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Old 02-14-2018, 08:32 PM
John_Stamos'_Left_Ear John_Stamos'_Left_Ear is offline
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The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of school children

Thoughts and prayers everyone.

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Old 02-14-2018, 08:43 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is offline
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I was just having a discussion with my wife about the horrible state of this country's gun laws and the fact that our 4 year old son, 4 YEARS OLD had his first "bad man" drill at his pre-k 3.

But fuck dying children, Americans have to have their fucking fetish trophies. Priorities.
  #3  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:52 PM
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Well, the first step to making things better is actually understanding why gun owners are the way they are.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:53 PM
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Thoughts and prayers, baby. Thoughts and prayers.

‘Scuse me while I go out and buy some more guns, because you just KNOW the libtards are gonna make a whole big deal about this again.
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:58 PM
adaher adaher is offline
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Not really. Their "We must do something!" means about as much as "thoughts and prayers". No way they stick their necks out. By fall 2018 red and purple state Democrats will be posing with their rifles in campaign ads.

And what's more, the people saying that something needs to be done will be complicit in Democrats' desire to keep gun control out of the national conversation for a few months, because beating the Republicans is more important than gun control. And then when they win, they'll have fifty other things they want to do that are more important than gun control.

Last edited by adaher; 02-14-2018 at 08:59 PM.
  #6  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:00 PM
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Well, the first step to making things better is actually understanding why gun owners are the way they are.
Because they are paranoid, amoral psychopaths.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:07 PM
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Yeah, that's wrong for the most part. Although it's probably 99% right for people who posses guns ILLEGALLY. I'm all for locking that million or so up and throwing away the key.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:12 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Yeah, that's wrong for the most part. Although it's probably 99% right for people who posses guns ILLEGALLY. I'm all for locking that million or so up and throwing away the key.
Most criminals start out as law abiding. Until one day, they’re not.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:20 PM
adaher adaher is offline
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True, but not particularly relevant to the gun crime issue. There are a ton of illegal firearms owners, and many of them will kill people. Lock 'em up. Harassing law abiding gun owners, on the other hand, yields much poorer results.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:30 PM
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I certainly hope this guy's militia takes time at their next muster to discuss their membership screening processes and to make sure their current members are apprised of their options for mental health treatment. While you never want to see a tragedy like this, you at least hope the militias take it as a learning opportunity. If they're going to protect the security of the State, they need to heed the lessons of their after action reports.
  #11  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:32 PM
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There is no reason to allow people to own high powered rifles or amass private arsenals so that one day their psycho children can go on killing sprees.

18 school shootings around the world in 20 years, 18 school shootings since January in the good old Murica.
  #12  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:32 PM
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True, but not particularly relevant to the gun crime issue. There are a ton of illegal firearms owners, and many of them will kill people. Lock 'em up. Harassing law abiding gun owners, on the other hand, yields much poorer results.
"Harrassing" aside , gun control laws in every other country yield pretty good results, though. Luckily for us, America is unique!
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:32 PM
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"Arm the teachers. Or at least the administrative staff."
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:38 PM
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There's plenty of sand in Florida. Plenty of sand for heads to be buried.

I own guns. I kinda like them. But fuck me, fuck the guns, and fuck all you guys who can't live w/o them. Yes, that's right... fuck you, fuckers.

Yes. I'm disappointed. I'm sad. I'm pissed. I'm going back to bed. A hearty "go to hell" to anyone who has an issue with me. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Fuck it!
  #15  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:39 PM
shunpiker shunpiker is offline
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Oh, in case you missed it. FUCK you and all your goddam guns.
  #16  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:42 PM
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Oh, i may have missed the edit window. That was supposed to be "goddamn."

Speaking of god. Fuck him, too. Why isn't that pussy doing something about this?
  #17  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:52 PM
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Guns are the easy answer, a cop-out. There are other countries with lots of guns, and this doesn't happen. The truth is something far worse: our culture is deeply fucked up, and this is one way it manifests. We're atomized, violent, vengeful, and utterly disconnected from each other and from any sense of community.

Fuck if I know how to fix it.
  #18  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:59 PM
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"Harrassing" aside , gun control laws in every other country yield pretty good results, though. Luckily for us, America is unique!
In terms of reducing gun crime, sure, although that's not the only result people care about.

Since Americans, unlike other peoples, have the right to own guns, you're necessarily going to be limited in how far you can go to limit access.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:00 PM
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Guns are the easy answer, a cop-out. There are other countries with lots of guns, and this doesn't happen. The truth is something far worse: our culture is deeply fucked up, and this is one way it manifests. We're atomized, violent, vengeful, and utterly disconnected from each other and from any sense of community.

Fuck if I know how to fix it.
Nicely put, H.A.. I wish i had the patience or composure to try and make real sense of this issue. I know my responses aren't helping. But I'm curled up in a ball, sobbing in the corner of my dark closet, and want a little relief.

You're right, though. As I've mentioned in other threads, the USA is messed-up because we highlight and celebrate violence, narcissism, and a quick (my words) "fuck you", more than we value any sense of community or civility.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:01 PM
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Guns are the easy answer, a cop-out. There are other countries with lots of guns, and this doesn't happen. The truth is something far worse: our culture is deeply fucked up, and this is one way it manifests. We're atomized, violent, vengeful, and utterly disconnected from each other and from any sense of community.

Fuck if I know how to fix it.
I don't even think there's something wrong with our culture. We're a nation of 300 million people and a few of us are "special" types who want notoriety.

Mass shootings making headlines aside, gun crime keeps on dropping. we are making progress, and we're doing it while liberalizing our gun laws.
  #21  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:03 PM
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Why bother? Everyone will cry and wring their hands for four or five days, then it will drop out of the spotlight thanks in no small part to the worthless, rotten gun filth including the worthless, rotten gun filth on this very Board.
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  #22  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:07 PM
galen ubal galen ubal is offline
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Guns are the easy answer, a cop-out. There are other countries with lots of guns, and this doesn't happen. The truth is something far worse: our culture is deeply fucked up, and this is one way it manifests. We're atomized, violent, vengeful, and utterly disconnected from each other and from any sense of community.

Fuck if I know how to fix it.
Nope. Read through this article, and the stats therein. Overwhelming evidence that the more guns, the more gun deaths. Period.
  #23  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:12 PM
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Amazing how fast and how hard the pro-gun groups have flown into action with anti-democrat, anti-antifas, pro-gun memes and posts.
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  #24  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:15 PM
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Since Americans, unlike other peoples, have the right to own guns, you're necessarily going to be limited in how far you can go to limit access.
For the time being. You are right that the enshrining of a particular kind of weapons ownership as a fundamental constitutional right is the root of the problem, and the problem will not really be successfully addressed until we change that. And that will take a while.

Once we fix that issue, we could still have quite a few people legally owning quite a few guns without it causing severe social problems. As is the case in many other countries where gun ownership isn't considered a fundamental right.

It's the perceptual distortion of a particular kind of weapons ownership into some imagined essential manifestation of patriotic liberty that is at the heart of our society's fuckedupness on this issue.
  #25  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:25 PM
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I don't even think there's something wrong with our culture. We're a nation of 300 million people and a few of us are "special" types who want notoriety.

Mass shootings making headlines aside, gun crime keeps on dropping. we are making progress, and we're doing it while liberalizing our gun laws.
That just means we're making progress in one area but not another. It's not that mass shootings now make headlines. Its that they are happening more and more, with more people being killed. That is the current problem we are discussing.

The question is what we can do about it. As you indicate, the existence of people who want to do these sorts of things seems to be a constant. So what else can we do? Should it not be to keep guns out of the hands of people who want to do it, taking away their ability?

Sure, going after the illegal guns would be a great, and might help. But how do you actually do that? How do you verify that people aren't the legal owners of certain guns? You need gun registration. You need a right to be able to stop and check a gun and see if it is registered.

You may need laws about securing a gun. Maybe even laws that would make you also (partially) guilty of what the gun user did with your gun without securing it. You may need to get rid of concealed carry, so that police can see your gun so they can check it, and get you in trouble if one is hidden on you.

You'd need proper licensing on all guns, with background checks to make sure they can legally own a gun. You'd need inspections to make sure everything is on the up and up.

And all of this is the stuff that the NRA-types fight against. They defund some of the latter programs. They treat gun registration as "gun grabbing." They see concealed carry as a right, and fight background checks all the time. But it's what is necessary to try and prevent just illegal gun ownership.

But, even that isn't the whole problem, now is it? How often do the shooters legally own their guns? Didn't the Vegas shooter own his own guns, for instance? How do we keep guns out of their hands? Some sort of psych evaluation seems the best idea to me. But that also means some people may not pass, and then you get into the whole NRA gun rights crowd again. You're taking away their guns!

I mean, I guess we could also limit where you can carry a gun, to make it where you can stop someone with a gun before they arrive somewhere where they can cause a mass shooting. But that needs tons of resources, too, and still falls afoul of the NRA pro-gun types.

Point is, the only way to do this seems to be to change this whole "gun rights" paradigm. I'm not saying get rid of the Second Amendment. I'm not saying to take away the general citizen's right to "bare arms." But to have reasonable ways to deal with guns, changing the gun rights culture seems the only solution.

Last edited by BigT; 02-14-2018 at 10:26 PM.
  #26  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:25 PM
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Can't wait to hear what President Shithead has to say about this. Anything yet? Or just crickets from the White House?
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:29 PM
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Point is, the only way to do this seems to be to change this whole "gun rights" paradigm. I'm not saying get rid of the Second Amendment.
I am. And I don't even dislike guns or want to stop most law-abiding people from being able to own them. But as you note, the root of the problem is ultimately our nation's gun rights culture. And the root of gun rights culture is the placement of gun ownership in the category of fundamental rights.
  #28  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:44 AM
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‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
  #29  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:53 AM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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"Arm the teachers. Or at least the administrative staff."
No. Hire real live cops. They are trained, teachers aren't.
  #30  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:02 AM
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When the police captured the shooter, were they careful not to spill his magazines or harm his gun?
  #31  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:41 AM
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Pretty sure all the gun owning Patriots need those guns to defend the country when the Russians invade. Or when the government ignores the law of the land. No doubt they will be acting soon.

Last edited by Dag Otto; 02-15-2018 at 01:42 AM.
  #32  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:44 AM
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Why can't we create a new professional, an armed individual trained by the FBI or LEO. His/Her job would be to be on staff at all schools to protect and provide training. And make changes in protocol at the school. It couldn't hurt. And this cat, today knew the school and how to get in, that seems like a problem to me.
The school my kids went to was on lockdown as soon as the bell rang everyday. You didnt get in there unless you checked in and had ID.
There are still holes in that system, there are way too many doors, for one thing. An there are times during the day some kids have the need to go out and crossover to a gym or other.
Because I am a volunteer of some standing I have keys to several doors at the school, I guard them jealously. I am not the only one with keys that is not on staff, I don't pretend they are as careful, I hope they are.
There must be some way to change this story. We have some smart people in this country, why isn't someone actively working on rhis?
  #33  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:48 AM
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Guns are the easy answer, a cop-out. There are other countries with lots of guns, and this doesn't happen. The truth is something far worse: our culture is deeply fucked up, and this is one way it manifests. We're atomized, violent, vengeful, and utterly disconnected from each other and from any sense of community.
I'm not really sure this is a sound argument. If you think about it, what you're saying basically amounts to: guns in the hands of the non-psychopaths who populate other countries don't cause a problem, so there's no reason to take the guns away from we psychopaths.

Ok, I know what you're really saying is -- let's fundamentally improve our society. But it doesn't follow that it might not be a very good idea to take the guns out of that society too. I mean, to some extent the unwillingness to think it's a good idea to try that is a manifestation of how screwed up things are.

Last edited by Riemann; 02-15-2018 at 01:52 AM.
  #34  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:56 AM
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At least now (ever since Sandy Hook) the parents will have the consolation of knowing that their children's sacrifices were completely in vain and that nothing will change. I would not want them to be suffering under the illusion of false hope or wasting their time and energy campaigning for sensible gun laws. Mass murder is legal in the United States and no amount of dead kids will change that.
  #35  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:33 AM
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There's only so much you can warn people. There have been 18 school shooting since January so surely all school pupils and parents must be fully aware that being shot is part of the of educational contract? The stats show this clearly. They knew the risks when they walked through the gates and if they simply can't be bothered to conceal a weapon themselves then they only have themselves to blame when Jordan in the 11th grade flips out.
When you have a couple of thousand hormonal, capricious, unpredictable teenagers lumped together it surely only makes sense to ensure that they all have easy access to deadly weapons, how will they protect themselves otherwise? Better still if they are all allowed to bring them to school, more guns make for a polite and safe campus surely?
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Last edited by Novelty Bobble; 02-15-2018 at 03:34 AM.
  #36  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:53 AM
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As seen on Twitter, by the guy who wrote the Onion's most tragically timeless article;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Roeder
When I wrote this headline, I had no idea it would be applied to the high school a mile from my house.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:54 AM
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There's only so much you can warn people. There have been 18 school shooting since January...
I... what? Seriously?
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:41 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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I... what? Seriously?
apparently yes, I had to double check that to quite take it in myself.

here's one source
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:01 AM
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Jesus. We're in week seven. That's almost 3 per week. It more than weekly, its every other workday!
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:32 AM
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To be fair, the rate of school shootings does drop off sharply during the summer months.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:45 AM
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Not really. Their "We must do something!" means about as much as "thoughts and prayers". No way they stick their necks out. By fall 2018 red and purple state Democrats will be posing with their rifles in campaign ads.
As they say, "I'm a hunter, but I don't need an AR-15 to shoot deer or wild turkey."
Quote:
And what's more, the people saying that something needs to be done will be complicit in Democrats' desire to keep gun control out of the national conversation for a few months
It's not Dems who are always saying it's too soon to politicize the latest gun massacre.

Look, you've got one party that's largely in favor of gun control, but is all too aware of how heavy a lift it is. And you've got another party that's in favor of making it easier for people to get their hands on high-powered weapons of mass slaughter.

So both sides.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:45 AM
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Pretty sure all the gun owning Patriots need those guns to defend the country when the Russians invade.
Have you not seen the documentary "Red Dawn"?
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:03 AM
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School age kids should no longer get an allowance, but rather hazardous duty pay.
  #44  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:08 AM
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I hope the good people over at Colt are proud of the overall efficiency of the AR-15. There is no better gun for killing American children.
  #45  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:09 AM
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Since Americans, unlike other peoples, have the right to own guns, you're necessarily going to be limited in how far you can go to limit access.
That depends. The Second Amendment, rationally interpreted, is a quaint, obsolete, but otherwise harmless provision that should be repealed mainly because it's useless in the 21st century, as it was in the 20th. The much bigger problem is the Heller ruling, wherein Scalia and his fellow wingnuts declared that the "well-regulated militia" preamble -- which is the sole and central reason for the existence of the 2nd amendment -- was just decoration and could be ignored, leading to the conclusion that you state. What it will take to change this in some hopeful future is a gun control challenge that makes it to a more rationally constituted Supreme Court, one with fewer idiot wingnuts on the bench.
  #46  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:11 AM
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The dead schoolchildren should be hailed as heroes who gave their lives so that we could maintain our Second Amendment freedoms.

I'm serious: the Dems in Congress should sponsor legislation giving the wounded and the families of the dead in such incidents the same benefits that soldiers wounded in combat, and the survivors of soldiers killed in combat, receive.

And to make sure it ticks off the right, and makes the news, those killed in such shootings should be eligible for burial in our military cemeteries. They've given their lives for the 'freedoms' that conservatives value more highly than any other, so why the fuck not?
  #47  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:40 AM
Ukulele Ike Ukulele Ike is online now
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wolfpup @45:. Good luck with that. The Republican Senate determined two years ago that Democratic Presidents are no longer allowed to appoint Supreme Court Justices.
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  #48  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:01 AM
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The Republican Senate will not exist in 2021 (or perhaps even 2019). And with the filibuster eliminated for Supreme Court justices, President Duckworth will be able to nominate replacements for (hopefully) Thomas, Roberts, Alito, and Gorsuch. Wishful thinking but it's possible that they retire or die in Democratic administrations.
  #49  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Quoth Ukulele Ike:

‘Scuse me while I go out and buy some more guns, because you just KNOW the libtards are gonna make a whole big deal about this again.
"Libtards" aren't making a whole big deal about it. The people with guns are. This school wasn't a big deal at all two days ago, and now it is, because a guy with a gun made it one.
  #50  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
The dead schoolchildren should be hailed as heroes who gave their lives so that we could maintain our Second Amendment freedoms.

I'm serious: the Dems in Congress should sponsor legislation giving the wounded and the families of the dead in such incidents the same benefits that soldiers wounded in combat, and the survivors of soldiers killed in combat, receive.

And to make sure it ticks off the right, and makes the news, those killed in such shootings should be eligible for burial in our military cemeteries. They've given their lives for the 'freedoms' that conservatives value more highly than any other, so why the fuck not?
This could be a brilliant idea, politically speaking. It'd be awfully hard, politically, to argue against honoring and benefiting survivors and families of school shootings, and arguments against it would be perfect for political attack ads.
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