did they just say they were?
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:13 PM
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Suspected shooter's in custody. White guy, from the overhead helicopter video of him getting stuffed into a cruiser, and allegedly a "troubled" 20 year old ex-student of the school. So probably not 'terrorism.' His name's also floating around, but I don't think it's been confirmed, so I'm not linking it.

There's cell video floating around, allegedly of one of the classrooms while he was shooting it up. It's terrifying, as you'd expect.

Disgusting. Hang this piece of shit after a trial where it's established that he committed these crimes. And along the way figure out whether this guy should have been running around on the outside to begin with.

Edit: Per Senator Bill Nelson (FL)'s twitter, there's "a number of fatalities."

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 02-14-2018 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:39 PM
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FWIW, I added today's to this thread, post #30.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:53 PM
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A white guy did it, you say? Probably just a "lone wolf", then. Possibly even "troubled". We'll know more when Trump actually addresses the issue in a couple of days (if then).
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:05 PM
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A white guy did it, you say? Probably just a "lone wolf", then. Possibly even "troubled". We'll know more when Trump actually addresses the issue in a couple of days (if then).
I think Trump actually tweeted about it about an hour ago. Which is about as good as it'll get, if you want a response from him. And truthfully, given separation of powers, about as much as he should get involved in something like this. It's not a Federal case or issue. It's a Florida issue, and a tragic one.

Per Josh Caplan and ABC news, death toll is at 15 now.

I think the shooter's been ID'd formally. Allegedly, he'd been asked to leave the school in the past for making students uncomfortable. Shame it, so far, doesn't seem to have risen to him getting arrested at the time.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:27 PM
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I'm always glad when people like this are taken alive, so we know why they did it.

I don't want to say "Why didn't he just kill himself first?" because I knew somebody who did that, in front of his kids, no less.

It goes without saying that it was in a mostly white, apparently affluent area, or it wouldn't get major news coverage.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:32 PM
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#18 for the year. But, yeah, no need for background checks and all that silly stuff. Let's just send our thoughts and prayers...
Background checks? How much background can you find for 4th graders?
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:36 PM
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It goes without saying that it was in a mostly white, apparently affluent area, or it wouldn't get major news coverage.
17 dead in a school is always going to get coverage though.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:54 PM
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17 dead in a school is always going to get coverage though.
In a lot of countries it would even be front page news. Most civilised countries anyway, the ones where these sorts of things are rare.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:54 PM
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17 dead in a school is always going to get coverage though.
Don't be so sure. This one was barely reported outside the immediate area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Lake_shootings

I've always believed that if Sandy Hook had happened in a poverty-stricken area where most or all of the victims were black and/or Hispanic, it might not even have made the local news, and would only be discussed on racist blogs. I hope this theory is never put to the test.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 02-14-2018 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:56 PM
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Thoughts are with all of the families, those that lost someone and also all of the parents that are going through hell wondering about the safety of their child.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:57 PM
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Per Josh Caplan and ABC news, death toll is at 15 now.

I think the shooter's been ID'd formally. Allegedly, he'd been asked to leave the school in the past for making students uncomfortable. Shame it, so far, doesn't seem to have risen to him getting arrested at the time.
I heard that it's been raised to 17.

NBC News named the suspect and said he was expelled from that school last year. I wonder what he did, because I didn't think schools did that anymore.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:06 PM
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More martyrs to the right to resist tyranny.

Might as well pin this thread, and update as necessary. Every few days.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:07 PM
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I've always believed that if Sandy Hook had happened in a poverty-stricken area where most or all of the victims were black and/or Hispanic, it might not even have made the local news, and would only be discussed on racist blogs. I hope this theory is never put to the test.
C'mon, that was 20 little kids and six adults killed. "It might not even have made the local news"
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:09 PM
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If you don't like it, repeal the 2nd.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:29 PM
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Senator Bill Nelson just said the shooter threw smoke grenades, pulled the fire alarm, and shot the kids as they came pouring out of the room.

Jesus.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:33 PM
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If you don't like it, repeal the 2nd.
I agree, but then what?
Systematically take everyone's weapons?
How about holding the people close to him accountable?
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:42 PM
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I don't like seeing my hometown covered on all the national news stations.
Several of my coworkers have kids there. As far as I've been able to tell, everyone is accounted for. It's apparently hard for them to get home right now, because of all the activity.
Friends of mine live within walking distance of the school.
I went to high school with the principal. I'm sure he was quite busy today - it took a few hours for anyone to surface on Facebook and confirm that he's ok.

It's been a surreal afternoon and evening. It reminds me of the airport shooting just over a year ago - local story, big news. That one faded into the background. I suspect "Stoneman Douglas" will be referenced in the same breath as "Sandy Hook."
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:43 PM
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Suspected shooter's in custody. White guy, from the overhead helicopter video of him getting stuffed into a cruiser, and allegedly a "troubled" 20 year old ex-student of the school. So probably not 'terrorism.' His name's also floating around, but I don't think it's been confirmed, so I'm not linking it.

There's cell video floating around, allegedly of one of the classrooms while he was shooting it up. It's terrifying, as you'd expect.

Disgusting. Hang this piece of shit after a trial where it's established that he committed these crimes. And along the way figure out whether this guy should have been running around on the outside to begin with.

Edit: Per Senator Bill Nelson (FL)'s twitter, there's "a number of fatalities."

White guy surnamed Cruz. Want to bet that a bunch of Whites will say Cruz, being Hispanic, is not really White?

Some of us find capital punishment not only disgusting but also immoral. What would it accomplish other than feed your blood lust?

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A white guy did it, you say? Probably just a "lone wolf", then. Possibly even "troubled". We'll know more when Trump actually addresses the issue in a couple of days (if then).
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Originally Posted by Uncommon Sense View Post
I agree, but then what?
Systematically take everyone's weapons?
How about holding the people close to him accountable?

What would they be accountable for? He's 19 or 20. Presumably whatever his past issues were they were not severe enough legally for more severe action than what was taken. Do you want his parents punished simply because they are his parents? How is that sensible?

Last edited by Monty; 02-14-2018 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:46 PM
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I think that a big driving force for more support for the measures necessary to reduce these shootings - whether it's gun control, more availability of psychiatric care for troubled people, or both - will be the emergence of more video recordings of it. I truly think that if people, including legislators, SEE and HEAR these incidents happening, it will make it more personal for them in a way that just reading about it will not. As much pessimism as there is regarding the inertia of tightening gun restrictions, I think enough of these video recordings emerging will indeed motivate some attempts at changing it. I am an owner of guns and a supporter of the general idea of the 2nd Amendment but come on, these conservatives shoot down (no pun intended) even the most MINIMAL attempts at reasonable controls like better background checks. I think they'd be less inclined to do so if they saw videos of these massacres.

In summation: I think the general societal trend of people recording things with their phones all the time, may eventually be what motivates action to be taken on this issue.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:49 PM
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His Instagram was captured by the wayback machine.

Um. His name has been released, and if you search his name on FB, it links to the wayback snapshots of it. I dont know if it is ok to post here.

Last edited by raventhief; 02-14-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:51 PM
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What would they be accountable for? He's 19 or 20. Presumably whatever his past issues were they were not severe enough legally for more severe action than what was taken. Do you want his parents punished simply because they are his parents? How is that sensible?
I'm just fed up with everyone close to anyone who does this saying "We never saw this coming, he was such a great guy." Bullshit.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:55 PM
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White guy surnamed Cruz. Want to bet that a bunch of Whites will say Cruz, being Hispanic, is not really White?

Some of us find capital punishment not only disgusting but also immoral. What would it accomplish other than feed your blood lust?
What's the point of keeping this pile of shit alive with all the new perks of prison life. Free healthcare, probably better than a lot of people, free internet, free food for the rest of his life. He gets to live for the next 60 years on your $.

Beat the shit out of him, try him and execute him.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Monty:
White guy surnamed Cruz. Want to bet that a bunch of Whites will say Cruz, being Hispanic, is not really White?
Would it make you happier if his name was John Smith or Drew? You seem a little disappointed or something.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:03 PM
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I'm just fed up with everyone close to anyone who does this saying "We never saw this coming, he was such a great guy." Bullshit.
Darren Osborne, who has just been sentenced to life for ramming his van into a queue outside a mosque in London was widely reported in the UK media, after asking his neighbours, thusly: "He's always been a complete cunt"
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:03 PM
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In summation: I think the general societal trend of people recording things with their phones all the time, may eventually be what motivates action to be taken on this issue.
I'm not being snarky, but public executions didn't seem to do much to deter things. Beyond that stat]ement, I'm not hijiacking this thread. Perhaps I'll start another thread about that sometime. It might be worth discussing.

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I'm just fed up with everyone close to anyone who does this saying "We never saw this coming, he was such a great guy." Bullshit.
Agreed. But in this particular case, I saw an interview with a witness (CBS Evening News) who said that he knew the shooter since the 6th grade, and called him a "juvenile" (I'm sure from the context he meant "juvenile delinquent") because he was always getting in trouble with teachers, and trying to be the "cool" kid.

So in this instance, we have at least one statement saying the accused is a turd, not a great guy.

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What's the point of keeping this pile of shit alive with all the new perks of prison life. Free healthcare, probably better than a lot of people, free internet, free food for the rest of his life. He gets to live for the next 60 years on your $.

Beat the shit out of him, try him and execute him.
Presuming he goes to trial, is convicted, and imprisoned, he wouldn't be free though. And if he were to ever be released, he'd be a convicted felon and murderer.

Besides, we don't practice frontier justice in this country anymore.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:08 PM
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Would it make you happier if his name was John Smith or Drew? You seem a little disappointed or something.
I believe you may have misunderstood the post.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:21 PM
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Gotta ban them schools.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:33 PM
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White guy surnamed Cruz. Want to bet that a bunch of Whites will say Cruz, being Hispanic, is not really White?
Clarify for me, then. Hispanic people are generally included under the heading "brown people" are they not? Especially when we are talking about bigoted white people and their hatred of immigrants? Is he a white guy now because he did something awful?
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:33 PM
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I believe you may have misunderstood the post.
At least three posters in this thread felt the need to immediately label the shooter a white guy, and also before much, if any information was available, just wondering why that's so important, and how it makes any difference.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:36 PM
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White guy surnamed Cruz. Want to bet that a bunch of Whites will say Cruz, being Hispanic, is not really White?

Some of us find capital punishment not only disgusting but also immoral. What would it accomplish other than feed your blood lust?






What would they be accountable for? He's 19 or 20. Presumably whatever his past issues were they were not severe enough legally for more severe action than what was taken. Do you want his parents punished simply because they are his parents? How is that sensible?
The casual racism at this place, directed to anyone white and not left-leaning, is increasingly unpleasant to read. There is zero chance that you'd make similar comments about any other culture or ethnicity, but nevertheless, you feel perfectly entitled to make that slur against whatever white boogeyman exists in your head.

To answer your first question, though, I voted happily for Senator Ted Cruz, and while his ethnicity did not factor into my vote, I'd consider him, just looking at him, to be Caucasian. Heck, even listening to him. I work and interact with many people of Latin American ancestry, who are much whiter than I am---benefit of being so close to Mexico---so a surname of "Cruz" would not mean I wouldn't think he was "white." Not that it matters one way or the next, except to the statisticians.

Second question, executing him---provided it's proven he did these crimes---prevents this piece of filth from committing any more acts of violence against anyone else: prison guards, inmates, or the rest of the population when society deems him "cured." See Kenneth McDuff, and others.

Finally, while we do not as a rule in the US, punish parents for the actions of their adult offspring, I understand the impulse to do so. This guy did everything up to taking out an ad in the paper telling people he was going to do something like this. His parents were the closest ones to see what this kid was turning into, and it would have been nice for them to put this guy into the system, or hell, take away his Modern Warfare 2 and his Instagram, before he finally snapped.

Punishing his parents incentivizes them to do their job and raise a contributing member of society. Or at least warn us before he loses it. I don't agree with that point of view, but I sympathize with it.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:46 PM
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At least three posters in this thread felt the need to immediately label the shooter a white guy, and also before much, if any information was available, just wondering why that's so important, and how it makes any difference.
Because, unfortunately, in our day and age, besides students and postal workers going, well, postal, there's an increasing threat of Islamic terrorism in both the States and Europe. Seeing a white guy, sans beard getting cuffed into the back of a squad car doesn't necessarily mean he isn't Muslim---Chechens anyone?---but it makes it less likely. And schools are an easy target for inspiring fear and terror. Compare similar mug shots and other photos of perpetrators of Islamic-inspired violence in the US. There were the Tsarnaevs, of course. Whom we were warned about too...

But your virtue signalling has been duly noted. Good for you! EDIT: Reading back through the thread, I believe I was hasty in snarking at you specifically, Pool. I apologize. The first paragraph is why I bothered mentioning the guy's race.

With that out of the way, any ideas for stopping this sort of thing, anyone? Hard to get the cops much closer to the scene than stationed at the school, as happened here. And it'd be child's play to sub a shotgun in for the Smith & Wesson AR he used. Locking up the violent seems like a good start, though it'll be overinclusive as hell..

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 02-14-2018 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:52 PM
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How do you tell the difference between a mentally unstable person and a dangerously mentally unstable person? I don't think it is all that uncommon to know or at least be aware of a few of the former.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:55 PM
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But your virtue signalling has been duly noted. Good for you!
What exact virtue do you believe I'm signaling?
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Last edited by pool; 02-14-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:02 PM
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There's not a whole lot that can be done to prevent these things without infringing on inalienable rights. It's one of the prices we pay for living in a free society.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:03 PM
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I saw your edit just now Gray Ghost, I'll leave it at that.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:08 PM
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There's not a whole lot that can be done to prevent these things without infringing on inalienable rights. It's one of the prices we pay for living in a free society.
A pretty high price.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:11 PM
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Was there indeed a police officer assigned to this school that was there when the shooting occurred? Its a sad necessity but given the reality we live in where these things do occur too frequently, its probably wise to have a police officer assigned to any school with a certain number of students, it that the current policy nationwide? The other thing that sucks is it sounds like at least from one or two interviews I read of a classmate and also a former teacher, everyone seemed to think this guy was trouble and might do something like this. Legally there is only so much one can do till someone commits sufficient criminal acts to be imprisoned or monitored. Similar situation to when a woman is stalked by her ex boyfriend who tows the line of legality, and she may get a restraining order but ultimately the guy shows up at her house one night and kills her.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:12 PM
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Would it make you happier if his name was John Smith or Drew? You seem a little disappointed or something.
What the heck are you on about? How did you read that nonsense into what I posted?
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:15 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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The casual racism at this place, directed to anyone white and not left-leaning, is increasingly unpleasant to read. There is zero chance that you'd make similar comments about any other culture or ethnicity, but nevertheless, you feel perfectly entitled to make that slur against whatever white boogeyman exists in your head.

To answer your first question, though, I voted happily for Senator Ted Cruz, and while his ethnicity did not factor into my vote, I'd consider him, just looking at him, to be Caucasian. Heck, even listening to him. I work and interact with many people of Latin American ancestry, who are much whiter than I am---benefit of being so close to Mexico---so a surname of "Cruz" would not mean I wouldn't think he was "white." Not that it matters one way or the next, except to the statisticians.

Second question, executing him---provided it's proven he did these crimes---prevents this piece of filth from committing any more acts of violence against anyone else: prison guards, inmates, or the rest of the population when society deems him "cured." See Kenneth McDuff, and others.

Finally, while we do not as a rule in the US, punish parents for the actions of their adult offspring, I understand the impulse to do so. This guy did everything up to taking out an ad in the paper telling people he was going to do something like this. His parents were the closest ones to see what this kid was turning into, and it would have been nice for them to put this guy into the system, or hell, take away his Modern Warfare 2 and his Instagram, before he finally snapped.

Punishing his parents incentivizes them to do their job and raise a contributing member of society. Or at least warn us before he loses it. I don't agree with that point of view, but I sympathize with it.
Your entire post is utter nonsense. Just for fun, read exactly what I posted, then have the fortitude to apologize for your ridiculous post accusing me of racism.

Last edited by Monty; 02-14-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:20 PM
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Clarify for me, then. Hispanic people are generally included under the heading "brown people" are they not? Especially when we are talking about bigoted white people and their hatred of immigrants? Is he a white guy now because he did something awful?
My point is that bigoted Whites will claim he's not really White because he's Hispanic, regardless of census categories, and therefore those bigots will whine about people pointing out yet another mass killer is a White guy.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
The casual racism at this place, directed to anyone white and not left-leaning, is increasingly unpleasant to read.…
Apologies for your feelings there. We have a very lengthy thread in the Pit that comes with a whole lot of links to stories about the police needlessly shitting on non-whites. Many of those people deserve(d) much less attention from the authorities, and none of them killed a bunch of innocent victims for whatever non-reason. This “casual racism” is not “casual”, it is there for a legitimate reason. I cannot even remember when one of these mass shooters was a minority.

Quote:
… take away his Modern Warfare 2 …
This is some lame-ass nonsense. Violent games do not make people violent. They are a symptom, not a cause.
  #47  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:39 PM
Paul in Qatar Paul in Qatar is offline
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"My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school."
-President Donald J Trump
five hours ago
  #48  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:41 PM
pool pool is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monty:
My point is that bigoted Whites will claim he's not really White because he's Hispanic, regardless of census categories, and therefore those bigots will whine about people pointing out yet another mass killer is a White guy.
If
This happened in America, if race is mostly a social construct, calling someone white in America conjures up certain images. The census categories also consider Middle Easterners and North Africans as white, but most Americans probably don't consider these groups white, you can't have it both ways, Hispanics usually get lumped in with "persons of color", you are trying to label him with a social identity he probably doesn't even self identify with, and you clearly have some axe to grind, the only person whining is you. You are doing the very thing you are preemptively accusing these white bigots of doing, ignoring reality if it doesn't fit the narrative in your own mind. Why do you feel the need to label him white? Is that what your most important takeaway of this incident is?
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  #49  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:49 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
With that out of the way, any ideas for stopping this sort of thing, anyone?
Arm the teachers. Or at least the administrative staff.
  #50  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:53 PM
adaher adaher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyChatMom View Post
#18 for the year. But, yeah, no need for background checks and all that silly stuff. Let's just send our thoughts and prayers...
Background checks wouldn't have stopped this school shooting. Or any school shootings.
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